MFX carbon/Tuffhead build suggestions

[tombow]

#5989

I have evolved into a trad bowhunter by choice and lately by experience. You’ve probably seen my spewings on the 225 gr. Tuffhead on wood shafts. Love the beauty of the wood shafts but the durability has not been good. For the record: 4 deer taken with 5 shots, 2nd deer was spined, then lunged and neither of the shafts were broken until I used one to kill my buck. Have some Mag.Snuffers so I pulled one of the adapters, thinking I might be able to glue it onto a Tuffhead and use it with some MFX carbons that have been neglected since Wood came to town. The insert came out to 25 grains, which would equate to 250gr with my tuffhead added. My concern is the skinny shaft compared to the larger diameter insert. I would guess I might have splitting of the carbon at impact.

To all you gurus that have helped to guide a poor ignorant fledgling such as myself, would you once again lay some wisdom on me on and provide suggestions on how I might put this together and avoid destroying the carbons?

I’m just saying, it all most makes a feller cry when he sees them purdy wood shafts all busted up. But I am not saying I don’t like the results, Oh Contraire mon frere!

Thanks in advance.

Me again.

[jpcarlson]

#51493

Tombow,

I’ll add my two cents. I have been shooting the tuffhead 300’s on easton axix nano shafts. I’m at about 32%FOC with my set up. The small diameter is a problem. All of that energy when the arrow hits something hard has caused a couple of my carbons to start splintering directly behind the adaptor (using a steel 125 gr adaptor, 75gr brass hidden insert) David P. has a thread somewhere here talking about footing the shaft for added strength. I recommend you read it as there are some good ideas he has been trying with smooth on epoxy. Myself, I “served” the shaft about 2.5″ down from the insert end and have had good results. The only drawback I am still dealing with is arrow removal out of targets because of the diameter difference between the heads and the shaft. The serving seems to help this a bit too, but there must be a better way out there.

Let me know what you find

J

[jpcarlson]

#51497

Here is another angle. Dave P. likes to go down the shaft about 4″. I have had good results so far, repeat so far:), with 2.5″, but i may start doing the 4″.

J

[Raymond Coffman]

#52149

Tombow-JP

I use a black Layered foam tgt that is narrow in the shooting center[the block]and less expensive than some. My arrows are trapped by it, but the heads protrude so I can unscrew them if of the type too difficult to pull back thru. There is a field point{3Rs} for Carbons that is tappered on the back as well as the front for easier removal.

Carbon collars work well in my stump/small game arrows to help keep them from splitting. When I miss in hard ground or hit fire hardened/dry stumps here in the SW.

Scout

[tombow]

#55423

My broadhead target of choice is one of those cheap Ethafoam jobs, about 3″ thick so broadhead penetration is always complete and allows unscrewing of the head (when shooting carbons o’ course). The issue will be with non-broadheads as the ferrule will be of significantly larger diameter and I go cheap on non-broadhead targets by filing a large heavy duty plastic bag with plastic sheeting scrap from work. The diameter difference becomes a problem because the sheeting tends to wrap around the shaft. Blunts work fine, as do heavy field points but getting them out can be a problem. The serving job on the shaft looks impressive. Gonna have to figure this one out. Any more suggestions peoples?

[Raymond Coffman]

#55472

Tombow –

Yes I shoot a similar FP target and find the rear tapered FPs from 3Rs work best [Boat tailed Field pt] I hold near the hit and pull.

Scout.

[tom-wisconsin]

#56575

Some say they use a big load of sand to practice with the broadheads.

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#60299

I glue a 1″ piece of 2018 aluminum shaft around the front of all my MFX arrows, and it’s really working for me with the Abowyer Brown Bear heads:

[tombow]

#61103

Alex,

What inserts do you use with the Brown Bears? And weight of the head is what with the inserts? I have some 400’s and some 500 Bemans and probably some 2018 or 2016’s in the ain’t usin’ ’em no more box that I could cut up. Trying to work on the insert combination with my 225 gr. Tuffheads.

Thanks for the info ‘n Happy New Year.

TomBow

‘er TomLONGBow

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#61163

TomBow,

I use 400’s with 50gr brass inserts, 175gr brown bear, and 43gr aluminum adapters,

Once I lose or break my last 400, I will get 340’s with regular ( lighter) aluminum inserts, and 100gr steel adapters, still with the Brown Bear head.

Sometimes, this carbon arrow number game gets to be annoying, so I pull out my Hex shafts from Whispering wind that are great and fly like my MFX

Happy New Year to you!!

Alex

[David Petersen]

#61203

Alex, Dr.Ashby’s studies show such a dismal failure rate with aluminum inserts that he has said they are the weakest link in any arrow system that uses them. I encourage you to switch to steel or brass before going after elk again.

Jay — I got the 4″ as minimal effective length from Ed Ashby, but we were talking wood arrows and that’s what I’ve been experimenting with. So far the Sitka spruce 4″ Smooth-On “socks” have proven indestructable. In straight-on impact tests with Ace blunts shooting in fire hardened trees that tend to bounce the arrows back, they have held up better than carbons, with tend to splinter under such intense impact. I’ve also wrapped some POC shafts back 4″ with synthetic sinew and one with serving thread, much like yours. First the thread or sinew, then two thin coats of TiteBond III (waterproof), and finally a spray of polyurethane. I did break one of the sinew-backed shafts, but it was due to a glancing blow mid-shaft. That’s what we often see when reinforcing the business end of a wood shaft–they break farther back. And that’s why Ed recommends 4″ minimum reinforcement. In the past I’ve used aluminum shafting to reinforce the fronts of 11/32 wood shafts (can’t recall the size but maybe 2413?), sort of a longer version of what Alex is using, and they worked well. But I didn’t like the setup, for no particular reason, and removed the sleeves. King Wouldbe has for years used carbon shafts reinforced with aluminum and he shoots some seriously tough Hogzillas with no breakage problems so far as I know. More ways than one to skin a cat and the search for the perfect arrow setup, for most of us, is even more unresolvable than the search for the perfect bow — simply because they’re so much fun to play, uh I mean experiment, with. 😀

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#61749

Dave,

Are you talking about the inside arrow insert or the broadhead adapter? my aluminum inserts are one inch all the way inside the collar of shaft and enveloped by carbon shaft and 1018 aluminum. Nothing ever happens to them. I’ve shot arrows into rocks and trees, and yes, I had steel adapters bent at 90%, along with points or broadheads, but the inserts just stay… inserted… inside the shaft. Nothing happens to the insert unless a shaft explodes at impact. 🙂

[tombow]

#62281

Here’s what I am looking at:

Current arrows I am using are Sitka Spruce woods, about 70-74 spine, cut to 29.5″, nock valley to BOP, with 225 gr. Tuffheads. Total arrow weight is in the 620’s. Flight is good. Durability, in their unprotected state has been poor. I mean, I put these hand crafted beauties together, only to have the delicious venison break them off on trees or fall on them. The back of my mind also has the issue of quicker paradox recovery with carbons vs. slower recovery with woods. So that is the reason that I am “fishing in the pond” by starting this whole durned thread. Maximum penetration is really my ultimate goal. More thoughts on this?

Thanks for putting up with me, I do appreciate your patience.

TomBow

[David Petersen]

#62301

Tom — Sorry we got a bit off-topic. Your Sitka setup is nearly identical to mine, except my shafts are 82-85 spine and I’m using 300 Tuffheads for total weight around 735; 23/64 shaft diameter. Best-shooting arrows I own, even better than carbons and don’t ask me why. I wouldn’t worry about shafts breaking because an animal runs past a tree or falls over on one. The CE Heritage 250 carbons I use break just as readily as woods under those circumstances. It’s breakage when arrow strikes bone and penetration is still happening that we need to guard against, which is not uncommon with wood shafts and heavy-boned animals like elk and moose. And they tend to break not far behind the head. That’s why I’m experimenting with different reinforcements from behind the head to 4″ down the shaft. This past season I killed a small yearling cow and the broadhead barely nicked the back of the scapula, where the bone is thin and soft. I don’t know what else was going on in there but the SS shaft broke about an inch behind the head, seriously limiting penetration. By good fortune it was a heart shot and even the poor penetration was enough to get that very long head deep into the heart, while the rest of the shaft just feel out. Had it been a lung shot I might have had a wounded animal on my hands. So yet again, my equipment choices are further limited by ethics that arise from real experiences in the field. Either I’ll find a way to keep the woods from breaking, or I’ll return to carbons. Right now I”m very pleased with just coating the shafts 4″ with about 1/32″ layer of Smooth-On. And it’s all but invisible so doesn’t spoil the looks of crafted arrows. Not sure yet about the sinew wrapping and TiteBond3, but it sure looks cool.

[Ptaylor]

#30516

Dave,

Do you coat your wood shafts with the field point on, or before you mount the point/head? And, do you coat it just a little forward so that the point/head will overlap slightly with the coated section?

What exactly is Smooth-on, and where do you get it?

preston

[David Petersen]

#30553

Preston — The ones I’ve done, I put on Tuffhead big brass field points and wrapped them with blue (masking) tape carefully to the very back of the point but not onto the wood. I also wrapped eached shaft with tape back 4″. Then I painted on the finish as evenly as possible and hung them point-down to let the finish harden. When it had set up enough not to run I peeled off the tape (wearing rubber gloves). Once completely dry I was able to carefully heat the heads off, to be replaced with broadheads. It’s a tricky business as if you get the finish too far forward you won’t be able to seat the heads all the way. And if you have even a sliver of wood between the finish and the head, that’s a perfect weak spot for breakage. But it can be done and so far in my testing–generally shooting heavy blunts into fire-hardened trees at sharp angles–I’ve had no failures. Smooth-on is a popular epoxy bow finish that’s very viscous. Gradually these footings have acquired scratches and gone a bit milky, but they do work. My concern is the inability to get the finish on with precise evenness all around a shaft, or to get the precise weight of finish from shaft to shaft. At this point I’m about ready to return to my starting point years ago and foot my wood shafts with aluminum arrow tubing. Best luck.

[Ptaylor]

#32513

Thanks Dave. I’ve already broken one of my pretty wood shafts, right behind the head hitting a rock. Reading old threads it seems like that and the inability to get over 19% FOC for woods are the main problems with wood. I’ll have to look into the Smoot-on and aluminum footings.

By the way- Thanks for that tip of plumbers tape for screw-ins, I’ve been frustrated by that problem for way too long, and such an easy fix was like “Duh! Why didn’t I think of that”:D

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