How much bow and arrow for hogs?

[William Warren]

#7033

I’m thinking of doing some hog hunting early next year and was wondering what weight bow and arrows do other members use for hogs?
Duncan

[Hiram]

#57442

Hey Snuffer! At least the amount you can shoot accurately and effectively to put a sharp head into the “Pump Station” at twenty yards. How much depends on you! I would like to say the minimum is around 40-45 pounds but if you can draw and shoot effectively with a 60 pounder, that is what I would use. I like the 50 weight Bows but that is what I can draw and hold for at least 6 seconds without too much fatigue that starts me to collapse in form at anchor. Make em bleed Snuffer!:D

[William Warren]

#57463

Thanks Hiram,
I’m shooting 45# right now. I was having difficulty with my usual 55# bow so I dropped back in poundage and am shooting much better now. I may be back in shape by early spring and can feel confident again with the 55# bow for hogs. I’m most interested in the little piggies for the BBQ but I will shaft a boar if the opportunity comes.
Duncan

[Hiram]

#57473

Bet you will do it to em Snuffer! That 45 would have been a “Laser Bow” for the middle American Indians. I am leaning toward the Grizzley Type heads. You know the ones that Dr Ashby was testing before the “High Dollar” heads came out from Alaska Bowhunting. I am thinking the addition of this type head will give more Pene and fly dartlike.

[kingwouldbe]

#57673

Hi Snuffornot, to me there are a few type’s of hogs.

* under 100lb can be killed with almost any bow arrow combo.

* above 100-150lb is starting to get pretty tough and needs a good set up that’s able to penetrate at least 10″-12″ of chest.

* above 150-200 is a tough animal to kill with a bow, a hog of this size can have some real armor covering there vital area, the heaver bow you can shoot the better ( now we are not target shooting, we are hunting and we usually only take a few shots, so we can usually shoot 5-10lb heaver ) a heavy arrow with a deep penetrating broadhead.

* above 200-400 are as tough as they get and can take a ton of punishment and keep going, only the best of gear can penetrate deep enough to get a kill on these boars

Just my 2 cents my friend

[Jason Wesbrock]

#57974

snuffornot wrote: Thanks Hiram,
I’m shooting 45# right now. I was having difficulty with my usual 55# bow so I dropped back in poundage and am shooting much better now. I may be back in shape by early spring and can feel confident again with the 55# bow for hogs. I’m most interested in the little piggies for the BBQ but I will shaft a boar if the opportunity comes.
Duncan

When I was in West Texas this past May, one of the hunters in camp, Brent Hill, killed this 225# mature boar. He used a 48# Bob Lee recurve shooting an unweighted carbon arrow tipped with a 1964 Bear Razorhead.

As always, these things come down to proper shot placement.

[Jesse Minish]

#58028

I hate threads about pig hunting! It makes me want to head south in the winter even more to chase them around!

[kingwouldbe]

#58090

J.Wesbrock wrote:
When I was in West Texas this past May, one of the hunters in camp, Brent Hill, killed this 225# mature boar. He used a 48# Bob Lee recurve shooting an unweighted carbon arrow tipped with a 1964 Bear Razorhead.

As always, these things come down to proper shot placement.

Hi J.
That statement is always true, it looks like from that pic the hit was behind the ribs and the armor, looks like gut shot, or was it quartering away ( witch is a great shot angle ) however, can anyone guarantee 100% of the time that there arrow will hit exactly where they intended it to go, we all know the answer.

Did you know Elephants have been killed with a 22cal. does that mean it’s an adequate weapon for Elephants, no!

Can you kill with light tackle? Yes!

However why not stack the deck in your favor and shoot as heavy a tackle as we can.

If the animal drops, spins or reacts to the shot in any way, that perfect shot, can now be a poo poo shot, and a greater chance of a lost animal.

There is no 100% guarantees in hunting ( way to many variables ) but we can stack the odds in our favor.

If I could shoot a .500 nitro (figuratively speaking) I would, there is no down side to shooting heavy tackle in Bowhunting, there is only gain.

If you could shoot a 100lb bow with a 1000+ grain arrow, there is no down side, you are not going to ruin any meat, but you will be able to run your arrow through anything you might hit.

This boar had almost 3″ of armor then another 4″ of muscle before you get to the ribs, plus mud which can dull a soft steal broadhead.

Most can’t shoot 100lb bow so, we have to shoot the best tackle we possibly can with our physical limitations. if all I can shoot is 40-45lb, I have to limit what I shoot at and the shots I will take.

Has there ever been an animal that was lost because the Bowhunter got to much penetration?

When I fly fish, I like light tackle, but, when it comes to Bowhunting I’m an advocate of more is better.

Just my 2 cents my friend

[kingwouldbe]

#58096

Jesse Minish wrote: I hate threads about pig hunting! It makes me want to head south in the winter even more to chase them around!

Jesse, God made the Wild Boar for Trad-bowhunters, No limit, No season, Just hunt 😀

[William Warren]

#58100

King,
Thanks for breaking it down by weight. That is very useful and I am hoping I can regain confidence in shooting my 55# bow by time to hunt.
Duncan

[Patrick]

#58103

Kingwouldbe wrote: No limit, No season, Just hunt 😀

Really?

[Jason Wesbrock]

#58192

Yes, Brent killed the hog with a quartering away shot well within his effective range. Back at camp, he set the hog up against a sand bank and took a test shot broadside into the shield. He penetrated both sides. Would he take that test shot on a live, healthy hog? No, but it was food for thought.

There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game (were .22s ever the norm for recreational elephant hunters?). Those bows worked fine back then, and I’d be willing to bet that the Good Lord isn’t making animals any tougher today than He did in the 60s. Of course everything has its limitations, but to take the opposite extreme of your analogy, I don’t need a .500 Nitro to kill a jackrabbit.

I understand the thought process behind “overkill” in bowhunting. But the same logic—preparing for “what if”—that leads one bowhunter to choose more poundage and heavier arrows with two-blade heads will cause another to choose lighter poundage, faster arrows, or larger broadheads. I suppose which road we take depends on our personal experiences and individual priorities. In the end, my opinions on the subject mirror Don Thomas’ article on page 59 of the latest TBM. It’s a good piece; if anyone hasn’t read it yet, they should do so. It puts things into perspective quite well.

[sapcut]

#58416

“There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game”
That doesn’t mean it was the best thing to do. That is just what was available. That is probably one reason that bowhunters got tagged as wounding too many deer.
What Kingwouldbe is saying is not up for debate. It is facts.
It is just a matter of whether a hunter has the desire to use the best setup available or the next best.
Most who use the next best tend to defend their choice as if it was the best.
Rocket science it isn’t.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#58590

Sapcut wrote: “There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game”
That doesn’t mean it was the best thing to do. That is just what was available.

If it works, it works. And no, those bows weren’t “just what was available.” Bowyers made bows in most any poundage requested. There are certainly enough old Bear, Howatt, and Pearson 80# recurves out there to demonstrate the point. Why did they use bows in the forty-pound range?

Because they worked.

Ironically enough, when I interviewed Tim and Gabby Cosgrove of Kustom King Archery a couple years ago for TBM, the topic of draw weight came up. They told me that in the 80s they rarely ever sold a bow under fifty pounds. These days they don’t even stock them over sixty pounds. Perhaps bowhunters are starting to relearn what does and does not really work? It’s somewhat of a shame that we have to keep re-inventing the wheel, so to speak.

That is probably one reason that bowhunters got tagged as wounding too many deer.

You may want to read the writings of Glenn St. Charles or Chet Stevenson for insight as to why bowhunters were “tagged as wounding too many deer” back then. Suffice it to say, the problem was politics, and not draw weight.

What Kingwouldbe is saying is not up for debate. It is facts.
It is just a matter of whether a hunter has the desire to use the best setup available or the next best.

In that regard, we should all leave our bows at home and hunt with the previously mentioned .500 Nitros. Yet, we choose archery equipment. Why?

Because it works.

Rocket science it isn’t.

Indeed.

[rayborbon]

#58596

Are hogs built tougher than black bears?

[sapcut]

#58997

Good shot placement, sharp broadheads, “hit em in the boiler room”. You know all the cliches of people who defend light tackle setups. ALL of these are understood and “givens”. Do you know anyone who does NOT apply this to their preparations?

Again, assuming these are “givens”, what is more lethal a heavy bow/arrow setup or a lighter bow/arrow setup when the arrow hits an animal in the wrong place due to NO fault of your own? It is obviously hard for many to admit.

Regarding the article on page 59…..Bow holders purposely use lighter bow/arrow setups. They do not purposely hunt with a lack of accuracy preparation.
It is incredibly more likely that the loses of animals are due to the intentional use of light weight equipment compared to intentionally not practicing proficeintly.

Not so perfect shots do occur due to no fault of our own. Why not admit that fact, be a little smarter and prepare accordingly?

[Patrick]

#59029

When I first sought out advise on the poundage I should shoot when I switched to traditional archery. EVERYONE I talked to told me all I need is 45#, and that’s what they recommend I shoot. Prior to that I had a lot of experience with compounds, but zero with traditional, so I took their advise. If I would have been in the know at the time I purchased my bow, I would have bought a bow with a 60# draw at my draw length. Not because what I’m shooting won’t work. It’s just that I can handle 60#’s and would rather have the extra horse power. Simply because I can, and there are advantages to heavier poundage. I think so many people need others to follow their lead in order to justify what they use due to an inferiority complex.

[Jesse Minish]

#59223

rayborbon wrote: Are hogs built tougher than black bears?

I have never shot a hog but black bear IMO are thin skinned and easy to penetrate.

[Jesse Minish]

#59235

My dad hunts with bows in the 45-55# range. He use to shoot 80# bows all the time but now he feels more confident in his shooting abilities with the lighter tackle and he never has a problem with penetration.
Nothing wrong with more poundage either that is why I like to shoot bows in the 65-80# range. To each his own and it will all work as stated above with tuned arrows and sharp broadheads.

[kingwouldbe]

#59267

rayborbon wrote: Are hogs built tougher than black bears?

Hi Ray,
I would say that the 100-150lb,er’s are about the same, bears are really easy to kill, there not that tough to penetrate.

As a bear gets bigger he really only puts on more weight, his hide does not get thicker and there is no shield or gristle to protect his vitals.

As boars get bigger they get exceptionally tougher, I think they quantify there structure.

What I mean by that is they just don’t put on more weight as bears do, there structure changes, big boars are built for battle they fight every day and some time’s all day, for a hot sow.

There shoulder blade covers the front part of there vitals with a nasty bone ridge on it.

It takes about 5 years for a boar to mature to be a dominate breading boar and he don’t get to bread unless he can kick the but of the current dominate boar in his area.

This boar is only about 230-250lb and just starting to get a tough shield, as you can see the skin is thick over the vitals and gets thinner as you go farther back

As a boar gets older his armor gets tougher and tougher, it is vary fibrous, and designed to “STOP” penetration, so it’s vitals are not penetrated buy another boars tusk, as well as fat like the bear, a boar will also have tons of scar tissue from fighting plus mud caked on there sides.

This is just the skin from a 300 lb boar, ” TOUGH ” is an understatement.

Just my 2 cents my friend

[Chris Shelton]

#59400

Okay, I tan hides just for fun, and you got my attention with that last set of pics! I dont think I have ever seen any skin that thick! I guess you would need a sharp broadhead and a good knife?

To the fellow that said the 22cal is not a effective hunting weapon! Mabye not for elephant hunting, but I think 22’s get a bad rap! Somehow a myth was started saying they tumble after 150 yards? I know for a fact that a 22lr, is effective on tough varmits like a groundhog at 283 yards! Just to give you guys a idea(who dont know anything about groundhogs) there skin is approximatly as thick as a whitetail, or even thicker. Obviously a bullet wouldnt have to penetrate as deep into a groundhog, but I would be willing to bet that if you nail a whitetail in the head, that the whitetail will go down every time! Never tried it myself, but my great uncles have shot piles of whitetail with a 22 short before laws forbid it.(Canada) They also shot a moose with a 30/30! And the one shot 4 caribou at 70+ yards with a blackpowder colt! I think folks today overexagerate and overpower there game too much, alot like to use 300’s and 308’s for deer, when a 243 or a 30/30 will do fine! Way off topic, but great pics guys! Best of luck hog hunting duncan
Chris

[Chris Shelton]

#59403

also do they tast good when that have all that fat?

[William Warren]

#59633

King,
I noticed in your pics that you filleted off the back straps and shoulder meat. How much of the hog do you normally save?
Duncan

PS: Awesome pics in your earlier post! Those are some fantastic hogs! For some reason I did not see them when I last looked at this thread. And those are some wicked looking arrows too. What weight arrow would you use for 55#?

[Jason Wesbrock]

#59641

Greatreearcher wrote: I think folks today overexagerate and overpower there game too much, alot like to use 300’s and 308’s for deer, when a 243 or a 30/30 will do fine! Way off topic, but great pics guys! Best of luck hog hunting duncan
Chris

Actually, it’s not as off topic as you may think. You wouldn’t believe how many discussions take place (on the internet and elsewhere) over whether or not a .30-30 is a suitable rifle for deer hunting. Sure, they’ve worked just fine for over a hundred years, but some people think .30-30s aren’t adequate, and that folks should use something like a 7mm Magnum instead — you know, “just in case.”

So we as bowhunters may get bogged down in these circular discussions, but at least we’re not alone. 😆

[rayborbon]

#59647

Jesse Minish wrote: [quote=rayborbon]Are hogs built tougher than black bears?

I have never shot a hog but black bear IMO are thin skinned and easy to penetrate.

I have not had any problems either. That’s why I was asking about hogs.

[Chris Shelton]

#60315

J.Wesbrock wrote: Actually, it’s not as off topic as you may think. You wouldn’t believe how many discussions take place (on the internet and elsewhere) over whether or not a .30-30 is a suitable rifle for deer hunting. Sure, they’ve worked just fine for over a hundred years, but some people think .30-30s aren’t adequate, and that folks should use something like a 7mm Magnum instead — you know, “just in case.”

So we as bowhunters may get bogged down in these circular discussions, but at least we’re not alone. 😆

Wow I have never heard that. My father has had for his entire hunting career a 30/30 and he has killed almost all of his deer with it, minus a couple with a muzzleloader and one with a compound. Like I said my great uncles up in Saskatewan have killed a moose with it, and piles of whitetail with a 22short!!! Not a 22lr, a 22 short. That is just rediculous, especially because of the shear size of that deer population, they are all basically masssive, he told me that a average is close to 200 pounds:shock:!! I dont know if it is because I am used to the average being 100 pounds, but holy molly. I suppose it comes back to bowhunting as well. Back in the day archers would shoot at game well beyond what we would call crazy. Like in TJ Conrads book-“Traditional Bowhunters Handbook” there is a picture of either Art or Saxton with a whitetail they killed at 65 yards with there longbow!? That is just insane, what I wonder is how many shots it took after the initial impact, but mabye that is the modern hunter within me speaking. I would be willing to be that our modern archery equipment like my take down is more than capable to kill a big game animal at 60+ yards! I will never know for sure, I only take hope and prayer shots like that on small game!!

I know that my savage mark II 22lr, has killed two groundhogs at 280 plus yards, the second one was very close to 300 yards, but a 12 gauge with #6 shot at 20 yards wouldnt even penetrate the skin! #6 is not that small, it should have killed that groundhog, it really makes me wonder about the effectiveness of BB on whitetail. Perhaps that is why buckshot is illegal in most Maryland counties? This bring up another issue, goose hunters!! Supposeatly you are not suppose to go lower than BB for geese????? I have killed a goose about 40 yards strait up with #6 steel! I think we all should just step back and say, “you know what I think I will leave my barrett 50 cal at home and hunt deer with my 243 today”:D

[kingwouldbe]

#60322

snuffornot wrote: King,
I noticed in your pics that you filleted off the back straps and shoulder meat. How much of the hog do you normally save?
Duncan

PS: Awesome pics in your earlier post! Those are some fantastic hogs! For some reason I did not see them when I last looked at this thread. And those are some wicked looking arrows too. What weight arrow would you use for 55#?

Hey Snuff,

On this boar I did a autopsy with pic’s on what the arrow/ broadhead did, as I removed meat I took pic’s, with the bones still in place.

Here I have moved the shoulder blade forward to show how forward the vitals are of a boar.

I bone out the whole thing including the tender lions with out ever gutting it, this hog was killed about 4 miles from the nearest road, I bone out 99% of my kills in the field.

[kingwouldbe]

#60342

J.Wesbrock wrote: [quote=Sapcut]”There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game”
That doesn’t mean it was the best thing to do. That is just what was available.

If it works, it works. And no, those bows weren’t “just what was available.” Bowyers made bows in most any poundage requested. There are certainly enough old Bear, Howatt, and Pearson 80# recurves out there to demonstrate the point. Why did they use bows in the forty-pound range?

Because they worked.

Ironically enough, when I interviewed Tim and Gabby Cosgrove of Kustom King Archery a couple years ago for TBM, the topic of draw weight came up. They told me that in the 80s they rarely ever sold a bow under fifty pounds. These days they don’t even stock them over sixty pounds. Perhaps bowhunters are starting to relearn what does and does not really work? It’s somewhat of a shame that we have to keep re-inventing the wheel, so to speak.

That is probably one reason that bowhunters got tagged as wounding too many deer.

You may want to read the writings of Glenn St. Charles or Chet Stevenson for insight as to why bowhunters were “tagged as wounding too many deer” back then. Suffice it to say, the problem was politics, and not draw weight.

What Kingwouldbe is saying is not up for debate. It is facts.
It is just a matter of whether a hunter has the desire to use the best setup available or the next best.

In that regard, we should all leave our bows at home and hunt with the previously mentioned .500 Nitros. Yet, we choose archery equipment. Why?

Because it works.

Rocket science it isn’t.

Indeed.

Hi J,

I am not hear to argue with anyone, and I like how we have respect for differing opinions.

Let’s make sure we treat each other with respect as we discuss this topic.

J. you keep saying ” because it works ” I beg to differ with you my friend, the FACTS say it don’t/didn’t work as ALL STUDYS THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED indicate vary bad wound/kill losses.

Can you kill with light or poorly put together tackle? YES you can.

The study’s that have been done indicate we have a lot of room for improvement.

Bowhunting Studies
1. In an unpublished report for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, Landwehr, T. J. (1983), surveyed 3,909 Minnesota bowhunters in 1982. The data from this study indicates a wounding rate of 53% in Minnesota. The study goes on to find that at a state-wide level nearly 6,500 Minnesota deer were shot by arrows and never retrieved in 1982.

2. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Quarterly Progress Report from St. Croix, Jan. 15, 1947, 191 bowhunters killed 24 deer and left 6 carcasses. Wounding rate was 50% (61 shots per kill).

3. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Quarterly Progress Report from St. Croix, Red lake, Jan, 15, 1948
St. Crox- 293 Bowhunters killed only 3 deer, Red lake- 83 Bowhunters killed one deer and wounded another.

4. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Quarterly Progress Report from Camp Ripley, Oct. 15, 1954, archers killed 43 deer. A large number of deer were reported as wounded by archers.

5. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Quarterly Progress Report from Camp Ripley, Jan. 15, 1957, archers killed 96 deer. 30 deer were reported wounded.

6. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Quarterly Progress Report from Camp Ripley, July 15, 1959, 11,086 archers killed 403 deer, 59.1% wounding rate. In questionnaires bowhunters reported firing 2,550 shots to kill 126 deer (40.9%) and wound 182 (59.1%). An average of 20.2 arrows was fired per kill.

7. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Summaries of Wildlife Research Findings 1991, edited by Blair Joselyn, Camp Ripley Preliminary Results. 1st Hunt 1,376 hunters: Hunters killed 119 deer. Hunters reported wounding and not retrieving 40 deer. 2nd Hunt deer. 12 reports of wounded deer.

8. A major study in Texas by Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G., (1987) collected data from 3,568 hunters over a thirteen year time period. The authors found a wounding rate of over 50% and found that more than 21 shots were needed per kill. The authors state that these numbers are conservative due to the fact that they are based on bowhunter reported surveys. This study concluded that shot placement is for all practical purposes random, that wounds clot quickly leaving poor blood trails, that poorly hit deer, more often than not, are lost, and that almost all abdominally shot deer die a slow death due to peritonitis.

9. A study by Aho, R.W. (1984) for the Michigan Department of Natural Resources indicates that bowhunting results in a 58% wounding rate.

10. Causey, M.K., Kennamer, J.E., Logan, J. and Chapman, J.I., ( 1978 ) indicated that bowhunting in both Alabama and South Carolina results in a 50% wounding rate.

11. In a survey of Georgia bowhunters, Croft, R.L. (1963), found wounding rates over 78%.

12. A study by Downing, R.L., (1972) found crippling rates of 50%. Crippling rate refers to unretrieved mortally wounded deer in Georgia.

13. Garland, L.E., (1972) indicates that bowhunting in Vermont has resulted in a wounding rate of 63%.

[William Warren]

#60362

Here I have moved the shoulder blade forward to show how forward the vitals are of a boar.

I bone out the whole thing including the tender lions with out ever gutting it, this hog was killed about 4 miles from the nearest road, I bone out 99% of my kills in the field.

King,
Sounds like a quartering away shot will be best. And boning the hogs out sounds like the best plan. I also like the idea of matching your equipment to the size hog you decide to shoot or if you are physically able, carry enough bow and arrow for any hog. I hear the big boars are not much good for eating. What’s your take on that?
Duncan

[kingwouldbe]

#60384

10/4 Snuff, the quartering away shot allows you to inter in much softer tissue and still get to the vitals.

There is a size that is rough to eat 😯 some make slim jims and other things to cover up the smell.

I have had a few that smelled like a urinal at the coliseum :?. ( I give those away to my friends so they don’t ask for any meat again 😉 just kidding )

Nothing go’s to waste, just not always the best table fair.

The best eaters are under 150lb boars and any size sow.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#60997

Kingwouldbe,

J. you keep saying ” because it works ” I beg to differ with you my friend, the FACTS say it don’t/didn’t work as ALL STUDYS THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED indicate vary bad wound/kill losses.

I think you may be confusing equipment issues (which is what I’m discussing) with operator malfunctions (which is what your studies reflect). I don’t see anywhere in what you posted that those wounding rates were due to inadequate draw weight. As a matter of fact, one of them is very clear that shot placement was to blame.

From your post (please note bold text):

” 8. A major study in Texas by Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G., (1987) collected data from 3,568 hunters over a thirteen year time period. The authors found a wounding rate of over 50% and found that more than 21 shots were needed per kill. The authors state that these numbers are conservative due to the fact that they are based on bowhunter reported surveys. This study concluded that shot placement is for all practical purposes random, that wounds clot quickly leaving poor blood trails, that poorly hit deer, more often than not, are lost, and that almost all abdominally shot deer die a slow death due to peritonitis.”

In order to use those studies to support your theory of increased wounding losses due to insufficient draw weight, the people conducting those studies would have had to categorize the results according to draw weight and compared the wounding percentages accordingly. I don’t see any such data in your post.

What is interesting to note is that the wounding rates you cited seemed to stay the same from decade to decade, despite more efficient equipment (including compound bows). So maybe it all really does come down to the loose nut behind the wheel. 😉

[rayborbon]

#61032

I have had shots land not exactly where I want them to be but I would not call my shot placements random. Quite the opposite.

When the animal doesn’t move, the arrow flies straight like it usually does and when I am on the aim as well as closing the gap to get within 20 yards I rarely have too random a shot. Sure it could be a little to the left or right once in a while but usually right where I sent it off to.

The “shot placement is for all practical purposes random” is a strange statement to make in that context above. Now I am not saying I am perfect and that I can put everthing inside a dime at 25 yards but I certainly would not call my shooting random. If it was I might as well get into the middle of a herd of elk and put on a blindfold and start flingin arrows. To publish a statement such as that I have to ask myself who are these archers making random shots? Most archers I know aim for the vitals not the arse.

Have fun with the debate. I’ll continue to avoid random shot placement.

[kingwouldbe]

#61606

I agree with you J, that bow poundage is not stated, and is a factor not recorded.

However if we go with your previous statement There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game ……… and the statement because they work…….. I see we have a lot of room to get better both in our over all shooting ability and our equipment.

Going back to my .500 nitro analogy, if my goal is to kill whatever I am shooting at, why would I want to shoot a .22……….. am I trying to kill it with the lightest tackle I can get away with?…. NO

Is a .500 nitro over kill?…… absolutely,….. that’s the goal, to kill what I am shooting at.

If I could use a BAZOOKA ( figuratively speaking )I would, after I hit it, I don’t want it to get up. ( I am not talking about killing it any way we can, just the more power the better, with our limited equipment )

Both Fred Bear and Howard Hill said PENETRATIONIS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.( of course assuming you can hit what your shooting at )

They both understood that if my broadhead does not make it into the vitals you cant kill it.

Is this goal achieved by lighter tackle or heaver tackle?

We have to shoot the most effective tackle we possibly can with in the limitations we have put on our self’s.

Some can only shoot 40lbs and that’s OK, but that tackle comes with more limitations than, lets say 60-70lb.

All things being equal the 40lb bow can never out perform the 60lb bow, just as the .22 can never out preform the .500 nitro

With the .22, like the lighter bows, you are limited in both the size and distant of the effective range.

Now the two things we can work on are, our shooting ability, and working up to a good hunting weight bow.

Apparently from the study’s above we SUCK as a group, I do believe in the 80-20 rule, 20% of the hunters kill 80% of the game.

Becoming a better shot is mandatory, and knowing our personal effective shooting/killing range is also mandatory, the animals we hunt deserve that much.

[Jesse Minish]

#61626

Those wound rates are crazy!

[rayborbon]

#61765

Jesse Minish wrote: Those wound rates are crazy!

I agree and I have to wonder if they are even really accurate representations of what happens in the world. I have not wounded that percentage of game while hunting. It seems like part of that report was made for reasoning to further regulate archery and perhaps by people who do not liker archers and or hunting. I don’t know about those studies. At this time I just cannot believe them in their entirety.

The premise of a good heavy bow and arrow is a good one. I think that each animal species may or may not require a minimum set of poundage of a bow to take down. Actually – it’s not all just poundage because that does not equate to a better killing machine if you have a bow which is less efficient. However I would bet a general rule that it is the correct road to take in the discussion of the ability to take game effectively. I just wouldn’t build my arguments on top of those “studies, reports,or whatever you want to call them”.

Bottom line I would not hunt any large game with a bow that shot less than 50 lbs draw at 28 inches. Now that’s not criticism for anyone else so don’t get defensive 😉

[cheech1]

#61779

king would be.
you said about j wesbrooks pig being gut shot.
unless my eyes are playing up the fourth photo in your first post that pig would be gut shot.
i do not care if you shoot 40# or 80# more bow will not make up for poor shot placement and i think you are getting confused with rifle shooting a larger cal rifle gives you some breathing space.
shoot what ever poundage bow you are comfortable with.
big boars do have large thick fighting pads but you don’t shoot a big boar in the pads it the same as shooting a water buffalo in the shoulder blade with an arrow it will not end happily.
i’m not to sure if ken beck is on this site but if he is ask him to post photos of the game he has taken and ask him if 45-50# bow is heavy enough.
just my 2 cents
by the way some very nice pig king would be

[cheech1]

#61785

also i believe those lost animal figures are more to do with bad shots and idiots shooting with the spray and pray method rather than bow poundage

[sapcut]

#61959

Cheech
“i do not care if you shoot 40# or 80# more bow will not make up for poor shot placement”
What?
You are more than 100% incorrect. A 40# bow is not going to bust through a scapula to get to vitals and kill a deer.
An 80# bow with a decent weight arrow.. WILL.

Dr. Keith Causey is one of the authors cited in the post by Kingwouldbe. He was my wildlife professor at Auburn University in 1988-91. He was also a trad bow hunter shooting a 70 lb. Rock Mountain recurve and shooting carbon/graphite arrows in 1989. He was well adept in the field and I would certainly rely on his information.

Regarding the low harvest percentages…I was a biologist and hunting guide at a commercial bowhunting only operation on the Mississippi River. I saw hundreds of bowhunters from all over the world hunt with me. 99% were compound shooters. They shot very fast bows and usually very light arrows and broadheads.
I guarantee you just as sure as I am writing this… if it weren’t for amazing Labrador retriever trail dogs the actual kill and recover rate would have been less than 30%.
I know because I trailed deer everyday with those dogs. Rarely were there pass thru shots made and dead deer found 40 yards later. A large percentage of the deer had fatal shots but were found only due to dogs. Some were shot that were not fatally wounded but the dogs would trail them, take them down and kill them.
What I saw was too many people wanted to use the latest and sexiest bow hunting equipment without regard to what really worked and made the most sense. Some of the problems were certainly due to simple ignorance that we all have but don’t realize until later.
I have no doubts about the percentages that have been cited in the different publications. I also think they may be higher than actual. Also back then, not only were people shooting low lb. bows but they were probably shooting low weight arrows with the light and heavy bows. As we now know..that makes a huge difference in penetration.

[rayborbon]

#61974

I’m about to swallow the kool aid on those wound rate claims the same way I am about to on the “random shot placement”.

I’d say the experience where people are hiring guides and chasing down deer with dogs is interesting but is that a good representation of hunters? Some of the people hiring guides need a lot more than a guide. Although not necessarily always true I do have some experiences with folks who do not even clean their own animals, or even partake in their own hunts. That’s a bigger discussion altogether. Bottom line – some people should not have a bow in their hand. Heck even a gun.

I don’t think anyone suggests that there are no animals that get wounded but I still do not believe those wound rates represent the hunting community in it’s entirety. I don’t care who published what.

[sapcut]

#61996

I agree…the bowhunters I referred to might not be the best bowhunters in the world but then again…should the best bowhunters in the world be the only statistical references?

Those are factual events from probably average hunters. I am very confident that happens all over the country. However with new research and peer pressure…those percentages should be steadily rising.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#62012

Kingwouldbe,

“Both Fred Bead and Howard Hill said PENETRATIONIS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.( of course assuming you can hit what your shooting at )

They both understood that if my broadhead does not make it into the vitals you cant kill it.”

I have a tremendous amout of respect for both Fred Bear and Howard Hill, but let’s be honest about something. They took some rather creative routes to “make it into the vitals.” I’m not judging them for it — things should always be viewed in their historical context and never judged by the ethics of another timeframe.

If I knew a bowhunter today who was taking 180-yard shots at elk, 60-yard frontal lob shots at sheep, neck shots at bears, or going for the old Texas heart shot, their bow weight would not be the first topic that we would discuss.

As an afterthought: If I’m not mistaken, Howard Hill also said that 40# bows were more than sufficient for deer-sized animals. 😉

[Jesse Minish]

#62094

A 40# bow will smash though a scapula of a deer with the proper arrow and sharp head! Most wounded deer are not wounded in my opinion but just lost to poor tracking abilities.

[cheech1]

#62252

hi sapcut
do not take what i say to offence as that is my opinion made up from what i have seen and done.
i was a guide in the nothern teritory in australia taking both rifle and bow hunters out on water buff,scub bull(wild cattle), pig etc hunts for 10 years and have seen a lot of tough game put down i would not take anyone on a buff hunt with a bow under 70# and 850+ grain arrows with strong 2 blade broadheads. but i have seen numerous boars grassed with 45# + bows shooting 10gpp+ arrows i still recommend strong 2 blade heads as do not get me wrong pigs are very tough but if they are hit in the right place you will only see fletching hanging out.
i’m also an avid deer hunter and comming for a guiding point of view i have used dogs to track wounded game then shoot them with a rifle.
but to actually let the dog kill a wounded deer is not only inhuman but unethical i do not know what the laws in the us are for that sort of thing but i would not only get shot by fellow hunters but be in jail to boot.
that just my opinion i hope you do not take offence.

[sapcut]

#62571

Cheech,
I do not disagree with you on the “dog killing deer” situation.
In those sutuations we would not know the lethality of the hit to begin with. The dog would trail the deer ahead of us then take down the deer. We would then assess the situation and see that it was a terrible shot or horrible penetration with terrible equipment and would not have been fatal. Sometimes the dogs would catch up to a fatally wounded deer that was still alive..and then finish it off.
But without those dogs there would have been many, many deer (70%+) shot with a bow and never recovered. Fatal wounds or not. Again, mostly due to inadequate equipment.

[Daniel]

#62639

I don’t know very much about hog hunting only to add that this is something that I would like to do one day 🙂

Perhaps someday…..:lol:

[kingwouldbe]

#62674

Right on guys I am so glade that we can discuss this sensitive subject like friends 😀

cheech1, I would not call it a gut shot as it is quartering up into the vitals, to me a gut shot is ether angling back or just through and through the guts.

the quartering in angle is one of the best shots for several reasons.

1. It enters much softer tissue allowing deeper penetration.

2. It can cut all the goodies ( liver, diaphragm, lungs & heart )

This is another quartering in shot, this old boar only went 30 yards.

Grizzly 160 blood trail.

[Jesse Minish]

#62708

You must have 2 photobucket accounts for all those pics you have king!

[William Warren]

#62977

King,

You are definitely hurtin’ those hogs. How close do you get? Judging from your gear, I’d guess you are closing to less than 20 yards, full camo including headnet. I know I would have a better chance at making a good shot inside 20 yards.
And I’m guessing you’re hunting in Texas?
Duncan

[Jesse Minish]

#63045

Not trying to speak for King but the stuff I have read about his pig hunting adventures were all in his home state of California.

[kingwouldbe]

#63190

Jessie’s right all So.Cal.

I like to get as close as I can, last year 5 yards was my closest and 35 yards was the longest.

I’m definitely a hog-a-halic, I like to hunt hogs as much as I can.

I had a loin for dinner tonight 😀

[sapcut]

#63196

David,
Is that a Habu your shooting?

[Chris Shelton]

#63756

Kingwouldbe wrote: All things being equal the 40lb bow can never out perform the 60lb bow, just as the .22 can never out preform the .500 nitro

With the .22, like the lighter bows, you are limited in both the size and distant of the effective range.

I agreed with alot of what you have said, but I have to say that your statement here is false. I can say that a 22 can outperform a 500 nitro. If I am not mistaken I have never seen a 500 nitro with a scope, probably because it is a beast and the kick on that mother is unbearable. But if that is the case then the effective range is limited dramatically compared to a rifle with a scope.

In vietnam a study was done saying that it took 10000 rounds from a marines M-16 to kill one vietcong, and an average of 1.25 bullets from a snipers rifle! I know we are talking about hunting here. But I know that with my shooting capabilities, I can effectively place a 22 round in a target the size of a whitetails brain 100% of the time, at 150 yards with a 22lr. I know that guys miss whitetail with rifles and compounds all the time? This I can not grasp. Why is that possible with the drastic improvement in balistics today? And with the imroved rifle/bullet combinations on modern rifles? I will tell you because they ramp up there firearms too much to the point that they do not know there firearm to the point that they can drive tacks into the wall at the distance they are shooting!

I would not shoot a whitetail with a 22, mearly for the fact that it is illegal. But I have heard stories about it all the time. I beleive that I could go out and EASILY harvest a whitetail with a rifle and people who hunt firearms season and come back empty handed are either A) hunting for a trophy, or B) a terrible hunter? Just my opinion. And this is from a fellow that has hunted almost 95% archery for the last three years. I can understand terrible statistics for traditional bowhunters. But the rest of hunters have no excuse. Traditional bowhunters are shooting off there own pure skill, and if they miss it is because of there imperfections. A person holding a 300 winchester with a grouping size of plus or minus .0000001 of a inch at 100 yards, should NEVER miss a target the size of a whitetails vitals. And if hunters can not say, at least 98% that they can hit that elk at 450 yards, then they should get closer! Seriously how hard is it to close the gap from 450 to 150? If we are talking closing a gap between 50 and 20 yards, that is hard, but saying oo no I cant get any closer than this is bull crap.

Sorry a bit angry, just watched a pig wound a elk at 400 yards on some stupid show. I just hate it. I know how hard it is to shoot long ranges. But I have minor difficulties with a 22lr, that is at 300 yards, I can not even imagine how easy it would be to hit a target at 300 yards with a bigger firearm. But some people just cant shoot, and they need to learn to draw the line!

[desertdude49]

#63924

Guys,

King/Dave is a friend of mine. This guy IS a HUNTER who has taken more game than anybody I know or have heard of. Dave’s passion for bowhunting comes out when ever the topic comes up. He speaks from Results he has seen from years in the field. What is refreshing is his willingness to teach others and also change when he learns a better way. I truly belive his goal/passion is to inprove our sport/way of life. I know I have learned from him and I have been at this for 20+ years.

Thanks again Dave for all you do for Traditional Bowhunting.

[Patrick]

#63942

Greatreearcher wrote: I agreed with alot of what you have said, but I have to say that your statement here is false. I can say that a 22 can outperform a 500 nitro. If I am not mistaken I have never seen a 500 nitro with a scope, probably because it is a beast and the kick on that mother is unbearable. But if that is the case then the effective range is limited dramatically compared to a rifle with a scope.

In vietnam a study was done saying that it took 10000 rounds from a marines M-16 to kill one vietcong, and an average of 1.25 bullets from a snipers rifle!

:shock:GTA, you are WAY wrong here buddy! A 22LR cannot “outperform” (whatever that means) a large caliber centerfire rifle. YOU may be able to shoot a deer in the brain and kill it with a 22, but that doesn’t prove a thing. Other than your ability to handle a 22 vs a large, heavy recoil gun. Your sniper analogy proves this point as well. Snipers generally use a 308 Winchester or a 50 BMG. Infantrymen use a 223 Remington. I’m using the civilian designationS, since those are the designations used for hunting rifles, etc. You are comparing other variables and not THE one and only variable that is meant to be part of this discussion all the way back to the begining: Taking the discussion back to where it was intended: Kingwouldbe is saying use as much as you can handle AS OPPOSED TO as little as you can get away with. Very simple and makes complete sense

[Jason Wesbrock]

#63978

Patrick wrote: Kingwouldbe is saying use as much as you can handle AS OPPOSED TO as little as you can get away with. Very simple and makes complete sense.

Patrick,

Perhaps I have misinterpreted David’s posts. I was under the impression that he has been stating that 45# was insufficient in and of itself, and should not be used. If I was mistaken, I hope he corrects me.

That being said, I agree with using as much poundage as you can handle; key words being “as you can handle.” If the original poster stated that he could handle 55# just fine, but wanted to know if he should hunt with 45# because he wanted to see how little he could get away with, my reply would have been to stick with 55#. If he has no problem shooting the higher poundage, it’s a proverbial free lunch—the extra poundage creates no risk to offset whatever benefit it may yield, real or perceived.

But that’s not what he posted. Here is his quote:

snuffornot wrote: Thanks Hiram,
I’m shooting 45# right now. I was having difficulty with my usual 55# bow so I dropped back in poundage and am shooting much better now.

So with that, the discussion becomes about acknowledging what actually is sufficient poundage and then weighing the risks and rewards of anything above that point. There are decades of historical data to prove that 45# is sufficient for the species he is pursuing. And since he is having difficulty handling 55#, I view the question as that of shooting accurately with sufficient poundage versus hunting with the inaccuracy and lack of control that comes from being overbowed.

[Chris Shelton]

#63993

Patrick wrote: A 22LR cannot “outperform” (whatever that means) a large caliber centerfire rifle. YOU may be able to shoot a deer in the brain and kill it with a 22, but that doesn’t prove a thing. Other than your ability to handle a 22 vs a large, heavy recoil gun. Your sniper analogy proves this point as well. Snipers generally use a 308 Winchester or a 50 BMG. Infantrymen use a 223 Remington. I’m using the civilian designationS, since those are the designations used for hunting rifles, etc. You are comparing other variables and not THE one and only variable that is meant to be part of this discussion all the way back to the begining: Taking the discussion back to where it was intended: Kingwouldbe is saying use as much as you can handle AS OPPOSED TO as little as you can get away with. Very simple and makes complete sense

No you are not understanding the term perform in this scenerio. When I say perform, I mean kill. At a effective distance, and a 22lr, will perform just the same at 150 yards as a 500 nitro. With that said, we dont do it because we are told that it is unethical(not to mention illegal). Does this mean that a 38 grain bullet traveling at 1235 feet per second will do any less damage at 150 yards vs, a 100 grain bullet skeetin along at 2500 fps will do more damage. It all comes back to shot placement, of course a 38 grain bullet will not do crap in the lung area on a whitetail, but it will drop them like a rock in the skull. What I am saying is that hunters overkill way too often.
With my vietnam era example, it was to give evidence that a rifle with a scope is more effective than one without. Plus that and I beleive a infantry man in vietnam would have been using a nato round, not the modern 223 of todays war, also the snipers were using a 30-06 still I beleive. But the caliber size is irrelevant, what is relevant is that there is a reason that you normally only see hunters using a 500 nitro on targets the size of mac trucks, and that is because I have heard that they are not very accurate. With that said, hunters have also killed elephants with a 22 mag, like I said before my great uncles in canada have killed piles of deer with a 22 short, before it was illegal along with killing a moose with a 30-30. Archers would shoot at 65 yards and kill a deer. I think what king would be has said is that he would use any weapon neccesary to make sure the animal doesnt get back up, even to the extent of a bazooka. So what I am saying is, I hunt for meat, and I want some left when I am done!!

[Hiram]

#64003

6,s will not penetrate a groundhog at 25 yds.? You missed him.
22 LR kills at 280 yds.? Wow!
Guy kills umpteen Hogs with archery tackle=Knows what he is doing and warrants credibility.
45 vs. 55 ? We know given equal Bow efficiency in the system comparison will yield more energy to the arrow.
No argument here. The “Hog killer” King definitely speaks from experience on understanding Hog anatomy.
He did not say 45 was not enough. I understood it that: More is better if one can shoot it accurately relatively.
I know that the reference to firearms was only an analogy. The Bow kills by cutting internal organs. The bullet kills by hydrostatic shock. Bows and arrows are amazing tools for performing such tasks by simply cutting.
Great thread with a lot of factual information and a lot of BS added, LOL.:)

[Hiram]

#64018

GT, careful, you are blowing some with the firearms stuff.
NATO round? 5.56 or 762×51, or 30-06? Depends on what year it was to know what rifles were availiable. Hathcock started with a Mod 70 Winchester in 30-06 and ended with a 308 win. rifle,Remington. The 500,s are accurate along with the all the Nitros, HH.s and magnums. MOA accuracy, no problem.
Scopes make a rifle more efficient? Depends on the use. CQB? No. Long distance shooting? I guess. Civil war documented confirmed in the thousand yd. realm with the Whitworth rifles etc. 22 LR is a small game round. 30-30 is a Deer cartridge, which was the first smokeless cartridge Winchester introduced. No need for any confirmation on its ability. We should keep our posts as factual as possible! We do not want to mislead anyone into trying something stupid.

[Daniel]

#64047

I don’t know but if any of you ever need someone to be the camp cook or need a guy to haul out the hogs, or even to cook on a spit, sharpen broadheads, heck, I’ll even do the dishes if I have too, let me know 😆

Hunting hogs seems to be something else !!!

SB – with a really big smile on his face 😀

[Patrick]

#64053

I most certainly understand, but COMPLETELY disagree with you. A 22LR will NOT perform as well as ANY high powered centerfire rifle at 150 yards UNLESS your goal is to merely prevent pelt/skull damage for mounting…ESPECIALLY on a head shot.

500 Nitro’s, and the like, are not used only on “Mac truck” sized animals because of their inaccuracy, it’s because they pound the [beeeeep] out of ya!

You’re missing the point again and going off on ANOTHER tangent with the sniper thing. MY POINT: snipers use larger calibers than standard infantry in Vietnam (and forward). You brought up the scenario, and it proves the point. There is a distinct reason for using a larger caliber.

Scopes don’t make a rifle more accurate. They help the rifleman shoot more accurately.

I’d love to get into this discussion more, but tendinitis won’t allow.

You crack me up StandingBear!

[EDIT: corrected spelling errors :-)]

[Chris Shelton]

#8217

Okay, okay, lets direct this back on target, we have strayed quite a bit. I have hunted with a 40# bow, for whitetail, and as I have told many, the results were suprisingly spectacular. Now the arrow shaft penetrated through both sides, but the shaft didnt exit the entire way through the second side. It needed about 8 more inches to do so. That was with a 3 blade 100 grain thunderbolt, about a 400 grain shaft, vanes, a 40# recurve, at 22 yards. Now I would not say that a hog is smaller than a whitetail. Just shorter, and obviously tougher from the previous pictures, but I would say that a shaft out of a 40# bow would at least penetrate one rib cage! Just my thought, obviously kingwouldbe has ALOT more hog hunting experience, than I. I only have a vast penetration experience with small game. The legal hunting bow weight in Maryland is 30#’s for whitetail and bear?????? Are you kiding me? You can hunt whitetail with a 30# bow, and to make matters worse, you can hunt bear??? That is suicide. But yet we are not allowed to go below a 30 caliber rifle for whitetail? Just seems a bit unjust, I think mabye the people who origionaly wrote the laws just like the number 30 and have absolutely no concept of hunting or firearms or archery!?

[Patrick]

#8303

Greatreearcher wrote: …obviously kingwouldbe has ALOT more hog hunting experience, than I. I only have a vast penetration experience with small game.

The most important and on target point you’ve made. 😆

[Chris Shelton]

#8348

mabye so, but if you look at his past posts he is saying that 40# would be insuficient! That is where this whole bit is coming from!

[kingwouldbe]

#8361

Greatreearcher wrote: mabye so, but if you look at his past posts he is saying that 40# would be insuficient! That is where this whole bit is coming from!

Can you please show me the post you are referring to, because I don’t think I ever said such.

[Patrick]

#8378

Greatreearcher wrote: mabye so, but if you look at his past posts he is saying that 40# would be insuficient! That is where this whole bit is coming from!

No he didn’t! Here is what he said:

Kingwouldbe wrote:
Most can’t shoot 100lb bow so, we have to shoot the best tackle we possibly can with our physical limitations. if all I can shoot is 40-45lb, I have to limit what I shoot at and the shots I will take.

[Chris Shelton]

#8401

This is the one I am refering too, so king you really are not saying that 40# is ineffective, but you are definatly saying that it is not as effective!

Kingwouldbe wrote: Some can only shoot 40lbs and that’s OK, but that tackle comes with more limitations than, lets say 60-70lb.

All things being equal the 40lb bow can never out perform the 60lb bow, just as the .22 can never out preform the .500 nitro

With the .22, like the lighter bows, you are limited in both the size and distant of the effective range.

what I am saying is that there are some people out there that can be efficient with a 500 nitro or a 100 pound bow, but I would be willing to bet that a person, no matter the size or strength of the person would be more effective with a lighter/softer weapon. If you cannot effectively place that arrow where it needs to go, no amount of force will make up for it, and that goes along with the new compounder mentality of, oo my rage cuts a 2 inch gash so I have alot more leway than you do!? Some people can not effectively place that arrow where they want it to go because of lighter bow weights.

It is a simple fact that the faster the arrow goes, the more forgiving the bow will be. So if you are having trouble with lighter bows, you should adjust your form. That is why compound are so effective, even shot bare they are more effective than recurves. Because they are faster. Which is probably why some have issues with lighter bows. If you drop your bow arm with a 40 pound bow, it makes a difference, but if you do it with a 70 pound bow, you will find that the arrow will not stray as much! the bows weight really has nothing to do with how well the arrow penetrates. And I would think that with all of Dr Ashby’s studies you guys would realize this. It is the projectile itself that is the weapon, how it is launched is important, but not as importand as the weapon itself.

Basically, bottom line is this- for hogs, you need a sharp broadhead, a acurate shot, and effectively heavy arrow. Does not matter how powerful your bow is or is not!

[Patrick]

#8404

Greatreearcher wrote: Basically, bottom line is this- for hogs, you need a sharp broadhead, a acurate shot, and effectively heavy arrow. Does not matter how powerful your bow is or is not!

🙄 Good. I’m going to buy a bow that pulls 10 pounds at my draw length and kill me some hogs!

[kingwouldbe]

#8485

Greatreearcher you need to stop my friend, you are looking like you have no clue about what your talking about.

You could not be more off course.

[Daniel]

#8494

Alright, I’m actually interested in what your actual hog set up would be !!?

” Anything is possible in this world if you add to it a bit of hope “

I’ll start, ok, I would shoot a hog with my short Quartermoon flatbow, Alaskan Grizzlystik 30″ and a 200 grain Single Bevel Maasai. My draw length is 28″ so I’d really feel comfortable using that set up knowing all that I know about hog hunting.

How does that sound, keeping in mind that would be my actual set up.

SB

[Daniel]

#8500

And remember, I can do dishes folks !!!!!!:wink:

SB

[kingwouldbe]

#8517

StandingBear, you left out your bow weight at your draw 😕

[kingwouldbe]

#8540

Because you asked, I usually shoot between 55lb-70lb with about a 10-12 grain per lb arrow weighted forward with grizzly 190s.

I just made up some 705 grain internal footed arrows with a 28% efoc out of a 60lb Centaur longbow.

I hope to do some testing for some extreme shot angles this year on the thick part of the shoulder and the ridge on the scapula, ( after the kill of course)

[Chris Shelton]

#8605

Sure patrick go at it. Native americans used to use 15# longbows to kill buffalo from horseback. But I bet they had some razor sharp stone tips on there arrows! I have seen a hunter on tv shoot a razorback boar with a airgun, size .22. I dont care what you guys think of me. The data is simple and the doc has proven that you do not need a heavy bow weight to bring down big game! Mabye I should direct you guys to his thread about hunting buffalo with a 40 pound bow. I refuse to belive that a hog is tougher than a buffalo. Like I said before the minimum draw weight for hunting BEAR in my state is 30 pounds. So if you are saying that 40#’s for hunting hogs is insufficient, then you my freind are the one that looks as though they havent got a clue!

[Hiram]

#8691

Plains Indians used short Bows on Horses up to the 70,s range. WHERE did you read that they used 15? I would appreciate it if, You would research more before you talk.
Your a great fella! Now let it go, and learn from others.:)

[Hiram]

#8696

King, would be very interested in your future findings on your Hog Hunting. Appreciate your efforts to share your knowlege.You obviously understand what it takes to be successful on these large California animals. The size of these hogs you are hunting is amazing. Dangerous if one turned on you I bet.Bet the set-up you are using corresponds with what is needed to penetrate and kill these monsters.

[Daniel]

#8711

King, your so right !!!!! 🙂 63# draw weight

[desertdude49]

#8767

Did you just say you saw someone shoot a hog with a pellet gun(air gun)? Did it bounce off? What does an Air gun have to do with Traditional Bowhunting? Go ahead and shoot the min bow weight, Look at it this way,… If my set up is good enought to take big hogs, elk, moose then it will surly work on smaller game.

[sapcut]

#8820

I totally understand how Ultra EFOC arrows are a low poundage bow’s best buddy and that is great insight Dr. Ed is sharing with us. But…

In general, this mindset of “how low can I go?” regarding traditional bowhunting is so irresponsible and ridiculous.

I have seen this on other forums as well and cannot imagine how this came to be. If that is how one thinks then go shoot a training wheel bow and keep it out of the traditional bowhunting arena.

[William Warren]

#8892

This debate reminds me of that old fishing adage: You can catch a big fish with a small hook but you can’t hardly catch a small fish with a big hook. 😉

It makes total sense to me to carry as much bow as you can shoot well so you won’t have to pass on game that is too big for a lighter setup. As I said earlier, I like how King broke it out by bow weight and animal size. I won’t ever be shooting over 65# at my draw length so I will be confident on hogs up to 250# as long as my shots are 20 yards or less and at a quartering away angle.

When I started this thread I never imagined it would take the turns it has taken but I am grateful to all for all of the advice and amusement on this hog hunting thread.:)

[kingwouldbe]

#8899

StandingBear wrote: Alright, I’m actually interested in what your actual hog set up would be !!?

” Anything is possible in this world if you add to it a bit of hope “

I’ll start, ok, I would shoot a hog with my short Quartermoon flatbow, Alaskan Grizzlystik 30″ and a 200 grain Single Bevel Maasai. My draw length is 28″ so I’d really feel comfortable using that set up knowing all that I know about hog hunting.

How does that sound, keeping in mind that would be my actual set up.

SB

Hi Bear, you also did not give your total arrow weight and your efoc.

But I think your around 63lb with a 600-650 grain arrow, which is some BAD MEDICINE for hogs.

PS do you do the dishes before or after you hog hunt:P lol

[kingwouldbe]

#8908

snuffornot wrote: This debate reminds me of that old fishing adage: You can catch a big fish with a small hook but you can’t hardly catch a small fish with a big hook. 😉

It makes total sense to me to carry as much bow as you can shoot well so you won’t have to pass on game that is too big for a lighter setup. As I said earlier, I like how King broke it out by bow weight and animal size. I won’t ever be shooting over 65# at my draw length so I will be confident on hogs up to 250# as long as my shots are 20 yards or less and at a quartering away angle.

When I started this thread I never imagined it would take the turns it has taken but I am grateful to all for all of the advice and amusement on this hog hunting thread.:)

Snuff, hogs are just to much fun to Tradbowhunt, it’s a good question, thanks for getting us thinking,

[Daniel]

#8930

Listen King, on a hog hunt, I’d be doing dishes in the morning, after lunch and after diner, heck, I’d do dishes from the day I’d start till the end and I’d cook too, and make coffee 🙂 LOL

What an outstanding hog hunting tread 😀

[William Warren]

#8933

Bear

We could just use paper plates so you won’t miss any of the action. Would burning the plates be worse/better than pouring “grey” water out after doing dishes? I mean we will have a camp fire and it will be making smoke and paper is made from trees. Same smoke. Right?

Duncan

[kingwouldbe]

#8940

Um! I don’t think they can smell smoke…… um!…. it’s natural.

No, they can smell smoke and you, I smoke cigars all the time while hunting, it don’t matter, just keep the wind in your face.

[Patrick]

#8956

Kingwouldbe wrote: Um! I don’t think they can smell smoke…… um!…. it’s natural.

No, they can smell smoke and you, I smoke cigars all the time while hunting, it don’t matter, just keep the wind in your face.

Lol! You seem to have a photo for every discussion.

[desertdude49]

#9129

King (Brother) I can’t wait to put my new set-up to the test this weekend and next. 58# @29″ 630gr arrow with 375gr on the working end. Then in April of 2010 at or hog hunt in Texas. I’ll take alot of pic’s.

[Hiram]

#9169

Hey King, you should change to dipping snuff! or do you do that while your not smoking? I dip, and do not want to quit, It helps me get my shooting eye right! I must admit to any kids that are reading this, do not start any of these nasty costly habits. Stick to just hunting LOL:D King you are a killer man! More pics.

[Chris Shelton]

#9424

Hiram wrote: WHERE did you read that they used 15?

I didnt read it, and this is the last thing I am saying regarding my loosing argument, but I learned it in school. Not sure if the teacher knew what he was talking about looking back on it now?! I looked afterwards, and I did find that early native americans used bow weights from 15 to 30 pounds? That was before they started using sinew backing? But I am not sure if that website was credible?? So it is a mute point.

[Chris Shelton]

#9431

desertdude49 wrote: Did you just say you saw someone shoot a hog with a pellet gun(air gun)? Did it bounce off? What does an Air gun have to do with Traditional Bowhunting?

yes I cant remember the name of the show, it is not on anymore, but it was the guy that is doing africas big 5 or something like that. It was a really close shot, they were using dogs, and .22 air rifles are just as powerful as 22lr, but without the bullet stability. It was basically hog hunting with a knife style but he just shot it instead. My point was that if someone crazy enough to hunt them with a airgun can do it, than a 40# bow would be sufficient, but I dont really care anymore, I hunt with a 55# curve anyway, and I know that it would be sufficient, I just think it is silly that you should what not shoot because you are hunting with a 55# bow and there is a 400# monster there?? Just seems weird

[Chris Shelton]

#9438

snuffornot wrote: This debate reminds me of that old fishing adage: You can catch a big fish with a small hook but you can’t hardly catch a small fish with a big hook. 😉

It makes total sense to me to carry as much bow as you can shoot well so you won’t have to pass on game that is too big for a lighter setup. As I said earlier, I like how King broke it out by bow weight and animal size. I won’t ever be shooting over 65# at my draw length so I will be confident on hogs up to 250# as long as my shots are 20 yards or less and at a quartering away angle.

When I started this thread I never imagined it would take the turns it has taken but I am grateful to all for all of the advice and amusement on this hog hunting thread.:)

And this is basically the meat of it all. I like that anology, why didnt I think of that. My dad caught a true strain musky that was about 2 pounds from the maryland state record at the time, it was 28 pounds, 45 inches long, and a 28 inch girth. The thing was though that he was not fishing for musky, he hooked probably a 6 inch small mouth, and was navigating some nasty rocks at the time so he just left it on there. Out of the blue, a monster exploded on the surface behind the boat. Dad picked up his ultra light rod, with 6# test line, and fought the fish for 45 minuets. It was caught on a size 12 treble hook, a little crank bait! Looking at that, you might say, that is impossible but the fish on the wall doesnt lie! Ever since then I have used a smaller hook. Only a few straitened ones from monster stripers on the susqueahanna with a fly rod, and some other monsters using a size 8 hook on a jig actually fishing for shad. You would be suprised how little leway you have when fighting a 50 pound striper using a ultralight rod and 6# test line with a #8 hook!!

Anyway, I am done arguing, I will be back in a few years proving you guys wrong, that a 55# bow can and will kill a monster hogzilla:D!! Untill then best of luck to all you hog hunters!!

[Hiram]

#9471

Its Ok GT, You are my buddy.Keep on hunting and making videos. You are allright!:D

[Chris Shelton]

#9717

good to hear hiram, I enjoy talking to you all. I think that all of you guys are great, and full of knowledge and experience, so I hope I didnt piss any of you other guys off??

[Patrick]

#9747

Greatreearcher wrote: good to hear hiram, I enjoy talking to you all. I think that all of you guys are great, and full of knowledge and experience, so I hope I didnt piss any of you other guys off??

Anyone who takes these conversations and themselves so seriously that they get pissed off is not worth worrying about GTA! 😉

[kingwouldbe]

#9927

Hiram wrote: Hey King, you should change to dipping snuff! or do you do that while your not smoking? I dip, and do not want to quit, It helps me get my shooting eye right! I must admit to any kids that are reading this, do not start any of these nasty costly habits. Stick to just hunting LOL:D King you are a killer man! More pics.

I use-a chew, I gave that up, now just the cigars, no cigarettes.

I use my cigar as a wind detector, it works

The FRIDGE 😯 I want more than the minimum lol

[William Warren]

#9973

GTA,
I’m with Hiram and Patrick. I like to see guys like you taking an inerest in Traditional Bowhunting. Without you we would just be a bunch of old guys with nobody to take our place in the future.
I’m certian that one day you are going show us the first ever self recorded Tradbow kill on whitetail!
Duncan

[Hiram]

#10320

Get it on King! What a Hog man! I,m enjoying it immensely. California must have great habitat for these Hogs to forage and get so big. Seems that keeping them in check by hunting is very good from a conservation standpoint on the habitat and hog numbers.These MEGA HOGGGGGGGGGS!could EAT Javelina AND JUST BURP:)Kids, stay away from Alcohol, Tobacco, and drugs! Live healthy to hunt!

[ferris5574]

#11955

Kingwouldbe wrote: [quote=Jesse Minish]I hate threads about pig hunting! It makes me want to head south in the winter even more to chase them around!

Jesse, God made the Wild Boar for Trad-bowhunters, No limit, No season, Just hunt 😀

Kingwouldbe: Where are you killing hogs like that. I did a lot of hunting in Georgia and the biggest I got was a 300lb boar. Your right about the tackle, the grissle plate on a big hog can stop a bullet from a 30/30.

[Patrick]

#11980

ferris5574 wrote: Kingwouldbe: Where are you killing hogs like that. I did a lot of hunting in Georgia and the biggest I got was a 300lb boar. Your right about the tackle, the grissle plate on a big hog can stop a bullet from a 30/30.

Howdy,

Hopefully neither of you mind me answering :)…he hunts in California.

[Bert]

#14145

Kingwouldbe- We have just elected you to be the Dr. Ed Ashby of hog hunting and equipment experimentation- great pics esp. that one which looks to be the size of an M-1 tank! Went to highschool in Santa Maria, Ca.- do you hunt around the Paso Robles area?
GTA- I would have you peer intently on the tusks of these various porkers- guaranteed to rip you from, as the Bard said,”your gaggle to your zatch”-ouch! Highly recommend for your edification, John “Pondoro” Taylor’s “African Rifles & Cartridges”, a great tome of actual hunting ballistics of the big boys. Tho he highly esteemed the various large bores for dangerous game, he also stated, ” I would happily undertake to walk thru from Cape Town to Cairo armed with nothing but a scope-sighted .22 Rim-Fire and a powerful hand gun, and I am quite confident I would not go hungry.”
Good hunting- Bert

[joeb]

#14365

Just a couple of useful tactics I have picked up on shooting pigs with the bow from both my dads hunting experience and my own on pigs in Australia. I like to use smaller broadheads if I have them, and use heavy shafts. The smaller surface area of the broadhead will work better if it hits the shoulder pad simply due to less friction. I have seen a decent boar (about 45-50 kg) shot with a 30lb bow but that was at close range and the shot was picked properly, wouldn’t recommend that otherwise.

The shoulder pad of boars grows as they age, firstly covering the shoulder then growing back along the upper half of the side down far enough to cover most vitals. If you have time to pick a broadside shot when the facing front leg is forward you can aim low in his armpit which will sort him out.

I shot a 45lb bow when I first started on pigs and with sharp broadheads had little trouble, quartering shots going right through and out the opposite front leg etc. but I hit a young mature boar (which wouldn’t have had a really thick shoulder pad) in the shoulder and lost him. The penetration was about 3 or 4 inches judging by where the arrow snapped off, a little bt more and it would have been likely that something vital would have been damaged.

I shoot a 60lb bow now, but its still best to pick a shot that will miss the shoulder pad, aiming low is the way to go.

[srkatona]

#41400

Patrick wrote: [quote=Kingwouldbe]No limit, No season, Just hunt 😀

Really?Looking for information about where to hunt (self guided) feral hogs on public land. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Thanks.

[kingwouldbe]

#44594

If I where you, I’d head east to Texas, just pay for the trespassing fee and I bet you could find lots of good hunting there.

As Far as California go’s finding a good place to hunt is like finding gold.

[Stick n String]

#33229

I live in deep South Texas and certainly kill more hogs on an annual basis that any other animal due to their sheer numbers in the locale and based upon the ease by which local landowners will allow me to hunt them. In my opinion (and I say this having hunted Africa), a feral hog exceeding 150 pounds is one of the hardest animals in the world to kill. The pictures featured above illustrate the sheer amount of fat you must cut through to penetrate vitals, the bones are as dense and unforgiving as anything I have ever seen and the hair will literally dull a knife with a single swipe. They are some tough, tough critters. Moreover, their vitals are situated forward and are protected by the dense foreleg.

With the foregoing stated, and assuming you place your shot well, a 45 pound bow with a sharp COC head placed close to the shoulder on an animal quartering away will achieve adequate penetration for a kill. I would recommend more in the event your arrow does drift a little forward and strikes bone, however. With pigs more than with any other game roaming North America it is critically important to pick your shots. The room for error is miniscule, even with higher poundage bows and heavy arrows. A well-shot pig will bleed like geiser and will expire rapidly. An inch either way and you will find very little blood and no porker.

My $.02.

[lssa]

#33323

i will be hunting in texas for hogs and javelina next week i will be shooting 50lbs with 160gr 2blade zwickey hopefully it will work if i do my part
any opinions will be appreciated
thanks,steve

[Ed Ashby]

#39562

I’ll vote to have David be the proxy when it comes to arrows on HOGS (as opposed to a mere piggy). On HOGS he is not “Kingwouldbe”, he is the undisputed King! 😀

Ed

[William Warren]

#39926

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: I’ll vote to have David be the proxy when it comes to arrows on HOGS (as opposed to a mere piggy). On HOGS he is not “Kingwouldbe”, he is the undisputed King! 😀

Ed

Amen to that Doc, but a piggy would be so good on the BBQ!

Duncan

[Ed Ashby]

#40972

Duncan, that’s “spot on”. Many would be surprise the number of decent size piggies I’ve passed on, just so I could shoot a lovely ‘sandwich sized’ pig from the ‘mob’. (The Aissie folks will all understant ‘mob’; its the catch-all collective term for a bunch of anything. They don’t mess with ‘herds’, ‘sounders’, ‘gaggles’ or nothing like that. Very practical, the Aussies. Brown Snakes are brown; Red Snakes are red and Black Snakes are black. Shame about those Taipans – not sure how that happened, but at least there are Costal Taipans, found along the coast and Inland Taipans found … well, you get the idea!)

Ed

[William Warren]

#41244

Amen again Doc. If I can ever convince a partner to drive down to Texas with me I got a place to go. I’ll be packing a bag of hickory chips and some Eastern NC BBQ sauce just in case we get lucky!

So the Taipans are non-native? That is a shame! Hope they don’t turn up in the States. Its bad enough the iguanas and pythons are taking over in the Keys.

Duncan

[Fletcher]

#25143

Someone suggested that I copy this post from the Ashby forum to this thread. Apparently, this bow and arrow combo was adequate for this pig. BTW, he eats pretty good.

EFOC in a wood arrow is going to be a challenge due to the shaft weight and spine limitations. It is possible to get some pretty high FOC, tho.

I shot this pig, 125 lb dressed, a couple of weeks ago. The arrow has 20.6% FOC. It is a Sitka Spruce shaft, 28″ BOP with a 50 grain 1/8″ lead wire internal weight and a 190 gr VPA Terminator 3-blade. Shaft spine is 70 lb and the total arrow weight is 620 gr. The bow is a 58″, 54 lb @ 26″ Pronghorn TD. The shot went in near the last rib and stopped in the opposite front leg, centering the heart on the way thru. I had paper tuned this arrow and it was shooting bullet holes.

A similar 125 lb hog was shot with a similar HFOC arrow, with a 70 gr weight and a Zwickey Delta. Full penetration, completely cutting ribs on both sides. I haven’t figured the FOC but it will be pretty close to the other arrow.

Interesting note: This is the only dead critter I’ve walked up on that had its eyes closed. It had me wondering for a moment.

[/img][/img]

[kingwouldbe]

#42700

good job Fletcher on that rooter

[Fletcher]

#47302

Thanks, King. It always feels great when you can watch them fall over quickly. He ruined my fancy arrow, tho.

[Ben Maher]

#14723

Just thought I’d chime in hear as the obligatory Aussie should when the tpoic turns to Hog hunting . Round here you’d find that 45# and up is considered minimal with 50# being considered the starting point . I like 52# from my Hill style bows with 550-600gn arrows tipped with solid two blade broadheads [ my favourites in no particular oredr are Ribtek, Tusker, Ace , Stos and yes …Hill broadheads…
I think, as has been stated so very many times that shot placement has more to do with a quick dispatching than anything else. Keep ’em low and fowrad and you can’t go to far wrong. Even our bigger pigs here have been taken often with sub 50# Hills style bows good sharp broadheads and shot placement have bought about the demise of some great size pigs tucked away behind decent fighting shields .
would i shoot at a large hog with low poundage bows ? No, but only because I’m able to comfortably shoot mid 50’s# . If an injury or other circumstances meant i could only shoot these lower weights would that stop me hunting pigs …not in a million years!

[USMC 82-86]

#17550

I remember a day, before it was impossible to take hogs 200 plus lbs with lighter arrows. I have used a 485 grain arrow tipped with a Zwickey head from a 55# longbow at 178fps many times but that was about 8-10 yrs ago. I guess the animals have gotten a lot tougher in the recent years. I take only good shots not marginal shots. I hear how upset people get with broadheads that are not strong enough and curl on impact with shoulder bone. I say don’t shoot the shoulder. Anticipate the general escape route a animal may take if spooked and aim a little further back it may allow for a better shot if the animal moves maybe even that quarter away shot we love. Most animals will flee in the direction they are facing and may then circle back in the direction they originally approached your position from. This is not a always the case just my experience. As for bone density dont shoot bone it’s hard and in most cases will defeat most broadheads. I work in the operating room and we use power drill when placing plates and screws trust me bone is hard. The femur bone in your upper leg can withstands thousands of pounds of pressure along it’s length, but as little as 16 lbs at the right angle will snap it like a twig. Hogs fight for a livings and take their punishment horizontally, bone becomes more dense with stress over time. The training that a martial artist uses to toughen their hands actually cause what are called micro fracture that then form a new more dense bone matrix. Another comparison is the bone strength in the jaws of animals, predators for example break bone with their teeth rip through heavy hide which increases strength in the supporting muscle tendon and ligaments. Remember bone is hard,be like the stream or river go around, over or under obstacles.Do not go through adapt,improvise,and overcome. Take the good shot and make the good shot. LOL:shock:

[carbini]

#17689

Duncan, Hello, here in Argentina we have biggest hog, look at the picture in the gallery, I puted two, We use 55# or more pounds in bows, and we have prove diferents points, We liked two blades beacuse are more probabily the arrow cross throght the body of animal and then you can find the dead animal.
The body of wildhog are too much wide than the deer and its have a shield of grass and mud in the toraxic region.
Best regards from Argentina and good hunt

[William Warren]

#25794

Carbini,
I saw your pics on the website gallery. Great job! Do you hunt from horseback to find the hogs?
Duncan

[Apex Predator]

#33217

Just thought I would join you folks over here! I’ve missed you King. You guys better listen to this man, cause he’s done it!

[kingwouldbe]

#34171

Apex Predator wrote: Just thought I would join you folks over here! I’ve missed you King. You guys better listen to this man, cause he’s done it!

How are you my brother?

Love your hunts also, really appreciate them, you “swamp hunters” have my respect.

[David Petersen]

#34181

Welcome, Apex! We’ve been missing David too … figured he must have been on an extended hog hunt, or busy cooking all that pork. 😛 dp

[JL]

#21271

Kingwouldbe wrote: Um! I don’t think they can smell smoke…… um!…. it’s natural.

No, they can smell smoke and you, I smoke cigars all the time while hunting, it don’t matter, just keep the wind in your face.

There are always a lot of threads with regard to bow poundage and the ability to effectively bring down this or that animal, based on correct shot placement; so I often skip over those threads because so much of the info has been hashed before or it is very subjective. However, this has been a great thread and not meaning to discount any of the participants I have to comment on just how much great info can be attained from the multiple post by Kingwouldbe! Really, if ever someone walked the walk this guy seems like quite a candidate. I have never been hog hunting so from complete lack of any firsthand knowledge, there has been a lot of great info shared. Man the size of some of those monsters is incredible. There is one parallel that I have noticed with regard to bow poundage and hunters age; that is that there may be a linear equation between the older you get the less poundage you can comfortably handle and the fact that as you age you also decide that there is no way that you ever could or want to pack out anything that big. I still shoot in the 55# to 57# range, but no way would I ever want handle the size of some of those “hogs”, no pun intended; wife and I just are not that hungry. Hats off to good post and thanks for great pictures.

[ToddRvs]

#29851

Duncan wrote: I’m thinking of doing some hog hunting early next year and was wondering what weight bow and arrows do other members use for hogs?
Duncan

I have killed a few hogs the biggest b eing 210 pounds with a homemade bow and ceder arrows with flint broadheads. My bow is rated at 41 pounds at 28 inches,

[ToddRvs]

#29855

Kingwouldbe wrote: Hi Snuffornot, to me there are a few type’s of hogs.

* under 100lb can be killed with almost any bow arrow combo.

* above 100-150lb is starting to get pretty tough and needs a good set up that’s able to penetrate at least 10″-12″ of chest.

* above 150-200 is a tough animal to kill with a bow, a hog of this size can have some real armor covering there vital area, the heaver bow you can shoot the better ( now we are not target shooting, we are hunting and we usually only take a few shots, so we can usually shoot 5-10lb heaver ) a heavy arrow with a deep penetrating broadhead.

* above 200-400 are as tough as they get and can take a ton of punishment and keep going, only the best of gear can penetrate deep enough to get a kill on these boars

Just my 2 cents my friend

Hey
How big is that last hog in your pictures. I have seen some good size hogs nothing on that scale though where did you shoot it at and what was the weight and what equipment did you use. Great hog

[ToddRvs]

#29868

Jesse Minish wrote: A 40# bow will smash though a scapula of a deer with the proper arrow and sharp head! Most wounded deer are not wounded in my opinion but just lost to poor tracking abilities.

I have killed several deer with a 41 pound 28 inch selfbow I made. I use ceder or bamboo arrows with flint or obsidian hand chipped broadheads and every shot was a complete pass through on the deer one shot even punched through the spine of one of the deer. All shots were less than 30 yards and most were in the 15 to 20 yard range. 40 pounds is more than sufficient for deer size animals. In fact I an heading out west to hunt elk with this same setup later this year. Will let you all know how it goes.

[kingwouldbee]

#37320

Hi Todd, my son shot that one, using a 60lb Axis bow from Hawaii my friend made me, the hog was around 300lb, shot it in the Heart, no exit, it ran around 50 yards and he hit it again.

As far as 40lbs for Elk, good luck with that, you’ll need it.

Can it be done? sure it can, and it has been done, just extremely limiting what shot you can take.

What happens if you flub the shot? or what happens if it moves at the shot? ( assuming you made a perfect shot )

In my REAL world, stuff happens, regardless how good of a shot I am, or how good I pick my shots.

I am not an advocate of light HUNTING tackle, nor, am I for over bowing your self, however I am for shooting more bow weigh for hunting than what we shoot for targets ( the Olympics men’s archers, shoot around 50lb bows for over 300 shots per tournament, maybe we might want to exercise )

To me, it is so silly, to try and shoot the lightest hunting tackle I might get away with.

Just my 2 cents 😀

[Ed Ashby]

#58728

kingwouldbee wrote: In my REAL world, stuff happens, regardless how good of a shot I am, or how good I pick my shots.:D

That’s the bottom line. If one is so gifted a shot that he/she can hit a flying gnat at 30 yards every time and clairvoyant enough to always know to aim where the animal will be when the arrow arrives on target it makes little difference what equipment is used. For us mortals, “Try for the best, but plan for the worst”.

Ed

[David Coulter]

#20084

This was a good link. Interesting stuff and all the tangents came back to the point. Good read. dwc

[Crystalshrimp]

#20254

Kingwouldbe, do you live in Texas? Man o man those are some sweet looking Swine. I’d love to get the chance to place my 681grain arrow into one of those. Hmmmmmmmm, it looks like there is no shortage of piggies in your neck of the woods. How about making some small vids on the penetration of your arrows or EFOC arrows shot right through the shield of these monsters at 10yds. If your pigs are not a perfect testing specimen for High FOC arrows I dont know what is. Truly awesome pics buddy. I tell you what buddy. I truly treasure the rabbits Im able to hunt as much as you do your pigs. Everything is private in Texas…………………..Again. Thanks for posting the pics

[kingwouldbe]

#25074

Crystalshrimp,

I can’t believe this post is still around, I was born and raised in So Cal. all of my hog hunting is here, it’s a great state geographically.

I have hunted hogs from 8000 feet in the snow, to the desert floor, to the Islands off the coast, you can hunt year round, so they get a lot of my attention, mostly after deer & elk.

I think our hogs have adapted to the environment, I call them mountain hogs.

We get our share of eaters, once the freezer is full, we switch to hunting big boars, we hunt lots of hogs we let go, looking for a monster.

Monster boars really floats my boat, a big boar has to be at least 5 years old, some I think are 10 or more years old, there not dumb, they wont let you make a mistake.

I hear way to many story’s of guys shooting a big boar, only to never find it.

This boar was shot at around 30 yards strong down hill, he went about 400 yards after being shot in the heart.

In this video I miss spoke ( I have know idea why I said, what I said, about how heavy the arrow was ) the arrow was 642 grains with a 31.38% efoc, why I said 472 I have no idea, ( maybe still high on adrenalin lol, who knows ) the Tuffhead broadhead alone is 350 grains, with a gold tip 300 30′ long, footed with 3″ of 2117, I am using a centaur chimera @ 60lb, and I never short draw as I use a clicker and the shot is around 6 yards, enjoy.

http://youtu.be/GO1U_bnUyzk

[kingwouldbe]

#25089

This boar was shot at around 10 yards in his bed, the arrow jumped through it so fast I thought I missed it, ( vary rare for an arrow to jump through a boar of this size )

I must apologize for the camera work, we are rank amateurs, but we have fun.

http://youtu.be/l5GU2MFyqRs

[William Warren]

#26287

King,

Whenever hog questions come up I just have to bring it back to the top. Best hog thread I’ve ever seen thanks to yours and others contributions.

Duncan

[Troy Breeding]

#26314

King,

As usual you make the thread….

All I want to know is::::

Do you have some kind of pact with devil or do you simply over pay the preacher????

It’s got to be one of the two to be able to find that many super rooters!! :D:D:D

Troy

[kingwouldbe]

#27141

UM,,,,,Troy nether, I know the Man, so I go straight to the top. 😀

God has blessed me my friend and I know that, but really, I’m just a Hog-a-halic, I might have swine flu, 😆

Big boars are like shooting a 30″ muledeer buck, with out having to wait to get drawn for a tag.

[kingwouldbe]

#27147

The thickness of the shield of the boar above was only about 1 1/2″ my arrow jumped through him.

This is what I have been talking about, there are boars, and there are big boars.

[kingwouldbe]

#27156

This boar had almost 3″ thick shield, my 60lb Centaur and 642 grain arrow only got about 10-11″ of penetration right in his heart.

I am 100% sure a 50lb bow with the same arrow would of been nothing more than a story about ‘I hit a big one, but lost it “

The light tackle crowd can go sale there stuff to some one who doesn’t know better.

[kingwouldbe]

#27164

They say every picture tells a store

[kingwouldbe]

#27169

Big boars are just flat out hard to kill.

[kingwouldbe]

#27173

Eaters are easy to kill

[kingwouldbe]

#27186

Don’t you just love cutters

[kingwouldbe]

#27194

Duncan wrote: King,

Whenever hog questions come up I just have to bring it back to the top. Best hog thread I’ve ever seen thanks to yours and others contributions.

Duncan

Hi Duncan aka Snuffornot, you go kill a hog yet, it’s been almost 3 years now.

I have a friend and he says; ” if you don’t go, you won’t go “

[William Warren]

#27317

Kingwouldbe wrote: [quote=Duncan]King,

Whenever hog questions come up I just have to bring it back to the top. Best hog thread I’ve ever seen thanks to yours and others contributions.

Duncan

Hi Duncan aka Snuffornot, you go kill a hog yet, it’s been almost 3 years now.

I have a friend and he days; ” if you don’t go, you won’t go “

Not yet King. And your friend is right, if you don’t go you won’t go.

I know I should not keep putting it off. I have an old High School bud that has them on his ranch in Texas but getting there is the obstacle these days.

I’m finding out more about the hogs right here in NC and some are on public land. So there may be a home state hunt in my future.

[Troy Breeding]

#27444

Kingwouldbe wrote: This boar had almost 3″ thick shield, my 60lb Centaur and 642 grain arrow only got about 10-11″ of penetration right in his heart.

I am 100% sure a 50lb bow with the same arrow would of been nothing more than a story about ‘I hit a big one, but lost it “

The light tackle crowd can go sale there stuff to some one who doesn’t know better.

BINGO!!!!! On that last statement!!!

Biggest hog I’ve taken was in the 200-250 range. Even though it was a sow it took two 700gr arrow from a 62# bow to stop it. One shot went to the nock and the other went thru both shoulders up to the fletch. Wish i had been shooting the arrows I now carry.

Troy

[kingwouldbe]

#28155

My friend just sent this to me, another little piggy from California, he’s sitting WAY BACK behind it, to make it look bigger, it’s really a 100lb’er

[kingwouldbe]

#28158

It’s amazing what you can do with Trick photography.

We Know who the George Costanza’s are.

Experts at everything, and yet, have never done anything.

[kingwouldbe]

#28164

If you get far enough back, you can make a 100lb’er look like a 400lb’er lol

[kingwouldbe]

#28206

Troy Breeding wrote: [quote=Kingwouldbe]This boar had almost 3″ thick shield, my 60lb Centaur and 642 grain arrow only got about 10-11″ of penetration right in his heart.

I am 100% sure a 50lb bow with the same arrow would of been nothing more than a story about ‘I hit a big one, but lost it “

The light tackle crowd can go sale there stuff to some one who doesn’t know better.

BINGO!!!!! On that last statement!!!

Biggest hog I’ve taken was in the 200-250 range. Even though it was a sow it took two 700gr arrow from a 62# bow to stop it. One shot went to the nock and the other went thru both shoulders up to the fletch. Wish i had been shooting the arrows I now carry.

Troy

That’s why when Duncan asked about ” How much bow and arrow for hogs? ” I answered it the way that I did, it’s like saying; Scott Hamilton @ 5-foot-2½ and 108 pounds is just like Pierre-Paul, @ 6-foot-5, 270-pound are the same, hogs are the same way, HUGE deference’s.

Some are vary easy to kill, others are vary hard to kill.

I’m no expert, as I am only on the north side of 500 hog kills, I am always trying to improve my set up, it’s not that my set up has not proved it’s self, it’s just I refuse to get stuck in a closed mind set.

The beautiful thing about keep improving your set-up is, we don’t lose what we already have.

If all I ever wanted to kill was a eater hog, under a 100lb, I could use some vary light tackle, as long as I picked my shots accordingly.

Me, I’m looking for monsters, the biggest, nastiest, rankest boar I can find.

[Troy Breeding]

#28586

Guess I’m gonna have to make it out that way and sneek into your backpack one day. I’ve been in just about all parts of TX, LA, AL, and MS hunting hogs and have only seen one that size. I thought the big dude was going to give me a shot, but as they always say “they don’t get that big by being dunb”.

Troy

[Jason Wesbrock]

#29297

Duncan,

I know what you’re saying. I haven’t been to Texas in a few years and have an itch to go back. What’s not to love about nice people, beautiful scenery, and plentiful game populations? A buddy of mine and I have been talking for about doing a Texas hunt for hogs, javalinas, and predators for a while now, but something always comes up with one of our schedules. Now that my daughter started bowhunting last year and my wife is taking it up this year, that type of trip sounds like it would make for a nice long family weekend

[kingwouldbe]

#30921

Jay,

That is a cool time your entering into with your wife and daughter, enjoy it, as it seems like arrows drawn, that soon our children are on there own and gone.

Also, taking them to a target rich environment, is a sure way to get them hooked on bowhunting.

[Author]

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