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    • paleoman
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        Post count: 931

        My “paleo” handle means not much other than I’d love to be in on an archaeological dig of these places. Just read my little hometown may hold the most significant Paleo site E of the Mississippi! I’m grounded in hardcore realities, but it sure is fun entertaining myself with the connection. Just kinda cool so thought I’d share.

      • Doc Nock
          Post count: 1150

          You might enjoy a new novel by Tom Kidwell. It’s entitled, A Certain Superstition.

          It is a wonderful spell binding tale of a broker turned professor and archeological search in the SW mountain of Native American existence. Amidst it all, he is visited by spirit of ancient lore of a particular tribe.

          I loved reading a draft! I believe it’s on Barnes and Nobel site.

        • 1shot
            Post count: 252

            Very Cool, do you hunt for arrowheads??? Does the site have a name??? I know people that could get info on it that probably wont be made public… The oldest arrowhead I’ve found was a Kessel(NY) 9000-10,000 years old (No Clovis, Yet)… Finding arrowheads has been a life-long hobby of mine, between hunting critters that is. Here in Arizona it is illegal to remove artifacts, but that doesnt stop me from looking and finding NA camp sites while I’m either bow hunting or scouting(shed hunting), just to sit amoung the remains is enough for me…

            Note: Found sites are GPS marked and reported with no disturbance by me…

          • David Petersen
            Member
              Post count: 2749

              Paleo– The story of the spear point I found early in the hunting season and posted a pic of here, continues to unfold in interesting ways. First opinions from the pros are that it’s either Plainview, around 10,000 years old, or–Clovis! That would put it much older yet. In either case it could be the oldest point ever found in these parts. It’s on it’s way to the U. of NM for examination by the leading expert on stone points in the SW. Now, every time I pass that spot I can’t help but circle around for a while looking for the rest of it. But the standard situation with spear points is that the broken off points are found in hunting areas, and the rest, which tends to stay attached to the spear and so is retrieved by the hunters, are found in camping areas and generally have been reworked into another tool. It’s one thing to “know” that hunters thousands of years ago covered the same terrain that I’m covering now … but an entirely more real and personal feeling to have found evidence that you can hold in your hand of their hunting here, which makes their spirits so virtually palpable that I can almost see them at times, wispy shadows slipping through the dark woods. I could spend eternity like that, the happy hunting grounds.

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            • paleoman
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                Post count: 931

                The cool thing @ it is I still hunt just a few miles away. You can still immerse yourself in some nicely wild land and delude yourself not much has changed in several thousand years. The old family farm, gone since ’84 was on prime river bottom/uplands where my grandfather had collected shoeboxes full of artifacts. That kind of connection to the dirt and richness of history and place, well I wouldn’t trade it for a truckload of damn IPhones:wink:

              • paleoman
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                  Post count: 931

                  David Petersen wrote: Paleo– The story of the spear point I found early in the hunting season and posted a pic of here, continues to unfold in interesting ways. First opinions from the pros are that it’s either Plainview, around 10,000 years old, or–Clovis! That would put it much older yet. In either case it could be the oldest point ever found in these parts. It’s on it’s way to the U. of NM for examination by the leading expert on stone points in the SW. Now, every time I pass that spot I can’t help but circle around for a while looking for the rest of it. But the standard situation with spear points is that the broken off points are found in hunting areas, and the rest, which tends to stay attached to the spear and so is retrieved by the hunters, are found in camping areas and generally have been reworked into another tool. It’s one thing to “know” that hunters thousands of years ago covered the same terrain that I’m covering now … but an entirely more real and personal feeling to have found evidence that you can hold in your hand of their hunting here, which makes their spirits so virtually palpable that I can almost see them at times, wispy shadows slipping through the dark woods. I could spend eternity like that, the happy hunting grounds.

                  Dave – the way you wrapped up your post…nicely done. Funny how the guy that made that just dropped off into eternity ages ago, yet it seems like a moment ago. It’s probably the endurance of stone, but I get a moment of hope on the rare ocassion time stands still and I feel something more in the silent voice of those stones.

                • Doc Nock
                    Post count: 1150

                    Both those last posts are poetic in their own right! Reading them makes my heart soar like a hawk!

                  • Bruce Smithhammer
                      Post count: 2514

                      paleoman wrote: That kind of connection to the dirt and richness of history and place, well I wouldn’t trade it for a truckload of damn IPhones:wink:

                      Thanks for the new sig. 😉

                    • paleoman
                      Member
                      Member
                        Post count: 931

                        Smithhammer wrote: [quote=paleoman]That kind of connection to the dirt and richness of history and place, well I wouldn’t trade it for a truckload of damn IPhones:wink:

                        Thanks for the new sig. 😉

                        Wow. I’m glad you liked it that much.

                      • Troy Warner
                          Post count: 239

                          Doc Nock wrote: Both those last posts are poetic in their own right! Reading them makes my heart soar like a hawk!

                          I agree, They both seem to have a way of expressing their feelings and thoughts, with words, that just catch you where it counts.

                          Although Palio may try to deny it, and Dave, well it is one of the reasons I read his books.

                        • 1shot
                            Post count: 252

                            Very cool David… Not to be a nay-sayer, but… It is very hard to type a point by just it’s tip, to type as Clovis is alittle “easyer” because of it’s thicker cross-section shape(not all Clovis have a flute), your expert will have to rely on manufacturing process, workmanship, grade of material,etc which is subject to opinion…

                            Either way, It is an awesome find, and knowing there are artifacts beneath our feet from the ancient past does hold a special place in the hearts of hunters, more so in Trad hunters I believe because of what we do…

                          • Ralph
                            Moderator
                              Post count: 2580

                              I happen to hunt a ranch that’s within 20 miles of the Alibates Flint Quarry. There’s all kinds of goodies around like the metates in another thread. Lots of broken artifacts and such too. I love finding ancient tools and trying to figure out what for and how they were used. Stumping on the ranch, !0,000 acres bordering the Canadian River and in the breaks on either side, and looking for goodies makes a fun day.

                              It’s also amazing how many “modern” artifacts I find leftover from the oil boom days (the ranch is a hop, skip and jump from Borger, Tx., one of the rougher boom towns back in the day). How many years have beeni weenis been around?:lol: I did find an old Dr. Pepper 10-2-4 bottle one day.

                            • David Petersen
                              Member
                                Post count: 2749

                                1shot — you are right about it being tough to ID a head by the point without the base. And this one will be even tougher since another ID of Clovis besides the fluted base is over-shot flaking, which is common to Clovis and no other type, yet like fluting not absolute. This head has what I would call semi-over-shot flaking! Here’s a cross-section of the broken base:

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                              • Goraidh
                                  Post count: 101

                                  This is a great post and on a wonderful site. Thank you guys for always making my day.

                                • tailfeather
                                    Post count: 417

                                    That’s too cool, Paleo. A guy in the adjoining county found a fantastic Clovis point a few weeks ago. Just the worked edge was showing in the sand of a small creek. The man who made that point surely saw mammoths and other ice age megafauna.

                                    I know I’ve mentioned it before (but it fascinates me so I’ll blabber on some more even if you’ve heard it:lol:) but we have found a fair number of artifacts on our little farm. The area where I find most of them is classically situated for a village or camp location. A point of high ground on a bluff above a major creek with a small tributary to the west. Near endless creek swamp (still loaded with game) on the east and west, and sunny uplands stretching away to the south.

                                    I have found intact projectile points (Bolen Bevel) dating to the early Archaic (7,000-10,000 bp), as well as at least four different pottery types belonging to three different cultures, some as recently as contact era. In other words, the area has been used by different peoples over many thousands of years as both hunting grounds and as a village/seasonal camp. My family’s history on the land is a mere blink in comparison, but a history and a connection nonetheless. But it is incredible to hold a tool crafted by someone who lived, hunted, loved, and possibly died on the same ground I’m so attached to. I sometimes just sit there and imagine what it looked like, and try to smell the campfires.

                                    Here’s a few pics of pottery, points, and flake knives, etc.

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                                  • Doc Nock
                                      Post count: 1150

                                      You guys ROCK with your rocks!:lol:

                                    • Col Mike
                                      Member
                                        Post count: 911

                                        It appears that with our new join, 1shot, we have another Pleistocene resident born 20k to late. Check out this link that Dave sent me some time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLV9A8P00bw . Tailfeather you will note from the maps that your location as well as mine may be the home of the oldest inhabitants of our land.

                                        Enjoy

                                        Mike

                                      • 1shot
                                          Post count: 252

                                          The solutrean/Clovis connection is very interesting, and fodder for many discussions, maybe when there is more underwater archy studies, the dates of human habitation in north America will be pushed back even earlyer…

                                          I could go on for days about this, and other subjects of the “first’ Americans…

                                          To me, a very interesting subject…

                                        • Ralph
                                          Moderator
                                            Post count: 2580

                                            When I found my stump shot arrow today, an older ones work lay with it. Broken but good find.

                                          • Ralph
                                            Moderator
                                              Post count: 2580

                                              I like to find tools like this one. Not sure what it was used for. We have several similar.

                                              It’s about 7″x4″.

                                            • paleoman
                                              Member
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                                                Post count: 931

                                                The bottom one a hoe blade??? Would love to find things more often, but kinda coincides w kidney stones…once a decade or so.

                                              • Ralph
                                                Moderator
                                                  Post count: 2580

                                                  It’s just different angles of the same tool. I think maybe it was a hoe type tool myself but I’m not sure.

                                                • Doc Nock
                                                    Post count: 1150

                                                    I found what I thought was a perfect “war club” head. had a notch for a handle, notches for sinew to hold it on…but was rounded on the tapered end like the clubs you’d see in “movies”.

                                                    Prof I knew at the local university was really into Native American artifacts–especially our local PA ones.

                                                    He contracted cancer from smoking. I went to visit often and he showed me his collection. Next visit, I took this “artifact” I’d had for years to show him…

                                                    He looked it over carefully, looked at me and announced it was an Indian Sex Stone… 😯

                                                    Of course, I bit and he about fell outa his bed laughin when he laid the punch line on me…

                                                    A —-in Rock, was his verdict!:roll:

                                                    It has to be so cool to find things like you guys do that are truly artifacts!

                                                  • 1shot
                                                      Post count: 252

                                                      hehhe DocNock… Alot of rocks look to be “man made”, nice to see the good prof has a sense of humor…

                                                      I just found alittle arrowhead at a friends place here in AZ, in a wash(seasonal stream), neat little Barreal 9000-7200BP with an impact tip fracture, which means it either hit bone or missed and dinged the tip…

                                                    • Doc Nock
                                                        Post count: 1150

                                                        I’m glad you got a chuckle…at the time, I was ready to drop my face that this big ole bear of a man, turned to skin and bone by cancer, popped that Big One out at me, a student, albeit, a much older than traditional student at that time! 😯

                                                        Later, I did have to laugh… and finally threw away my War Club head……I’d even gone so far when much younger as to find a stout stick once and wrapped it on with twine… I was sooo sure! Would have made a good prop for a Halloween Costume! 🙁

                                                        You guys are into your rocks when you can date your stuff you find! Dang! I’m impressed…but hey, that’s coming from a guy who collected Indian Sex Stones…:roll:

                                                      • 1shot
                                                          Post count: 252

                                                          That may be a “Chopper” R2….

                                                          I have an identification guide, makes it alittle easyer DocNock hehehe, but even it is not infallable…

                                                          Barreal point, 1inch long, looks to made of pet.wood…

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                                                        • Doc Nock
                                                            Post count: 1150

                                                            You guys ROCK! (no pun intended!) 🙄

                                                            Seriously, this is one impressive thread! Only on TB!!!8)

                                                          • Ralph
                                                            Moderator
                                                              Post count: 2580

                                                              I’m having fun with this one too. I’ve been gathering stuff for a long, long time 😀 This a fossilized bone from something. About 8″ long and 4 1/2″ at widest point.

                                                              Interesting piece of petrified wood. Just smooth as glass. We think it might have been used in the animal hide working process. It’s about 5″x7″ and 1 3/4″ thick. I found both of these within 50 yds. of each other a couple of years ago. I have a big place to look for goodies whilst chasing stump shot arrows. When hunting too.

                                                            • David Petersen
                                                              Member
                                                                Post count: 2749

                                                                1shot — Now that’s a truly primitive head. Either it’s super old, or was made by a 5-year-old. What is the name of your stone point ID guide book? I didn’t know such a thing exists. I just picked up a piece of local quartzite on the dog walk today and plan to destroy it in a crude attempt to see if I can get a sharp edge.

                                                                I’m also enjoying this thread a lot, and learning more than a little. Thanks for starting it up, Paleo, and thanks to all.

                                                              • 1shot
                                                                  Post count: 252

                                                                  The book is “Overstreets Guide” there is some controvesery about the author, some types not correct,prices inflated, etc, but a good starting point to id points…

                                                                  my laptop just kicked-off, I ‘ll try to post pic’s of some Arkansas River finds, cool fossil bone and teeth, later…

                                                                • paleoman
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                                                                    Post count: 931

                                                                    Here’s one I found near Lowell, Mi. several years ago. I think it dates pre-Woodland but don’t know for sure. Still sharp too. Looks to me like nice workmanship?

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                                                                  • 1shot
                                                                      Post count: 252

                                                                      Buff and Camel teeth… Hopewell point..

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                                                                    • 1shot
                                                                        Post count: 252

                                                                        6000-4000 year old fossil Bison Bison skull… These are from the Arkansas river around Tulsa, OK… I stop off during my road trips back and forth to NY…

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                                                                      • paleoman
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                                                                          1shot wrote: 6000-4000 year old fossil Bison Bison skull… These are from the Arkansas river around Tulsa, OK… I stop off during my road trips back and forth to NY…

                                                                          Wow. That stuff is too cool!

                                                                        • paleoman
                                                                          Member
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                                                                            Post count: 931

                                                                            David Petersen wrote: 1shot — Now that’s a truly primitive head. Either it’s super old, or was made by a 5-year-old. What is the name of your stone point ID guide book? I didn’t know such a thing exists. I just picked up a piece of local quartzite on the dog walk today and plan to destroy it in a crude attempt to see if I can get a sharp edge.

                                                                            I’m also enjoying this thread a lot, and learning more than a little. Thanks for starting it up, Paleo, and thanks to all.

                                                                            Dave – here’s one made of quartz my brother found in western Ma. when we were kids. I would think working quartz would be a tough job.

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                                                                          • paleoman
                                                                            Member
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                                                                              Post count: 931

                                                                              I found a site named arrowheadology.com. Lots of pics of differing types of points and artifacts.

                                                                            • Ralph
                                                                              Moderator
                                                                                Post count: 2580

                                                                                That’ll be interesting to sort through while wind blowing 30-40 mph out today and tomorrow. I have this book but it’s pretty much geological like it’s title says. I oughta be hunting but in this open country and high winds all I ever do is kick things out of deep draws and they haul butt. I don’t do running shots, not because I can’t, but I can’t:D and won’t.

                                                                              • paleoman
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                                                                                  projectile points.net is really good too. I never realized there was so much online.

                                                                                • Ralph
                                                                                  Moderator
                                                                                    Post count: 2580

                                                                                    Sad. It seems no matter how far from the roads I get I find artifacts like this. If mankind survives for awhile future archaeologists will have plenty to ponder over from our time on earth.

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