Shooting form question

[handirifle]

#4022

Not sure if this is the right forum or not, but I have a shooting form question, so here goes.

First off let me explain a few things about me. I am left handed, right eye dominant. I did not find this out until after MANY years of shooting left handed and am too stubborn to switch.

When shooting wheel bows and sights, not an issue, am accurate (4″groups) to 45yds easily. It is a little bit of an issue with the recurve, however, but mostly I can compensate, and have done so pretty well.

That said, when I dug out the recurve the other night, shooting my Wendsel Woodsman, broadheads into the foam target, I noticed a recurring issue, that has plagued me for a long time. My shots will be at a 3″ dot at various ranges, out to 20-25yds. In closer shots I can easily hit arrows, but as the yardage gets longer, I notice, when shooting say, 4 arrows, that two will group high and two will group low.

Common sense tells me it’s one of two issues, either my anchor is variable, or I am changing heel pressure on the bow.

What’s the best way to tell which it is? This is when shooting a hunting weight bow, 52-54lbs, and hunting arrows, Easton XX75’s 2018’s with Wendsel heads on them. Arrow flight is great, so that is not the issue. When I do my part, I can get a 3″ group at 20yds, but I am too inconsistent to feel confident enough to hunt deer with the recurve.

And for the record, I have tried shooting right handed, but it feels very odd, very odd. I really see as many or more issues right handed, as I do left.

[new moon]

#26080

To correct some of my form issues I have filmed myself shooting. I have often found out more than I wanted to know.:oops: This might be a place for you to start. In addition it’s a way to keep track of your form over the years.
I’ll be interested to see what other people recommend.
Josh

[handirifle]

#26377

I had kinda wondered about a video. I guess i would need to narrate, telling myself if a shot went high, low, leftbetc so i could see the cause/effect of the form i guess.

[Stephen Graf]

#26566

I know you said you have good arrow flight. But I would still suggest that you bare shaft tune an arrow.

I have found that a well made arrow with good FOC corrects itself so fast that it appears to fly perfectly, which it does. Problem is, that when released the direction it chooses to fly in can be slightly random if the tuning is out.

The answer could be as simple as moving the nock set on your string. But you won’t be able to tell that without casting a few bare shafts…

[skifrk]

#26958

How are you aiming your bow if instinctive then you might not be focusing enough. Also our brain compensates when we miss in the same spot twice and the goes to correct and if we do that with a hand move to we have overcompensated. I would recommend filming to make sure that you doing a proper draw and release since you might not be getting those down. I found for me I was overdrawing and not keeping my bow hand and string hand and elbow not in line and this cleaned up my moving side to side.

[handirifle]

#27097

Good feedback, and thanks. This bow has been hard to tune with ANY arrow. I am looking up methods to make an endless loop string and will make one for this bow. One of it’s issues is the string is 16 strand and thick serving. This is too much string for the bow, and that on top of the thick serving make the nocks too tight. I also want to l=make it a slight bit longer, so I can tune the brace height for the quietest and smoothest shot.

That I know is PART of the problem, but a video may show the other part (ME). Once I make sure my form stays consistent then I’ll try to bare shaft tune. I have a limited supply of arrows, as far as sizes go, and archery shops are not real well stocked around here. The best flight I have seen from this bow so far, is with the current setup. Weight is well FOC, but haven’t measured that to know exactly how much.

[Stephen Graf]

#27934

I think of shooting sort of like dancing. One partner has to lead, and the other has to follow. If the person following is not doing a good job, then the person leading gets all boogered up too.

For me, it’s the same with a bow. If I am shooting a bow that isn’t tuned properly and “following my lead”, then my form goes all to hell too.

I would almost go so far as to say that if the bow/arrow combo is not shooting correctly, it is not possible to establish good form with it.

I humbly suggest that you give yourself a break. Don’t concentrate on, or worry about, your form until you get a good bare shaft tune from your setup.

[handirifle]

#28432

Steve Graf wrote: I think of shooting sort of like dancing. One partner has to lead, and the other has to follow. If the person following is not doing a good job, then the person leading gets all boogered up too.

For me, it’s the same with a bow. If I am shooting a bow that isn’t tuned properly and “following my lead”, then my form goes all to hell too.

I would almost go so far as to say that if the bow/arrow combo is not shooting correctly, it is not possible to establish good form with it.

I humbly suggest that you give yourself a break. Don’t concentrate on, or worry about, your form until you get a good bare shaft tune from your setup.

Well went dancing:D tonight. I did bareshaft tune, sort of. The shafts hit nock left, which for me is too stiff an arrow (leftie), but the sorta part, is I have no field points as heavy as the Wendsels. They weigh in the neighborhood of 170gr, with the inserts (they were glue on heads, from the wood arrow days) and my heaviest field point is 125gr. I remember in the Black Widow, Tour and Tuning video I have, he said a little nock left with field points is ok, if you’re going to use broadheads. They require a slightly stiffer arrow to help stabilize.

So with that factored in, plus the Wendsels weigh about 45gr more, I figured it would correct most of it. Ideally, I could have a slightly longer shaft, but since I have none around, and not the funds to buy them yet, I will at least keep it all under consideration for later date.

The arrows are xx75 2018’s, and I couldn’t find my tape measure, for some reason, but at this point length is irrelevant, since I can’t buy any just yet.

I also corrected another problem I am not sure I mentioned. The string was a 16 strand with thick serving and my arrows had to really snap hard, onto the string. I feel this caused some of the inconsistencies, I know it made the bow excessively loud.

The string is now 14 strand, with thinner serving and the arrows snap on perfectly.

I have been adjusting the brace height, nock point, and checking arrow flight, all at the same time. When I can get some longer 2018’s I’ll recheck everything.

Currently brace height is 8 1/4″ and it may go to 8 1/2 before I am done. The bow is shooting quieter, and I am already grouping more consistently.

Shooting at a 3″ dot, at 15yds, my groups went from 2 arrows 2-3″ above the dot, and 2 arrows 2-3″ below the dot, to 2 arrows nearly touching ,inside the dot, and a third arrow about 2-3 inches left of the other two. Not perfect, but MUCH improved. These groups are all with the Wendsel’s installed.

I haven’t video’d myself yet, taking graf’s advice on the arrows has helped. Funny how it’s often things I know, but either forgot or thought it might not be the issue I need to address. I will video myself next to see what i am doing wrong, and maybe find a way to post it for ya’all to view, and laugh at.:lol:.

[trapperDave]

#28795

I think you would find 2016’s to be more consistent, those 2018s are best for bows over 60#

[handirifle]

#29558

OK, I thought I answered this from my phone, maybe that’s why some of my emails go unreplied to…..

I will look into the 2016’s. I started looking into new shafts today, and it seems like there is a trend that has happened since I last bought arrow shafts (long time ago) and that is the 500, 400, 340 yada yada…numbering system.

I personally like the older system. It allows me to select a heavier than normal shafts, if so desired, that still meets the tuning requirements. There were a lot more sizes to choose from.

kinda like choosing any color of car you want, as long as it’s the one they want you to use.

[Stephen Graf]

#29767

I’m glad things are working better! When you say it is hitting nock left, how much left?

I just ask ’cause if it’s hitting more than 1/2 inch left, it still may cause some inconsistencies, at least for me it would.

You may want to try adding/removing material to/from your side plate. I have found that once you get things close, adjusting the side plate often cleans up the last little bit.

I take a piece of old t-shirt and lay it flat on wax paper. Then I soak it in Barge Cement. Once it’s hard I cut it up into little squares that I can add/remove from the side plate till it’s right. This gives me adjustability in the 1/32″ range… And it lasts pretty well too.

[handirifle]

#30343

It’s more than a “bit” left, I’d say somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3″ left (way too much I know) actually, and this may very well be why I get the grouping I did the last go round, Two tight and a left flier.

I will look for some reasonably priced 2016’s and see what I can do with it.

I went looking around and found out the Wendsels come in 125 and 150gr screw in models. Wondering if the 125’s would be a better matchup with the 2016’s. Weight wise, it would be better cause i have 125gr target points to bare shaft tune with. No guessing that way.

[Stephen Graf]

#30904

If it was me, I’d get some heavier field points to get the spine right. I’d rather go with the thicker arrow you have any day. Especially with aluminum.

at about 3 bucks a dozen from 3Rivers or Kustom King, you could get the full spectrum of field points from 125 through 300 grains. Then you would be able to find the exact weight to get perfect spine on your arrows. Now, and in the future… And it would cost less than the new arrows you are considering…

[trapperDave]

#30970

he would be lobbing some heavy arse arrows downrange 8)

[handirifle]

#31740

Yes they would be heavy, but after reading up on the EFOC concept it might not be bad. I like the effect of the heavy arrow anyway, since it makes a bow quieter and smoother shooting, both pluses in my book.

Thanks for the tip on the tips, will look into them.

[Author]

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