Some people's thinkin'

[Ralph]

#3309

Something is really, really bugging me today. I went stumping with some friends, known them for many, many years but I found out something about one of them I didn’t know and I can only hope that there’s not many more out there thinkin’ like him. “The object of archery is to get an arrow in an animal and it will bleed out”. Also, “Just put a bullet in those wild hogs, who cares how they die”.

You guys know the deal with hunting animals. You know we have lots of wild hogs, pestilence big time, in Texas and other places. Things don’t just lose all their blood cause you poke a hole in them, or man I’da been out a long time ago. Why would one just shoot an animal just to shoot it? Man, I don’t even comprehend. Maybe I do being the state the world is in.

My sixth sense has warned me I guess but I have never invited this guy to bow hunt, or hunt period, with me on my lease. His thinking just ain’t right.

My belief is that if your going to shoot something, shoot to kill, not just to hit. Nothing needs to suffer in death either.

I could go on and on but I won’t. Only won’t have much to do with this fella anymore.

I hope we have way more people ethically minded than not. I know our group here respects their prey but I’m not so sure now about others.

Sorry if not totally trad related but I hope none of you have to be exposed to this.

Makes me sad. Thanks for putting up with me on this but a part of me has been hurt today.

[David Petersen]

#18480

Ralph, you must lead a sheltered life. The “just get an arrow in it anywhere” attitude is all too common. And without naming any specific group, the longer the shots people think it’s OK to take, the more cavalier they become about where the arrow hits and how it penetrates. Can’t count the times I’ve heard guys boasting in public “I stuck one at 70 yards this morning.” I’m yet to hear these types follow up with “he went down in sight” or even “I really searched hard for him but no luck.” They flat don’t give a damn about the animals they hunt and IMO the have no right to hunt. I’ve turned down all of several invites I’ve gotten to come hunt hogs in TX because the inviters inevitably have delighted in telling all the various ways locals have devised to torture and kill them. Just a bit too much delight in blood, suffering and death there for my stomach. Pigs are not charismatic animals and they are devastating on the habitat. But even if we can’t respect the animals we hunt, at least we should maintain some self-respect.

[James Harvey]

#18492

It’s a pretty common thing here too Ralph. Feral animals are at times treated not just with disrespect but with open malice. It’s disappointing to say the least. Everyone of those pigs is just another animal born into the world and trying to make their way.

[Ralph]

#18532

David,

I pretty much hunt on my own anymore mainly for the reasons spoken of. It just hurt being so close to home.

I won’t go to archery tournaments that are mixed trads and wheels any more cause I don’t like to see and hear what has happened to “my sport”.

I won’t go on those pig hunts and I won’t get in those big groups of pheasant hunters cause any bird taken is so full of lead you can’t eat it anyway.

I know where there’s a shooting line for geese and I won’t do that either. Two reasons: another case of lead fowling 😆 and I never ate a cooked goose that I cared for so why shoot one. Might have something to do with mine having been cooked a time or two…..I was a hard headed Marine, did my best at what I did and was good at it but I also had a bad habit of saying what I thought. Not always advantageous por moi! Not even when asked was it wise 😉

I’m OK, just one more lesson in life learned. Never quit learning.

[shaneharley]

#18567

Yeah there’s a lot of people I won’t hunt with because of the same kind of issues you’re seeing. It’s very unfortunate. Kinda scary. But it’s there. The gun hunters brag of super long range shots. I’ve met enough bowhunters, those with wheels and those without, that wouldn’t even hesitate to try for a 70 yard shot. Which at that distance I believe they could hit the animal but making an accurate shot and all the things that can happen in 70 yards…

[William Warren]

#18755

R2 I’m right there with you man. I can’t stand folks who don’t respect the things they hunt. Hate to say it but even some of my own extended family will do some things that bother me. The “whack em and stack em” mentality does not do it for me. I even tried going on the family hunts and demonstrating how to be respectful of the deer or the squirrels and ducks we took from the river. To not just chuck em into the bottom of the boat with the bilge water. I think they just regard me as an oddity and maybe I am. I’ve tried to engage them in other activities other than floating the river and driving the points but they don’t want to try rattling or spot and stalk. I like the camping and the river but it would be so much more enjoyable to spend extra time in some specific areas. I should know better than to try and re-write someone else’s tradition. The campfire stories are always of how we way-laid them as if they were the enemy. And don’t get me started on the guys at the deer camp I used to go to.

In many areas deer and other animals have populated to the point that they are considered vermin and I think this contributes to the almost hateful way that some people treat them. It is true that we are not likely to change other peoples views overnight but we can continue to demonstrate care and empathy in our hunting. We are, as Ausjim put it, very much like the pig who cannot help the circumstance to which he was born, but is simply just trying to make his way in the world.

[Troy Warner]

#18777

Buck up Ralph,

There’s more folks than you would think that feel the way those of us here do, they just don’t speak up very often.

I don’t like to hunt with other folks unless they are close friends or family. Not to hard on me since I only have a couple of people I actually consider friends and they both live in other states, as do most my of my family. 😀

I understand how it hurts to have someone you thought you new turn out to be someone completely different. 😡

All we can do is keep pluggin along. 😕

[Stephen Graf]

#19127

All of this is yet just another example of the sad fact that humans have not adopted a land ethic, as Leopold observed nearly a century ago.

He also observed that it has taken us nearly 3000 years to recognize that it’s not right to have slaves or treat others as human chattel. At least we’ve gotten over that one, well mostly.

Problem is, The earth can’t wait another 3000 years for humans to get their heads right.

If you want to see what this sort of thinking does on a governmental level, come to NC. Our waco legislature just passed a law that not only repealed all state level clean air and water regulations, but prohibits counties and cities from making their own.

And I am sure that all this new “freedom from government” will really benefit us soon, as our governor (of the same unnamed party as the waco legislature and a vice president of duke “the dirtiest utility on the planet” power) has fired all the citizens and scientists from all the environmental and development boards and replaced them with lobbyists from the coal, oil, and fracking industries.

You think those little piggies had problems yesterday…

[Cameron Unruh]

#19312

Ralph – I am so committed to a clean ethical shot that I have yet to release an arrow at a buck and I have been hunting for 12 years here in California in the national forest. I have had several 50 to 70 yard encounters. But would not think of taking the shot and I can tell you with great passion – I dream of the day I kneel down over a buck that has fallen to a well placed arrow. I won’t even share the kind of activity that takes place in the woods that I hunt. One major frustration for me is a particular group of people new to our local cities that are known for poaching any and all deer they see. A forest Ranger shared this with me and said they can’t even begin to patrol this activity.

[David Fudala]

#19437

It’s very refreshing to find a group of individuals who share such high regards for the animals we pursue. This is one of the main reasons I gave up compounds and took up traditional gear. There was a growing competition among my own clique of hunting companions over who could shoot the most deer, how far away they were shot and how big they were. It became so toxic that I completely walked away from it all and severed my ties with people that I had shared the woods with for over 20 years. I will miss the comradery this season for sure but I could not stomach the mind set that these beautiful creatures we share the wild places with were only there to provide us with entertainment. Every animal that gives its life to a hunter deserves a hell of a lot more than that and we owe it to them to never forget that! I tip my hat to all of you for sharing these feelings and putting the honor of the animal above the ego of the hunter! I hope we can do enough for this sport that those that follow never forget where we came from!

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#19461

Thanks for posting this, R2. This topic gets my blood boiling, and I’ve already deleted a couple fired up responses…

Killing is an inevitable part of successful hunting, and while I enjoy hunting immensely, I don’t revel in the killing, or take it lightly, ever. While it can feel like an intense sense of accomplishment when it all comes together, I don’t pump my fist in the air, I don’t laugh about it – no matter what species it is. I’ve had people tell me to ‘lighten up’ and quit taking it so seriously, but the fact is – I can’t, and I don’t want to. Having an incredibly fun time hunting, and still taking the killing seriously are not mutually exclusive in my book.

As Jim said well above – “Everyone of those pigs is just another animal born into the world and trying to make their way.” While pigs are non-native and can be very destructive, it doesn’t negate for me anything that I said above. I respect tenacity in all its forms.

And if anything, we as a species are the worst culprit of everything we tend to accuse non-native species of. As is the case with most forms of hatred, it probably applies to the accuser at least as much as the accused…

[garydavis]

#19492

Most of the hunters I’ve personally known take everything seriously and are often successful in taking game. Then there’s the armed folks that just want to go kill something. Most of the latter complain a lot about getting in trouble with law enforcement for one thing or another. I don’t care to lift a glass with those folks much. I’m with you Ralph, just don’t have much time for the a**holes anymore.

Semper Fi

Gary

[jpd]

#19498

I have put all my guns up and have got me a new Recurve to only hunt small game. I don’t really care if I kill any animals anymore I just enjoy being in the field. Todays hunting shows on TV and the videos that are being sold all have given to the mentality of not caring about the ethics of hunting with a gun or bow. I will not hunt with anyone anymore as I just can’t take all the talk about how far they can shoot or how fast their bow shoots.—jim

[smiley1]

#19506

This attitude towards the game we pursue is all too common in the modern hunting world. I primarily hunt solo because of this very issue. People just don’t understand the respect that is due to the animals we hunt. As previously stated ” this topic gets my blood boiling”! I have been asked why don’t I hunt with so and so? They’re an archery hunter too…. I just can’t bring myself to be in the company of people who think launching an arrow from a mechanical device at long distances and wounding an animal is ok!!! This past spring I went on a bear hunt in Canada and there was a few other guys in camp (all wheelers except one other longbow shooter). It was disgusting to hear the stories being told about other hunts they had been on. One guy in particular ( who happens to be sponsored by a wheelie manufacturer) was bragging about the 112 yard shot he made on a dall sheep then went on to clarify– that was his second shot after he wounded it at 75 yards. And people think the antis are the problem? Hmmm! Needless to say if I wasn’t so far into the Canadian wilderness I would have left camp but boat or floatplane was the only way out so I had to endure a week of wishing I didn’t go on the hunt. First thing I told my brother when I got home was “well that’s the last hunt I go on without like minded traditional hunters”. It really makes me sad to think we are in the minority.

Steve

[David Petersen]

#19700

Once again, you guys make me proud and grateful to be one of the club among so many sane and good human beings via this website, which is like no other in the world.

The hardest thing in the world is to criticize people in person for the BS they are spouting, and even harder when it’s “friends” or family. But it must be done and I for one won’t go to my grave with any regrets for speaking my mind. The fact that we are such a minority doesn’t speak well for the world. People, most people, want to be good I believe. But if you’re brought up by idiot parents, and live in an area where laws and culture give wildlife no respect and Yee-haw! buffoonery is the norm, and everything you see on TV and in most all commercial hunting rags tells you to be a stupid thoughtless jerk, well it takes an exceptional person to rise above all of that. Just when I’m about to give up fighting for anything, a thread like this comes along and reminds me how many good people there are out there, minority or not, and my energy is renewed. I’d rather be an elitist than a slob any day.

Jim, welcome here. You’re among good folks, as you’ve already determined.

[Col Mike]

#19707

Steve

Welcome aboard–I echo every thing Dave said. Not sure how far you are from W.MD but if your ever out this way bring along your bow and we will do some walking and stumping in the woods.

Semper Fi

Mike

[Ptaylor]

#22698

Well, I just got back from a week hunting and am catching upon all the fun. I should’ve put my reply to Dave’s “camera muggers” topic over here. But anyway, I agree with you all.

I just had an AWESOME week hunting. Nope, no deer hanging inmy shed to show for it though. But the scenery, watching bucks and does and fawns, trying to sneak up on them, getting busted, hiking up and down hills until my calves burned, waking up to a night full of stars, hearing the ocean roar, breathing in the fresh air, and more, all reminded me of why I hunt, regardless of killing an animal. Bringing home a deer is like the best cream cheese icing on a homemade carrot cake, IMO if you like carrot cake:D. I saw one person all week, other than my hunting buddy. And heard no vehicles. So sweet! Never even drew back my bow, well except at a jackrabbit I shot under its belly and missed:lol:

preston

[tailfeather]

#22987

Ptaylor wrote: But the scenery, watching bucks and does and fawns, trying to sneak up on them, getting busted, hiking up and down hills until my calves burned, waking up to a night full of stars, hearing the ocean roar, breathing in the fresh air, and more, all reminded me of why I hunt

YES. Can’t wait.

[hrhodes]

#29737

I have been away from this forum for a while, but reading these posts reminds me of what a good group this is. I am in full agreement with you guys. I believe any game animal deserves respect and that it is a moral obligation for any hunter to deliver a clean, humane killing shot. I hunt with a self bow and cane arrows. I shoot pretty straight out to 30yds, but restrict my shots on whitetails to 18 yards or closer. I know that it could happen this year, but in thirty-five years of hunting with a bow, I have never failed to find an animal that I have shot. I don’t recall taking a deer at further than twelve yards.

Looking at the waste left behind after hunting season is another thing that bugs me. I hate seeing so many heads, hides, and wasted halves of deer carcasses laying beside the dirt roads during hunting season. I think we owe it to the deer to use their body, all of the meat, the hide, horns – every useable part. Just my two cents.

[handirifle]

#29879

I see no difference from gun hunting or bow hunting. To me, it’s all in the ethics one uses when hunting. It matters not the weapon used.

I would not take a shot I do not feel certain of succeeding in. That being said, I like anyone else that has hunted and shot game, have had things happen to cause a less than perfect shot. I have lost animals when archery hunting, after several days of tracking, sometime over miles of ground. Bad hit? Yes. Bad shot, possibly, but in every case I can still see the animals make a move just at release.

I have never lost a firearm shot deer. Which is more ethical?

There have always been unethical people that kill game with any means possible, with no regard for the ethics of fair chase, or whether or not the shot is a high percentage one. It’s all a numbers game to them. To me, it’s meat on the table so every effort is made to recover every game animal shot.

I believe ethics are more than the weapon, it’s a mindset. When folks have zero issues with SOOOO many moral standards, do we really expect their hunting ethics to be different?

I won’t post details, but to me, it’s really no surprise this is a growing trend.

[Ralph]

#30359

It’s not the matter of the weapon used, it’s the user of the weapon that matters.

I’ve never had the urge to act as others that are doing what I dislike or what I don’t believe in or knowingly be amongst them.

How I react to what they do makes me what I am, what they do, they are.

Making a hunt to a place where fifty people drive animals by my stand and shooting something just to say “been there, done that” is not my bag of tea. To others it may be but I’ll not add to the pocketbooks of those who provide such “entertainment”.

I’ll not hunt with people that have, IMHO poor ethics, such as my friend, but I’m forced by life to be around him and others and anger won’t cure anything. It’s impossible for me to ignore such issues but I can’t live dwelling on them. Voting, education and gentle persuasion is what can be done perhaps.

Outnumbered I be? Maybe so but not trying to work for a cure is definitely the short road to failure.

It is so good to be amongst like minded people when it comes to morals and ethics.

[Author]

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