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Many members of this site seem to feel a profound connection between hunting and the supernatural/spiritual. I (and others I hope) would love to see it brought together.
So, what are your beliefs and how have they affected your hunting (and/or view thereof), and vice versa? -
I am not a very religious person in terms of going to church on Sunday.
But I do believe there is a God:!:
One only has to look at a monarch butterfly,wood duck or any other wild creature, and that will prove that it can’t be any other way:!:
I really cannot explain my connection as it gets to deep and complicated for me to understand myself:idea:
Bruce -
Friends, we tread here on tender ground, so let’s please be sure to keep our responses in line with the original question, to wit: what we feel by way of personal connection between hunting and spirituality, and why we think that is. Spirituality, religion, or as stated, “supernaturalism,” and our beliefs or lack thereof in those realms, if taken beyond a direct connection to hunting and nature, are among the highly emotional issues like politics that our website user guidelines wisely exlude. This is a traditional archery and bowhunting site, period, not the proper place to argue what you believe vs. what I believe by way of religion or spirituality. I sure hope I don’t have to delete any posts or kill the thread because too many folks wander too far astray. That said, I sure don’t mean to put anyone off from posting opinions directly related to the question, which is a BIG one for many of us. For my own part, I have written books, or significant parts thereof, and countless articles and essays exploring the topic of hunting and spirituality, mostly aimed at nonhunters who think we’re all soulless thugs, yet that doesn’t qualify me to pontificate on the topic beyond my own purely personal feelings and experiences. I have no answers and don’t even want any. To me hunting is an integral part of the deep and wholly natural feeling of connectedness, peace and sanity I experience when out and about in wild nature, particularly when alone. And hunting gets me out there, farther and more often, than anything else, and thus the connection. We can postulate, as Dr. Paul Shepard and other unbiased academics have done eloquently, that this feeling of spiritual connection is because we evolved as an active element of wild nature, at once predator and prey, over some 6 million years, and a mere 10,000 years of agriculture and half that of civilization simply isn’t time enough to wash the hunter-gatherer shaping from our collective genome. To my mind that sounds as reasonable as any explanation and no supernaturalism required. All I know is that wild nature has saved my life and sanity and fighting to protect what’s left of it gives purpose to my life and I simply must have it to prosper. The connection is real and I rather enjoy the mystery of its origins. dp
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David Petersen wrote: This is a traditional archery and bowhunting site, period, not the proper place to argue what you believe vs. what I believe by way of religion or spirituality.dp
Wise words to be sure. I hope my intentions are not misread. I meant for this thread to be a discussion to contribute to rather than a debate to be won or lost.
That being said, I might as well chime in myself.
I am a Christian. I was raised on stories of a loving creator God whom I accepted as my Lord and Saviour. In this light, I view my time spent in creation (and as a part of it) as a great gift. We are to be faithful stewards of nature, not selfish exploiters of it. We have a lot to learn from what we have not polluted. I feel drawn to traditional bowhunting because it dovetails perfectly (or can, at least) with these values. -
We can postulate, as Dr. Paul Shepard and other unbiased academics have done eloquently, that this feeling of spiritual connection is because we evolved as an active element of wild nature, at once predator and prey, over some 6 million years, and a mere 10,000 years of agriculture and half that of civilization simply isn’t time enough to wash the hunter-gatherer shaping from our collective genome. To my mind that sounds as reasonable as any explanation and no supernaturalism required.
Mr. Peterson…may I respond to that?
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Sapcut — Of course! You don’t need my permission, and I hope I don’t come off as dictatorial in any degree. As moderator I am charged with “keeping order in the house,” and felt that a reminder of the playing rules up front could save grief farther along. I stated my feelings on the topic, as have Hubertus and Bruc and others to come. Your own views are most welcome. What we want to encourage in touchy situations like this is for folks to express their thoughts for others to share, in such a way that they aren’t directly disputing someone else’s expressed views, which could cause unintended hurt or anger due to the intensity with which many people hold their spiritual beliefs. In other words, “I believe so and so. …” rather than “I disagree with Joe because he believes so and so.” Right now, I believe I’d best go walk the dogs before it gets dark. 😀
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Gentlemen, we have only a few posts here and have already unsheathed the words: God, Christian, evolution, and supernaturalism. Let us tread lightly. I have very deep spiritual views that I cherish and try to live out. I would willingly share them here but the question is in regard to spirituality and nature; thus it is a ‘why’ question, not a ‘what caused it’ question. If we tackle ‘why’ we feel so deeply connected to nature then perhaps we can take up the question as to what causes it and how next time. 😀
I will say, for the record, that I appreciate Dave’s reminder here. Dave and I have gotten to know each other over the past year and have had several of these type discussions. We are in different camps but always show respect and kindness to one another while making our points. This is the ONLY forum that I ever read or post to. The reason for that is because we share a passion for the outdoors, a traditional way of experiencing it, and honor one another (a Biblical principle indeed).
Jody -
My view is we come from nature and we are nature ourselves. So we a connected always will be. Some of us are more aware of our roots in nature and I count it as a blessing in this world of ????:roll: My view there is a God and he is watching. I wonder if he is as disapointed in man as I am?
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Wise words from everyone. To go beyond using the natural world to survive is a progression necessary because man is gone from surviving to thriving. As our numbers as a species increase we know that we must be careful to preserve wild places. We are the only species who is self-aware so this gives me hope we can find a way. As hunters and gatherers we lived as a part of the natural world and were subject to its ways. Since most industrialized countries push nature back and replace it, instead of living as a part of it we are now responsible for nature. Hopefully preserving wild places will be seen as a necessary way of preserving ourselves. The old saying “Don’t mess with mother nature” is a truism. If we do not find a way nature will be very harsh and we will be hunter gatherers again but not by choice.
So I think when we feel that connection with nature it is a spiritual connection because we truly are connected to nature no matter how hard our society today tries to disconnect and overcome nature. It is nature’s way to remind us of this. So us few who do go out into the wild need to remind others how important it is to listen to this connection and honor and respect nature. JMHO
Tom
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I, unfortunately, am one of those that has hunted the most dangerous game on this planet. Man. When I made a kill I felt no remorse. When I kill an animal I feel a great loss. Many times I have sat next to the animal touching it and giving thanks to the animal for giving its life so that I may feed my family, friends and strangers. At the same time I am thanking our creator for his gift of life. Both mine and the animals.
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Wow.. I have to agree this is really deep. And a Big one for me as well. Theese are strictly my beliefs and opinions on this matter, it is neither right or wrong. It just my belief. That said… MANY Theologians today agree on the subject that all animals have a soul, They have a soul because they have the breath of Life which can only come from God. God is ever present and in all things. Our Creator gave us “dominion” over the animals, which to me means responsibility over the animals. It is not to be taken lightly, overly celebrated or without respect. For the animals we kill fall within the Creators sight. I never “pray” for a kill, for our Creator loves His animals too. Otherwise He would not have created so many. But I am always thankful for the opportunity, and pray in terms of thankfulness. And in the end, in the act of hunting and taking a life, I am ever mindful of my own mortality, and my accountability for my actions.
Read my closing Salutatiion!:)
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I make No apologies for spending Sundays outdoors in nature as opposed to in a church. I feel if there is a supreme being that created the world we live in them I should appreciate his creations not mans. If this is a accident of 2 amoeba in the mud so be it. It is awe inspiring to me. But to each his own.
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The connection I feel with nature while hunting the hard way recharges my soul. There is no better feeling then having an encounter with an animal at close quarters. Being in the woods is good therapy for a bad day of dealing with the darker side of mankind……plus it is good fun and makes me smile!!!
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I am a Christian and believe that God, (not Allah) the father of Jesus Christ, specifically created us as well as what I see each day in the wild while on my traditional bowhunts. There was not a shadow of a doubt of the above before I began studying in college toward my wildlife biology degree, among so many “scientists” professors (that new waaayyy too much for their own good). There is even less than a shadow of a doubt now. Now.. after learning the micro details of how complex living organisms are created. Now it screams a Creator even more than before.
ONE reason I believe that everything I saw in the Colorado Rockys while elk hunting was there due to a divine Creator is because the bible says that God created it. He also created the spiritual connection, the pure love of the pursuit that consumes me every waking minute I am there.
Another reason I believe that… is because I do not have enough faith to believe the world’s other option. I don’t have enough faith to believe, for example, that at some point or a compilation of points along a 50 million year timeline that a beggar’s lice or stickweed seed made the decision to grow prickly points so that it could procreate… or else.
BTW…”For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Romans 1:20
Richie
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I can’t recall a time in my life that a trip into the hills didn’t help ease my mind or help me smile. Hunting has become an especially cleansing activity. While hunting and all that goes along with it, from stumping, target shooting, scouting and fixing arrows, requires a focus that helps put the troubles of the world and the noise of technology into the background, if only for a while.
Feeling the sun or rain, watching the wind rustle the leaves and watching all the other wildlife go about their daily business is fascinating and humbling. Being in the woods does make me feel small, but it does not make me feel insignificant. It makes me feel part of the world that has been operating the same way I’m watching it for thousands of years. I might be a drop in the bucket, but every drop counts.
A friend wrote a poem about watching the horizon while at sea and knowing there was a whale swimming out there ahead of his tug. It was about how he could feel it, even though he could not see it. That’s the way it is for me in the woods, even on less than perfect days. I know that there is life out there, even when I cannot see it. I know that there is life out there that nourishes me and my family, sometimes on the table, but always for the spirit.
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I am with Richie, who clearly stated what I believe, so no repetition necessary.
As hunters the spirituality we feel or do not feel is a reflection of how we view our relationship with the hunted and nature.
Some see it as a game and feel nothing for the hunted after the kill. They will give away the animal keeping only a trophy and say that was fun, let’s do it again.
Others see it as simply a predator/prey relationship. The animal is food and after the kill they would simply begin preparing to consume it.
No spirituality in these views.
Others see the animal as a fellow living being and feel the need to apologize/give thanks to the killed animal. There would be a spiriuality here, but I do not understand it.
Others see our relationship to the hunted as one of a steward. They would say we are different from the animals. (after all, when was the last time you saw the coyote and deer sitting around the water hole discussing spirituality of the hunt). They feel a need to give thanks to someone (creator ,nature, Great Spirit, God) after the kill. If you feel the need to give thanks, then the spirituality part is to whom do you give thanks?
Fortunately for the hunted all these views can lead to conservation…the continued survival and thriving of the hunted and all that is needed to maintain it.
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Quite an interesting topic to say the least. I appreciate and respect all of the previous posts. One of the wonderful aspects of traditional bowhunting is how individual it is. This thread reminded me that spirituality should be an individual thing as well.
In regards to my spirituality, well I am a Christ follower who surrendered many years ago and as a result, have been transformed into a person far different than I was as a youth. I have seen this change in every facet of my life, particularly in my walk as a traditional bowhunter. I am more inclined to try to live out my faith as opposed to talking about it…
Every September, I head out into the mountains to enjoy every aspect of God’s creation. I also utilize this time as a means to restore my soul by being still and having God “walk with me quietly and walk with me slow.” I only experience this wonderful blessing by hunting alone or with my family. Seeing the sun rise and sun set for a month will do that to you…Yet, I see another side to this spirituality, I do acknowledge the predator/prey relationship and I do feel that there is profound spiritual aspect to taking an animal’s life and I thank the beautiful animal for giving its life to me. God is with me and guiding me but I have learned a long time ago that there is little or no justice within the natural/animal world. I don’t pray to take an animal’s life, I pray in gratitude and humility for the experience of the hunt. I do feel a sense of brotherhood to the animals we hunt, particularly elk, because they are the primary animal I have hunted most of my life. Simply, my beliefs are mine and the last thing I want to do is push them onto others as the only way to experience spirituality while hunting. I love that hunting is so personal and private. I thought I would share this side of me for a change… -
This has certainly turned into an interesting topic. TDowning has said it well.
From our discussion it is certain that we all feel a definite and deep connection to nature and our experience as hunters is indeed a spiritual one (more than a hobby or activity). One might conclude that it is part of what it means to be human, regardless of what you think about our origin.
As we take the bow afield we harken back to days that are long gone yet promote values that must be preserved. There is something mysterious, and ancient, about traditional bowhunting (and fly fishing as well in my experience). I find myself feeling humbled and full of wonder each time in the woods, or stream. As a Christ follower I am compelled to be grateful for the gift of creation and my times in it.
One of the most attractive aspects of traditional archery is the community that exists among us as trad bow hunters. We possess a set of skills, principles, and practices that I have not found previously in any other part of the hunting culture. While the challenge of traditional bowhunting is great and learning the necessary skills is exhilirating; it is the reason we hunt this way that sets it,and us, apart. I believe that is spiritual as well.
I have enjoyed this topic!!
Jody
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What Sapcut says ’bout what Tdowning says, and tracker10 too and most everyone else here. Seems we agree there ain’t no spirituality in the “Whack ’em and stack ’em” mentality, quite the opposite. No matter your religion or lack of, how you feel about hunting and the hunted makes me proud to be among you guys. Homer
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Very interesting discussion folks. From my perspective, let me say I hunt because I am, or maybe I am because I hunt. The love of the hunt, and all things wild, is deeply ingrained in my soul. Why? I don’t really know, but it is a part of me that I simply could not exist without. Nature has taught me many things that can be applied to everyday life, and I treat every day spent outdoors as precious gift, not to be taken lightly.
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Well fellows, it appears that we have hit upon a topic that resonates within us all as outdoorsmen and traditional bowhunters. I am not surprised at all. We may not all sing from the same song sheet all the time but we seem to hum the same tune while afield. You all have taken a subject that has the potential to divide, and anger, us but used it to show the dignity and purity of what we have been given, hold dear, and strive to protect. That, in a nutshell, is spiritual, and darn good stewardship to boot.
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Homer said, “No matter your religion or lack of, how you feel about hunting and the hunted makes me proud to be among you guys.”
Well said Homer, I couldn’t agree more. I too am extremely proud to be amongst this fine group of bowhunters…
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Here goes, both feet, my personal view religion and spirituality are separate.
In my humble opinion (he says trying not to tread on any toes) religion’s were created by man to formalise values, conduct and unite people.
Spirituality recognises consciously or unconsciously the power (life force, energy) in all things.
OK cut that well short and not offended anyone.
Mark.
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Pothunter — I too have always separated religion and spirituality as overlapping but distinct terms. It’s entirely possible, as some of our non-religious posters here have noted eloquently, not only for the two be the same for some people, but also to have one withut the other, in both directions. When it comes to wildlife, the wild places these “others” inhabit and enliven, and the inner wildness, or “animal nature” that being an active player in it all brings out in me, I’m a deeply spiritual man. I don’t see any insult in your remarks at all, but merely clarification. If there’s a more direct connection to heaven than nature, I’ve not found it. Homer
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We as bowhunters,especially traditional, have to directly interact with so many things outside of our control ie. terrain,weather,and even the game we pursue. Then we have to try to master ourselves with such things as patience, endurance,faith,perseverance, and patience again. When it is all said and done we realize we are only a part of a larger whole. This realization is the foundation of all spirituality. Which is why I have yet to find a hunter or a farmer who did not have a sense of spirituality regardless of their “religion”.
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Hi Homer, thanks for your comments this subject can be very difficult.
It is my belief that spirituality ‘just is’ we can not manipulate it but we can corrupt it.
But at the same time I don’t believe the two have to exist in isolation it may be for each of us to find a personal balance.
As traditional bowhunters we interact with nature in the same manner as the earliest hunter gatherers who’s lives possibly existence was determined by nature, to gain a better understanding did they also feel the power of nature and its spirits.
In closing I would like to say that debates like this are very important they show that religious belief in some strong enough to debate these things without degenerating into verbal violence and to accept other views and beliefs as equal.
Mark.
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I’ve stayed away from commenting on this thread, though read the posts with interest. For me it’s a deeply personal matter, and sharing it on an internet chat board seems a little strange. But it’s also caused me to think about this topic a little more, so what the heck. This is the sum of my approach to spirituality, with no intention of offending or denigrating anyone else’s beliefs:
Call it whatever you will – God, the Great Spirit, the Creator or a billion years of evolution – it’s proof exists only when we are outside and quiet, listening.
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It seems most all of us are in awe of nature and incorporate it into our spirituality.Whether we credit it to the hand of God or random occurences is where we might differ. But I think we all agree we have a love for the nature we hunt in. Enjoy it while we can, brothers and sisters.:D
Wayne -
All I’m going to say on this subject is I feel more alive than any other time when I’m in the woods as night slowly turns into day. I feel I am where I am suppose to be, where I was meant to be and I am connected to all that is, was and will be. The actual feeling(s) are hard to put to words but it is a feeling that makes me return over and over again, a feeling that I will never willingly give up as long as there is breath in this ole body.
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Excelent responses all! While the concerns of Mr. Petersen & tracker10 (among others, I’m sure) were perfectly valid and well stated, I’m glad to see the respectful attitude that I’ve come to love about this group.
A part of me would like to comment on all of the great insights I’ve read, but nobody wants me any more long-winded than I already am, I’m sure.
I think that the hunt goes beyond food and sport for all of us, the question is how and why. I’m glad to see these diverse (they need not be divisive) thoughts articulated so well. -
Spirituality means different things to different folks in the context of hunting and the outdoors. For me, it’s as simple as a rising mist in an autumn meadow, or the call of a Screech Owl just before dawn. It’s evident to me that there is a greater power up and about at those times, and in those places, and I’m always at home in those woods or that meadow.
To be there with my bow by my side, and a quiver of arrows on my back, is of course icing on that proverbial cake.If a man could choose his last stand, I would choose a place where the last thing you hear is the melodic call of a Wood Thrush. Then I would know I was near Heaven.
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Beautifully said, George. In so few words, you explain it perfectly.
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George, your last sentence is perfect. If you don’t mind, I’m gonna save that one.
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George D. Stout wrote: If a man could choose his last stand, I would choose a place where the last thing you hear is melodic call of a Wood Thrush. Then I would know I was near Heaven.
Well said George. My gramps used to say he wanted to “go” while setting the hook on a big bluegill “just rear back and keep on going!”
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George,
I have a love/hate relationship with those birds. I hate it when they bust me on stand. But I love to hear them sing at first light, teaching their young their song, passed down for generations. Flying all the way back here from wintering in South/Central America to nest. Do things like this just happen? For me it says that something larger than ourselves that we cannot begin to fully understand is at work in our world and we should look up from our preoccupation and pay attention and give thanks.
Duncan -
I grew up at the base of Glacier park in Montana and at 5 I had my first bow and my first gun at 7 (spent an entire summer mowing lawns to be able to buy it). We hunted to eat, along with a chickens and turkeys that we raised and a large garden that is what we had. We did not get Mcdonalds when I was a child, and I didn’t taste beef till I was almost 6. Having been all over this earth I find that everyone outside of the commercialized hunting scene have a spiritual connection to hunting and consuming animals. My better halve is Buddhist, and I hunt with Muslims. We all give thanks for the life of the animal but also everytime we consume the animal. We respct each others traditions and never take offence to how another says Thank you. Of all the years and hard miles I have traveled, I have come to find myself through hunting and the outdoors sharing food and life with the most wonderful people and for that I am eternally grateful.
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Erik — Which side of Glacier, east or west? For many years the North Fork Valley was like a second home to me. The road in there is still unpaved and no electricity. Huckleberries and morels always, and the “gamiest” place this side of Alaska. Them’s my kind of folks, the North Forkers, living in peace with the bears and wolves, and I do mean with them. Sure miss that place and envy you growing up there, either side (although Baggs is an acquired taste that few folks ever acquire). And of course there is south: Whitefish, Kalispell, Columbia Falls. Geeze, I have to quit thinking about it …Homer
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Homer wrote: Erik — Which side of Glacier, east or west? For many years the North Fork Valley was like a second home to me. The road in there is still unpaved and no electricity. Huckleberries and morels always, and the “gamiest” place this side of Alaska. Them’s my kind of folks, the North Forkers, living in peace with the bears and wolves, and I do mean with them. Sure miss that place and envy you growing up there, either side (although Baggs is an acquired taste that few folks ever acquire). And of course there is south: Whitefish, Kalispell, Columbia Falls. Geeze, I have to quit thinking about it …Homer
Guys,
I’m considering moving to Montana in two years when I retire from 35 years in public school education. I presently live in eastern Iowa, less then a mile from the Mississippi River. I have taken close to 75 whitetails with a bow in this rich whitetail area.
I would love to live in an area that has great elk hunting but not the golf courses, ski resorts, etc. Which areas would you suggest I begin my search? Any areas of the state that have land prices lower than some others that would be close to good elk hunting?
Thanks,
Ireland
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Ireland,
If you don’t like golf courses andski resorts stay away from the Bozeman area, great fly fishing but a lot of money and tourists. My dad and brother live there but don’t like it. The western part of the state is very nice, I’m partial to the Bigfork and Whitefish/Kilspell area. Lots of great deer elk and bear hunting and fishing. Beautiful area and the locals are great. There is some trendy stuff up there especially around Flathead lake. Its not bad and the area is gorgeous with lots of room so you can rome without worrying about the two legged critters.
Erik
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runamuck wrote: Ireland,
If you don’t like golf courses andski resorts stay away from the Bozeman area, great fly fishing but a lot of money and tourists. My dad and brother live there but don’t like it. The western part of the state is very nice, I’m partial to the Bigfork and Whitefish/Kilspell area. Lots of great deer elk and bear hunting and fishing. Beautiful area and the locals are great. There is some trendy stuff up there especially around Flathead lake. Its not bad and the area is gorgeous with lots of room so you can rome without worrying about the two legged critters.
Erik
Erik,
Thank you for your great response. You have provided me with exactly the type of information that I need. A major concern is the “two legged critters”. When I go to a public hunting area, I want to see Ford and Chevy pickups not Hummers and expensive SUV’s in the lot. How about Smithhammer, Homer and David Petersen…Any thoughts about the area?
Thanks again guys,
Ireland
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The only thing Bozeman has going for it is that it’s so close to Montana, imo.
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