Home › Forums › Campfire Forum › Roosevelt Elk vs. Rocky Mountain Elk
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It’s very difficult to find any information about the Pacific coast Elk, the Roosevelt. All of the Elk hunting books, shows, articles etc. are 90% of the time about their Rocky Mountain cousins, who’s habits and haunts are quite different than our rain-forest Wapiti. For anybody who has been privileged enough to hunt both species, I ask, what where the most notable differences? How to the hunting tactics compare?
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Indeed, welcome. Another member, Thomas Downing, is very experienced on RM elk and got to hunt Roosevelt’s last year on an island off Washington, I believe. I recall him saying that overcrowding with other hunters, dense foliage and nearly nonstop rain worked together to prevent a kill. Maybe T will spot this thread and offer some insights. From here, I am thinking that habitat and weather will definitely change the hunt but an elk is an elk, especially in rut. You lucky fellow. Homer
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Rosie elk generally have smaller mass antlers and bigger bodies than Rocky mtn elk. They live primarily in the rain forest of the Pacific Northwest. Many herds have interbred with Rockies. Although it might be true that the Vancouver Island population is clean. Good eating.
Tactics .. Run through the jungle like a gorilla. One notable… They often live on the river where they can escape predators by swimming across them.
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rayborbon wrote:
Tactics .. Run through the jungle like a gorilla.Haha….solid advice.
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Not to rob this thread, but Bruce, I just checked your link and see that you’re one of those bird-brains. 😉 In fact, nice work! I have always had alleged bird dogs, alas, untrained as we have no upland birds here in SW CO and I can’t afford to travel. Of course we do have the beloved “thunder chicken.”
Now, back to Rosies vs. Rockies. Re Homer’s comment that “elk are elk,” in fact the notion of N.A. subspecies has pretty much been erased in the scientific community, if never in the popular mind. What they are, are “regional variations.” The small differences we see in morphology (visible differences if physical form) and behavior have to do with local habitat. Take a herd of Tules and put them in Colorado, with no interbreeding with Rockies, and in a few generations their bodies and antlers get bigger and they are Rockies. And vice versa. As the business folk like to say, it’s all about location. Which is NOT to say that habitat differences don’t require different hunting strategies. Dave
dave -
David Petersen wrote: Not to rob this thread, but Bruce, I just checked your link and see that you’re one of those bird-brains. 😉 In fact, nice work! I have always had alleged bird dogs, alas, untrained as we have no upland birds here in SW CO and I can’t afford to travel. Of course we do have the beloved “thunder chicken.”
Yup. Between that, archery and several other things, it’s amazing I have a successful marriage at all!
And if you do ever find yourself up this way, let me know. You’ve got a place to crash and we’ve got tons of public land to chase all sorts of birds in. This year, my goal is to take the dog and the bow, rather than the shotgun, and take a stab at pheasants. My better half tells me I may as well joust at windmills while I’m at it.
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If memory serves me there was recently in one of the hunting publications of either TBM or the NAHC magazine a write up on hunting the Roosevelt elk and how the guy who got the recent Washington state P&Y record and which tactics he used. Most of it seemed similar to hunting Rocky Mountain Elk in the dense aspen areas.
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Lycaon –
I have hunted Rocky Mtn Elk many times, but not Roosevelts. Patrick Meitins – Bowhunting Modern elk [ compound guy – but says he is switching over to trad bow more now]. Pat’s book [has a chapter on roosevelts] is quite good and Honest! he say’s Hunting Roosevelt’s tactics are as Mentioned by Mr Borbon.
Scout -
I have hunted both rockies and rosies lots of times in lots of different places and I do think its harder to hunt rosies. Most of this is because of the forest they live in.
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I hunted Roosevelt elk in Washington two years ago during the late hunt. I saw one cow in my 6 day hunt and I saw her for about 3 seconds! Tough hunting in all of that thick forest, especially where I was…That said, several resident hunters we camped with were getting into elk almost daily. I think it was more our lack of experience in the area that hindered our hunting. Because the elk were there.The elk sign was everywhere and you would hear them but seeing them deep in the timber was extremely challenging. I want to go back, perhaps this next November. Here is a some pictures of some of that thick country.
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When you guys have figured out elk hunting on the wet side of the Cascades, I invite you to try your hand on whitetails here in the jungles of NH. 😉 At least you can occasionally traverse some ground by walking on the downed Doug fir trees, as I used to do over there.
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Glenn St.Charles talks about rain forest elk in his book, Bows On The Little Delta. Read his book and see how they hunted. I found myself wanting to pack a raft up the river bottom and set up camp. 8^).
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T Downing —
Great Camo job Mr Downing, bits and pieces, all broke up —
You should write an Article for Tradbow. It is obvious you have it sorted out, imho.
Scout -
Thank you all for your responses! It is true, Elk are Elk, and habits are habitat specific, but in my experience, some of the biggest differences between the species are:
*Roosevelt seem to run shorter circuits. I’ve heard stories of Rocky mountain elk covering up to twenty miles in a circuit, where as most Roosevelts, once they find suitable habitat, will stick to an area of just a few square miles until snow, or human pressure drives them out.
*Another major difference is that Roosevelts are alot less vocal (which makes sense, because even a bulls bugle will not travel very far in this jungle country). Even the cows seem to keep the herd chatter to a minimum.
*Roosevelts (at least where I’m hunting them) run in smaller herds as well, usually no more than 5-10 animals even in the winter. I don’t know what the average herd size is in the Rockies, but whenever I’ve been lucky enough to run into elk in my wanderings in Montana, I’ve always been amazed at the size of the massive herds scattered throughout the valleys and plains. -
Over dinner one night, a group of fine Washingtonian hunters offered the following; Roosevelt elk are like bodybuilders, they don’t travel very far but are big and burly and are as tough as nails…Rocky Mtn elk are like long distance runners, they travel great distances, have hardly no fat to speak of and are “lean and mean”. I think they hit the nail on the head with this analogy…
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This was my 3rd season chasing Roosevelt’s, after 20+ years hunting “the dry side” (Washington).
I am real excited about my prospects for next early season.
I have found that they move slower, as in when coming to a call, they take their time.sometimes more than 30 minutes to an hour, patience is the key.
After finding them, they tend to be less likely to run into the next county like the “Rocky’s” like to.
Also, even though we found sign on logging roads, most actual trails were along river/creek bottoms.
My story from this season…
Opening morning was warm 69 degrees, and starry at 4:00 while I was waiting for the coffee to perk….
My partner for the day was Ed “Lokidog” that I had met on hunting-washington.com.
It was his first time in the unit we were hunting, so he was depending on me to get him into some Elk.
As we drove down to the bottom to go hunt at a walk-in gate that I liked, the temperature dropped 20 degrees, and the clouds obscured the sky.
We got to the gate at 5:50, about 20 minutes until “shooting light” perfect in my estimation.
It would allow us to get ready, and walk in a short ways before actual light.
We had just gotten to where the road forked, a spot I had encountered an Elk a couple seasons ago, and were deciding which way to go.
We had walked about 10 yards when an Elk bugled off in the distance up the other road, so we changed directions, and headed towards the sound.
After walking about 1/4 mile, Ed had to go “take care of some unfinished business” and I told him I would walk about 50 yards up the road and have a smoke.
While standing there waiting for him, I heard a squirrel start scolding something, and then a limb break !
He came walking up the road and I signaled that I had heard something in the bushes back from the road.
I threw out a couple cow chirps from my trusty “Sceery Ace” call……
Another limb broke !
I looked into the bushes and found a game trail.
Walking in about 20 yards, I gave another couple of chirps……
After not hearing anything, I took a couple more steps…..
DAMN !! there was an Elk staring right at me !!
I froze, and slowly sunk to one knee, shaking with the sudden burst of adrenalin.
This Elk was about 45 yards out and staring straight at where I was crouched, arrow nocked and fingers on the string. (Me, not the Elk)
At this time, Ed decided to give a couple cow chirps.
The Elk looked his direction, and then took 4-5 steps up the trail to get a better view.
I could now see he was a small 4X5 with cute little “deer sized” antlers, a legal Bull, and a trophy in my book.
The Elk was now about 35 yards out, but quartered towards me, a shot I was unwilling to chance……
Ed chirped again, and the Elk now took a couple more steps, and was now standing 25 yards away, perfect broadside, and locked on Ed’s location……
but there was a tree covering his vitals so I had no shot, he started to move forward slightly, I increased the tension on the string, prepared to take what I considered an “easy shot”, but instead of taking that step, he suddenly spun and took a couple bounds down the hill into cover.
Then he let out a grunt, and Ed blew a bugle on this “whistle” call that he had (a vintage call made in the ’60s)
Suddenly, from the other side of the road we had walked up a thunderous bugle erupted from a different Elk !!!!
We quickly backed out of where we were, and got onto the road and began looking for a trail into the other side….
Finding a well used game trail, we got back into the bushes about 40-50 yards…..
I let out a couple cow chirps…..
We heard the bull start raking…..
Ed let out one of the “whistles” and the bull lost it !! literally SCREAMED at us !!!
I chirped again….
Ed whistled again…
That bull came crashing through the brush like a freight train, stopping about 25 yards in front of Ed to demolish an innocent bush, Ed had no shot because the Bull was on the other side of this bush.
Unfortunately, I felt a small breeze on the back of my neck, and the Bull decide to depart suddenly.
All was quiet……..
We backed on out to the road and figure out what to do now.
1 hour into the season, and we had each almost had a shot at a Bull (his was a larger 5 point)
Man what an exciting way to start the day !!
The rest of the day was pretty uneventful, lots of walking, plenty of fresh air and exercise, but other than a lot of fresh bear sign (poop), and Elk tracks, nothing real stimulating.
As we left the area for the evening, I let a little squeal out into the area that I had “almost” with that little bull, he squealed back !, but with fading light, we decided to come back in the morning.
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The next morning we got back in the same area, but after getting no response to our calls, we decided to drop down into the creek bottom that the larger bull was in, just to “invade his space” and see if we could stir something up.
Other than seeing some real good looking area, and a few thrashed bushes, we kept going, planning on climbing out other side to a road that showed up on my GPS.
After an intense uphill climb through some really nasty brush, we finally came out on the road.
Ed had to leave that day due to some responsibilities he had to take care of, so we just walked the road to top of ridge to see the other side.
Standing on the crest of the hill, Ed blew on his whistle……
Out of the creek bottom a Bull bugled back at us !!
Ed and I discussed going after him, but with him having to leave, we decided to just play with him.
Every time Ed blew on the whistle, that bull would answer, I threw a few cow calls, then as I walked over to the edge I stepped on a couple branches, breaking them loudly.
This must have flipped a switch on that bull because we could hear him coming !!
He stopped out of sight down the hill about 50 Yards, so I decided to start heading the other direction, cow calling as I went to try to draw him up the hill past ED, unfortunately this did not work.
He had returned to where he was, we could hear him down there walking around, and breaking stuff.
Figuring he had cows of his own because Ed had heard some chirps, we got him to bugle again, then dropped off the hill in his direction.
Unfortunately, after a short ways we decided it was too steep, and deep, to get down there, and still get out with time for ED to make his appointments and climbed back to top.
It was a long walk back to the truck, and then drive to camp.
Saying goodbye to a new friend, and talk of future hunting trips, maybe a fishing, crabbing, shrimping, whatever (he lives on an Island in the San Juans)
I was left alone in camp due to not having anyone else show up.
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While I was gathering my gear to head out for the evening hunt, a lone hunter showed up at the other campsite near me.
We got to talking, and he was a 2nd year hunter, hunting by himself because everyone he knew rifle hunted.
With almos
t no experience with Elk hunting, he was not sure what to do, as he had done some walking, and some driving, but had seen no Elk, no real fresh sign, and had no Idea what to do next.
I invited him along with me in the morning, and we decided to go see if my little bull was home for the evening.
Unfortunately we had wasted so much time B.S.ing that by the time we got there, it was almost dark.
I squealed a couple times, but received no response, so we headed back to the truck, planning our assault in the morning.
As we drove through town, there was a herd of 18 cows and calves, with a Bull standing out in a field alongside road, “Cool !” Tim said, as he just liked seeing some Elk, even if we could not hunt them…
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The next morning, we got to the gate at 5:30 and began walking towards the first spur that would put us in the creek bottom, planning on following it upstream until we got to were (I thought) the Elk were.
We had gone quite a ways and were in an area that was criss/crossed with Elk trails and found a small opening in the creek bottom, when I called a break.
While we were eating a snack (and I smoked) I let out an occasional cow chirp.
After we had been there a while, I threw out a couple of long nasally cow mews (sometimes called an “estrous buzz”) then a small bugle/squeal, and some chuckles.
Sitting on a log, I grabbed a stick and started raking a bush near me.
A bull EXPLODED in a VERY LOUD SCREAM !!
WOW!! (Tim said) “that is so cool !!”
I told him to move out of the middle of the opening over to a small patch of trees for cover, but while moving over there he got busted by a 5X6 that was walking straight in to us about 50 yards out.
They both froze and looked at each other, but the bull moved off and the encounter was over.
We continued on our way upstream, but other than a lot of sign, found no Elk.
After climbing out of creekbottom to road, we began to walk downhill towards the truck.
We were about halfway down hill when suddenly we saw a 4 pt bull standing on a spur road about 15 yards away from us (this was right at intersection)
Unfortunately he saw us too, and left in a hurry !!
As we stood there we could hear a lot more than one Elk moving through bushes, so I got on that spur and tried to keep them between us.
As I moved down road, I could hear some cows chirping below me, and some moving through the bushes above me, thinking to myself “perfect!”
Unfortunately I went too far and had an about 2 year old calf come down across road behind me, stopping at about 45 Yards, before jumping road to go rejoin herd.
Hearing no further sound from anything, I headed back to see what Tim was doing.
He had gone up road, and had a cow poke its head out of the bushes looking away from him about 20 yards away.
Unfortunately Elk look both ways before crossing a road, and upon seeing him standing in middle, decided to leave, presenting no shot.
We walked out with no further action, enjoying the memory of the day.
That herd was out in the field in town again while we headed back to camp, and we stopped to look at them in the fading light.
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Tim had to leave that evening, so I was alone again and wondering what to do the next day.
I woke up early, and decided to ride my bike in to area, thinking I would get there earlier.
Discovering that a 46 year old, overweight, out of shape smoker, has no business riding a bike uphill with all his gear on, I stashed the bike and walked the road.
After walking along, calling and getting no responses, I finally made it up on top of ridge, at end of road.
I looked around and picked out a stump on the edge of the clear-cut (one of the few in area)
I sat smoking a cigarette, looking out across the distance and decided to bugle just for the fun of it.
My bugle echoed out across the vast canopy of trees.
I thought it sounded so cool, I just “let her rip”, I bugled, I grunted, I screamed, I chuckled, I squealed….
I made every call I could think of, non stop, just playing around thinking nothing of it, other than just how cool it sounded.
My “play time” was interrupted by the loud breaking of branches as something came running up the hill.
I only had time to grab my bow, nock an arrow and turn around before a really tall racked 3X4 pt jumped out in the landing at the end of road, unfortunately 40+ yards away from where I was sitting.
Seeing nothing, he turned around and started leaving, I hit him with a low squeal, and he turned around, presenting me with a broadside shot, but too far away for me to comfortably release (especially because I was shaking really hard)
Getting nervous because he could not see anything where he thought an elk should be He turned and faded into the trees, leaving me alone.
The walk out was uneventful, a few fresh tracks, but we all know that tracks are made by Elk that USED to be there, not ones that are there.
Planning on trying my “new trick” in a different area (I had walked all roads in this little system) I headed back to camp, and called home to find out when the Family was due to arrive, as it was Ruby’s Birthday and camp was set up, I wanted to know when to expect them.
Finding out that the truck would not start all week (dead battery, and clueless Sonja) and the goats kept getting out of there yard, creating havoc at home, I had to put my plans on hold and get home to correct these issues.
My season ended by getting contacted by an old friend from my childhood, wanting to give it a shot for the final weekend.
We left my house at 3:30 AM Friday morning, me, Michael (my friend) and his 9 year old son.
He told me that he had only hunted for Elk in Washington a few times near Packwood, never seeing an Elk, in the woods, during season.
He had never heard one bugle either, and said that if he got to hear one, it would be a successful trip as far as he was concerned.
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As we neared the area we planned to hunt, a cow and calf crossed the road ( Hwy 101) and I wondered if we should hunt a different gate than the one I had been hunting.
But decided that
we might as well stick with my plan, being to check my old familiar road (gated), as being with a 9 y/o and an inexperienced hunter, the pressure was on me to show them something.
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We began walking in the pre-dawn darkness, hoping for a clue as to which direction to follow (I had run into Elk on 2 different roads behind the gate)
but the silence went uninterrupted.
I chose to retrace the steps of my opening morning, and narrate my adventures in the process.
As we passed the spot that created my excitement on the opener, I blew on my “whistle” (I purchased one after my experience with Ed)
Not hearing any response, we continued on our way….
We were nearing the top of the small ridge the small road system was on and I was telling Michael about the clear-cuts there being the only ones around, and that I had seen some deer sign (tracks) and was hoping to see a deer in addition to any Elk, as we walked around the corner, there was a big old cow Elk standing on the side of the road about 50 yards away !!!
I quickly backed away, hoping I had not been seen, as Michael knelt to the ground hoping the Elk would come our way.
I and Michael’s son, Austin, walked back about 40 yards and I blew a few cow calls, hoping to draw the cow in our direction, past Michael.
After a significant amount of time had passed, with no indication of what was happening on the other side of hill, we returned to Michael who told us that the cow had crossed the road still about 45-50 yards away and had continued down into the woods.
He questioned himself on why he had not shot, as he was using a Mathews “Sidewinder” (whatever that is ) and had shot fine at targets beyond 60 yards, but I told him I would rather hear about him not taking a shot than hearing about a poor hit on such a magnificent animal.
I then blew on my “whistle”, immediately hearing a bugle in return from down the drainage, but the distance away, and degree of difficulty in the terrain, made me reluctant to pursue with a “newbie” and his 9 y/o son.
I tried calling to the bull, but as he had cows with him, and we were not pursuing him, we just bugled back and forth a few times, then I told Michael we might as well continue on our way.
They were both pretty excited now, telling me that it was “there best hunting trip ever”, as they had never seen anything, or heard an Elk before !!
I was happy, as I had promised them some action, even if I really had nothing much to do about seeing the Elk, other than picking the spot.
We continued our walk, and went to the spot I had called the bull in by bugling like an idiot.
Michael suggested I try it again, but with him hiding about 15 yards from where the Elk had materialised on me.
On my second call, a Bull bugled back !!
kind of ruined my rhythm, so I changed up to some excited cow calls and started breaking brush, simulating a bull “raking”
The Bull in the bottom SCREAMED at us, and we heard him coming up the hill toward us…
Then another bull bugled from the bottom of the hill, and the crashing in the brush abruptly changed direction, going away from our location.
I bugled, grunted, squealed, basically threw an Elk fit, but could only get the bull in the bottom to respond to my calls by bugling.
He was not going to come up the hill again.
I could understand why because there were at least 2 Bulls down there answering me, and he was not going to risk losing his cows.
Again the decision was to go somewhere else due to the depth of the drainage, and degree of difficulty (rookies and kids! )
I was pretty amazed at the amount of fresh elk crap on the roads, as there was no fresh sign on my previous visit a week prior.
We continued on our walk, kicking fresh Elk and Bear crap on the road (love it when it sticks to your boots ! )
As we walked along, we looked at beds, fresh rubs, and plenty of sign showing that Elk were in the area, and using the roads.
But were slightly disappointed that I was getting no response to any calling.
(although in my defense, I would have “set up” in a few spots and waited longer, but hard to do with a 9 y/o who cannot sit still)
We ended up back at the gate around 4:00 pm, and while we were there a couple trucks showed up, employees of Timber company going in to fuel a Helicopter, that was landing in the intersection of the road near the clear cuts.
We waited for them to come back out, to ask the pilot if/where he was seeing Elk.
But he wasn’t talking
So we walked up the other road that we had not taken that morning.
As we arrived at the top of the road (they all go up) I tried “whistling” into the drainage Ed and I had gotten the answer from on the afternoon he had to leave..
Gratefully, no answer.
So we began our walk down and out for the evening.
As we neared the area Tim and I had walked upon the herd of Elk, I blew a “whistle” into the drainage,..
A Bull responded almost immediately !
I “whistled” again, and not only did the first bull answer, but 2 more chimed in !!
Unfortunately they were too far away to go after them, but we decided to hit the next gate over, and hopefully find them in the morning.
We walked out in the fading light, listening to the bugling behind us as we dreamed of action in the morning…….
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As the alarm went off at 4:00, it was almost drowned out by the rain on the tent.
It was raining pretty hard as we got dressed and ate breakfast.
We got to the gate in a constant downpour, Michael said he was going to let Austin take a nap, and catch up to me later.
I began my lone walk up the road behind the gate, high expectations as this was the first rain in a long time and thinking the change would fire the Elk up.
But, after a mile in, Michael and Austin caught up to me (I am old and slow)
Daylight was long in coming in the deluge, and I still hoped for the best.
But after about 3 miles and little fresh sign, I questioned my decision to “chase the herd” into a new area.
We started getting into some fresh sign as my GPS said we had gone 3.75 miles, but both Michael and Austin were getting frustrated.
I told them “just a little further” but even though we got into an area where there was a rub about every 30 feet, they said that they had had enough.
Michael was s
ore, Austin was tired and bored, and no matter whether I used my “whistle” or bugle, nothing was answering.
I finally agreed to call it quits, and the long walk out was a little discouraging.
But still, I was told that it was still their best Elk hunting trip ever, and we discussed plans for next year.
Sad as I was, I felt good about my season.
5 days hunting, 4 branched antlered (legal) bulls and a cow within 40 yards for me,
a Bull at 25 for Ed,
2 Bulls at 50 and 15, and a cow at 20 for Tim,
a cow at 45 for Michael.
27 Elk sighted, plenty of answered bugles.
I also left out the stories of seeing 3 rabbits, 9 grouse and one lost arrow (at grouse)
A good time, and loads of berries.
New friends, and lots of fresh air and exercise.
Until next season (not sure yet what I am doing for late) I have memories.
gonna be in better shape, and have my goats to help pack next year.
I hope your season was as good (except maybe you got one !) and will let you know of any other adventures I get to have.
Planning on taking my family on a couple of fishing trips before the snow flies………
Here is hoping the sun is on your back, and the wind in your face….
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I live in roosey country. In fact they frequently visit our backyard:
I agree with others here that elk are elk and therefore the only real difference between roosies and their rocky mountain cousins is the habitat they live in. Also roosies don’t tend to migrate as much since they tend to be found in milder climates.
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I have found them to be frustrating in how long they take to come in to calls, seems like when I give up on a spot, I should have waited another minute.
Scouting is key, I hunt the same herds every year, they don’t move around as much as RM elk, if you find them (during season) they will usually be somewhere close every season.
If you “bump” them, they seem to run a short ways, them stop to see if you are dumb enough to try and follow them, instead of running into the next county.
I also have noticed that if you pay attention to the sword ferns you will see that they eat the tops off, when in an area where it looks like someone has been through there with a hedge trimmer and all the top 6″ are missing, you are in a good spot.
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