Points vs. random drawing hunts

[Idabow]

#6672

I was wondering what method of drawing your state uses for deciding hunts, a point system or just a random draw? Benefits that you see to either one? Thanks for your input.
Bill

[rayborbon]

#53853

We got a point system here. IMHO – I think parts of our system is lame. People with Max Points still cannot draw for elk,deer etc. Seems like the points system was based upon their odds going up having put in their time into the system and they would inevitably draw. The sale of the point system to the public was the typical government program which was partially flawed in such a way the end users feel like they are getting ramrodded. Specifically where it was sold one way and works not quite as good as advertised. We have a point system for deer, elk, spring bear, etc. They take your points and square them and put them into the pool for the draw. So if you go in with 6 points you get 36 chances in the pool.

Now the game dept is searching for more revenue so they decided to break it down even further. They are going to have a point system for quality deer hunts, doe hunts, cow elk hunts, quality elk hunts, etc. It’s all about revenue to them.

One thing about the system here is we do not have a cap on non residents. I think we should only permit them to have a cap of 10 percent of the draws.

[David Petersen]

#53859

Bill, this is one of the most difficult aspects of wildlife management and hunting even to think about. The easy answer is that CO uses points, and when they get too high with too many hunters holding points in the teens for a species, they add “weighted points.” I don’t like it. Rather than all point draws or all random draw, I think a combo would be best, as I believe AZ uses, where, say for example, 75% of annual tags go to the highest point holders, but the other quarter go to a random draw, so that everyone has a chance every year. Otherwise it becomes age related and younger hunters don’t have a prayer for many years. And here’s a closely related issue that almost no hunter ever considers: the more huntable habitat a state has and thus the more healthy the population, the more tags and longer seasons they can allow. It’s all gradually funneling down to easy (motorized and lots roads) access with low op (fewer tags and shorter seasons), vs. “restricted” access (good old-fashioned muscle-power) with far better ops and odds. It’s clear how modern hunting has been going … steep downhill at terminal velocity. As a group, we tend to be reactive rather than proactive, aka slow stubborn learners. Archery elk has gotten so crowded here in CO with a growing muzzleloader season smack in the middle of bow season, that most hunters I know join me in calling for more and more limited-draw areas (as opposed to over-counter unlimited tags). If we could miraculously totally eliminate all ORVs/ATVs beyond classified forest roads on public lands, we’d be amazed how quickly the odds to draw and success rates would rise. Sorry if that got off-topic, but your question is sort of an iceberg tip. I’ll be interested in hearing other’s experiences with and opinions on points vs. potluck draws. Dave

[rayborbon]

#53863

You can “regulate” the ORVs out but people still use them. There would not be enough Wardens to enforce that. The only way you win that is to tank trap the gates and have a good response from game wardens about complaints. They seldom pursue such complaints because they cannot gather substantial evidence for prosecution by “hearsay” “photos” and seem to need to catch them in the act. Most game wardens find it easier to make their bacon at game check stations as opposed to roaming the back country and understandably so. I don’t like ORVs in the middle of my hunt so I hit the wilderness or travel where they can’t.

[purehunter]

#54628

Like’em both. I use points to try to get a premium tag, then use the “random” or “over-the-counter” to get A tag. It affords at least a chance of getting a tag every year.

California uses both systems for big game. Black bear is over-the-counter. I’ll be trying to hunt Colorado and Idaho elk this year because of both systems.

I’ll leave the OHV thing for another time. But, I do what Ray does, I go where they can’t travel. But I do that with other hunters too. I try to go where most won’t.

Happy Hunting,

Purehunter

[Idabow]

#55103

Thanks to all who have and will continue to post on this topic. I must say that this topic was brought up on another site and it quickly got ugly. Once again, I’m sure glad to be here on Tradbow!
Here in Idaho we use the “random” method for hunting tags (no points). It seems to work fine but I have been accruing points in Utah for Elk and do see light at the end of the tunnel, something that some random hunts here in Idaho don’t offer. Like Dave said, this is just the tip of the iceberg as so many variables come into play and effect the different methods of drawing.
Bill

[hawg]

#30797

I do not like points. I don’t believe they work. but I also think it has become the 800 pound gorilla with no easy way out.

just spin the wheel, if someone gets a lucky break so be it. I can live with some realistic waiting periods as a control method but just spin the wheel

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