Judging Distances

[James Harvey]

#6629

I was talking to some other bowhunters recently and the topic of JDs came up. As cheap and popular as laser rangefinders have become they don’t work in all situations and if you’re like me you don’t have one anyway 😉

I suppose instinctive shooters aren’t terribly interested in JDs (although the considerations of the appearance method could be considered) and most people have a method they are comfortable with and use that most of the time. If you’re not real hot at JDs (like me) it can be helpful to have a few methods and mental aids, more tools for the toolbox so to speak, so I thought I’d share a basic military lesson on JDs (modified slightly to be more relevant to archery)..

There are two main methods of judging distance:

Unit of Measure: to use this method, take a known distance in metres (or yards) as the unit and then estimate the number of units between the object/target.

Appearance: To judge distance by this method, one must learn to compare accurately the size of objects with their surroundings before deducing the distance to the object.

The appearance of an object is affected by:

The brightness of light which makes the object appear closer, whereas a dullness of light makes the object appear further away;

The size of the object in relation to its surroundings: if the vegetation is small, the object may appear closer;

Dead ground or valleys between observer and the object may make the object appear closer.

There are 4 main aids to judging distances:

Halving: Choose a point that appears half way to the target, estimate the distance to the point, then double it.

Bracketing: Say to yourself ‘the target could not be more than (x) metres nor less than (y) metres away’ then add (x) to (y) and halve the total (x+y, divide by 2).

Key Ranges: If the range to any point is already known, the distance to other objects can be estimated from it (this is particularly pertinent to tree stands or ground blinds, as you could pace out trees or rocks or any other features in your arcs ahead of time, using them as references when game moves through).

Group average: In the military this is typically getting the JD’s from a few personnel and averaging that. If you’re by yourself and have time, you can do the same thing using different methods or aids to your JD and getting an average from your different methods. That may not sound very workable but if you practice different methods you may surprise yourself at how quickly you are able to do it.

I’m a bit of a weirdo and find myself walking the dog or taking my kids to the park and doing some quick JDs then pacing them out to see how accurate I was. Practice makes perfect and I kind of find JD’s fun 😉

Does anyone else have other methods or mental tools they could add to the list (lasers and graticules don’t count!)?

Jim

[Ralph]

#53336

Hey Jim, maybe that’s why I never hit anything:D, I just look at it and shoot at it. How far????:?

[William Warren]

#53375

Jim, this is a great topic. In my regular haunts I usually know where 20 yds is to a tree or rock so I can figure from there when the deer show up. They never go and stand by my marker but having a mark helps when deciding to take the shot or not. Thanks for the tips too.

Duncan

[Ralph]

#53413

In all seriousness Jim, I have a habit of trying to guesstimate yardages all the time when I’m out and about. I do not think yardages when shooting my bows but when I shot wheels years ago (I saw strange colors then too sometimes :P) I used sights and the habit developed. I can see where to those who point gap or to those who string walk that it’s imperative to know distance. If I ever try to consciously use the tip of my arrow as a reference point in relation to my intended target I’m really screwed so I have no need to know yardages (meterages to you 😕 ). Be interesting to see how others do it or why they don’t.

[1shot]

#53734

I shoot by instinct and I do tell my self how far away my target is, but by the “5’s”, 5-10-15-20-25-30 in the pre-shot sequence.

I’ll pick an object, guess the range and pace it off while out and about to stay in “tune”.

I’m also one of those guys that can read long yardages pretty good to the amazement of myself and friends(varified by lazer), and time checks are uncanny since I don’t wear a watch. Blessed??? VooDoo??? I haven’t a clue hehehe

Guessing yardage across canyons is harder, but what works for me is to cup my hands around my eyes,kinda making ‘air binos” to block out all but the target object.

While guessing miles away in the desert/mountains, there is an old desert-rat saying “take your first guess, then times it by 2” to account for ups and downs in the terrain.

(There are plastic covered range cards in most of my set-ups, either glassing points or r^$%e stands for quick reference)

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#53907

pretty cool stuff, Jim! Me, I shoot first, judge later! 😀

I shoot an arrow, and then walk to it counting my ballpark 1 yard steps.

[Col Mike]

#54276

Jim–It appears that the grunts down under are a lot more thoughtful then those of us on the topside of the world.:D

I use the rock method–If I can throw a rock (with no parabolic loop involved) it must be in range.8) Good stuff though.

Mike

[grumpy]

#54312

Good topic. Was clueless, now I think I know something.:D

[1shot]

#55148

colmike wrote: Jim- I use the rock method–If I can throw a rock (with no parabolic loop involved) it must be in range.

hehehe ColMike, My mother used to say to me ” You get so excited about hunting, I’d bet if there was a rock throwing season you boys would be out practicing”…

Sad thing is, she wasn’t wrong…

[archer38]

#55650

I’ve heard Fred Eichler say that when he shoots a recurve, he doesn’t need to know the distance. Its like throwing a ball, you just know how far to shoot. But, when he uses a compound, he needs a range finder. He doesn’t know what sight pin to use unless he has the actual distance !

Am I the only one who thinks this is weird……but at the same time, understands it !?!?

[David Coulter]

#56237

When I set up a stand I have my comfort max in mind. When I’m in the stand I know where my boundary is so I don’t have to guess myself when I need to focus. I’m still in the finding out how that works stage! dwc

[Jason Wesbrock]

#56312

What an excellent topic. Thanks for posting it.

[ChumpMcgee]

#56316

When I am out practicing I never look at the yardage…or at least try not to look at the yardage. I have an public outdoor range that I go to and I practice at verity of different “steps”. I will shoot from 10-40 steps when I practice. Sure this is a rough way to calculate distances and yes I do use this when hunting whitetail. When I find an area where I want to hunt I will set up my blind and then step from the worst case scenario shot (furthest distance) and I will step it off and see how far away it is.

I did that this year and successfully harvested a doe. When it came to shoot thou the yardage was not even a factor to me, it never crossed my mind I saw the doe point and shoot. I am sure that stepping it off was some insurance to me that I knew I could make the shot but like I mentioned before it never crossed my mind when I pulled the bow back.

[grumpy]

#56456

Archer38 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks this is weird……but at the same time, understands it !?!?

Nope! I think it is weird that I ever hit the target, at any distance. Keep thinking “This should be harder.” On the other hand, I’m just pointing at the target, and I’ve been pointing fingers for a long, long time….

[Col Mike]

#56595

1shot wrote: [quote=colmike]Jim- I use the rock method–If I can throw a rock (with no parabolic loop involved) it must be in range.

hehehe ColMike, My mother used to say to me ” You get so excited about hunting, I’d bet if there was a rock throwing season you boys would be out practicing”…

Sad thing is, she wasn’t wrong…

David–Yes got in a lot of trouble throwing rocks. Trad weapons– have you tried throwing sticks. Great fun and I have actually gotten a couple of grouse and doves with them.

Semper Fi

Mike

[1shot]

#56707

Mike- Rabbits with split pieces of oak from the woodpile, we would whittle them down to rounder edges and walk the field edges trying to find them sunning themselves right after milking time… Ahhh the joys of boyhood, Yaknow my friends would give me the “He has finaly lost it, wackadoo look ” if I left the bow in the truck and tried this today…. Hehehe might just take a morning off bowhunting and do it…

[James Harvey]

#58271

I really enjoy reading the different methods fellas use even when it is just point and shoot. I reckon JD’s are an artform, you can use whatever tools you like but there is no right or wrong way of doing it. Our snipers have even more sophisticated methods of JD than those I listed above, but even they have a recognised method called “the force”, which is basically just having a subconsciously informed guess. “The force” is stronger in some than in others 😉

I’ve got a little example of using different methods/aids. This arvo (sorry, that’s aussie for ‘afternoon’) I saw a couple of roos off in the scrub and straight away used the bracket aid. I said they’re definitely within 100 metres and definitely more than 50m, giving me a bracketing result of 75m.

That’s a pretty broad bracket though so followed up with with a ‘unit of measure’ method. I picked a tree that I guessed at 18m away and then kind of flipped that distance out over the terrain, a bit like unfolding evenly folded parts of a map out on a table. That gave me a range of 72m. A quick group average gave me 73.5m.

That entire process probably took about 30 seconds. I paced it out (chasing away the roos in the process), my 18m tree was more like 20m and the roos were 80m on the dot.

A good rule of thumb with JD’s is if you’re within 10% you’re doing ok, so my 18m/20m and 73m/80m were just within 10%. Obviously you’re never going to shoot at animals that far, but I still reckon it’s a fun and useful skill to develop. I’m glad the topic has so much interest 😀

Jim

[mhay]

#58371

This is an interesting topic . Since my first discovery of what we know as instinctive shooting thru GFAsbel back in the early ’80’s I have not had any concern about yardage ,,,I think . Having been raised with the gun and the bow and my Dad always challenging me to judge distance to make accurate shots on a variety of targets I now at a glance can know if any target is within my personal limits with the bow . It has become a case of not needing to know if it is 18 or 23 yards , but rather a case of that’s close enough .

More important to me is being able to give 100% concentration to the spot I want to hit . Not thinking about the distance or my form but locking my total vision and mental focus on the spot . At any time during the draw , hold and release if my focus drops off or my eyeballs twitch or even blink the whole thing falls apart.

Years ago I had a friend that shot wheels and sights.He was a good shot on known yardage shots . But when we went to the woods for some stump shooting he rarely connected and always became somewhat aggravated at my ability to connect without the use of sights . For me this is probably the most amazing part of shooting traditional bows .

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#59549

Good thread.

I have paced off my backyard target, so that I know about where to stand for a 20 yard shot, 25 yard, etc. But when stump shooting or hunting, I don’t consciously estimate distance, I simply practice enough to have a good idea of whether a target is “in range” or not. As with a lot of things, I find that thinking about it too much can become a liability. 😉

[James Harvey]

#59848

Smithhammer wrote: As with a lot of things, I find that thinking about it too much can become a liability. 😉

Haha, I find the same thing. But just like with good shooting form, I reckon you have to start off thinking about it before you can do it without thinking 😉

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#59921

ausjim wrote:

Haha, I find the same thing. But just like with good shooting form, I reckon you have to start off thinking about it before you can do it without thinking 😉

True that. I find the psychology behind that thinking/not thinking ‘sweet spot’ with a lot of activities to be fascinating territory.

[paleoman]

#59959

Hey Jim – not to change the great subject…but curious if the fires down there have affected your area?

[James Harvey]

#61123

Paleo,

All the big ones down here are a couple thousand clicks down the coast. We get them up here where I am too but haven’t had any bad ones this season. Thanks for asking though 😀

Jim

[grumpy]

#62160

ausjim wrote: a couple thousand clicks

DUHHHHHHHH

Read Malcolm Gladwell, OUTLIERS, and some of his other work. Tells how we get good at something (like archery, and baseball), what happens when we choke up, and how the brain doe’s it.

[coastalbendbows]

#63347

I think i picked up a few hints there. Thanks for the tips.

[Troy Warner]

#11006

grumpy wrote: [quote=ausjim] a couple thousand clicks

DUHHHHHHHH

Read Malcolm Gladwell, OUTLIERS, and some of his other work. Tells how we get good at something (like archery, and baseball), what happens when we choke up, and how the brain doe’s it.

For those that are metric challenged a “couple thousand clicks away” is along long ways.:wink:

Edit:

Grumpy,

that is good reading.

[grumpy]

#14345

As for the clicks, I think the different words//expressions are interesting. We are all speaking oops writing english, yet we have really different ways of saying the same thing (often with the same words). I have a neighbor (Winston) who is Jamacian. Winston, Bill (another high tech, Yankee refugee) and I spent a hilarious half hour around our backyard campfire last night trying to figure out what Winston was saying.

As for Gladwell:

Bill says that the time needed for MY hands to learn new moves is a lot less than most people becouse I have learned so many trades (all the way back to the fly tying, calculater (70s), thru painting, slater, coppersmith, glazer, etc.). Another friend Dave, who I’ve known for over 20 years, likes to watch me use my hands (he is jelous). I don’t think it is anything special that I was born with, just a happy result of random events. I’m still trying to apply Gladwell’s stuff to myself after almost 2 years. lol

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