My Setup Adequate for Elk???

[MCuiksa]

#4552

Hello all. Going on my first Elk hunt the end of Sept (CO, Gunnison Natl Forest). Shot a lot of whitetails here in Indiana and haven’t had a problem with penetration/quick kills on them but I raised my arrow weight and FOC for my elk hunt. Please offer opinions as to my setup being adequate – I’m afraid the FOC might be a little low.

Bow: 62# Recurve. Broadhead: Tusker Concorde 250gn.
Arrow: 730gr total weight (11.8 gr/lb of draw). XX75 300 Aluminum 30″ long. Balance point is 5″ forward (16.7% FOC).
Brace Height 7 5/8″ (sounds good, quiet with no shock)
Nock Sets/Silencers/General Setup produce bare shafts grouped with fletched arrows. Bare shafts shoot nock high 1-2 inches.

I like the overall setup if the FOC is good to you guys. I can go to brass inserts if you think I need to drive the FOC higher. Not against different arrows either…this is just what I use for deer at home cause they’re easy to work with for me (I’m not an arrow builder although some of your pictures make me want to get started!!) 🙂

Thanks for your input. Mike.

[David Petersen]

#31618

Mike, I’m just another Ashby student and now that Ed is among us again I trust he will stop by to correct and amplify my take on your question, but to get the thread rolling,like so: 650 total weight is the “heavy bone threshhold” in the Ashby studies, above which, assuming the broadhead is adequate to the task, you have a very good chance of getting lethal bone penetration on big tough animals, and below which your chances are not as good. Thus, 650 is the starting point that must be attained before FOC really kicks in. Beyond 650, in his recent study updates, Ed demonstrates that increases in FOC increase penetration faster than do increases in total weight. So, as you suggest, you’re great on total weight and mediocre on FOC. If you can easily experiment with more weight up front, why not do it? My own experience is that more weight up front, while increasing total weight, doesn’t seem to affect trajectory as much as more overall weight without increasing FOC (that is, heavier shafts). I don’t think you’ll have any problem from that 62# bow, if she’s reasonably fast, adding a bit more weight. On the other hand, I would be supremely confident with your setup as it is now. So I guess my bottom line answer is that from here on, go for accuracy first. If it decreases with more weight, fall back to where you are. So long as spine is sufficient, my accuracy increases with the more weight I add to the front and we’ve heard many others report the same. The Tusker Concord, while not among the celebrities of the new generation of single-bevels, is an absolutely solid head that I’ve tested on elk and otherwise with excellent results, and a relative bargain for the price. Enjoy, dave

[Ed Ashby]

#31639

Mike, there’s not really much to add to what Dave said. Your setup will work fine ‘as is’ but you could improve it by shifting some of the arrow’s weight forward. As long as you stay around 650 grains minimum total arrow weight, the more FOC you can get on your arrows the better penetration you will have once a bone (should you hit one) is breached.

I rate elk as the toughest of the North American game to put down (with the exception of a really HUGE hog). Percentage wise it is likely that more bowhunted elk are hit and not recovered than any other NA species. Moose and the big bears are far easier to put down than an elk. There’s no way for your arrow to have too much penetration potential when hunting elk.

Ed

[handirifle]

#31734

I am new to this EFOC idea, but have always liked a heavy arrow over a light one because it makes a quieter bow. I have always read they penetrate better as well, but the EFOC idea is intriguing.

I do have some questions on it though. The 650gr lower limit; does this weight apply regardless of draw weight?

The comment that a heavy broadhead weight does not affect arrow flight has me scratching my head. A heavy point can affect the bare shaft tuning, requiring a stiffer shaft, so by that I am assuming that is part of the overall plan? A stiffer, thus heavier shaft? But does not the heavier shaft then affect arrow flight?

Please straighten me out.

[MCuiksa]

#32063

Dave/Ed, thanks for the input.

Dave, to answer the question of “why not try more weight upfront?”, I will try it. I really like how this setup is shooting now (accurate and quiet). I will do a little tweaking to try to get a little more out of it (specifically, my bare shafts will sometimes have a 2″ nock high symptom and I’d like to get that down a little).

I will put in the brass inserts and will even try a 300gr head instead of the 250’s. I just wanted to make sure this setup looked good to you guys so that if making these changes sacrificed performance I could always come back to it.

Again, thanks for your input. You guys probably don’t realize how helpful you are to average guy!! Mike.

[Ed Ashby]

#32183

Handirfle, the 650 grain lower limit for total arrow mass/weight (the heavy bone threshold) holds for all draw weight bows. What the data shows is that for all broadheads, of all types, there is an abrupt jump in the frequency of penetrating heavy bone when the arrow mass reaches approximately 650 grains. This is a result of the TIME of the “impulse of force”, or how long the arrow is able to keep pushing against the bone. This does not mean that the frequency of heavy bone penetration is the same for all broadheads, or that it is the same for ‘like arrows’ shot from different draw weight bows. All it means is that, regardless of the draw weight of the bow or the broadhead used, in every test series the number of arrows able to penetrate a heavy bone showed an abrupt, marked increase when the arrow mass was at or above the 650 grains. In the Study, FOR THE BEST ARROW SETUPS TESTED the frequency of breaching heavy bone jumped to 100% when the arrow mass was above 650 grains, and this held for all bows used in testing, from 40# upward.

As for the heavy broadhead not affecting arrow flight I’m sure the reference is to a tuned arrow. I’ve found much the same. With well-tuned arrows, identical in all aspects except for the degree of FOC, the EFOC and Ultra-EFOC arrows recover from paradox faster and show a flatter trajectory than the matching normal-FOC arrow. They also show less wind drift when shot in high cross-wind or quartering wind conditions.

Yes, the heavier the point the stiffer the shaft needs to be. However, a stiffer shaft does not necessarily mean a heavier shaft. In the Ultra-EFOC testing I used mostly Gold Tip Ultra-Lite shafts, which are as stiff as other GT shafts, but lighter in weight. The new Momentum shafts, from Alaska Bowhunting Supply, are another example of a lighter shaft being stiffer than its heavier counterparts. In fact, when trying to increase FOC into its upper levels it’s best to use the lightest weight shaft as you can, shifting as much of the arrow’s total weight to the point as possible.

Hope that helps,
Ed

[handirifle]

#32533

Ed,
Yes it does help, thanks. Yes my reference WAS to an already tuned shaft. Quite an interesting departure from many previous thoughts. I have read (never been there) that many African countries require the ultra heavy shafts for bow hunters, but I wonder what they know, if anything, about the effect of the FOC of that weight?

MCuiksa

I might be wrong, but the nock high issue you refer to, will not change with tip weight. That has to do with string nock location. it sounds like yours is a bit high.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#32536

“My Setup Adequate for Elk???”

And then some.

[MCuiksa]

#34612

MCuiksa wrote: Bow: 62# Recurve. Broadhead: Tusker Concorde 250gn.
Arrow: 730gr total weight (11.8 gr/lb of draw). XX75 300 Aluminum 30″ long. Balance point is 5″ forward (16.7% FOC).
Brace Height 7 5/8″ (sounds good, quiet with no shock)
Nock Sets/Silencers/General Setup produce bare shafts grouped with fletched arrows. Bare shafts shoot nock high 1-2 inches.

This forum (specifically, the authors that provide the content to this forum) is incredible. I’ve never had a setup shoot as good as the one I have right now thanks to the valuable info you’ve provided. Here’s my updated info and I love how it shoots:
I now have 300gr upfront plus the brass inserts. Arrow is now 847gr (13.7gr/lb of draw). FOC is 20.4%. Same brace ht. Nock set lowered 1/32″ to tweak bare shaft performance. Still quick and silent, no shock. Took 1/2″ off arrow length to help with heavier points.
I was shooting at 14 yards (seems like a randow number, BUT IT’S WHERE THE SHADE ENDED!!) 😆 this morning for my final test and had to quit shooting (6) arrow sets because they were hitting one another and I was afraid I’d tear some up!! Amazing. Thanks again. Mike. 😀

[handirifle]

#35296

MCuiksa wrote: [quote=MCuiksa]Bow: 62# Recurve. Broadhead: Tusker Concorde 250gn.
Arrow: 730gr total weight (11.8 gr/lb of draw). XX75 300 Aluminum 30″ long. Balance point is 5″ forward (16.7% FOC).
Brace Height 7 5/8″ (sounds good, quiet with no shock)
Nock Sets/Silencers/General Setup produce bare shafts grouped with fletched arrows. Bare shafts shoot nock high 1-2 inches.

This forum (specifically, the authors that provide the content to this forum) is incredible. I’ve never had a setup shoot as good as the one I have right now thanks to the valuable info you’ve provided. Here’s my updated info and I love how it shoots:
I now have 300gr upfront plus the brass inserts. Arrow is now 847gr (13.7gr/lb of draw). FOC is 20.4%. Same brace ht. Nock set lowered 1/32″ to tweak bare shaft performance. Still quick and silent, no shock. Took 1/2″ off arrow length to help with heavier points.
I was shooting at 14 yards (seems like a randow number, BUT IT’S WHERE THE SHADE ENDED!!) 😆 this morning for my final test and had to quit shooting (6) arrow sets because they were hitting one another and I was afraid I’d tear some up!! Amazing. Thanks again. Mike. 😀

I have some more questions.
When looking at arrow selection charts, they never show point weight above 200gr, how do you select an arrow when planning on using a 250 or 300gr head, plus a heavy insert?

Where did you get brass inserts for alum arrows?

[handirifle]

#35314

I found the brass inserts, but for limited arrow sizes (aluminum), at 3 Rivers, any others?

[MCuiksa]

#35634

Handi,
My inserts came from 3Rivers. Since I’m shooting the xx75 300’s, the inserts were made to fit.

Also, if I recall correctly, the 300’s were the heaviest spine aluminum arrow available (at least when I bought them last year).

Per the chart on the box they came in, the 300’s are good for 160gr heads at my 30″ arrow length for my 62# draw (they are on the very low end of the chart, meaning they might be just on the stiff side). The 300’s then show being good for an 84# draw at my 30″ with the 160gr heads (upper edge of the usable window so might be just on weak side). Figuring I was on the low end at 160gr, I knew I could add weight.

For whitetail here in Indiana I believe I was shooting 200gr heads with aluminum inserts…for my elk trip I jumped to 250gr just to see how they performed. Since performance was excellent but FOC was still a little low, I didn’t see a reason to not try more weight per dp/ed’s advice. I think I’m on the upper edge with this setup now as I shortened my arrows to 29.5″ to get the final performance I needed. I also added more thickness to the arrow pad (I forgot to put that in my above notes). I’m at an acceptable FOC now which is fortunate because I’m out of spine. Got lucky I guess…although the first setup with 250gr heads would have sufficed, I’m glad I got that little extra FOC out of it. Thanks. Mike.

[handirifle]

#35757

Mike
Thanks. Looking at the chart on the 3 Rivers site, I would go from about mid range on the 400’s (xx75, 2117’s) (200gr point) to the very bottom of the 340’s, with a 29″ arrow. My draw is just at 27 so I don’t want any more arrow than that hanging out there, especially with a 3″ head added on.

I assume the extra insert weight adds to the point weight, in determining spine, correct?

I found some of my sons old 2116’s and tried them (2″ longer), but didn’t bare shaft test. I might shave the feathers off one just to see where I sit. I probably need to order some heavy practice points (as was suggested) and inserts to see what really works, and then work on getting the rest of the heads later. I have to be really careful being on fixed income, and the funds being pulled in about 6 different directions.

[Ed Ashby]

#35765

Handirifle, Because there are so many variables (bow performance level, type and quality of release you have, type and profile of arrow rest or shelf, type and weight of the bowstring and the degree of center shot are a few) there is NO chart that will give you the ‘right shaft’ for anyone’s bow. That applies to all shaft types and all point weights. Any chart is just a guideline to give you an approximate starting point for testing and tuning. That’s why Easton publishes a 32 page guide on tuning your arrow, for use AFTER you have referred to their charts and selected a ‘recommended starting point’ shaft. For reference, here’s the link to Easton’s tuning guide: http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf

The best guide in selecting a ‘starting place’ shaft is experience. Lacking that the next best thing is to ask folks and try to find someone shooting a setup as close to yours as possible and see what worked for them (with the point weight you want to use),then use that as your starting point. From there it’s a matter of tuning the arrow to YOUR bow, with YOU shooting it. If you happen to have a shop nearby that well sell individual shafts that’s another option for finding the correct shaft, and some suppliers sell ‘shaft assortments’ just for tuning purposes. You might also ask around and find someone with shafts they no longer use, or ones they tried that didn’t work out for their bow.

For what it’s worth, I find the tapered carbon shafts to have the widest range of point weights that they seem to tune with. I THINK this has to do with how they flex upon release, with more of the flexion occurring near the shaft’s rear, whereas the major flexion with a parallel shaft occurs nearer the center of the shaft’s length.

Ed

[David Petersen]

#35782

This is not a criticism, but an honest question: I am increasingly curious why anyone still shoots aluminum shafts when carbons have so very many advantages and the price difference isn’t that significant. Even more curious, there seems to be more loyalty to aluminum shafts among trad shooters than among the compound crew. Our local hi-tech wheelie bow shop, for example, is phasing out alum shafts due to falling demand. I suspect habit and inertia is the primary cause of loyalty to aluminums, but if there are true advantages for aluminum over carbon I’d be interested to learn what they are. Trying to keep an open mind, thanks. Dave

[Ed Ashby]

#35819

I haven’t bought any new aluminum shafts in many, many years. I can’t get them to tune anywhere near as easily as carbon shafts at EFOC, and can’t get them to tune well at Ultra-EFOC.

To my way of thinking the best use for aluminum shafts today is probably as external footings over a carbon shaft, the way Kingwouldbe does. He’s essentially making a tapering compound shaft: aluminum outer fore shaft with a carbon rear shaft. I haven’t experimented with that type of setup to anything like the degree Kingwouldbe has, but he’s very knowledgeable on Ultra-EFOC and tuning. It’s likely a very good arrow setup, but my experience was that it took a lot more effort to get that type of arrow setup tuned than either a parallel or tapered carbon shaft.

Ed

[handirifle]

#35964

No offense taken by me, it’s a valid question, but a simple one for me. Its a matter of economics. TThe best price i have seen for shafts like the tapered carbons is $99 for 6 and i can get a dozen alum for almost half.

I would love to get top line carbons, since thats the kind of thing i would have done while working, but since i was forced to retire 2 years ago (mmandantory age requirement), money has gotten tight, being at just about half the income of what i was making before. I do shoot an older Mathews compound (Q2XL)and shoot carbons from it. Those are nearing the point of needing replaced or updated and i cannot afford to do so.

I wish it were otherwise, but it just isn’t.

[handirifle]

#35967

Ed thanks for the feedback. I was planning on trying to locate a mixed bag of arrows and see what might work. Not many shops in a normal driving distance around here and with mail order, shipping seems to make it always cost more somehow.

[MCuiksa]

#36013

David Petersen wrote: This is not a criticism, but an honest question: I am increasingly curious why anyone still shoots aluminum shafts when carbons have so very many advantages and the price difference isn’t that significant.

Dave, no criticism taken. My answer is simple….I only hunt whitetails and turkey. Spring of 2010 had me in my local shop and the Easton xx75 300 Gamegetters were on sale for $42 per dozen (regular $49.99/dz). I bought 2 dozen. I had used aluminum for years and was comfortable with them. No reason to change until I decided to go elk hunting this fall.
Don’t let my comment that I only hunt whitetails mislead: I fully understand whitetails are a big game animal and a slightly errant shot can result in a lost animal. That’s why I followed Ed’s research and went to 200gr, shaving sharp heads to get a little more weight upfront…combine that with the fact that 12 yards has always been my self-imposed limit and I felt confident in my setup.
I’m sure when these are gone, I’ll be shooting carbons due to the ability to get to a higher EFOC much easier. I’d guess the xx75’s were on sale to make shelf room for the carbons…..Mike. 🙂

PS: I have 2-3dz wood arrows of various spines that I shoot for turkey and other small game quite often just because of the traditionalist in me. I’m a mechanical engineer by trade and I’ve never gotten into the lighter is better mode like some of my buddies did in the 90’s. I always used the following as an analogy because velocity didn’t add up in my mind to being better than momentum: I gave them the choice of:
1) Do you want me to hit you with a plastic wiffle ball bat which will attain a high velocity?
2) Do you want me to hit you with a wood baseball bat that has high momentum?
They always chose the wiffle ball bat…so I’d ask, then why would you hit a deer with a light arrow?

[Ed Ashby]

#36038

Handirifle, I sure understand money getting short. There was a time in my life that I don’t know how I would have made if it weren’t for squirrels, muskrats, fish and turtles!

Because I went through so many shafts doing the Study I was always on the lookout for a bargain. Keep prowling the web. Many places, such as Cabela’s, Bass Pro, etcetera, periodically offer free shipping, and keep poking around the bargain barns and caves for closeouts. One of my best buys came from there, on CE Ultra-Light shafts – and the shipping was free. I think those might have come from Archery Warehouse, but not certain.

What part of the country are you located in?

Ed

p.s. Mike, I still use a lot of mismatched arrows, some wood, some aluminum and some carbon, when I’m stump shooting, or just shooting to work on the muscles. I’ve yet to have a stump or target get away wounded because of a poorly placed hit!

[David Petersen]

#36067

Handirifle — Makes good sense to me. And I would never suggest that aluminum shafts aren’t up to snuff for elk. They certainly are, so long as they’re set up heavy with as much FOC as possible … which is one of their disadvantages. Another is that for most sizes only light aluminum inserts are available, which the Ashby study has show can break esp. with angled impact on heavy bone (the ultimate test for system integrity). But you have brass inserts which will solve both those weaknesses. Occassionally, I still find one of my old aluminum 2117s out in the woods where I hunt, lying there for decades (it’s been a long time since I shot them) of weather and a devastating wildfire. The feathers are long gone and the paint is gone or very faded but the plastic nocks generally remain, if not melted off, and the points still in place. I envision some future archaeologist finding one of my arrows and contemplating how us primitive folk used to live. 😛 Dave

[handirifle]

#36124

David Petersen wrote: I envision some future archaeologist finding one of my arrows and contemplating how us primitive folk used to live. 😛 Dave

😀
Kinda makes you wonder about the lifestyles we assume they had back then. We will never know if people used what they did because of, “they don’t make ’em like they used to” mentality. Not that that is a bad thing, just a choice.

I went by the ONLY archery shop withing a 45 mile drive here, and the only SINGLE carbon arrow they had was a 7595 spine:shock: Just a mite stiff for my 55lb recurve.

I will try to save my pennies for some carbons. I do remember how frustrating bent arrows were, you reminded me.

Sorry for stealing the post, and thanks for all the help. I will post again on this when I can scrounge up the funds for some arrows.

[Raymond Coffman]

#37007

Dave – Dr Ed
I was looking in 3r catolog and saw CE “Pile Driver” shafting with “Built in Weight foward Technology” — sounds good .
anybody used these yet – thoughts?
Scout

[David Petersen]

#37059

Handirifle — do you have a nearby WallyMart? Ours here has individual CE shafts year-round,from $4 to $7 and often on sale for less. That’s how I got started with carbons, buying a handful on sale. They use a different spine coding than normal, like 45-65 rather than 250. But it’s a bit of a hassle since they come with aluminum inserts and plastic vanes. I sliced off the vanes and replaced with feathers, and the shafts come long enough, 32″ I believe, to cut off the alum insert and replace with brass. Come to think of it, it’s probably not worth the hassle. I think Archery Past, Dave Doran, will sell single shafts, bare or with feathers. I recently bought a half dozen CE 250s from him, fletched with banana cut feathers and loaded up the front ends for the first UFOC arrows, and some of the best shooting, I’ve been able to build. I shoot mid-50s pound bows.

[Ed Ashby]

#37074

cyberscout wrote: Dave – Dr Ed
I was looking in 3r catolog and saw CE “Pile Driver” shafting with “Built in Weight foward Technology” — sounds good .
anybody used these yet – thoughts?
Scout

I haven’t used any of the CE Pile Driver shafts but one of my friends, who is very switched on, did get some to try. His evaluation was that the only ‘weight forward technology’ was that they added a wrap to the forward portion of a regular parallel shaft. That’s why the fore shaft is patterned and the shaft’s rear left ‘bare’. Sounds like a sales gimmick to me. Not any significant advantage of a regular carbon of comparable GPI weight.

Dave’s right about Wally World. It’s is a great place to pick up shafts, especially at the end of season. I’ve picked up a number of individual shafts for trial arrows. They’ve usually been finished arrows with vanes, but at ‘close out’ they are still way less expensive than bare shafts would be, so I just strip the vanes off, replace the aluminum insert and, presto, a bare shaft for testing.

Ed

[Jason Wesbrock]

#37164

Dave,

With respect to aluminums, there are some advantages. Their spine and weight tolerances are tighter than carbons. Whether or not an archer can realize that advantage is a different discussion. Since Easton is the only real player in the aluminum arrow market, the shafts are very historically consistent: a 2117 is a 2117 is a 2117. The arrow shafts made today are of the same spine and weight specs as the those made 30+ years ago.

Unfortunately, carbon arrow manufacturers are all on different pages with respect to spine and weight. They also label their spine ratings differently, which can lead to some confusion if one wishes to switch from Beman to Gold Tip, Carbon Express, Victory, or one of the other brands.

With respect to bowhunting, I doubt there’s a legal game species on this continent or Africa that hasn’t been killed with an aluminum arrow, so they’re more than up to the task. That notwithstanding, I switched to carbons full time many years ago because I figured I’d spent enough time behind an arrow straightener to last a lifetime, and I wanted to shoot a durable arrow that was between eight and nine grains per pound. With my draw length, that’s not possible with aluminum.

[Raymond Coffman]

#37391

Dr Ashby –
Thanks, I figured as much on the ” Pile Driver” – the write up didn’t sound like it did, what they claimed.
Good Call on wally world, I just went down there and picked up some CE shafts.
Scout

[Ed Ashby]

#37429

Scout, wait until after all the hunting seasons are over and they are destocking at Wally World. I’ve picked up shafts that were almost a give away. I try to hit them every year to pick up shafts for testing.

Ed

[Raymond Coffman]

#37487

Doc – Roger that!
I just picked up a couple in different spine to experiment with–and then wait for the big sale to purchase what I need after following your very well written post on tuning. great call — wally world is every where [ for the good, and the bad – and I understand the bad – having lived in the “middle of nowhere in a couple places* ] I travel alot – and it is nice to know that I can pick up “ammo” if I need it! Yea, I carry the necessary items to rebuild an Arrow if required. they might not be pretty, but could save the day under dire circumstance -haha especially in the West! A lot fewer Trad Bow stores in easy reach– at least here in the SW.
Scout

* written up and documented according to the 1890-92 census
for the close of the “Frontier”– some of those places are still as they were** – 2 of which are – Sandhills of NE / and West Texas [ big bend area] I have lived/ worked in both – still almost as they were. Scary part – there are wally worlds -in easy reach of them !
too many people on the planet — good habitat is worth it’s weight in gold!

** no# of people per Sq Mile– NE still had local school houses — just like the Old West {until Recent} all ages –

[Raymond Coffman]

#37516

Nice new Icon David —
Going for the St Nick audience — I do understand – people are always asking me to stand in for him { white Hair and Beard }- and I get asked if- I ever won the Hemingway Contest in the Keys, HAHA — not as tactical however
Scout

[David Petersen]

#37551

Well danged,Scout, I haven’t even posted, until now, since I changed it earlier today. Had no idea that it apparently goes back and changes on every post I’ve made here. Yeah, I guess it is sort of out of season with the winter garb. But I thought we’d seen more than enough of Dave in war paint and time for the kinder, gentler me, ho-ho. I’d be the world’s skinniest Santa. And poor old Blitzo etc. or whatever Santa’s caribou are called … 8) I’d have to start practicing for aerial targets.

[Raymond Coffman]

#37690

Maybe Robin [ The web Mom] was having a lil fun with you.
the night before christmas and all thru the house – not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
dasher -dancer -prancer- vixen -comet -cupid -donner and Blitzen + rudolph — it is scary sometimes what one remembers –haha
I don’t know, it kinda fits better with the Web Mentor personna. The ” old man of the mountain” [wizard] –so to speak.
Scout

[Ed Ashby]

#37705

cyberscout wrote:
dasher -dancer -prancer- vixen -comet -cupid -donner and Blitzen + rudolph — it is scary sometimes what one remembers

Scout, I’ll bet it was Gene Autry that made it impossible for you to forget those. That’s what did it for me, and you’ve got them in the correct order too!

Ed

[wildschwein]

#37735

Dave no offense taken. My reasoning is as follows…

1 dozen Carbon Express Heritage shafts = $84.99
1 dozen Easton Legacy shafts = $65.98

That is the main reason I shoot aluminium. Plus they give me a 10.6 grain per pound arrow out of my 43# bow (arrow wieght 307, adapter 25, broadhead 125), without having to buy expensive inserts. Also I have found them much easier to tune than carbon.
Now don’t get me wrong, I fully understand and endorse the lessons learned from Mr Ashby’s research. I just can’t justify spending that kinda money on arrows. So until I can, I will stick to 20 yard shots on Deer and Bear (10 on anything bigger), with ethical shot selection. My setup may not be optimal for Moose, but I would have no issue taking a ten yard shot, fully broadside with leg forward.

[Raymond Coffman]

#38191

Dr Ashby —
Yes Sir – I believe you are correct. I also can sing most of the TV westerns from 50s-60s too, haha. My friends say I would of had a great mind, if I hadn’t filled it with trivia—
Scout

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