Kingwouldbe & Tuffhead

[kingwouldbe]

#5921

My eye’s where heavy, as I only got 3 hours of sleep last night, @ 3:30 I was jumping into Vance’s truck heading to ” Juevos wall ” a spot we had hunted a few weeks earlier.

Juevos wall is supper steep, but it’s open and we can glass a lot of country, right off the bat I spotted a herd of hogs on the wall over a mile away, they where fighting and kicking up a lot of dust. we decided to drive on top of the wall and set up to cut them off before they went to bed, as we got on top we ran into another herd, jumped out and went after them.

This same herd suckered us two weeks earlier to follow them down the back side wall for an 8 mile round trip, I side hilled this time, not wanting to commit to going down after them, I saw Bart and Vance making hand signals to me ( thought they where going down after them ) as I kept side-hilling not wanting to go down for nothing; I said to my self, self, this is a suckers be,t get out of here.

As I was approaching the top of the ridge, I heard a truck go by but it was out of sight, when I got to the top I looked over where the truck was parked and it was gone, they took off with out me…… I knew where they whir going and as I came around the top of the ridge I could see the truck about 500 yards away and Vance and Bart where going down to glass the herd.

I was not to upset I only had 500 yards to catch up to them, I had not gone 200 yard when all hell broke loose straight down below me, the boars where still fighting right below me, I dropped off the ridge and was moving pretty fast because I knew they whir down a ways, the sound was rising and I thought they whir closer than they whir, 400 yards latter and I had a them spotted, I took out a TUFFHEAD tipped arrow and moved to my right and kept going down hill as I watched the fight rage on.

Vance and Bart could see me the whole time, Vance said to Bart; Dave’s got-um, Bart said how do you know? Vance said I know! Vance and I have been hunting 20+ years and have hundreds of kills together, He is truly a hunting buddy of a lifetime, they could see me but not the herd.

As I got closer and closer I was planning my shot, I knew the herd and the wind was moving from my left to right, I slipped into a spot so the herd would pass just below me, I took off my pack, and Vance Said to Bar,t he’s going to shoot now, as the herd came straight below me I started to put some tench-en on the string, The biggest boar was right below me and there was nothing between me and the whole herd but grass, about 6″ tall, just as I was starting to come to full draw I heard something to my right, I looked just in time to see my pack starting to roll and was headed straight at the herd, I grabbed it before it could complete it’s first roll.

I tried to push it into the hill, but it was to steep, it would not stay, and every time I took my hand off of it, it would start to roll, as I was trying to screw it into the hill side, the whole herd looked right at me, except the big boar was looking at the fat sow he had won, I said, you got to shoot now, there going to blow out of here any second.

I took my hand off the pack and grabbed the string coming to full draw in one motion, the boar was still standing there flat footed as the arrow streaked down hill like a bird of pray bent on it’s target, the arrow was heading straight for where my eye was fixed, striking with a thud, his first move was away and down hill I could see he was hurt right away, the problem was there was a lot of shaft sticking out, but it was right in the pocket, I thought you might of got heart.

I throw my glasses up right away to see where the arrow was sticking out of, YES! it’s right in the pocket, I watched him move slowly but steadily after the herd, he was hurt bad, as he went out of my sight he came into Vance and Bart’s sight, Vance could see the arrow and where the hit was, he told me latter the boar was struggling to get to the oak trees and the arrow was hitting the hill as he walked because of how steep it was.

The whole herd ran through the oaks and he stayed behind, after a few minuets Vance heard him rolling down hill, I came over the ridge and he gave me hand signals that he was in the oaks.

Vance crossed the canyon over to me and we sat there for another hour as I smoked my victory cigar, I wanted to give it more time to die, as nothing good could come from us bumping it from it’s bed, it was already dead when we finely tracked it down, and yes, it was him that Vance heard rolling down hill, we figured he died in his bed and it took gravity a few minuets to pull him down hill.

He broke the arrow as he rolled down hill snapping it @ 9 1/4″ with blood up another 2″ around the shaft, not a lot of penetration, yet on a Boar of this caliber, I’ll take it.

[kingwouldbe]

#45924

This is just his skin, not muscle. 😯

[kingwouldbe]

#45925

You can see a few of his scars

[kingwouldbe]

#45927

The New Tuffhead

[kingwouldbe]

#45935

http://youtu.be/jWF_FMVTJ1Q

That’s a link to a video we made, rank amateurs

[Ed Ashby]

#45956

There’s that GORGEOUS fletching again. It looks SO FAMILAR. 😛

Next to a buffalo that’s about as good an animal as one can possibly get to test out a broadhead on. Keep up the good work King.

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#46017

Doc. I got a quiver full of them gorgeous fletching.

I gave up on the BIG helical fletch, it only masked good arrow flight,it also sounded like a flu-flu.
With good EFOC I don’t need much to guide my flying hammer 😯

[David Petersen]

#46037

David — You must have X-ray vision to have center-punched that heart so perfectly. Maybe you should change your name to Supermanwouldbe. 😆 Or the Indian version: Seesthroughpig. Sure do enjoy your hunt stories, broadhead performance reports, and esp. those gorgeous bloody photos. But where’s the cigar? Dave

[kingwouldbe]

#46064

Well Dave, I already smoked it 😆 I was a little nervous about this one, I knew he was big and strong, he went about 200 yards with that hole in his heart 😯 I smoked a cigar trying to be patient to let the arrow do it’s job, it already had and Vance heard it roll, I was just not taking any chances on bumping him.

I bought those X-ray glasses in the back of the magazine, they work great, only $2 a pair 🙄 lol

Thanks Bro….

[Ed Ashby]

#46077

Dang, I remember seeing those X-ray glasses in the back of comic books … 50+ years ago. Knew I should have bought some. 😕

Ed

[ozzyshane]

#46481

David what was your arrow and bow set up it was kind of hard to pick it up in the vid he is a great hog Thnaks Shane

[Steertalker]

#46598

King,

Very nice hog and story!!! Was curious though…did you have any problems mounting you Toughheads?? I just bought a half dozen and was trying to set up a couple for my September elk hunt. I found that the ferrals are slightly oval which makes it pretty difficult to get the broadhead adapters in straight where the BH will spin true. Comments???

Brett

[kingwouldbe]

#46747

Thanks guys, I’m just a Hog-aholic, I can’t stop.

My arrow was wrong in the video, I miss spoke, it was a 660 grain total arrow weight, out of a 60lb Centaur chimera 58″ I am working on a 742 grain arrow

I had no problem mounting the broadhead, I used hot melt, I did push hard to get them seated, but I always push real hard, some times slamming them down a few time on my bench, they spin like a top.

The hole the Tuffhead put into the heart still amazes me

[Steertalker]

#46757

King,

I just talked to Joe Furlong about my problem and he’s sending me new BH’s…no charge. Now that is what I call customer service:wink: Anyway…he thinks my first batch may have had some problems.

Brett

[David Petersen]

#46791

Brett — Hmmmm. I have mounted half a dozen, on both woods and with screw-in inserts. All are flawless and spin/fly perfectly. Yeah, Joe’s the real deal and worthy of our support. dp

[Ed Ashby]

#46803

David, is the arrow you used one with the multiple external footings or does it have just a single, short external footing?

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#47299

Doc. on this arrow I only have one footing about 3″.

I did make some up with internal and external footings, but they came out to stiff, so I have those saved for when the Tuffhead gets the 300 + 125 insert, then Katti bar the door.

Ed have you seen this type of hole before? it looked like a quarter of the heart was pealed open, yet I could close it all back, it did not look like it was sliced multiple times like I first though.

[ozzyshane]

#47305

David maybe the arrow hit right as the heart was expanding and it poped as it looks like it is a rip to to left of were the head entered .Thansk Shane

[kingwouldbe]

#47307

Steertalker wrote: King,

I just talked to Joe Furlong about my problem and he’s sending me new BH’s…no charge. Now that is what I call customer service:wink: Anyway…he thinks my first batch may have had some problems.

Brett

OUTSTANDING, Joe is top notch Brett, now you just have to get that Bull Elk and show us.

[Ed Ashby]

#47338

David, go to the article on “Why Single Bevels” (here’s the link: https://www.tradbow.com/members/223.cfm) and check out photos number 17 and 18. That’s the classic ‘L-shaped cut’ that single bevels often give. Besides on some exits I’ve seen it on hearts, kidneys and livers. On the 1″ wide modified Grizzly the 2 sides of the L-cut (combined length of each leg of the cut) usually measure very close to 2″, often a bit over that.

The somewhat longer length of the TuffHead SHOULD give an even larger L-Shaped cut, due to increased tissue ‘windup’ around the blade.

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#47894

Doc. I remember seeing and reading that article, I have seen it on the hides of some animals, just never on a heart, and the hole in his heart was about 2″ just like in your study.

How on earth could I fake the same thing you faked in your study 😯 Did I say that out loud ………………..OH! that’s right you did not fake anything, you just reported your findings.

That’s amazing that I could get the same results as you got on a buffalo, I will say; that on a hog of this size, I want more penetration, the Tuffhead did go right through the thickest part of his shield and that stuff is so hard, there is no doubt in my mind, that if I was using a wider or a 3 or 4 blade head, I would of never made it into the vitals of this dude, his shield just eats up anything that tries to penetrate it.

It would of been another big boar story about the one a guy hit perfect yet, they never found it, ( I hear that story way to often )I find it absolutely amazing how tough a big boar is.

As I have said before, you can kill smaller or immature boars with some really light tackle, and your arrow will jump through them like budder, however as they age they begin to grow a shield, and it gets thicker and thicker, this boar was around 7-8 years old, there last set of molars don’t come out until the 5th year and his where wore down.

If your looking for a meat pig shoot one under a 100lb, this dude smells like the Coliseum urinal @ half time, um strong smelling if you get my drift.

[Ed Ashby]

#48048

David, this is an excellent example of why close examination of the soft tissue damage is just as important as taking note of the ‘hard tissue’ performance. The more you look the more interesting things you’ll find. The single bevel’s L-Shaped cut is only common on exit skin, the heart, liver and kidneys. ‘Mushing’ of lung tissue is a common feature, often creating a ‘hole’ rather than a slice.

I hope it isn’t often that you get the chance to see it (and you have to look closely for it to see it; I had to use a dye injected into the intestine to find all the cuts) but the ‘starburst’ cut that single bevel heads often make through the intestines is truly impressive. It represents more damage to the intestinal tissues (and vessels) than that caused be either a double-bevel, wide cut 3-blade or double-bevel, wide cut 4-blade; something like a snuffer or a Delta 4-balde.

Ed

[Troy Breeding]

#48177

King,

If you don’t mind go futher in depth on your arrow discription. I don’t mean to sound like I’m just looking to copy or anything. I’m interested in the brand, length, insert, footing, feather setup and most of all what your draw length is.

I’m just really getting into high EFOC and UEFOC arrows and I’m having trouble getting anthing close to what you have. Currently I’m using Beman Bowhunter 300 shafts. I have some of the 100gr brass inserts on order so to compensate I’m using the standard 21gr alum. insert and 80grs of GT weights behind. So far I have managed to get everything working pretty good using a 250gr point on a 32-1/8″ shaft. My total weight right now is 670grs. Ed pointed out that I could increase my EFOC by dropping the wrap and three 4″ feathers and going to a smaller fletch. He was dead on, my EFOC went from 24.4% to 26.4% when I only used three 2-1/4″ feathers. I may have trouble with this setup when I try shooting a broadhead. If so, I will try going to a four fletch, even if I have to up the feather length to 3″.

Currently I’m shooting a 55# bow of my design and I have a 29-29.5″ draw.

Any help would greatly be appreicated.

Troy

[kingwouldbe]

#49423

Troy Breeding wrote: King,

If you don’t mind go futher in depth on your arrow discription. I don’t mean to sound like I’m just looking to copy or anything. I’m interested in the brand, length, insert, footing, feather setup and most of all what your draw length is.

I’m just really getting into high EFOC and UEFOC arrows and I’m having trouble getting anthing close to what you have. Currently I’m using Beman Bowhunter 300 shafts. I have some of the 100gr brass inserts on order so to compensate I’m using the standard 21gr alum. insert and 80grs of GT weights behind. So far I have managed to get everything working pretty good using a 250gr point on a 32-1/8″ shaft. My total weight right now is 670grs. Ed pointed out that I could increase my EFOC by dropping the wrap and three 4″ feathers and going to a smaller fletch. He was dead on, my EFOC went from 24.4% to 26.4% when I only used three 2-1/4″ feathers. I may have trouble with this setup when I try shooting a broadhead. If so, I will try going to a four fletch, even if I have to up the feather length to 3″.

Currently I’m shooting a 55# bow of my design and I have a 29-29.5″ draw.

Any help would greatly be appreicated.

Troy

Hi Troy,
I am currently shooting the goldtip ultralight 300 @ 29″ I draw 28″ I foot the arrow with 3″ of 2117 aluminum shaft, I also put a 60 grain brass screw from the hardware store, you get 4 for $1.00 into the back of the insert, I shoot 4×2″ feather cut straight about a half inch tall, with high EFOV and a tuned arrow you do not need a lot of fletching, my arrow flies silently down range.

I am also working on the same arrow cut to 28 1/4 and 5″ of 2117 external footing and 6″ of carbon shaft internal footing, I want to get to 35% or more UEFOC, I might try 4×1″ to see what happens, I was shooting a 750 grain arrow with high EFOC in the rain and the fletch lay-ed down and my arrow was still flying perfectly.

If your arrow is tuned and you have good shooting form you do not need vary much fletching, has been my observation, which if you would of told me a few years ago when I was shooting 5″ helical, I would of laughed at you, some time it’s not easy to change the standard, or “this is the way we have always done it mentality”.

Hope this helps
David

[Ed Ashby]

#49518

Kingwouldbe wrote: some time it’s not easy to change the standard, or “this is the way we have always done it mentality”.

That is, perhaps, the truest statement I’ve ever seen posted.

Ed

[wildschwein]

#49538

I agree that very little fletch is needed with a properly tuned arrow, but I will continue shooting 5.5″ shield helical because it makes the arrow so much easier to see. And watching my arrow in flight is for me definately one of the biggest attractions to traditional archery.

[reddirt]

#49971

Great story and pig! That shield photo is telling! 😯

[Troy Breeding]

#49990

King,

Thanks for the information. Wish I could find a place like yours around here to hunt hogs. Thats the bigest thing I miss about moving from AL.

I did manage to get one arrow into the UEFOC range. However, it tipped the scales at 888grs. If I was still in AL where I could hunt tough hogs it wouldn’t be a problem.

I did have to change my fletching. The three 2-1/4″ wouldn’t correct the wind sheer from the Zwickey Delta I used to test with. I figured if the fletching would handle the Delta it would easily handle the narrower single bevel I’ll be hunting with. I now have three 3″ feathers on and it’s shooting fine.

I’m going to try some of the GT Ultralites. Droppng that extra grain per inch should help with overall weight.

Troy

[kingwouldbe]

#50148

http://youtu.be/GO1U_bnUyzk

This link is a penetration test we did, 😯

[Troy Breeding]

#50486

That is one wild video!!!

Troy

[Ed Ashby]

#50502

“Buffalo Arrows” are not at all out of place on hog of that class. “In bowhunting there’s no such thing as overkill” 😀

Ed

[Steve Sr.]

#51004

wildschwein wrote: I agree that very little fletch is needed with a properly tuned arrow, but I will continue shooting 5.5″ shield helical because it makes the arrow so much easier to see. And watching my arrow in flight is for me definately one of the biggest attractions to traditional archery.

Technically speaking, all Doc’s info on the A&A fletching is indeed completely accurate and I made and shot some UEFOC arrows that flew beautiflly using them.

I gotta admit that I agree with Wild here though. It isn’t, for me, ALWAYS about “best”, or even most efficient.

As I posted in a previous thread, quite often a lot of things will work and while there is a slight gain with the smaller fletching……I’ll take the one most pleasing to my eye.

For decades, us trad hunters didnt give all this a thought and only color of fletchings was the main decision to make. Not many of us are left that recall going to the hardware store and picking up “a set of arrows” that was marked for your bow weight…..in whatever color fletching you wanted and you went hunting! Weight? FOC? Broadhead “type”? Huh? 😆

Due to Doc’s life of sharing his work and multiple materials we now have “options” many going with the information he has shared in totality and this too would be my choice should I be stalking beasties like King here is hunting. 😯 EXCELLENT stuff, King! Gotta love it!!

A short word to readers I feel important based on multiple threads on various sites.

Doc himself has posted that this info is for YOU to pick and choose from to fit your hunting needs and preferences. It is NOT, as I see bantered way too often a “take all or nothing” gift from Doc.

I’ve learned SO much from the Report that has heightened and increased the confidence in my set up that that allows me to take shots that I would have passed up only a few years back! A good example? I will NOW, with my current 25lb lighter bow and set up take shots (successfully)……that I would have passed up on 10 years ago with the 25lb heavier bow and set up!!

Now…..let me pause here. I can tell you with confidence there ARE some readers here that are thinking “well just wait for the good shots, the broadside or quartering ones”.

DOING SO, is indeed a fine and highly respected attitude but I only ask any of you feeling so to give this a few seconds of thought for that is all the longer is it going to take!

For those reading that feel “waiting for the perfect shot” is the WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE? I must ask this.

Why?

WHY has, for decades, that thought process been POUNDED into our heads?

You have the answer and you see it or you wouldn’t wait for those shots.

BECAUSE (before the Report) penetration WAS NOT SUFFICIENT nor DEPENDABLE. HAVING to wait for those shots are dead and gone on most of the big game animals yet still waiting for them is commendable should the hunter choose to.

It simply is MORE of the “some time it’s not easy to change the standard, or “this is the way we have always done it mentality” mentioned above but on another factor of our sport.

When I read that statement, I couldn’t help but think how it applies to ALL OF DOC’S REPORT! That is the barrier that Doc has needed to breach and you all know how hard THAT has been.

Don’t let YOURSELF be limited to doing so yourself.

Go with the full suggestions Doc has offered for those “harder than H to kill” beasts yet know that you can EASILY, as I do, gleen much useful information and make many gains only using PARTS of Doc’s offering.

They may be WOOD, They may have big ol same ol same ol shield fletchings (or bigger) but the FOC, broadheads mostly used and shaft shapes/ diameter sizes ARE results of my using Doc’s report for MY own uses and to fit MY own ideas of “what an arrow should look like”.

I’m the B*st*rd child of two worlds! I love the “old tried and true equipment” ammended to use Doc’s report to the fullest for my uses and often get “chastened” by either side telling me “I’m doing it wrong”.

There is no “wrong”. King has the need, and uses ALL information EXTREMELY well, once AGAIN proving the validity of Doc’s report. I just use the info carved from the report to fit my own “ultimate” arrow that , again for me, has to include a certain appearance.

It’s been said before but IMHO worth repeating. Each hunter can make improvements to his setup using Doc’s information WITHOUT abandanding ALL his “old thought processes”.

I stand as a living example and will gladly offer what little knowledge and my few experiences (growing annually!) at any time, by any method, with anyone whom hunts with a bow.

You don’t have to completely replace your current arrow arsonal to appreciate Doc’s lifetime work and once AGAIN……I bow in thanks and humility to Dr. Ed Ashby for it all!!!!!!

God Bless!
Steve Sr.
(I know , I know……..dang wordy ol goat!!!)

[MCuiksa]

#51077

When you say “my set up that that allows me to take shots that I would have passed up only a few years back”, what shots are you considering taking now that you would’ve passed on before?

[Steve Sr.]

#51104

I won’t banter that too much here being a bit off topic but the classic one I USED to pass up in the one with the scapula and leg being dead center of the kill zone.

Please keep in mind, MY shots are “normally” under 15 yards. While I’m sure you are refering to a straight on (facing) shot being “too small of a kill zone”, it is not, again for me, the size of the kill zone that would put me off on it.

At less than 15 yards and ground level I am flat not invisible enough to get to full draw for such a shot.

A short note too that Doc’s info didnt just educate me to FOC (which I prefer more for arrow flight than penetration) but also ARROW WEIGHT which is “more” the penetration factor IMHO along side broadhead shape and type.

It is the arrow weight and head’s of Doc’s specifications that give ME the confidence to not fear ANY PART of the whitetail skeleton should it incidently or purposely (yeah I said it) hit. Never the less, one always attempts to hit vitals without bone contact, yet I no longer “fear” it.

I’ve mentioned that alongside the Tuffhead I WILL hunt with the short, wide, horrible MA Goshawks of decades past. Will I pick and choose shots for that head? You bet.

Matching shot placement to confidence in your set up is, as mentioned, mandatory.

But……assuming where you are going with this, I will say this. Front quartering shots with heavy arrows at close range are NOW part of my “oh yes I will” shots. Been there, done that…..no problems.

I HIGHLY perfer a “too far forward” shot to one with even a chance of being too far back and while this is ONLY my preference, I will repeatedly AIM further forward now with the current arrow set ups compared to where I aimed before, for that very reason. I am not, in any way, suggesting it is for everyone, or even say it’s a great shot. I will say that it works……fine…….for ME.

Some disagree, and that is expected in any subject covered here but a quartering back shot with the front of the shoulder and leg being dead center of the kill zone is NOT a “small” target at 15 yards, ground level. In fact, an arrow angled BACK from a front quarter goes through MORE lung area than a broadside hit. Measure it yourself.

OUT OF A TREESTAND…a WHOLE different aspect of factors take effect so I must add that not only is this MY opinion, it is MY opinion of shots……GROUND LEVEL ONLY.

While they may or may not work from an elevated shot level…..I’ll stick with ground level. Looking at the same area from above compared to ground (eye) level (seated) the bone structure you’d need to pass through or even possibly hit is somewhat? a lot? heavier and while it would probably still work, I have little experience with that angle and hit so I wish to make that crystal clear.

This is for me, my setup, my super heavy arrows and my shooting ability…..only.

Again, a previous statement to add. “Confidence kills!” Use the equipment and take the shots YOU believe in and if in doubt……DONT! I am a firm believer that negative or doubting thoughts will betray you every time effecting every single aspect of your shot.

God Bless
Steve Sr.

[MCuiksa]

#51244

😯 😳

[jmsmithy]

#51662

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: There’s that GORGEOUS fletching again. It looks SO FAMILAR. 😛

Next to a buffalo that’s about as good an animal as one can possibly get to test out a broadhead on. Keep up the good work King.

Ed

Awesome King!! That’s a helluva piggie!!!! Congrats!!! :shock::lol:

[kingwouldbe]

#52223

Kingwouldbe wrote: http://youtu.be/GO1U_bnUyzk

This link is a penetration test we did, 😯

So sorry about all the movement, you get the unedited version as I don’t know how to do any editing, you might want to take a Dramamine pill first.

Check out my face at the end, I can’t believe how tough he is, now remember, I’m shooting a 60lb 58″ Centaur Chimera and a 640 arrow @ 6 yards and the 225 grain tuffhead, EFOC of 29% 😯

For me, regarding fletch size, the most important thing (after arrow flight of course ) is quite, when you do your hunting from the ground the animals are vary aware of whats going on around them and can react as fast as lightning.

My hunting buddy Vance and I have shot at each other from across canyon, we shoot past each other as we hide behind a large tree, ( in case one of us has a bow-gas-um, it will hit the tree ) you would not believe how laud a arrow flying in the quite out doors is, the arrow sounds like a flu-flu, I could get my fat butt out of the way before it hit me ( don’t try it though )most of the game animals are moving as we hit them in real life, it happens so fast our eye cant see it.

We think they moved after the shot, the truth is they hear the arrow coming, and start to move with the arrow just a few feet from them.

After going to this little A&A feather it is much quieter, and that’s what I want, “QUIT ARROW FLIGHT” creates less reaction in the game.

As I said in the story at the beginning, I caught him flat footed, he had 30 yards to hear the arrow coming, yet he sat there, with out a doubt, he did not hear it or it was vary quit as to not create a response in him to move.

[Ed Ashby]

#52329

David,

When I ‘pirated’ O.L.’s turbulator concept (from his flight arrows) and started adapting the concept to hunting arrows the main goal was to reduce the arrow’s noise, not to increase arrow speed … and not even as a way to up the FOC. How much difference in FOC it could make (at high FOC levels) didn’t dawn on me until I saw what happened when I reduced the fletching on an EFOC arrow.

Based on his aeronautical background, O.L. said that a square back, straight taper feather would create the least air turbulence and therefore less noise in flight. Nevertheless, there was a lot of experimentation with small fletching’s of different profiles before I was convinced that O.L. was correct (again :?).

Most of the sound evaluation was conducted much as you did; by hiding behind a wall or tree and then having the arrows shot past the observation point. A number of arrows were shot in each string and the observer would record his (or her) impression of the sound, without knowing which fletching pattern/profile was on each shaft. For ‘observers’ we used several people, ranging from experienced bowhunters to some who have never fired a bow.

The results were unanimous and clear cut. It truly is amazing how noisy most fletching is in flight. Once it is close to you the A&A pattern sounds much like a small bird flying by, real close to your head, but its approach is very silent up to that point, compared to every other fletching pattern tried.

Oh, almost forgot to mention that the testing was done with both traditional bows and compounds using a range of different arrow weights, in order to evaluate the effect of arrow speed on the sound. We also used both field points and broadheads, and some broadheads made more noise than the fletching! These were mainly broadheads with vented blades. For uniformity there was no mixing of bows, arrow weights or point types within any individual string of test shots. The testing was conducted across several months an in different weather conditions.

I think the results were worth the time and expense invested in the test. Like you, I found some fletching patterns so noisy in flight that I think I could almost ‘jump the string’ at 20 yards or so!

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#52450

Doc, that’s it….. you are now the mad scientist……..lol, I’m just a wouldbe hunter who gets to reap the benefits of guys like you and Adcock.

Is everything a test for you?….. I think you hunt with a slide ruler and a calculator in your back quiver, I don’t think that’s traditional…lol

I’m just teasing you…..like usual I don’t believe anything I hear and half of what I see….I have to prove it.

The first time I saw what an animal can do at the shot was the move Bowhunting October whitetails with the Wensals, they show a deer drop a full body’s width in 2/10th of a second, I could not believe what I saw.

We usually think they jumped the string, I think they usually jump the arrow.

Several years ago I shot at a buck coming from my left to my right on the ground @ 12 yards, I was shooting a 60lb Brackenberry with a 2117 arrow, zewicky broadhead and 3×5″ feathers, the buck had know idea I was there, he was able to do a compleat 180 turn and the arrow cought him in the oposit shoulder that I shot him in, as he ran away with the feathers sticking out of the opsit shoulder I was dumfounded as to what had just happend.

Really, it happened so fast I could not tell you what had just happend, when I found the buck the arrow was sticking out of the shoulder on his left side, if I had a high speed camera on him you would of saw him spin in his tracks and the arrow hit him on his opposit shoulder.

To me hogs are the fastest thing in the wild for the first 2 feet, it seem they don’t have to bend there knees to move, they just thrust them selves forward, or spin in there tracks, a quit arrow is a must.

P.S Doc. I have to make a cheet sheet for the things I need to do after the kill. I forget most of what I wanted to do until I get home.

[kingwouldbe]

#52452

Steve Sr…. well said my friend….. you gots lots of words in you 😀 good job

[Ed Ashby]

#52556

Kingwouldbe wrote: Doc, that’s it….. you are now the mad scientist……..lol, I’m just a wouldbe hunter who gets to reap the benefits of guys like you and Adcock.

Is everything a test for you?….. I think you hunt with a slide ruler and a calculator in your back quiver, I don’t think that’s traditional…lol

I think I resemble that remark!

I’ve had several experiences like what you describe, David. I had an impala do a total backflip and end up 5 yards from where my arrow struck. That was on a 15 yard shot, with an arrow having 6”, helical, parabolic cut 3-fletch.

My first Chobe bushbuck (which, to the best of my knowledge was the first taken by a modern bowhunter) wheeled and started to move before the arrow arrived and I hit it squarely through both hips. That arrow had the same fletching pattern. Fortunately it was a heavy Forgewood with a 190 Grizzly. It broke both hips, right through the ball joints, and severing the femoral arteries. The arrow hung by the fletching on the exit side. He went down right on the spot and expired in seconds. That was also the longest shot I’ve ever killed a big game animal on; 42 yards.

I had a hog in Australia do like your deer. It was an 18 yard shot at his RIGHT shoulder. The arrow hit mid gut on his LEFT side. Fortunately the arrow/broadhead did its job and he only traveled 160 yards before going down. That arrow had 4”, helical, parabolic 4-fletch.

I do seem to notice far less before-impact animal reaction to the shot since I started using the A&A fletching. I believe that the sound of the arrow in flight is (at least) as big a factor in before-impact animal reaction as is bow noise. However I want both my bow AND my arrow to be a silent as I can get them. I believe it does make a difference.

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#52576

Glad you understood my jesting 😀

I hear ya Doc. I had a coyote watch my arrow come for him and just duct as it got to him, and kept looking at me why I tried to reload, never got him

[Steve Sr.]

#52597

FOR THE RECORD…..and regardless of my visual preference of using big, same ol, same ol fletching…I do need to clarify that I agree with the “noise” factor discussed above.

A buddy and I did similar tests and the A&A fletching most certainly created some head scratching for us after taking turns shooting several sizes and shapes of fletching while the other stood (behind a tree!!) listening to arrows come and go by us.

Of those we tested, and there was several, there simply wasn’t even a close second as far as quiet flight.

So in retrospect…….I must admit (ahem) that I am just old and stuck in a rut on SOME things 😆 .

A silent (or close) arrow DOES make sense and this does indeed give you that and worth a try have you not yet done so.

Me? I just gotta see the arrow fly, and it is so much included in of my love for hunting that I cannot trade it in for even a better arrow performance.

I hope I didnt seem to be disagreeing before, I was not yet did voice an opinion and alternate reason for my choice in fletching.

God Bless
Steve Sr.

[David Petersen]

#52633

Uh, would someone kindly explain to this slow old guy what A&A fletching is? Who sells it, etc. Guess I’ve been napping. 😳 I’ve never had a problem with elk jumping the string; they’re remarkably calm unless alerted and I try to keep my shots under 15 yards. But I’m too embarrassed to admit how many shots, 20-25 yards on average, I’ve put over the backs of Coues whitetails as they ducked and spun when I released. Specializing in elk can make a guy lazy, which is why I’m so enjoying chasing whitetails again. Thanks, dummy Dave

[Steve Sr.]

#52636

It’s above, David, on King’s arrow…….those weenie little compoundISH looking things LOL

(no offense……joke)

It’s in Doc’s report somewhere. I’m sure Doc will point it out by memory.

A&A

Ashby and Adcock fletching

[wildschwein]

#52657

I couldn’t agree more with your folks tales of reaction times. Last year I managed to get three shots. The first was a whopper of a miss at a yearling Whitetail that was standing a little further than bow length away (coulda killed her with a spear). But the other two were both 30ish yard shots that didn’t connect becuase the Deer jumped/ducked my arrow. That being said I guess I’ll just have to get closer because even though I didn’t make a kill, it was one hell of a rush watching my arrow on its way to the Deer.

[Ed Ashby]

#52698

Here you go, Dave, more than you ever wanted to know about the A&A fletching. https://www.tradbow.com/members/cfmbb/messages.cfm?messageid=7C13AF38-1422-1DE9-EDA47CD627C7060A#7C13AF38-1422-1DE9-EDA47CD627C7060A

Ed

p.s. I always suspected that dedicated elk hunters were lazy; just wandering around all that easy to traverse country wher animal recover is so easy to accomplish! 😆

[Ed Ashby]

#52716

Steve, A&A is Adcock & Ashby. Top billing goes to the brain behind the design! All I did was up-size the concept and adapt it to hunting arrows.

Ed

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