Straight ends vs reflex/deflex

[Danny Klee]

#6451

In my absence I may have missed any engagement in any possible debate between straight end long bows vs reflex/deflex long bows. Does anyone have any scientific opinions regarding the two? I personally enjoy the straight end long bows but I am not quite familiar with the reflex/deflex design. Thanks fellas and ladies.

Dan

[Ripforce]

#51997

I own three straight limbed longbows and am going to shoot some R/D longbows at K-zoo this weekend! I have shot a a predator longbow that was Reflex/Deflex and found it to be a little more like a recurve bow this one had a more of a pistol type grip! LimbLover has a new R/D Bama Expediton longbow that I will soon get to try out! He may have an opine on the matter as he has 2 straight limbed Bama longbows also!

[Kegan]

#57856

From a building standpoint…

The straight bow stores less energy. Depending on the length and whether it has reflex, is dead straight, or has deflex, this might not mean that much. Depending on the tiller and tip width, the efficiency can be very close. A straight bow with very light, narrow, stiff tips will shoot without much hand shock and with impressive speed. Most straight bows are tillered to bend all the way to the nock, which robs it of efficiency, and also are too wide. This extra mass adds shock and slows the arrow. However, slight design differences can make a straight bow shoot exceptionally well. Case in point, there are bamboo laminated wooden bows that are designd to take advantage of the “lever tip” design shooting almost as well as fiberglass laminated recurves. However, the don’t look like the “traditional” Hill bow and most fiberglass laminated straight bows don’t take advantage of those characteristics.

D/R bows, or hybrids, are as different as can be. Some bows with only a mild curve to the limbs, like the Bear Montanna, shoot more like a straight bow than a D/R bow. Ones with radical curves, like my Gray Wolf bows, have performance like recurves in a longbow-styled package. The reflex in the limbs store extra energy, more than a straight bow. The deflex means the limbs recover outward rather than just forward, and at the same time recesses the mid-limb, which means there is less mass trying to jump forward of the handle when the string slams home to brace height. All of the deflex works toward reducing hand shock which can help with accuracy all things being equal. Because there is no contact to the reflexed outer limbs, they can be made more narrow than a recurve, and therefore have some of the same low-mass recovery benefits to the “lever tip” straight bows. However, a D/R bow cannot be made as narrow as a straight bow because the limbs would want to twist to the sides. Fortunately, the reflex itself stiffens the outer limbs some what (again, depending on the particular bow) which allows the limbs to work as levers increasing the mechanical efficiency (reducing hand shock and adding arrow speed). In all-wood bows, especially selfbows, these bows have more mass than even recurves and shine with heavier arrows, but may not be as advantageous. With fiberglass, the difference can be night and day depending on how much D/R.

Whether the bow is shot like a recurve or true longbow is more a matter of the handle design. I use narrow, low grip handles which allow the archer to shoot them just like a longbow, with recurve performance. Often all of the stability factors are removed when shortenning the bow significantly. At equal lengths I find the D/R or hybrid bow to be much more stable, however a long straight bow will be just as stable, and in many cases more so, than a short hybrid. In some cases the bows are so short that they store less energy (stack) and the performance is closer to a long straight bow.

[LimbLover]

#59801

Kegan summed it up nicely.

[Roger J Bryan]

#153732

I’ll be getting a Byron Ferguson Safari, which has a mild reflex riser & mild reflexes limbs , in a 66” or 68 “ length, depending on my draw length. My reach is 77 “ which divided by 2.5 is a 30.8 inch draw.  I’ll also use the other method to determine draw length which is extending both hands together in front of me as far as I can with palms and fingers touching. My shoulders roll forward a little when I do this and I get 30.75 inches. I’m not sure if my shoulders are supposed to stay square or if rolling them forward for maximum extension is correct. What do you think about the BF Safari design, the bow itself, and best way to determine draw length? Thanks.  New to traditional archery here. Jeff

[Raymond Coffman]

#153743

Hi Roger

Welcome to the forums….

The Ferguson longbow is an excellent bow. The ones I am familiar with have been pretty much what I would call, a standard American longbow style. A true traditional choice.

There are a lot of ways to do this ( draw length) and if you are ordering a bow -ask the Bowyer how he wants it done, this is the best way—as you will both be speaking the same language….

My preferred method of determining draw length for me ( it also helps with, where your arrow length should end up) is as follows ;

Take a piece of hard paper/ light cardboard push the shaft thru it and leave it about half way down the shaft so when you place the arrow on the bow the cardboard is forward of the window. Draw the bow to your anchor a couple times – the cardboard stops at your draw length, ( measured from there to nock groove). Or draw the bow and have a partner mark the arrow with a felt tip pen.  This works with all styles of bows….(Another (older) version measures the arrow at the front/belly of the bows window( part closest to your eye) obviously depending on grip/ riser depth this can give you different readings. For arrow length you have to add a couple inches For riser depth)

Yea ,haha, I now trad is supposed to be simple, it is, once you figure out what works best for you

Scout aka Ray

[richard roop]

#153745

Glad to know that it’s going to get simple ’cause so far the more I learn the more I realize how much more I have to learn.           Latest project; If ‘point on’ is 55 yards, a cresting line around the shaft about 5 inches back from the point should be a reference for 100 yards ………….. eh ???  (Got that idea from an ad in the Dec. / Jan. 1999 Trad Bow issue.)  Much to do.

Random thoughts on bows;                                                                                                                                                                                    EVERYTHING is a trade-off………………. You want speed, expect noise and hand shock. You want stable, you’re going to sacrifice a bit of speed. Etc. etc. etc. ………..                                                                                                                                                          A bow that I think is awesome may very well be considered so-so by someone else.  AND WE WOULD BOTH BE RIGHT !!!      So ……………… best advice I can give; Find a bowyer who’s style you like and pick a bow with ‘panache’ that meets your wants.                               Then shoot the heck out of it !!!!

[Raymond Coffman]

#153780

Well said Richard…..

Sling those arrows everyone

Scout aka Ray

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