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AGAIN, IM NEW TO THIS TRADITIONAL WORLD OF ARCHERY AND I HAVE A GREAT SHOOTING RECURVE,(CHECKMATE HUNTER II T/D) BUT BEING A “MAN” I LIKE TO GO AND CHECK OUT THE NEW BOWS. I HAVE LOOKED AT BLACK WIDOWS AND ACADIAN BOWS TO NAME A FEW AND THESE CAN BE WELL OVER $1000. THE BOW IM SHOOTING NEW IS AROUND $500. I AM A BELIEVER IN “YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR” BUT DO THESE BOWS REALLY OUT PERFORM THE LOWER PRICED BOWS OR WOULD YOU JUST BE PAYING FOR THE NAME. IVE NOTICED FROM THE MAGAZINE SEVERAL SHOOT BLACK WIDOWS AND WOULD LOVE TO KNOW IN CASE I TAKE THE PLUNGE AND BUY ANOTHER ONE DAY.
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Msarcher
Often a little time and patience can help with optimising any bow no matter how much it cost, Hiram put up a good post on tuning well worth squeezing all you can from your existing bow before you buy another.
One thing you can guarantee a more expensive bow will not help you unless you do your part.
All that said I’m a sucker for a nicely made bow, pick one up and the balance is just right, she feels good at full draw (bows are always ladies) and there is no hand shock, that arrow just appears where you were looking it don’t matter how much they are.
Guess that doesn’t help much, Mark.
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Howdy,
it’s the same as most things in life. Generally, the more you spend the better. BUT, twice the price isn’t twice as good. As quality increases, approaching the best, the price increases exponentially. Ever so slight improvements can cause a substantial price hike. BUT (yep, another but), you must also consider how much of the price is aesthetics vs how much is performance. Hope this helps…at least a little tiny bit.
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What Patrick said! My own personal experience is that BW is a superb bow … but several other models at more or less half the price are as good or better from a purely practical point of view … for me. As P subtly suggests, there are so many superb trad bowmakers out there today that judging one top-end from another based on physical performance alone becomes impossible in any meaningful way, since how a bow “fits” a particular shooter is such a personal thing. So here kicks in either “I want the same bow all those other guys are raving about,” and/or “I can afford to pay extra for 458 varieties of gorgeous exotic woods all packed into a single great-shooting bow.” If money is a consideration, you don’t need a BW. If money is no object and you’re in love with the way BW’s look, well they shoot as good as they look! That’s a sloppy answer, just saying that I agree with Patrick here. For what it’s worth, I currently own two near-twin Shrews. One close hunting buddy owns two twin BW’s, while another owns one Shrew and a Bear. They’re all great bows and great looking. We’re talking art and personal preference here! But DON’T make the mistake of overlooking lower priced bows simply because they’re lower priced. Yes, we get what we pay for. But in these times, far too often, we pay for a lot we really don’t need. “Need vs want” is a tough one and has to be a personal call. Geeze, did I get carried away with that or what? 😀 dave
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I think Dave said it all. But I will add the old cliche. “Beware of the man who only owns one ‘gun’, chances are he knows how to us it”. We see and hear so many people buying the smoothest, quickest, quietness bows known to man, and a few month later they’re on the Internet classifieds. I shot a 3D round with a gentleman at Compton’s a few years ago, who shot basically a 40 dollar Shakepeare Recurve (when it was new). But I’ll tell you what, he kept that bow in pristine condition, and I bet he could have given anyone at the rendezvous a run for their money in a shoot off. Bottom line a good bow doesn’t make a good shooter, but a good archer can shoot any bow well.
Me.. I like the aesthtics of art, and superb craftsman. What I tell all my students in hunter education.. when it comes to equipment, always buy the best you can afford, it may save your life.
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I am a big believer of going somewhere where you can shoot several differnt bows and try them out. We have several places in Colorado to do just that. I like to attend the Colorado Traditional Archers Society shoot each summer. Several bowyers attend as well as several traditional tackle dealers. It’s a great place to try out many new and used bows. The Colorado Bowhunters Association also holds a big shoot during the summer. There is also a nice traditional shop in the Denver area called Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear and they stock well over 100 longbows and recurves, both new and used. You can try before you buy and also get some good advice. So hopefully you have some opportunities to shoot some bows near where you live and make up your own mind whether the “big names” are worth the “big bucks.”
Mike
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I am usually not much into Corvette bows. Some time ago I decided to take a lap with a then (18 months ago) 450 dollar take down bow made by Ernie McKenzie (then out of Lolo,MT). I believe they are 550 now.. Ernie makes a fine bow. As smooth shooting and fast as anything I will ever need from a bow. http://sapphirearchery.com He is highly recommended from me in the realm of good performance bows.
I believe you can get a real fine bow for less than 750. If it’s too fancy you might not want to use it in the woods because you’ll fear cosmetic injury.
Shop around.
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In terms of longbows, I have tried many of them. Then one day, I tried a Brackenbury Quest recurve, it was set at 63″ @28″ and it immediately made me smile. By that I mean smile in capital letters. About a year before, I had owned a BW recurve, it was nice, the draw was smooth but to my surprise, Bill Howland had something special. Not only was his design simple but his craftsmanship is incredible. So after explaining the cold weather issues I was hunting in, he made me a bow that fit my circumstances, remaining accessible 7 days a week. And in the back of my mind, I was wondering what the Non-Typical longbow design hype was all about. So I ordered one.
This take down lonbow is so much in a class of its own, the feel of the riser in your hand is next to none, the draw is so smooth and there is Zero hand shock. What is so special with that bow is the manner it casts out these heavy arrows, you have to see it to believe it. Now as it pertains to the Non Typical, it still makes me smile today.
Is the non-typical longbow worth the money Bill charges for it, my answer is absolutely and more.
Do they shoot as good as they look, my answer is yes. Are they worth the wait, again, absolutely.
With that being said, as long as you are satisfied with the bow your shooting, that is all that counts. The post I wrote is based on my opinion and all the bowyers I have spoken too in my lifetime were and still are class acts, Bill Howland is one of these.
SB
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SB, I was wondering what in the world you were talking about when refering to the “non-typical longbow”! The wording gave me the impression you were refering to a specific bow. However, I thought you were using “non-typical” as a general term for bows that are, well, not your typical, run-of-mill bow. I was quite puzzled. That is, until I visited http://www.brackenburybows.com. THEN it all made sense.:lol:
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I’m literally surrounded by Black Widows where I live. 5 of my friends shoot widow longbows or recurves.
I think it is more of a pride thing. I will admit that the Widows seem to be faster and have more kinetic energy than most bows I’ve seen and shot.
I would personally never pay more than $350 for a bow.
Honestly, I think the Check Mate’s are damn nice bows. I don’t think you are going to be moving “Up” in quality by any means.
My next bow is going to be a Mad Dog Mutt from http://www.maddogarchery.com
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Patrick, increasingly you’re a hoot! So good to have you here — without humor, we are sunk for sure. 😆
Limblover — Boy is this good news! Those Maddog bows are really priced right and I love the idea — admitting openly –of making a commercial custom bow “from scraps of other bows.” Way cool! 8) It seems almost weekly someone comes on here and says he’d like to take up traditional but doesn’t have $1200 for a bow and what’s the most he can get for the least money? I’ve always pointed to the excellent and reliable Great Northern Field Bow, dirt cheap for the quality but tops out at 45#. Now here’s one in that price range that goes to #55! All we need now to become Maddog fans is a couple of honest bow-performance and customer-service reports from experienced shooters — folks like you who have shot lots of bows and thus know good from bad from mediocre. Having built a bunch of bows myself I don’t understand how anyone can build and sell a bow that cheap and still make a profit. Must be love,not money! 😀 More power! snuffs
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Like I have told everyone on youtube that has asked I have 5 bows, ones that were free, ones that were in the 500 dollar price range. And yet my favorite is a 200 dollar take down by greatree. And my second is a 50 dollar shakespeare from a yardsale. So I would say that black widows are generally costly because of there name? I am sure a ton on here would object, but that is just my opinion. There are so many other options out there. And I just like a practical bow over something I dont want to scratch up in the woods!
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Snuffy wrote: Limblover — Boy is this good news! Those Maddog bows are really priced right and I love the idea — admitting openly –of making a commercial custom bow “from scraps of other bows.” Way cool! 8) It seems almost weekly someone comes on here and says he’d like to take up traditional but doesn’t have $1200 for a bow and what’s the most he can get for the least money? I’ve always pointed to the excellent and reliable Great Northern Field Bow, dirt cheap for the quality but tops out at 45#. Now here’s one in that price range that goes to #55! All we need now to become Maddog fans is a couple of honest bow-performance and customer-service reports from experienced shooters — folks like you who have shot lots of bows and thus know good from bad from mediocre. Having built a bunch of bows myself I don’t understand how anyone can build and sell a bow that cheap and still make a profit. Must be love,not money! 😀 More power! snuffs
LOL, well I’ll do the best I can. I have only been shooting since May but I’ve seen, tried, and talked bows with a little of people. I’m hoping to get a lot of trials at that Kalamazoo show here in January.
Pickings are slim locally unless someone already owns one.
From what I have heard from Tradgang and Leatherwall, Mike (from Maddog) is a great guy and has incredible customer service. I’ve heard nothing but good things about his youth bows but I haven’t heard anything about the Mutt yet. Price is right though. If I can unload a guitar – I’m ordering one asap.
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BWs and other top name bows along with Cheks, madog and a ton of other bows are all good bows. The selling price of a bow works the same as most other things- the more you spend on marketing, websites, advertising magazines, tv sponsorships etc are all costs that must be passed on to the consumer. the more emplloyees you have well the more cost and liabilities go up. as well ther eis a certain snob factor to all bows , whether they cost 300 or 3000. So the brand name, much like designer jeans, shirts or dresses etc. can add a significant cost difference of a product, bows are not immune to this.
A few years ago, I’m a land surveyor and engineer, I lost a project because my rate was 20 % percent less than a competitor. They felt I was going to give a lesser proct becaus eof my price quote. So I raised my rates 25%, got the next project from them and am busier than ever.
market right, provide a good product and service and your serives are worth what people are willing to pay. same with bows
I shoot an H2 and befoe that I shot a kings pawn deuxe
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msarcher,
I’ve owned three Chek-Mate Hunter II recurves. All of them were outstanding and well worth far above their retail price. As a matter of fact, my second H2 is still my main backup bow.
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BW and a few other co’s have trial “test drive” programs listed on their sites which is a great deal. Now if only high mile pickup trucks increased in value like a 60 something Bear takedown…..:lol:
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I purchased a custom bow and paid over $1000 for it. It is the best looking bow I own, and the finest made and the fastest, and the smoothest etc but I cant hit anything with it. I dont know why and it has nothing to do with the bow or how it was made but the fact remains it now sits in a corner and it is nice to look at. The bow I shoot the best is a 1972 Bear Super Magnum 48 probably the single most despised bow as a far as shootability so go figure. I personally will never buy another custom bow until I can shoot it a lot.
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Don’t get hung up on what a particular bow costs; either high OR low. Just because a bow is “expensive” doesn’t mean that it is not worth the price asked. Every bow offers uniques characteristics that may or may not be what any particular shooter is lookin for. In particular, Black Widow bows have been around since the 50’s I believe and so there is a piece of history there. I have several top quality bows from Mark Horne and I just ordered a BW PSAX; not because I can’t harvest game with my other bows, but because I have considered the BW takedown to be the pinultimate bow since I started shooting traditional bows in 1993. At that time I couldn’t afford one but now I can so I am buying my “dream bow” and it is well worth the price to me.
So, really the price; high or low, should be of secondary consideration. Shoot what feels right, not only in your hands, but also in your heart. After all, as we all know, shooting traditional archery is a passion, not a sport.
Shawnee
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Shoot what you can afford. There are some great buys in used bows out there and with today’s advanced materials, adhesives etc, some of the less expensive bows on the market are great values. I recently purchased a new Predator and I am thrilled with the quality and workmanship on the Bacote riser and matching limbs but my Samick Volcano shoots just as well and is actually lighter because it is not a take down. Bottom line is you don’t have to spend a lot of money on a bow. Just depends on your personal preference.
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http://www.bamabows.com/hunter.html
Just found this web site. I know nothing about the bows but looks like a good price. -
Not unlike racoons, we seem to be attracted to shiny things. Once they start to lose their luster, we become disenchanted and begin looking for the next shiny thing. That can work to your benefit as lots of guys think nothing of dropping $1000 on a bow, only to sell it a year later for half that in an effort to pay for the next shiny thing. Get around to the big shows and look and shoot the various bows by different makers. See what bow shoots and suits you best, and then keep an eye on the classified ads on the traditional archery web sites for a good deal.
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i dont have a black widow i wish i did. but i think ur mainly paying for a name. i got a martin savannah and i love it.
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Since we’re talking of bows does anyone have anything to say about Bob Lee Bows?. I’ve been considering a new bow. I have a Bear Grizzly and a Jefferies Royal Hunter. I like the Jefferies better but have been tossing around te idea of a Bob Lee.
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I don’t claim to know much about nothing… With that being said there is alot of truth to getting what you pay for and i am a very adamant believer in this saying, but in the past i have been proven wrong in just the opposite. i shoot sporting clays and trap with some top of the line shotguns that i have purchased i the belief that you get what you pay for. those big name shotguns miss just as good as those of the rack guns. i belive this is true with most other things in “our” line of hobbies. in the end it might only matter to who you shoot with or your own personal preference. i beleive its the person behind the equipment and thier techniques. not just the equipment.:wink:
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Well, first you have to understand the terminology in it’s proper context. “You get what you pay for.” Absolutely. But, it doesn’t mean you get the best. If you want a Black Widow, you pay around $900.00, so if they send you the bow, you got what you paid for.
Now, in the context of what it will do for you functionally, in the deer woods, another question arises; did you get anymore than they guy across the hollow who bought a used Bear Grizzly for $60.00. The answer is no….you did not.
I have a friend who owns a Gibson, Custom Shop Les Paul, he paid $2700.00 for…plus shipping 8^). I have a Gretsch Pro Jet that I paid $480.00 for. We both have gigged with these guitars and there is literally no difference in the durabilty, or the quality of sound of these well made guitars. We both got what we paid for, but he did not really get any more than I did. If he sells his guitar, he will probably take a thirty percent or more hit on the price, and so will I. ???????
Fact is you do get what you paid for, and you don’t get what you paid for….the relevance is between your ears mostly, and what you want your buddies to think. My friends know I’ll be coming to the shoot with a used bow of some sort, that cost me less than $200.00 in most cases. They also know they will have a tough time shooting better than me anytime…regardless of bow.
We have become a designer society and you have to pick your poison within the social structure 8^)))). Frankly, you are no better or no worse if you buy a $2000.00 bow than the guy who shoots that cheapie very well. There is a satisfaction in owning the so-called “best” in anything, so perhaps that is a draw, but functionally there is little to discuss and all comes down to the guy behind the curtain.
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Well shucks, this could be one of those “goes around, comes around” deals. These days, many hunting-industry outfits get big names fast by buying them via heavy advertising … just look at the filthy unethical garbage being hawked to gullible hi-tech wannabe hunters by the commercial hunting media! (TBM admirably excepted, which is a primary reason I won’t write any more for any of the others.) But here in the trad world, while advertising goes a long way to establish name recognition, etc., trad bowyers and others (arrow makers, etc.) generally have to prove over many years that they have a good product and good service, worth the asking price. The downside of this scenario is that once a manufacturer — of bows or whatever — establishes a trusted name among us tradsters, it can then turn back against us with higher prices or lower quality or both. This generally only happens when a company changes hands (and not always then by any stretch; just sometimes). A lot of the selling price of any successful businesses is “good will,” aka a known and trusted name in the marketplace. I have owned several top-end custom bows in recent years, including a BW, and all were excellent bows, price aside.(Though in MHO, the very best of them all is among the least expensive). So the question, seems to me, isn’t whether you “get what you pay for” with custom tradbows, but rather, “how much would you like to pay for an excellent bow, and how important is brand-name to your personal satisfaction?” What a blessing to live in a time with so very many excellent stickbows available that we get confused among them! My best advice is to go with a Ma-and-Paw custom shop, which most often produce bows that leave me wondering: “How the hell can he/they make a bow of this quality for this price?” Perhaps this sort of insight requires building a few bows yourself! That experience sure opened my eyes. As always, there’s no replacement for actually shooting the bow you’re thinking of buying. This is a primary service of tradbow gatherings, whether banquets, shoots and tradshops.
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I tried to reply at least 5 times, and each time it was about as long as Dave’s! AND each time the site timed out on me!!! :twisted::twisted::twisted:
I must say that it all worked out in the end because Dave said it better than I did.
I need to rest now.
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Patrick wrote: [quote=LimbLover]I’m literally surrounded by Black Widows where I live. 5 of my friends shoot widow longbows or recurves.
Dang, I don’t even personally know 5 people who shoot traditional!
Patrick, Get invovled with local or regional 3d shoots. I meet a guy recently saying the same thing. I took him to our local shoot and he saw 5 men he worked with, 3 0f them stick shooters. On a visit to Chas,S.C. the same thing from my friend. As we watched workers put in new gate, I saw bow decals on a truck. A little conversation and he now has a hunt club membership with Tradional shooters within 20 miles of his home. HUNT FOR THEM!!! They are there. Traditional people tend to be loners. Stalk them like you would a deer. They can be behind every bush. On the actual post question, I have shot for over 50 years and as of yet can’t outshoot any properly made bow of any price. I try to get new people to just get a Martin X200 and will bet most can’t outshoot that bargin basemebt bow. After a few years then step up. If you learned to love it get any bow you can afford. -
Many times we get enamored with expensive things, be it bows, guns or cars….it’s human nature I believe. Yet when looking to the functional side of things, price normally has little to do with output. Not always, but mostly.
I’ve stood at the shooting line on many occasions and watched guys cussing because that $#%# bow wouldn’t shoot for them, even though they spent a months wages on it. Three guys down the line is a 65 year old shooting an old Wing Thunderbird from 1968 and he is tearing up the 3D targets up to forty five yards away.
A lot of things go into the price of a recurve bow; reputation, acceptance, advertising, and customer loyalty can all effect it and drive prices up. The Black Widow for instance is a beautiful bow that shoots great; it will shoot all the arrows in the center of the target if the shooter is good enough to accommodate it in that task. Yet that 1968 Wing Thunderbird will do the same….it’s the shooter who makes the difference.
The value one puts on any object is partly subjective and relative to what they perceive as, good…better…best. Some folks are so into peer pressure that they wouldn’t be caught dead without a thousand dollar takedown in their hand, and designer wool on their body. Some folks just love a certain brand of bow…..they shoot it well, and don’t give a rat’s patoot how much it costs.
Rather than get opinions from others….which as you see is pretty fruitless….you need to spend a summer going to several different get-togethers where traditional bows can be taken to the target. Denton Hill is a great place to do that, as is Compton’s Rendezvous, and several others. What you will find is most bows will shoot very well, but you may find one that talks to you…and that is the one you want. It may well be a thousand dollar (or more) model, or it may be a used 1960’s model hanging on a rack.
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