Target Panic

[Patrick]

#6913

OK, I am SO frustrated right now! I’ve been shooting bows for about 30 years, and I seem to always have to battle it and, right now, it is DRIVING ME CRAZY. I would describe it as a form of anxiety when my aim nears the target. Any others here have to deal with this? If so, how in the hell do you get rid of it?!!!! :evil::evil:

[Hiram]

#56163

Been there, done that, starred in the movie, and got the T-shirt.
Get close to the target and draw to anchor, hold two seconds and let down.
When you are holding relax and make a figure eight on the target.
Train your mind that you can draw, hold, and let down without shooting.
You do not have to shoot!
Stay with this for a couple weeks and only let the shot go every third or forth time.
Use this time to work on your form.
Do not shoot past seven yards for a couple weeks.:)
Fear of missing? I don’t know but, It creeps in on you.

[SteveMcD]

#56175

I struggled with IT. For a couple of years in the past. I hate to say, “go back to the bale” but to a great extent it is true. It’s all about form and confidence. I always use a mantra – “ANCHOR – SETTLE IN – “AIM” – And FOLLOW THRU”.

To me, aiming is acknowledging the sight pictue, “picking the spot”. Anchor means teaching yourself to always acknowledge a solid anchor, Settle In – is really nothing more than settling down – and not rushing the shot, Aim -Pick The Spot, I am also aware of the sight picture, I also know if I am point on, gapping or true instinctive, Follow Thru -nothing moves until the Fletch is in the target – if I don’t do this I will have a tendency to peek over the arrow.

Also – there are two parts to practice – one is FORM and the other is ACCURACY. AND they must be practiced separately. Usually once the form is there – the bow will do the rest.

[William Warren]

#56286

Well said Steve. I find my struggle with this is worse when I put off shooting or don’t shoot regularly. I’ve started over again at ten yards many times but it works. I’m currently having to drop back to 45# from my usual 55# draw. I was having trouble with the 55# bow after neglecting my shooting this summer. Too many projects going on.
Duncan

[Chris Shelton]

#56300

I dont understand this, can someone explain. I dont know if I have it I could. But I dont even understand what it is, I thought it was when you panic when shooting at quarry? But from what you guys were saying, that is not the case.

[Patrick]

#56302

Thanks guys. Hiram, I think you nailed I’m trying it tonight. I’ve tried the other suggestions, and they don’t seem to work for me.

snuffornot wrote: Well said Steve. I find my struggle with this is worse when I put off shooting or don’t shoot regularly.

I’m the opposite. It’s when I shoot alot that it gets worse for me.

[SteveMcD]

#56350

Greentreearcher… if you don’t know what TP is… consider yourself BLESSED. IT is a general term, with the inability to make a good shot, usually caused by some defiency or breakdown in form, further complicated and in many cases caused and made worse by the shooter’s Anxiety. My advise… if you down have it.. this is one case where ignorance really is Bliss.

[Patrick]

#56370

SteveMcD wrote: this is one case where ignorance really is Bliss.

No joke.

If you don’t know if you have it, you don’t. Mine isn’t caused by another issue, it IS the issue. It seriously has caused me to want to just throw in the towel at times and take up drinking as a hobby .

[Jason Wesbrock]

#56421

I developed a raging case of TP several years ago. Long story short: no amount of sure-fire drills had any lasting effects for me—blank bale, dropping draw weight, shooting drills etc. In many cases, instead of fixing existing problems, they created more. One thing I’ve learned throughout the years of fighting TP is that there is no one-size-fits-all cure. What works for one guy may work against someone else. It wasn’t until I started shooting with a clicker that I got a stranglehold on my TP. I should have saved myself a ton of frustration and bought a Crick-It a long time ago. It was probably the best thirteen dollars I ever spent on archery equipment.

[JEVANS]

#56423

It hurts me to say it, but stop shooting for a few days. That has always helped me.

Someone once told me that it takes 21 days to create or break a habit. Maybe keep that in mind when putting these remedies into practice.

[Hiram]

#56491

Yes Jason the clicker is a good fix which can be weaned off of gradually for some. I still have to keep this TP thing at bay by incorporating into my shooting the close up bale work thing every time I have a shooting session. I start my shooting with it and end it with the same draw and hold, let down practice. The Bale should be a part of your habits towards advancing in your shooting. If you have one “poor habit” that you want to eliminate, do it on the Bale and ingrain it without any pressure to concentrate on aiming. The reason for this is so the shot becomes so ingrained that all you have to focus on is aiming while shooting. The bale will make your shot sequence ingrain in your sub-conscious to the point that you can drive the car and talk and listen to radio etc. LOL. I think TP is like a reformed smoker or alcoholic who may have stopped but, has to take the steps to stay free of the habitual behaviours and “bad company” that lets the habit creep back in. In other words, you can stop but it takes maintenance to keep it at bay!:roll:

[Jason Wesbrock]

#56553

Hiram,

Thanks for the reply. I’m very familiar with bale work, and while I find it helpful to isolate form components, it did absolutely nothing for me with respect to fighting TP.

[Hiram]

#56577

OK, It did not work for you but, I think you are the exception and not the rule. All the top shooters use the Bale as part of their training to work on form and control. Larry Yien, Rob Jenkins, Byron Ferguson and on the list goes. The bale builds your form into the sub conscious, which is what we strive for in the shot so aiming is the focus. I suggest that the lack of this may be at the root of your problem with Target Panic and do not realize it. That is why the clicker works well for you, because you shoot the shot sequence consciously.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#56603

Hiram,

I never said bale work wasn’t useful for from and control. What I said was that it didn’t help with my TP. Yes, TP is a control issue, but not all control issues are TP. My beagle is a dog, but not all dogs are beagles. Am I the exception or the rule? I don’t know, but after reading everything I could and talking to dozens of people over the year about TP (including Rod Jenkins) the only rule I’ve found is that there are no “rules.” Everyone’s different, and no one cure is universal.

Yes, Rod Jenkins uses a lot of bale work. He’s also a strong advocate of clickers, but doesn’t use one anymore because they’re not allowed in his shooting class. He still struggles tremendously with TP to this day. I don’t.

I know all about building one’s form and shot sequence into the subconscious. Twenty-five years of competitive shooting more than drilled that into me. Bale work is a great tool, but it’s not the only road leading to Rome. I’m not sure where I posted that my shot sequence is conscious instead of subconscious, but that’s simply not the case, even with a clicker.

The use of a clicker does not preclude one from executing his or her shot subconsciously. As a matter of fact, a conscious release and a clicker go together like Jenny Craig and Colonel Sanders. FITA shooters, with extremely rare exceptions, all use clicker, and you’d be hard pressed to find a successful one who thinks of anything except aiming during their shot sequence.

[Hiram]

#56611

I’ll defer to your authority on this. I am glad you don’t have TP problems anymore.:)

[Patrick]

#56972

JEVANS wrote: It hurts me to say it, but stop shooting for a few days. That has always helped me.

Someone once told me that it takes 21 days to create or break a habit. Maybe keep that in mind when putting these remedies into practice.

:shock::(Unfortunately, I think you’re right. ESPECIALLY unfortunate this time of year!! I’m still hunting though, I just won’t shoot as far.

I definitely need to follow Hiram’s suggestion of acquiring aim on the target, doing the figure eight, then letting down. I know I need to incorporate that into my everyday practice to help keep TP at bay.

I was reluctant to post about my target panic because I was afraid I wasn’t going to convey it properly and cause more frustration by trying to explain what amounts to a feeling. Not one of my strong suits. ESPECIALLY if noone undestood because noone else experienced it. It’s good to know I’m not the only one who suffers or has suffered from it (misery loves company :lol:). Makes it less likely that I’ll follow option #2 (throwing in the towel, and taking up drinking as a hobby).

From the posts I’ve read it does appear that there are different ways it affects people and/or rears its ugly head. TP for me is very much THE problem. It’s not a form issue or anything like that, that then becomes TP. In fact, if form issues occur, it’s usually BECAUSE of the dreaded TP. If it weren’t for TP, I’d be a world class shooter :lol:. Before you think I have a big head, I should also say that if I had wings, I could fly too! 😉

[Hiram]

#57084

Hey Patrick do not believe for minute that this is an insurmountable problem.I would approach this thing with a positive attitude towards a good outcome. I shoot pretty good without a clicker and have used the bale and the confidence exercises I mentioned. I would just not “FIGHT IT” as some have mentioned. Relax and enjoy your recovery exercises and you will come back in time as a better shooter than before. Do not join the Pessimistic attitudes, be positive and enjoy you shooting.:D:D

[Patrick]

#58015

Hiram wrote: Hey Patrick do not believe for minute that this is an insurmountable problem.I would approach this thing with a positive attitude towards a good outcome. I shoot pretty good without a clicker and have used the bale and the confidence exercises I mentioned. I would just not “FIGHT IT” as some have mentioned. Relax and enjoy your recovery exercises and you will come back in time as a better shooter than before. Do not join the Pessimistic attitudes, be positive and enjoy you shooting.:D:D

Thanks Hiram. Serious.

[Daniel]

#58026

Jay Kidwell helped me through this one a couple of years ago the the figure eight is part of my warm up and closing when I shoot. It works !!! 🙂

SB

[Hiram]

#59544

Hey Standingbear, thats who helped me. Jay has a great book on TP but I emailed him. He knows the psychology because he is a Shrink. Great stuff, and one should get the book. I did not need after he so graciuosly helped me for nothing. Google him up for the book.

[Daniel]

#59548

Hiram, all I can say is Amen Brother !!!:wink: Jay took me through all the steps one at a time and at my speed, an awesome and understanding fella.

SB

[Patrick]

#59659

Hiram wrote: Hey Standingbear, thats who helped me. Jay has a great book on TP but I emailed him. He knows the psychology because he is a Shrink. Great stuff, and one should get the book. I did not need after he so graciuosly helped me for nothing. Google him up for the book.

Is this the one?:

http://www.amazon.com/Instinctive-Archery-Insights-Jay-Kidwell/dp/0963971824

[EDIT: changed the link from the mobile amazon.com to the full site version]

[Buckhorn73]

#8195

Hi! Patrick

As Hiram and others have discovered, Dr. Kidwell’s book and advice is a way to cure target panic. I think once you have experienced TP, you always suffer from it and archers and bowhunters everywhere use different methods to come to terms with it. Personally, I have found that the more I concentrate on avoiding the problem the worse I get. Now, I go with it, forget about the anchor, stand close, get a sight picture, hold for a split second near my face and release. This keeps me shooting until the confidence comes back. Whether or not I ever get to a point that a solid anchor is maintained, I don’t worry about it as long as I can hold the sight picture before releasing.

[Patrick]

#8249

Thanks everyone. Another interesting aspect is when I’m experimenting and/or just after changing gear I don’t experience it. I’m sure it’s because my focus then lies elsewhere. BUT, as soon as I get everything squared away…WHAMO! 👿

I’m DEFINITELY going to get that book.

[Danny Klee]

#8622

Yes indeed I would recomend getting a copy of Jay Kidwell’s book. I deals in depth about TP and how to over come it. The ISBN # is 0-9639718-2-4. If you have difficulty finding a copy I would be more than happy to let you borrow my copy. Just let me know.

Dan

[Patrick]

#8699

Danny Klee wrote: Yes indeed I would recomend getting a copy of Jay Kidwell’s book. I deals in depth about TP and how to over come it. The ISBN # is 0-9639718-2-4. If you have difficulty finding a copy I would be more than happy to let you borrow my copy. Just let me know.

Dan

Appreciate it. I’ll keep your offer in mind.

[Hiram]

#8731

Most important thing to know. Rid your mind of the two things at once dilemma. Set yourself up a shot sequence. Stance,grip,hook, draw keeping both shoulders low, anchor, relax and keep pulling, engage back muscles and scapula, aim, pull through the shot, follow through. Never stop pulling and do this on the bale until its sub-conciuos. Then you achieve your goal of this: No consciuos thought of the the shot happening. You only aim. The shot runs itself. Your mind does not have to aim and release consciuosly. No conflicts occurr in the mind that you have to say, OK, I,m aiming and now I think I will release. No, only aiming. Its simple, just run your sequence on the bale till its ingrained, then the shot will run itself on auto mode and all you have to do is aim. Never stop pulling! Back tension surprise release is “Enlightment” and will make you a killer shot.No dead releases! Dynamic back tension!

[bruc]

#8765

Patrick wrote: OK, I am SO frustrated right now! I’ve been shooting bows for about 30 years, and I seem to always have to battle it and, right now, it is DRIVING ME CRAZY. I would describe it as a form of anxiety when my aim nears the target. Any others here have to deal with this? If so, how in the hell do you get rid of it?!!!! :evil::evil:

signed,

Goin’ Crazy in Michigan…and it’s a very short drive.

I’m the new kid on the block. 57 year young. I’ve dealt with the same issue for years to the point where I went back to a compound with sights. I’ve been reborn and have devised a system where I pick a spot 12′ – 18′ below my target, come to FULL draw on this spot, complete with back tension and everything as it should be and move up slowly to where I want the arrow to hit. When my eye finds the target I release.

Works for me and I hope it works for you!!

[bruc]

#8859

BRUC wrote: [quote=Patrick]OK, I am SO frustrated right now! I’ve been shooting bows for about 30 years, and I seem to always have to battle it and, right now, it is DRIVING ME CRAZY. I would describe it as a form of anxiety when my aim nears the target. Any others here have to deal with this? If so, how in the hell do you get rid of it?!!!! :evil::evil:

signed,

Goin’ Crazy in Michigan…and it’s a very short drive.

I meant 12 to 18 inches not feet. Sorry.
I’m the new kid on the block. 57 year young. I’ve dealt with the same issue for years to the point where I went back to a compound with sights. I’ve been reborn and have devised a system where I pick a spot 12′ – 18′ below my target, come to FULL draw on this spot, complete with back tension and everything as it should be and move up slowly to where I want the arrow to hit. When my eye finds the target I release.

Works for me and I hope it works for you!!

[Rocks]

#8983

Hiram wrote: Been there, done that, starred in the movie, and got the T-shirt.
Get close to the target and draw to anchor, hold two seconds and let down.
When you are holding relax and make a figure eight on the target.
Train your mind that you can draw, hold, and let down without shooting.
You do not have to shoot!
Stay with this for a couple weeks and only let the shot go every third or forth time.
Use this time to work on your form.
Do not shoot past seven yards for a couple weeks.:)
Fear of missing? I don’t know but, It creeps in on you.

Just wondering about the figure eight… why? which way.. down over and up or up over etc, never heard of this before…

[Hiram]

#9118

Rock, heres what you do. Get close to the target like 3 yds. Draw the Bow not trying to aim, just work on your form sequence. If you do not have a sequence, form one and stick to it. Here is a simple sequence, stance,grip,fingers hook the string, draw, seat into anchor, relax and maintain pulling while in the “Balanced pulling” area of anchor. Now pull through the shot with your back muscles and follow through. Do not try to aim for a few days, just develop your shot sequence and talk yourself through it until you have it memorized. You can shoot (only at three to seven yards)during this initial phase but if you screw up do not let it upset you. Archery is one arrow at a time and each shot is a new one. Now for the second phase (a week later or so) You have your sequence down at this point, Ok you may start aiming. The most important thing I could stress for you to incorporate into this training back (rid yourself of bad habits which lead to TP) to good shooting accuracy is that you learn to not aim while drawing. Thats why you can shoot the compound and not the stick, you are aiming while you draw and the brain is saying “shoot now” but there is a problem with this, You have not reached anchor or you are at anchor and have not started the back tension (expansion) into the shot. Big problem! Do not aim until you have arrived at that point in your shot sequence. OK, STANCE,GRIP,HOOK,DRAW.ANCHOR.ENGAGE BACK MUSCLES,AIM.EXPAND,and follow through. Now you see why you are having trouble with plucking and releasing too fast. You have not followed the sequence. Now that you are following the proper sequence, you can start aiming only when you arrive at its chronological order in the sequence! Guess what? Thats why a clicker works! It will not let you shoot until you are in the expansion phase of the sequence! Thats why you develop a sequence and stick with it until it becomes ingrained into the sub-consciuos mind. Thats why you use the bale, to re-program your brain. Ok, SO NOW YOU HAVE NO DOUBLE MINDEDNESS causing you to want to shoot pre-maturely. OK, no double mind? you can now just concentrate on AIMING when it arrives in the sequence. Yes I said again, let it sink in! Back to step two. You are still close to the bale and still working on this thing going through your new sequence and new world of shooting. You may now aim, but not shoot until you have arrived at that part of the sequence. You move the arrow in a figure eight on the target, NOW LET DOWN! This will teach you immense control. You will yearn to shoot, but do not. Now incorporate this exercise into your shooting before and after every session. You may do this more than once if want more control. This will be a little challenging the first few times you do it but, will get easier to the point of total control if you stick with the sequence. Why does this work? Well because of course it shows that you are “Improving” and will train the mind that”YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHOOT!” You do not shoot this way any longer because the sequence runs the shot and you have not finished the back muscles expanding into the shot, therefore you will not shoot because “You” have choosen not to run the sequence to finality. Now if you have a bad day do not give in and just back up and start shooting. Start over and do it right, discipline is what it takes to be a good archery shot! You must relax but, you must stay with the practice regiman. Remember, STOP AIMING as you draw the Bow, wait till it arrives in your sequence. then aim and expand into the shot. You do this, and you will get deadly with a Bow and gain back (retrain your mind) or begin to come out of this dreaded thing which is a culmination of bad habits that initiated your double-minded way of shooting. The sequence will permanantly keep itself programed if you do this execise the rest of your archery days! Yes, no matter how well you overcome these bad habits you must continue this routine. Now go beat it!:):):)

[Hiram]

#9144

One thing I forgot to mention. It is very important that you do not associate the release as the last thing you do! The release is only part of the sequence that leads to your hand recoiling a certain distance back and away from the face after the shot HAPPENS, and I say happens because it should be sub-consciuos after the sequence is imbedded in your mind. That is why you can now add aiming into your sequence, because that is what your primary focus will be after you have reached ‘PROPER FORM” through the use of the bale. Yes you will be able to work on your form consciuosly once you have gained the sequencial control of the shot. I would recomend that you establish the finality of the shot with the arrow hitting the target. The finality of the release with the release hand touching a point of the shoulder or neck, or just the position of the hand after it stops in the recoil of the shot. Which remember that the release hand will always recoil a distance reward if you are using back tension. Yes this distance may different with higher or lower poundage Bows being shot by the same Archer. I did not incorporate release in the sequence because it should “just happen” during expansion. The fingers should just let go during the expansion of the back muscles and be somewhat like picking up a a bucket by the bail and just dropping it by releasing the fingers. Part of the pull of the Bow string will allow the fingers to have the rolling off the string effect, but not to a great degree. Think of the drawing hand as a hook which is being pulled back by a pulley and rope system and relax the back of the hand as you are drawing the Bow. A tense drawing hand will cause you problems as you let go of the string and also contort the Bow string causing un-equal pressure which leads to sore fingers and string oscillations beyond that of a relaxed hand. More contorted string leads to exageratted paradox which leads to more tuning problems and bigger arrow groups.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#9433

Rocks wrote: Just wondering about the figure eight… why? which way.. down over and up or up over etc, never heard of this before…

If I recall correctly from Jay’s book, the reason for the figure eight is to ingrain into your mind that you don’t have to release as soon as your aim reaches the target. By repeatedly getting on and off target from different directions, you gain control over that situation. It’s the same theory behind the “draw-anchor-aim-let down” drill. This is very effective for some people, but not for everyone (myself for example).

The thing about target panic is that it’s not the same for everyone, so there’s no one-size-fits-all cure. Target panic is somewhat like automobile problems. If you simply scratch your paint, you can call a body shop and they can tell you how to fix it; get some touch up paint and buffing compound—very cut and dry.

But if you turn your key and your car won’t start, the diagnosis isn’t so automatic. You may need a new ignition switch, battery, alternator, or starter. You may have even seized your engine entirely. Telling someone that such-n-such will definitely cure his target panic is a bit like telling a person that his car will start if he replaces the battery. If the battery is the problem, replacing it will work. But if his starter is fried, he can replace his battery a hundred times and his car still isn’t going to start.

If we could crack open our skulls and poke around in our brains like we do automobile engines, target panic would be easy to fix. Unfortunately we don’t have that luxury, so we have to fix things like target panic through trial and error. Bottom line: find a “cure” and give it an honest try. If it doesn’t work for you, find another remedy and see if it yields sufficient results. Keep trying different ideas and hopefully you’ll find something that will take care of the problem.

[Hiram]

#9488

Hey Jason got any ideas you could add? You said that you did not have TP anymore in an earlier post. Is that because you use a clicker exclusively, or is it because you found something that has not been discussed?

[Jason Wesbrock]

#9593

Hiram,

I don’t exclusively use a clicker in the traditional sense. Yes, the overwhelming percentage of my practice involves allowing the clicker to trigger my release—what Jay Kidwell would call a conditioned response. Clickers are to finger shooters what back tension releases are to release shooters, which is probably a discussion for another venue.

Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable giving up split second control over the timing of my release in bowhunting situations. Static targets allow us a long window of timing for releasing the arrow; animals generally don’t.

For that reason, I don’t allow the clicker to trigger my release when I’m bowhunting. The clicker is still on my bow limb (call it my security blanket J), but if I use it at all when shooting an animal, it’s simply a draw check. To be honest, I don’t even have a clicker on my longbow; only my recurves. Shooting with a clicker gives me the control to shoot without one, which is where bowhunting comes into play.

Just as a point of clarity, I never said I don’t have TP anymore. To be honest, I think the term “cure” as it relates to TP is a bit misleading. I’ve read a lot of material on the subject from top archery coaches, and all of them say a person can’t really cure TP, per se, but merely control it. That’s probably why Jay Kidwell stresses the long-term use of his drills for controlling TP—if a person thinks he’s cured and stops working to control it, TP will likely creep back.

And that’s exactly what a clicker does for me (as it has done for others) that various shooting drills and blank bale didn’t. It allows me to control my TP. It allows me the control to shoot without it, especially while bowhunting.

[Patrick]

#14201

I went to Jay’s Sporting Goods today and was shocked, NOT panicked! :-), to find the above referenced book, so I bought it. Thumbing through the Table of Contents I find it is EXACTLY what I need. Thanks for the recommendation.

[Patrick]

#14214

What an awesome book! I’m already a little over half way through it.

Now I just need to get my son to stop laughing at me. He apparently thinks having target panic equates to being afraid of the target.

[Daniel]

#15218

Patrick, I remember having trouble drawing a low weight recurve…..28 lbs to be exact and reaching my anchor point and holding for more than three seconds. My wife found that hilarious and I know she was amazed at how I could draw and hold a 72 lbs recurve and holding it at my anchor point for quite a long time ( Without an arrow on the bow ). The moment I put an arrow, watch out, there was nothing I could do to pull it back, and when I did, good bye arrow, 4 feet over the target.

Mr. Kidwell was really instrumental in helping me through every step, while being so positive and patient. Today, I am thankful and so ever greatful.

SB

[Patrick]

#16342

I finished reading it last night. I wish I could’ve read it 20 years ago! What a great book. Not just because of the target panic section. As far as I’m concerned, it should be mandatory reading (self imposed, of course) for anyone wanting to shoot a bow and/or anyone teaching others to shoot. Part of the reason I initially bought a compound for my son is I didn’t feel confident or comfortable teaching him how to shoot a longbow. That book has prepared me, and now I have the confidence to do so.

(The last sentence is taken from the book. Read it and you’ll see what I mean 😉 )

[Bert]

#18882

To TP or not TP-that is the question! Great advice Hiram on target panic- going to have to get Kidwell’s book ASAP though I,thank God, don’t personally suffer from what sounds like something worse than leprosy.
I use a hefty trash stuffed with visqueen atop my bale, stand an arrow length or so away, then work on Hiram’s sequence WITH EYES CLOSED-NO AIMING. Another item is to work on your breathing like rifle shooting, either halfway exhale or complete exhale, then take the shot.
I think another problem with target panic is, though it may sound silly, is the lack of FUN, just the pure enjoyment of the draw, the release and the exiting whir of watching the spinning fletches and shaft as the arrow speeds towards the target- selected and directed by you, your body and mind in harmony as you “step into the bow”. Do we worry about the result too much over the process?
Recently, I found a huge open field near the river a short drive from the house. Max range at the domicile is 25yds- over 500 at the field with short mowed grass and soft earth. Haven’t shot the 50# longbow for distance so I guesstimated 45 degrees, rared back and let rip an EFOC 2018 3 5″ parabolic left-wing helical with a 200 gr. fieldpoint into the sky. Way, way up she flew in a swirl of white feathers to plummet vertically 180 long paces away, clout distance and you could pretend for a moment that you were an English longbowman at Agincourt, Poitiers or Crecy sending those clothyard, gray goose winged, bodkin-pointed shafts of death into the massed ranks of French calvary!
“Avaunces et arches bien”- Advance and shoot well- thanks Hiram, Patrick , StandingBear and others for sharing your problems and advice- Too bad we’re all not like Greattreearcher-” What’s TP?-ah, Youth!
Bert

[LimbLover]

#19948

This is going to sound kind of corny…but have you ever seen that movie “For the Love of the Game” with Kevin Costner?

Its a baseball movie about a Tigers pitcher so I assume you probably have seen it Patrick. lol

For those who haven’t, Costner is a veteran pitcher who is pitching a no hitter and reflects on his career and relationship up to that point as he does it.

As he is pitching the no-hitter he always says “Clear the Mechanism” and everything: noise, thoughts, etc fades away when he says it and he focuses on the mitt.

I say that in my head before I draw and it works every time. As a newbie I had a real hard time with target panic and hitting my anchor. This absolutely helps me.

[Patrick]

#20039

That’s not corny at all! If that works for you that is AWESOME! (yep, I sure have seen it:wink: )

[Bert]

#20765

Patrick and others suffering from TP- the ED of archery!
There is a drastic solution given in the Apr/May 2009 “Traditional Bowhunter”- page 44- “When Left is Right” by John Vargo.
It’s “easy”, just sell all your right-handed bow(s) and get a lightweight left-hander- start all over building the shot sequence ala Hiram”s excellent advice.
The hard part is explaining to your significant other the reason why you need to spend a few hundred(thousands) of bucks for new equipment!
Sometimes it just makes you want to fall on your BH- doesn”t it?
Persevere and Good Hunting!- Bert

[Patrick]

#50368

Bert wrote: TP- the ED of archery!

😆

Just a follow up:
I still have to deal with target panic, but it is now manageable, and I’m slowly ridding myself of it more and more as time goes by. Jay Kidwell’s book was definitely the medicine I needed. I HIGHLY recommend it!

Switching from right to left handed, just as so many changes I have made over many years, will only delay the inevitable. Just as Jay Kidwell says, it’s just clasical conditioning. What I’ve been doing is randomly picking a number, and deciding to release or let down. I draw, then hold on target until I count to that number. Once I get there I either release, or let down. It truly is a mind game, and I’m finally starting to take back control of mine! 😆

Thanks for all your help. Seriously…if you guys didn’t give me any advise, I may very well have quite shooting!

[Bloodless]

#50501

Well Patrick, good on you for going back and resurrecting the oldie but goodie topics. I’ve never had target panic on targets and can’t even comprehend it, though I know it’s very real for some if not many archers. Maybe that’s because I’ve tried never to over-bow, so can be a bit relaxed at full draw. I consciously anchor, and momentarily register that ancher, before releasing. A related “trick” that may help some of our panicked brothers and sisters is to purposely aim to be off target, left or right a week bit, as you reach full draw. The split-second it takes to bring your arrow tip a bit left or right is all it takes to forbid panic. Now, if I could only remember to “pick a spot” when drawing down on live game, that’s when I “panic” though I feel fully in control. Maybe that’s why I’m so often — Bloodless

[Jason Wesbrock]

#50717

Patrick wrote: [quote=Bert]TP- the ED of archery!

What I’ve been doing is randomly picking a number, and deciding to release or let down. I draw, then hold on target until I count to that number. Once I get there I either release, or let down. It truly is a mind game, and I’m finally starting to take back control of mine! 😆

When I first started fighting TP, I did the same drill but I used a set of dice. Roll the dice, and hold for that number of seconds.

[Patrick]

#51354

I’m buying some dice!

[bruc]

#51371

I’ve just read the whole thread.Hiram said to not aim until the draw is complete with back tension. Patrick picks a number. Wondering if the aiming happens before or as you are counting?
I’m assuming that a lot of archers are holding at full draw to aim before they release when shooting. I’m AFFLICTED and haven’t shot much lately. Want to have some plan in place before I start.
Bruce.

[Patrick]

#51388

BRUC wrote: I’m AFFLICTED and haven’t shot much lately. Want to have some plan in place before I start.

It affects each of us differently. The only thing I know for sure is that you MUST read Jay Kidwell’s book. It’s a quick read. I can not emphasize enough how great that book is!
Target panic is caused by classical conditioning. Nothing more nothing less. Not from being over-bowed, under-bowed, fearful of missing, faulty concentration, etcetera. Again, it is ONLY caused by classical conditioning.

Oops: BRUC, I missed your question. I don’t start counting until I’m on target. What this does is literally deprogram your subconscious from associating nearing the target (or being on target) from the requirement to shoot. Those that have never experienced it must think this sounds crazy! 😆

[Hiram]

#53143

Sticking to a good shot sequence is the foundation. 🙂

[Patrick]

#30976

Jason Wesbrock wrote an excellent article in the Aug/Sep 2010 TBM (Yes…I can see into the future 😉 ) titled “Just A Click Away”. It addresses his encounter with target panic.

[Hiram]

#31111

Jason is not only is an accomplished Hunter,Archer,he is a good writer too! Will have to read it for sure.

[USMC 82-86]

#31156

I would ask is it target panic? Are we caught up in seeing only the whole picture ( The whole animal, antlers, fear of missing ) all of these play in taking the shot. We all practice and come time to loose the arrow, some will doubt all that they know. You have to realize that adrenaline plays a big part here we practice all the time in front of a target that is not moving, we are in perfect position to take the shot, and our breathing is normal. When we would practice marksmanship in the corps we would at times run from station to station to simulate the breathing increase we experience when adrenaline is dumped into our system. Remember fight or flight it is real and if you don’t practice for it when the fight comes panic takes over. Stop, take a breath focus on a spot and send it, you have done it a thousand times trust it let it happen your body knows what to do let it do its job. It also never hurts to try and setup in a spot for the best shot for you and your abilities. I would never let someone in my squad take a shot he’s never made before.

[Patrick]

#31212

Yes, it’s target panic.

[SteveMcD]

#31216

I have not read Jason’s article yet although I know it will be great. Hiram & Marine.. I like what you guys have said. I suffered from target panic several years ago after shooting (or trying to) shoot competitively in NFAA league. It was awful. My doubt and lack of confidence crept in, and took over. I found out a couple of things… 1) almost 90% of my practice now is dedicated to form. It is so automatic now that 2) when shooting for accuracy I just focus on making the shot and don’t even think (worry) about what I am doing, it is all in learned memory. Shooting at an animal has never been a problem for me, I lose it after the shot and have to calm down at that point, Guess I am very lucky in that aspect.

[Konrad]

#31380

A technique that works very well is to get VERY close to the target, close your eyes, draw, and focus on your anchor point and posture (skeletal form) and release when set.

If you do this about ten times at the beginning of your practice session, you will soon learn what it feels like to be at full draw and relaxed during the release. Remembering that feeling and posture with your eyes open will greatly aid in boosting your confidence level. That, I believe is the root of target panic. It is the fear that you won’t be on target long enough to properly aim and release.

Building muscular strength (weight training) also aids in combating this dreaded disease.

I too have the tee shirt. In fact I have the entire rainbow of colors (one for every day) and a bumper sticker. My wife asked if I would like a coffee cup but I had to draw the line somewhere.

Get strong and relax.

[Hiram]

#31513

SteveMcD wrote: I have not read Jason’s article yet although I know it will be great. Hiram & Marine.. I like what you guys have said. I suffered from target panic several years ago after shooting (or trying to) shoot competitively in NFAA league. It was awful. My doubt and lack of confidence crept in, and took over. I found out a couple of things… 1) almost 90% of my practice now is dedicated to form. It is so automatic now that 2) when shooting for accuracy I just focus on making the shot and don’t even think (worry) about what I am doing, it is all in learned memory. Shooting at an animal has never been a problem for me, I lose it after the shot and have to calm down at that point, Guess I am very lucky in that aspect.

Me too Steve, at least 90%!

[LimbLover]

#31760

I only really suffered with TP when I first started shooting. Part of it was because I was overbowed and didn’t know it.

What helped me the most was shooting at balloons mounted on an old shaft rotating on a record player. It is an easy rig to build and works awesome.

The balloons rotate, you pick one, draw, hold, and loose.

This totally cured me early on. I’ve never had trouble since. I find myself slipping sometimes if I’m having a BAD shooting day.

If this happens…I go to the bale, pick one thing to work on mechanically, i.e. the feeling in my back, finger to my mouth, hook behind the jaw, bow arm, etc. Whatever I feel I could work on.

Works every time for me because ultimately the target I’m aiming at is no longer dictating how I am shooting. I’m in another place and out of my head.

[Hiram]

#32170

“the feeling in my back,”

I have my sequence burned into my shooting to the point that: I only think about my back muscles and the rhomboid tension and engagement in my back. When I am shooting the best, my sequence just happens, and the only conscious thought is my back muscle reference, and refining my aim. This comes with hours of Bale work, and attention to developing your sequence. Yes, I can shoot 2 inch groups at 20 yards most of the time but, this is in my yard under perfect circumstances. That is why it is so important to train in conditions besides target shooting.Course, that it another subject.:)

[Stephen Graf]

#32797

Hiram wrote: Yes, I can shoot 2 inch groups at 20 yards most of the time

Salooot! That is quite the boast. And my hat is off to you!

I have some data which plays to this subject. I can’t reveal the source of the data as it is confidential. (confidential data on shooting bows and arrows?, yes amazingly enough)

But if you believe me, then you might find it interesting: of 40 people shooting at a six inch circle (with a 2 inch dot in the middle), only 5 hit the circle at least 8 of 10 shots. And the best scores (4 of the 5 getting 8 hits) were 2 of those 8 in the 2 inch dot. These 40 people included a few top national shooters. The distance was 15 yds.

[Hiram]

#33220

As I said Steve, in my yard, under perfect circumstances. I do not state it as a boast! Stated as what can be accomplished by using an aiming method, utilizing correct form which emphasizes the use of an upright stance, vertically held Bow, and a pull through release. Now, put me in amongst a bunch of top shooters in a competitive setting or in the woods in varied shooting positions, I suspect that I may not carry that average.:)

[Patrick]

#19831

I just picked up a copy of the “Ironmind Archery Systems DVD: Target Panic and Shot Control Clinic”, and it’s great. He truly understands the root of the problem. Interestingly, I now understand why I don’t have a problem when shooting firearms. 💡

[Etter1]

#19900

It is my life. Im going to try to get a hold of it after hunting season. Still can shoot fine, especially in a hunting situation but its unbelievably frustrating and Im exhausted with it.

[Patrick]

#19904

Oh how I can relate. I even completely stopped shooting for quite a while because I was getting so frustrated. You are right on the money when you say it’s exhausting. It really is!

[Author]

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