Home › Forums › Campfire Forum › Starting point
-
AuthorPosts
-
-
Congrats on the gorgeous bow, amigo. I’ve had four of Gregg’s bows now, including one recurve, and currently (of course!) an Elkheart. While all shoot carbons and woods beautifully (no recycled beer cans for me), they seem to really like woods, especially the fat 23/64s I’ve been forced to go to in order to get the light weight shafts (for FOC) with spine enough to handle the 300 Tuffheads. (Could have to do with the degree of center cut, but I really have no idea.) My current setup is a 52# bow with 85 spine Sitka spruce arrows cut to 29.5″. Your bow is a touch lighter (though it could be a tad faster anyhow) and you want 225 rather than 300, so I’d say your opening guess is about right. If possible, get your chosen shafts in 65, 70, and 75 spine at your preferred length and go from there. More and more arrow makers and shaft suppliers are willing to sell such test kits. You didn’t say anything about variety of wood. If you want max FOC, Sitka offers the lightest wood with the highest spine. If you want more weight and don’t care about FOC so much, and want more slender shafts for the spine, some of the most gorgeous arrow woods I’ve ever seen are made by Kevin Forrester, a member here http://www.forresterwoodshafts.com. Check out his website. Among his offerings are innovative designs where the shaft is slender, down to 5/16, but the front section is 23/64 for a better fit with most broadheads, including the 225 Tuffies, with a slow almost invisible taper that comes off the bow shelf smoothly and should considerably strengthen the weak spot just behind the head. I hope that helps.
-
I am shooting a 53 @28 Whip and using Sitka Spruce shafts with 225gr Tuffheads. The shafts are from Hildebrand and are 70-74 spine tapered shafts. I tried the 80-85 spines and a full length shaft proved to be about right but anything shorter was too stiff more me. I shoot 3 under and draw just a hair over 28″. When I got the 80-85’s I made the “learning guy” mistake of immediately cutting them down before shooting a full length shaft. I worked my way through the dozen shafts a few at a time and each length from 29″ up to 32″(full length) went from WAY TOO stiff, to a bit too stiff, to barely too stiff to okay. I was looking for an arrow about 29″ BOP length and the 70-74’s proved to be just right. Talk to Neil Hildebrand (Hildebrand Arrow Shafts) and he should be able to give you not only an education on woods but provide you with some good shooting shafts. I put a light coat or two of stain to bring out the grain, then 3 coats of Wipe on Polyeurathane and the shafts are almost too pretty to shoot. But once you shoot one, it’s hard to NOT shoot ’em!
Best of luck!
-
The spine chart (like the one on 3Rivers: http://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdf ) are a good place to START. Also, you can try your hand at their Spine Calc: http://www.3riversarchery.com/spinecalculator.asp . You can play wih the numbers and see what you get. (Same thing available other places, this is just the one I happen to use.) I am looking at getting a set of 23/64″ douglas firs (heavier wood) and making myself a set of arrows for September. I already have the 300 gr Tuffheads and [soon] a Helms Deep that pulls 62[ish]# @ 28″. I plan on having a 29″-29.5″ arrow (BOP-TON). According to my best guestimate in using these tools, I will need a 120# spine. That’s about double my bow’s draw, but it is what works on paper. That being said, I may get it and not have any luck, whereas an 80# set will shoot perfectly. Some times real life and paper just don’t go along with one another. And unless you are making pictures of yourself out in the field, you know which one is more important. I would also totally agree with Dave (go figure 😛 ) in getting a test kit. You might throw away a few bucks, but will save a whole bunch in the longrun. Hope this helps. be well.
Alex
😉
-
Alex – Most spine charts, including 3Rivers, won’t work for guys like STex and me because point weights only go up to 190-200 grains on the charts, while we shoot much heavier heads. It would be nice if our trad suppliers, at least, updated the charts to include the heavier point weights rapidly gaining popularity today.
Your setup: With that 62# bow and heavy arrows and that broadhead, you should have a serious killing combo, worthy of anything in N. America.
-
Dave,
Couldn’t agree more. The chart is for the most “popular” sizes. The “calculator” lets you put in some numbers of your own but, as you said, there is no substitute to having a “test set” and finding what works for you and your bow in REAL LIFE. I have also found another issue with finding practice glue-on field points in the heavier weights. I don’t want to dull my Tuffheads on broadhead targets (especially since I tend to miss quite a bit 😳 ), but it is very hard to find 300 gr field points. If anyone has suggestions, they would be very much appreciated. Otherwise, I am getting some DF shafts, Thunderbird poly-sealer and I’ll be putting together what I hope will put some meat in the freezer this fall. Only time (and lots of practice) will tell. Be well.
Alex
😀
-
lyagooshka wrote: but it is very hard to find 300 gr field points. If anyone has suggestions, they would be very much appreciated.
Alex – you can get heavy weight field points up to 300gr. on 3Rivers.
-
You can also get them from Tuffhead directly … big brass artillery shell heads that fit on a shaft precisely like the broadheads and look like brass but seem indestructible, for both 225 and 300. Joe now also has hex blunts, my favorite. I don’t know about the new 190 Meathead size but that weight field point is easy to find.
-
I have used calculators and such but have had no luck….the setup it recommends never flys well for me. I have found a weaker shaft is better for my shooting style. I get them to group and fly well and they are nearly bullet holes through paper. Going to shoot them into road kill at work to ensure penetration is what it needs to be. Good luck with the woods, I want to go down that road soon!
-
Calculators shmalculators. Numbers don’t take into account inherent differences in release, grip, follow through, etc. They might be okay for measuring grain weight and dynamic spine of finished arrows but nothing beats putting the wood to the test and letting IT TELL YOU what works best for YOU and your bow. The 225 gr. brass field points are good but I have lost a few in range targets because of the slight diameter differences in point and shaft. Okay, I might need to perfect my glue bonds a bit but using the field points to find the right shaft makes broadheads alot easier. yup, get the test set. Warning: you might become a woodophile once you start shooting wood shafts. Sumpin bout ’em. Best of luck.
-
Last time I checked 3RA they only had glue-on heads up to 190 or 225 grain. I didn’t even think to look at Tuffhead. Thanks for all the info. My first set will be “plain”. Once I get the hang of it all, I’ll do all the cresting, etc and try to make a few as beautiful as some of the folks have posted here. Hope to have some pics of my own. Thanks again for the info. Be well.
Alex
😀
-
For my 28.5″ draw, Im shooting 70-75lb bamboo shafts with the 225 tuffhead. My bow is 51# and just shy of center.
Generally this makes a 675gr – 700gr total arrow weight and 19% FOC. I weed out the heaviest ones and keep the 675gr +/- 10gr.
I found with the spruce and cedar shafts I break the shafts more often than the bamboo. Im trying out some doug fir now.
This is all on my targets, havent taken a meal yet with the heavy set up.
-
Giggles (and anyone else who knows anything about it) — I know less than nothing about bamboo as arrow shafting and am surprised to learn it can be that rigid in spine. Does it go up to 85#? What are its qualities, so far as straightness, ability to straighten, toughness (you already alluded to it being tougher than spruce and cedar, which doesn’t take much in the latter case, which I abandoned years ago), diameter, etc. Is there a website with reliable detailed info? I’ve always thought of boo arrows as an “exotic thing that primitive fans make for themselves, and assumed that if it was as good as wood (it’s grass, after all) it would be more popular. What are the ups and downs? You’ve got me curious now. Thanks for any info.
-
Dave, I’ve not used them either, but know of some guys who have swapped wholesale from wood to bamboo. They’ve suggested the following ebay shop:
That fella sells batches from 30# to 90+#. Reasonably priced. I have no idea about gpi consistency or anything like that. They’ve become very popular down here, so much so there has been discussion about their viability in trad shoots as they are not wood, blah blah blah. Another favourable point is that they are naturally tapered, lending them to FOC. So I am told.
They’re definitely cheap as chips and bamboo is a perfectly renewable resource.
-
On boo shafts
ausjims site looks like the same guy we get it from here, almost all commercially available; ebay, kustom king, etc, comes from the same place in China. They are marked TIGER and the the spine.
The cons I have with boo… Expensive if you buy in small batches, ebay shipping can be high, takes heat to straighten, wild gpi per spine group, sometimes tough to taper.
Pros…
Heavy. After sorting through 50 shafts with gpi varying 200gr I ended up with 8 at 650 gr. Top end of weight was 550, low end 350.
Stays straight. When you sight down a shaft there are little wiggles usually at the nodes, so they arent perfectly straight. With a little heating you can get them perfect but Im not sure its worth it. They are pretty darn straight to begin with. The only thing that warps them is lots of moisture. A good coat of tung oil seems to do the trick.
Natural taper. The business end on my shafts is generally fitted with a 11/32 field point (well, usually the TH field points but 11/32 fits), sometimes 5/16 and tapers down to 5/16 or less.
These shafts are burly. They can take a beating. I dont put a foreshaft on mine. Just taper and put the head on. For the nocks, simple wrapped self nock.
You can slide a bamboo shish kabob skewer inside them for reinforcement if you like.
The gossip around these shafts is that they dont need to be spined or that they have a wide spine tolerance. I find with the heavy head thats not quite the case. With my 225gr heads the 65-70 spines fly like soggy bacon and the 75-80 are just too stiff. 70 – 75 feels good.
I got mine from here, $10 shipping. Bottom of the page.
http://www.franksupply.com/bamboo/bamboo-poles.html#bambooarrowshafts
this is all referring to tonkin boo, which is chinese and heavy, generally dark. Yadake boo is Japanese, used in kyudo and generally much lighter and larger diameter.
-
Thanks again for the wealth of information guys. Everyones input is worth a million bucks in my book.
I really appreciate the sharing…off i go to start my path with woodies
-
Jim and Giggles — thanks for the info. I’m thinking they’re not for me and I’ll stick with Sitka spruce for now. But I do try to keep my eyes open for something better, 😯 so thanks for the leads and experienced info.
-
Cool, getting FOC over 20% is hard with boo.
-
David Petersen wrote: shafts My current setup is a 52# bow with 85 spine Sitka spruce arrows cut to 29.5″.
Kevin just shot me an email with suggestions. Now Im overwhelmed with choices. I do like your setup and im a big fan of FOC with that being said, Im thinking Spruce is the way to go. He agreed to set up a test kit for me after giving him my DL and poundage and weight of my Bh. Is there anything else i should consider prior to placing my order?
-
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.