PLAYIN' 'ROUND W/FOC

[mhay]

#2654

I stumbled onto Dr. Ashby’s reports last summer . I think I read most , if not all of it . Found it to be some very interesting information .

At that time and during all my years of shooting recurves I was guilty of using the ”ALL TOO OFTEN FLIMSY”,,,,throw away,,,broadheads . And to be honest , I didn’t know about the wide range of 2 and 3 blade heads available until I stumbled onto the 3 Rivers website.

Since jioning this site I have spent most of my online time reading the post on ”FRIENDS OF FOC”. I read somewhere in this treasure where a member raised his front end weight by installing a .243/100gr. bullet inside the shaft . That got my small and loose COGS to grinding and I lit out for the shop . Found a piece of 2216 shaft and went to the reloading cabinet. Measured the I.D. of shaft and found a .308 / 150gr. jacketed bullet which slid in nicely .

Fired up the alcohol burner and pulled the insert from one of my ”HAMMER” stumpin’ arrows . Heated the bullet and shaft and hot melt glued it inside. Re-installed the insert and chilled in cold water .

Arrow was 688 grain ,,,now 838 grain . Shooting the 45#@ 28” Grizzly , with my 30.750” draw.

Out to 20 yards very little difference in drop . But a drammatic change in the sound of the bow and the awesome ”THUMP” when it struck the ground . The ‘Hammer’ is nearly 5/8ths inch across the face , yet the added weight caused the arrow to bury into the ground more than skip and flip on the sod . I started shooting at my aluminum foil balls that I have scatterd around . I had to stop that in short order ,,,,one hit and the ball was nearly ruined .

I am tickled with this knowledge of FOC and heavy arrows .The arrow of 838 grains with 400 grains on the businesss end ,,,shooting perfectly out of a 45 # bow just makes me giddy.

After shooting a while I pulled out the 150 grain bullet . Though I am impressed with the test I haven’t yet decided to do all my arrows .I know ,,,It’s a lot of words to say something most if not all of you already know . Well , occasionally I get excited ’bout somethin’.

[David Petersen]

#11865

Hi Mhay — That sounds like a fun experiment you conducted there and no good reason not to use it for hunting. But of course I have a couple of “howevers” to offer for your consideration. First, you don’t really need 838 grain arrows for anything in N.A. except maybe bison. My goal for elk arrows is around 750 and they range from just over 700 to just over 800. So while it doesn’t hurt to shoot excessively heavy arrows within typical trad bow range, neither does it hurt to get the arrows some lighter in order to up the FOC, which you don’t mention in your post. In sum: 650 total weight is what Ashby’s research shows as a bottom line to radically increase chances of shooting through heavy bone and still having enough umph left to get enough penetration for a clean kill (assuming of course a sturdy broadhead). Beyond that, unless you’re going after bison, you’ll probably gain more penetration by upping FOC rather than overall weight. And you do that with a light shaft and heavy head. My second “however” is that while your bullet internal is really clever, I always encourage folks to get the front weight with heavy broadheads and internals. Why use flimsy aluminum internals (screw-in adaptors and inserts) and a light flimsy broadhead then have to insert lead or such to gain front-end weight? IMHO the most lethal and toughest and best designed head around today is the Tuffhead, which you can buy up to 300 as a glue-on. There are other heavy heads too. With brass or steel screw-in adapters and/or brass or steel inserts, you can get way more weight than you’ll ever need up front while at the same time greatly strengthening this most vulnerable part of a shaft: where head connects to shaft. Unfortunately anything but alum inserts for alum shafts are hard to find and only then in a couple of sizes. IMHO ..

[mhay]

#12193

Mr Petersen,,,thank you for your post . I understand what you are saying . I was merely PLAYING with FOC .

I was some what taken back by the marginal increase in FOC by installing the 150 grains . Slightly over 20 % . ???????

At any rate , I am very pleased with the results of the test and the results from the original arrow .

In my estimation , when an arrow leaves the bow at 12 -14 yards and zips thru a mature deer in the vitals and it doesn’t know what happened ,,,to the point it just stands around looking in all directions ,,,I think that is pretty close to perfect. Never seen that with the TRASH broadheads I used in the past .

The aluminum inserts in my arrows do trouble me . Just knowing that it is the weak link in the system is very aggravating. I suppose I will have to fire up the metal lathe and turn out some steel to fix the problem .

My present arrow is as follows :

full length 2216 Legacy =31.750”

5.5” shield cut feathers

bohning classic index nocks

standard aluminum inserts

125grain steel broadhead adapter

125grain Ace Standard broadhead

total weight = 688grains

FOC =19.11%

They shoot like darts from the 45# @ 28” Grizzly,,,55# @28” Jeffery,,,45# @28”Super Kodiak. Draw length is 30.750”

Slow ,,,very slow ,,,,,,but quiet ,quiet .

I do appreciate your post ,

Mark

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