Open stance or conventional ?

[bruc]

#6083

Just finished reading the article by G. Fred Asbell in the latest TBM .

I shoot the conventional (squared away) form, I have not tried the open stance as he suggests . I am certainly going to try it when it gets a bit warmer ! Anyway I’m looking for different opinions on this style of shooting ?

Bruce

[grumpy]

#51428

Need to practice any and all stances. The deer will appear when you are in your least preferred stance… Like crawling under a barbed wire fence. 😈

We LOVE your quote. 😀

[arthurw]

#51957

I haven’t read it yet. Trip to the bookstore for me tomorrow. My personal style is funny looking, and I receive looks of amusement and some laughs, but it works for me. I’m reminded of Ed Norton when I prepare to take a shot.

I practice from my stool, as well as my pad sitting on the ground, along with standing, so my foot position isn’t as important to me as aligning my upper body consistently. I make sure my posture is straight, as if I’m balancing a book on my head. For some strange reason I need to stretch my arms a couple times ( Ed Norton). I nock the arrow, and hold bow arm straight out. Keeping my body rigid, I reach out and grab the string, pull to anchor as I’m concentrating on the spot.

I hold for a second focusing on the spot. My release is a surprise when it happens correctly. Haven’t figured out how to get a deer to stand there while I complete my shot sequence.

[Stephen Graf]

#56941

bruc wrote: …I’m looking for different opinions on this style of shooting ?…

Opinions on shooting style? How many of those could there be? 😯 😳 🙄

I’ve read all Fred’s books and have his video. Fred is a recurve shooter and his style works for him and his recurve. If you are a recurve shooter, you will probably get something good from his writings.

Before I say anything else on this topic, the most important thing to say is that shooting a bow should be fun. And it should be a relaxed activity.

I’ve seen too many people, including myself, get wrapped around the axel trying to do it the “right” way. This can only result in frustration and… the dread target panic 😈

What is your main purpose? To shoot dots, or deer? Fred’s style is more geared toward deer. I found that as I opened my stance a bit, my shooting got better for a while, but then it started to get worse as my stance opened more and more. You have to be careful with it.

Keep your eye over the arrow, never stop pulling, and above all have fun. Whatever else you do, is for you alone.

This is the perfect place for some wise words from one of those upon who’s shoulders we all stand: “…aim is a point of life rich with a subtle extract of delight. You condense all your capacity and press it hard there. Your lungs are full, your brain is drawn to a focus, and your steadfast eyes glitter.” – Maurice Thompson

[Ralph]

#59271

If you can hit what you’re shootin at, what the heck.

What works for one may not for others.

Never hurts to look and listen to the advice of others though. Some people know a hell of a lot more about what there talking about than I do…

To each his own and put’em where you want’em.

[John Cholin]

#29893

I am a recurve shooter too and I have always shot open stance. It just made more sense to me for the reasons GFA outlined in his article. I adopted the open stance decades ago to avoid string slap on my left arm. Even if it didn’t hurt the bow was spending some of its energy against my arm instead of flinging the arrow and that made the arrow hit low. We can’t have that!

So I’m an open kind of guy.

Best wishes for the New Year.

JMC

[Ed Ashby]

#30463

Most folks make things harder than they should be. On of my early mentors, and the best deer killer with a bow I’ve ever known, was fond of saying, “Shoot’n ain’t the same as hunt’n”. Animals rarely present ‘picture perfect’ shot opportunities. I’ve always practiced shooting from as many different positions as I could conger up in my imagination.

I base my ‘killing zone’, the range I will shoot animals at, on the accuracy I can achieve with certainty. I consider any shot ‘close enough to kill’ as a perfect shot … as long as I do my part by getting ‘close enough to kill’.

I’ve never considered the ability to put shot after shot into a tight group from a fixed shooting position as being of much value to the hunter. Within one’s personal ‘kill zone’, being able to reliably put the first arrow ‘close enough to kill’ from whatever position one has to take to make the shot as the correct measure of shooting skill for the bowhunter.

Most folks overthink their shooting. Relax, have fun with your shots, practice those ‘whacky’ position shots in ‘groups of one’; never firing two consecutive shots from the exact same position. Learn how to know when you are ‘close enough kill’ on the shot offered. Then all you have to do is make that first shot ‘close enough to kill’; just like you will have done hundreds of times in practice.

It’s always worked for me. If you want to know more about my practice and hunting methods buy my book … and help out our most severely wounded warriors at the same time (ALL royalties go directly the the Fisher House Foundation)!

Ed

[Ralph]

#36163

Still nice, just for the hell of it sometimes, to prove to yourself that you can do good in the same place more than once 😀

[Jason Wesbrock]

#37751

I haven’t read the article yet, so I can’t comment on it specifically. That notwithstanding, there is something to be said for being able to shoot from a variety of different positions. There’s also something to be said for understanding what we give up in terms of accuracy when we contort into such positions. If your maximum effective range (for example) is 20 yards when everything is just perfect, you should probably dial that distance back a bit if you decide to take a shot sitting on the ground or twisted around like a candy cane.

The reason you don’t see top archers competing with the contorted shooting form that is promoted in some bowhunting circles is that it’s not conducive to maximum accuracy. Of course, the level of precision that’s needed to finish at the top of major competitions isn’t the same as what it takes to put meat in the freezer. I don’t demand the same rigidity in my form and shot execution for hunting that I do for 80-yard field archery targets. But I also understand the further I deviate from that perfect form the closer I had better keep my shots.

[Ptaylor]

#26714

I like what everyone had been saying about this topic. I was always aware of, but painfully experienced firsthand last year, that I need to practice shooting from really odd positions; especially if I plan on stalking to hunt. When I set up an ambush I sit so that I can shoot in a comfortable and regular shooting form. But while stalking I may be, have been, in a really odd position when the shot is presented (Grumps: Only crawl under fences when there are no deer around…:lol:).

I currently adhere to Ashby’s shoot from all kinds of angles and positions and distances. At some point in this practice I am sure I find myself in the “open stance” position. I had never thought about the reasons Asbell gave for shooting that form. I like what he says about it, and I’ll pay more attention to it in my practice.

Something that I started to notice (for me) was that I didn’t shoot my broadheads enough. I had a variety of excuses: I did not want to miss the target and break an arrow, didn’t want to have to sharpen them often, I have to pull each arrow after shooting cause if I hit another arrow with a broadhead that arrow is done. Now I shoot my broadheads and practice with them. Makes me more confident with the arrow I will hunt with.

[David Coulter]

#27189

I think there is a lot to be said for practicing with broadheads. For some reason it just feels different than shooting field tips or judos. That feeling relaxes with practice. The funny thing is, I don’t feel that difference when shooting at a deer. I guess there’s just to many other feelings going on.

On another note, when I’m hunting with a bow, I rarely sit down. Too often when I see a deer, it’s already so close that I would be making to much movement to stand up. I hunted on the ground twice this year and I remained on my feet then, too. dwc

[grumpy]

#29098

It is even worse crawling under a stone wall…

[arthurw]

#34002

I find I need more practice stalking, and still-hunting. Somehow, over the years my equilibrium went way off, and I stagger somewhat while trying to place my feet slowly. I’m a bull in a china shop in the woods. I need to learn to slow down, and stop using ambush techniques as my crutch.

That being said, it’s difficult to play the wind and sun while still-hunting in a limited amount of space such as we have here in Jersey. In Maine, sure, no problem in Northern Aroostook County where I’ve run around all week without seeing another Hunter, and I never ran out of land. The private land in Jersey where I’m hunting today, I must use ambush techniques. I practice from sitting on the ground, sitting on a stool, and standing. I went in last week and made sure I had clear shooting lanes so I can ambush my buck I’ve been hunting from a different spot. I make sure there’s nothing in my way for drawing my bow, and am able to shoot with a target type stance.

[Ralph]

#37103

arthurw wrote:

I went in last week and made sure I had clear shooting lanes so I can ambush my buck I’ve been hunting from a different spot. I make sure there’s nothing in my way for drawing my bow, .

That’s great. Often overlooked is clearance for the recoil of the bow.

Nothing like the whack of a bow limb smacking a tree limb. Not only does the animal turn inside out trying to leave the country there’s a definite possibility of damage to the bow.

Good luck!!!! 🙂

[DK]

#16572

I shoot only slightly open. I find that if I get my stance to open I cant get my elbow around far enough which means I wont come straight back off the string. If my elbow is not in line with the arrow I will pluck the string. Anyone else have that problem?

DK

[David Coulter]

#26147

DK,

As I’m working on my form more and more to refine it, I’m finding the same thing. My more open stance works fine at closer ranges, say 15 and under, but not as well at longer, practice ranges. With the more closed stance I can feel the back tension taking better effect and I have a quieter release. I try to keep it a little bit open to minimize the problems with clothing getting in the way of the string. I recently stopped using an arm guard with my coat on and I’m settling into a pretty natural stance that gives me better back tension and release and enough clearance. dwc

[DK]

#26279

I would love to get away from using an arm guard. I think my bow arm is to straight. Need to work on it.

[David Coulter]

#26451

DK,

My bowyer told me to grip by bow and hold the bow straight out in front of me. If the string comes in contact with your arm, rotate the bow in your grip a little until it doesn’t. That’s where you grip the bow. The other thing is to rotate your bow arm elbow outward. Jeff Kavanaugh has a good video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ervc-Fp2d_c

Of course, Moebow has excellent form videos, too.

best of luck, dwc

[Bruce Novinska]

#32413

In olden times opposition shot back. Being narrow, closed stance, had a long lasting reward. :idea::idea:

[Jason Wesbrock]

#52952

DK wrote: If my elbow is not in line with the arrow I will pluck the string. Anyone else have that problem?

DK

That problem is very common, more than a lot of people realize. Imagine the profile of an archer at full draw. The two points of their upper body furthest apart are their bow hand and string-side elbow. Think of those two points being opposite ends of a wire being pulled tight. What is in the middle? The string hand.

The reason you want your elbow in line with the arrow (which really means it’s in line with your bow hand) is that it creates a straight line of tension—the bow grip, string hand and elbow are in a line. You can shoot with a nice, relaxed string-side forearm and string hand without forcing it into your face. When the string leaves the fingers it pulls straight away and the string hand moves straight back. Everything is in a straight line, and the arrow should travel straight forward.

If your elbow isn’t brought around far enough you now have a bend in the middle of that imaginary wire between your string-side elbow and bow hand—that bend being your string hand. You’ve now created a situation where you have excess tension in your string-side forearm, biceps and string hand just to keep your string hand against your face. This can cause all kind of problems with getting off the string consistently and straight back, the most common being plucking.

There are two major line of tension an archer has at full draw. One travels from the back shoulder through the front shoulder and to the bow hand. The other travels from the string-side elbow through the string hand to the bow hand. Ideally those two lines of tension should be straight.

I like to think of it this way, and if my assessment is incorrect or incomplete I hope Arne (Moebow) will correct me. The line through the bow arm creates a solid, steady aim. The line through the string-side arm creates a relaxed hold and consistent release.

I apologize for the commentary attached regarding BT releases and the compound photos. These are the best images I could find on the web to show proper versus improper alignment. I see a lot of archers—particularly traditional archers—shooting like the fellow in the top left. His upper body is wide open and his elbow isn’t brought around far enough. This is very unstable, and I’ll guarantee this guy’s accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. The fellow all the way on the bottom has nice straight lines of tension and is very stable. Of all the archers in these photos, he has the best chance of having a steady aim and consistent release.

[DK]

#53631

Great,

So is he twisting at the waist to help get his string elbow all the way around? A more open stance but is using his hips to get rotated around.

I also don’t know what the heck my bow shoulder should be doing. Should it be down and forward or back like I am pinching my shoulder blades together. I don’t get the bow shoulder????

thanks for the help

DK

[Jason Wesbrock]

#54268

When archers/coaches talk about open stances, they’re generally referring to the feet and hips, not the shoulders as viewed from above. And by “open,” we’re usually talking about 20-40 degrees from in line with the target. It’s just enough to minimize swaying at full draw.

Some archers leave their hips open and rotate their torsos to get the shoulders in the proper line. I’ve tried that, and it felt incredibly uncomfortable to me. Others have their feet open and their hips in line with the target. This works best for me, and is a more standard type of stance.

[Stephen Graf]

#59774

J.Wesbrock wrote: …There are two major line of tension an archer has at full draw. One travels from the back shoulder through the front shoulder and to the bow hand. The other travels from the string-side elbow through the string hand to the bow hand…

Small Correction – The forces in the bow arm are more correctly referred to as compression. As wise Isaac Newton observed: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The tension forces created by drawing the string are opposed by the compressive forces created in the bow arm. Thus static equilibrium is reached, for a moment anyway.

I would again mention the book Archery Anatomy by Ray Axford. It gives about the best description of target form I have read.

Then I would mention that there are two camps when it comes to shooting. Those that pursue the static form of target shooting, and those that pursue the dynamic form of the swing draw.

Which you choose is mostly dependent on your personality I think, but they both deserve honest consideration.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#60383

Excellent point, Steve. Thanks for the correction.

[DK]

#60824

I am ordering the book.

Thanks guys.

[David Coulter]

#9968

DK, Steve, J, Thanks for all of your input. Threads like these are invaluable for me. Since I don’t have a local coach, readings like this and videos like Arne’s are such a help. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Best, david

[Stephen Graf]

#19324

DK wrote: I would love to get away from using an arm guard. I think my bow arm is to straight. Need to work on it.

I’ve never needed an arm guard with a recurve. If you are getting some slap, it may be that your brace height is too low.

[DK]

#27295

Steve,

I think I only have a half inch of play in my brace height. At least that is what is recommended. I am looking forward to getting that book so I can figure out what to do with my bow shoulder. I watched the link with Jeff K and it was helpful but I already have me elbow pointing in the right direction. I think I get my shoulder to far back and it pulls my string in closer to my arm.

DK

[DK]

#53539

Ok, watched the Jeff kav clip and the moebow bow arm clip. I am no longer getting string slap. I got my bow more on he heel of my hand and seems to be working. If I were to bend my bow elbow at full draw it would be at about a 45 degree angle to the ground. Should it be more? I believe Jeff’s clips says the elbow should bend at a 90 from the ground. I can’t make that feel comfortable..

Thanks Doug K

[David Coulter]

#54853

DK, maybe Arne will chime in here at some point. I think there will be some variations between archers, due to natural build and an assortment of trauma we’ve all been through. The main point is to rotate that bow arm outward. It gets it out of the way of the string and lines up the bones.

Arne would have you shooting blind bale a lot, especially in the beginning. I took his advice and try to shoot a little blind bale every morning in the dark. One arrow at a time, a few steps from the bale. It really has helped. It’s hard to keep yourself from shooting at a bull for accuracy, but if you can let go of that for a period of time ( Arne suggests three months, I think) you’ll be way ahead.

Look up Jeff K and Arne’s videos on shot sequence too. Break it down and put it all together piece by piece.

Ain’t it fun? The best part of being a traditional bow hunter is that there’s shooting to be done all year round. All the best to ya, dwc

Ps. do a forum search for Moebow and look at the Archery Anatomy thread.

[Ron Vaughn]

#8041

A lot of good comments associated with this thread. If you notice the two pictures (page 46 of Fred’s article in Feb. Mar., 2016, issue of Trad. Bowhunter) that Fred uses to illustrate the “square” versus “open stance”, it is easy to see that the right elbow of the open stance method is cocked considerably more to the right than that of square stance. For me, this cocked right elbow causes my release not to be as crisp because my release hand is cocked to the right as well.

That being said, I have shot several deer using the open stance because that is the only position I could use in order to take the shot at the right time and holding my movement to a minimum. Consequently, practicing the open stance method is important for me, but I concentrate on making sure my right elbow is tucked in as much as possible and not flying out to the right even more. This insures as crisp of a release as possible.

[David Coulter]

#10532

I’m enjoying this thread. Better shooting has been a mission for me since I started several years ago. I read G. Fred’s book on shooting for the bowhunter and it helped a lot. While Fred writes of the open stance, he’ll have you twist at the waist to line up the shot. I’m enjoying improved accuracy with a more squared stance. I also find that if my stance is somewhat open, my waist pivots and my shoulders square up as I pull into full draw to get back tension.

It’s interesting to read what works best for individuals and for their particular intentions. I’m grateful for the sharing of information you all provide.

I just watched a Joel Turner video on blind bale. The one thing that I got from it was that while it is important to remember how a shot feels, it’s also important to remember what you are thinking during the shot. There’s visual focus and there’s mental focus. While they go hand in hand they are they are aspects of their own. Best, dwc

[Don Thomas]

#17600

Good discussion. Rather than working to find your best archery style, I’d suggest letting your best archery style find you. That’s what I had to do when I started shooting, since there weren’t any videos and I had no adult mentors. AS I grew more serous as an adult I read, listened, and tried various shooting style options, but always came back to shooting pretty much the way I did when I was six years old. I favor a closed stance. Each arm produces a force vector, the bow arm’s pointing out and the drawing hand’s pointing back. The more perfectly aligned they are in opposition, the less lateral correction will be required at full draw, and the more those superimposed vectors line up over the arrow, the truer the shot will fly. A closed stance supports these principles. I can’t claim I was thinking about vectors when I was a kid shooting at frogs and squirrels. Don

[Stephen Graf]

#26843

I think Don’s about got it there. I would add that I get in trouble, and I think most others do, when they make it a habit to think too much about it.

Here’s an interesting article about learning new habits:

http://www.livescience.com/53779-form-new-habit-dont-overthink.html

[David Coulter]

#27073

I look forward to reading that article. It’s not that I think too much, it what I’m thinking that gets me in trouble! dwc

[Ralph]

#27248

“Stinkin thinkin” ……………..applies to a lot of things………

I’m agreeing with Don.

If you’re putting your arrows where you want them…………do it………

Taking my bow to the backyard or to the archery ranch or to my lease and shooting, stumping or just snooping with bow in hand is a relaxing venture, not a time of complication. A time of not worrying about anchor or stance or form. It’s time to let my brain relax and enjoy.

When I pull an arrow from the dot or the bush or the stump or the critter, whatever, that’s what it’s all about, not how the shot started but how it ended…

[David Coulter]

#27502

R2, I agree about the fun part, but I have to add that if I didn’t think things through, if I didn’t study a few books and watch and re-watch a bunch of videos, and ask a bunch of questions on this forum, my shooting would not have improved. It’s more fun for me to drill what I’m looking at than to spend half my time digging in the leaves for stray arrows, although that’s probably made me a better tracker.

It’s all part of it, for me at least. I just love wandering through the woods watching the arrows fly. It’s a big part of my personal, spiritual experience. And I also love the part about being a student and learning to hone the craft aspect of sport. Wherever there’s art, there’s a craft behind it. Usually, the more effortless it looks, the more effort went into getting to that moment. It’s all part of a wonderful ball of wax for me.

thanks, dwc

[Ralph]

#27914

Maybe it’s about the timing of the thinking through??? Better have it thought through thoroughly and figured out before the time of need.

I’m no way debating learning to shoot open, closed, backwards stance or whatever, you just need to learn what works for you, get good at it and do it.

Not debating reading, watching videos, which, by the way, are a great advantage now as to when I began.

The touchdown pass, or the strike three pitch to win the series is no different than the arrow you’re fixing to loose. Those folk do what they do well, have repeatedly done it as that also needs to be done when shooting a bow. They practiced, they were taught technique but it boils down to that they use their natural ability to perform in the manner of the best that they are.

If technique was all there was to it, practice technique and we’d all shoot the same with the same results. That works for Olympic style pretty good, for the most part all factors of the shot are known, but….

“It matters not who, where or when, the jerking of the trigger, the brain fart exists.” (Me:roll:)

I’m simply saying if you got it going, work on making YOUR skill better. That includes for some, blind bale shooting, drawing and holding without loosing, and various methods of self control. Yeah, one was probably exposed to those through a book or video. Those are methods for perfecting YOUR muscles, YOUR hand/eye coordination, YOUR abilities. Someone explained how that worked for them. Maybe it is/will working/work for you but if not so what, if so, thanks.

We are none two alike, that’s why there is no one way to “correctly” shoot a bow, throw a pass, pitch a ball..so practice “YOU”….

And have fun doing it, not fighting it……

Besides, it’s cool what one can sometimes find buried underneath the scratched up grass. Where I get to stump shoot, stumps don’t exist so it’s done in name only. What we shoot at the arrows passes through so grass scratching is part of the game.:D Artifacts are discovered at times.. Ugly bugs and snakes too…

[David Coulter]

#28005

R2, Those first two sentences say it all. Thanks. I’m lucky to live in rattlesnake country, but to have never seen one too close at hand.

“And have fun doing it, not fighting it…” yes, indeed. best, dwc

[Ralph]

#28165

What more perfect form could you want ? This was ‘written’ on a rock wall eons ago……..

[Jason Wesbrock]

#28831

I agree with Don about letting the right form find you. I have seen more folks get messed up horribly by trying to shoehorn themselves into someone else’s mold. There is a fine line between trying new things in the hopes of improvement and abandoning what works best for you because someone else says it’s wrong.

A very good friend of mine, Kevin, is one of the best instinctive shooters I’ve ever met. When I first heard of him about 15 years ago it was because he was the guy with the longbow kicking all of our tails in the recurve class at local 3D shoots. The first time I actually met and shot with him I was blown away. We shoot with two very different styles, his being very fluid, canted and leaning with me being more “classical” and rigid. I knew the physical and mental gymnastics I was going through to hit 10 rings, but he made it look so easy and effortless. I’m pretty sure he outshot me that day.

Several years went by and Kevin decided to jump into upper level competition. His first time at the IBO Worlds he made the top five cut in the recurve class—he had switched from longbows a few years prior. After that tournament he wanted to improve his accuracy, so he started changing his equipment and style to match what the top recurve barebow archers were doing (upright, classical form and conscious aiming).

For two years Kevin’s accuracy went to pot. The further away he got from his comfort zone to worse he shot. We got to talking one day and I told him what he’d already known. He needed to go back to what worked best for him, not someone else. He found a recurve that complimented his canted, fluid instinctive style of shooting and went back his roots, so to speak. Almost immediately, his accuracy jumped right back up to where it once was. Best yet, he’s a lot happier with his shooting now.

[Stephen Graf]

#38212

The only part of that story that doesn’t ring true is the part where Kevin decided to stick with recurves 😯 🙄

Once a fella gets between those long lean limbs of a longbow, how can he ever settle for less 😀

[Stephen Graf]

#38281

R2 wrote: What more perfect form could you want ? This was ‘written’ on a rock wall eons ago……..

Dang, if my string arm would do what that dude’s arm does, I’d be in heaven… But I have to tell you Ralph, that ain’t no “rock wall” he’s living on, at least not any more… 😳 🙄 😀

[David Coulter]

#39683

J, perhaps you can answer this one. It seems in your story that recurves are inherently more accurate and have their own category. Is that true and why? Some pretty famous archers shot longbows, even when recurves were available. Can you explain? Thanks very much, dwc

Steve, looks like those rocks eroded from the inside a bit, eh? 🙄

[Jason Wesbrock]

#40747

dwcphoto wrote: J, perhaps you can answer this one. It seems in your story that recurves are inherently more accurate and have their own category. Is that true and why? Some pretty famous archers shot longbows, even when recurves were available. Can you explain? Thanks very much, dwc

Steve, looks like those rocks eroded from the inside a bit, eh? 🙄

Man, that’s a can of worms right there. 😉

I suppose in the macro sense we could look at tournament results where there are separate classes (and archers shoot from the same distances) to figure out which group scores higher. Then we could dissect bows design elements of each bow type and evaluate which should be more forgiving, but none of that is guaranteed to translate at the individual level. Sometimes a person just performs better with one particular design over another. I suppose that’s why folks like Hill and Ferguson are known for using longbows while another equally talented trick shooter, Stacy Groscup, preferred recurves.

I think we run into problems when we cherry pick examples or quotes to support our particular preferences, whether bow design, broadhead type, shooting style or pretty much anything else in life. I think folks call that confirmation bias. We have to be careful to not develop tunnel vision. Some folks are going to shoot better with recurves. Others will prefer longbows. Half the fun is trying a bunch of different things to see which suits us best.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#40769

Steve Graf wrote: The only part of that story that doesn’t ring true is the part where Kevin decided to stick with recurves 😯 🙄

Once a fella gets between those long lean limbs of a longbow, how can he ever settle for less 😀

If I recall correctly, he was shooting and 80-something-pound Matlock at the time. The recurve he shoots now is around 67#. It hurts my shoulders just looking at it. 😯

[David Coulter]

#41911

J. that’s sort of what I had believed all along, but then I hear of recurve class and longbow class and wonder why the segregation? Thanks, dwc

[Ralph]

#42036

Steve Graf wrote: [quote=R2]What more perfect form could you want ? This was ‘written’ on a rock wall eons ago……..

Dang, if my string arm would do what that dude’s arm does, I’d be in heaven… But I have to tell you Ralph, that ain’t no “rock wall” he’s living on, at least not any more… 😳 🙄 😀

Just about Steve!!!:D:D:roll: Still gettin ancient though….

Spinach works…….

But it don’t stop wrinkles…

[Forresterwoods]

#53522

Square stance forces me to use my back muscles so I use that for warming up and to not use my biceps. Open stance seems to help me focus on my target like a crouching predator. Not sure why.

[Ralph]

#28892

https://youtu.be/Umx1CT3BKBY

Inverted stance..for them sneaky ones that come in behind ya. Deer too:-)

[Stephen Graf]

#31371

I figured you was gonna shoot between your legs 😯 I think “twisted” is a better adjective to describe you… ah…. I mean your shot 😳 😀

[Ralph]

#32534

I was gonna do that tween the legs shot but there’s things get in the way. 🙄 Like age…:wink:

[Author]

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