Holmegaard

[David Petersen]

#7017

1. Does anyone know where I can find exact dimensions/plans for an accurate Holmegaard replica (the shorter version)?

2. If any of you have made or own one, could you please post a performance report and pics?

3. Which bowyer(s) offer the best Holmegaard blanks and/or finished bows?

While I hear they tend to stack and require a short draw, I’ve always loved the design and have the hots to either build or buy one.

Thanks, dave

[Holten101]

#61592

Comming from denmark (actually born about 10 km from were the original Holmegaard bow was found) im ofc familar with the bow type and might be able to help you!

The following link is from a danish site for traditional archers (hope it works):
http://www.bueogpil.dk/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=9&allpages=1&theme=Printer

All the text is in danish ofc….ill translate on request!

I suggest you go for the second bow blueprint (thats a 50# bow with a draw of 72 cm – 28,3 in). The topmost blueprint is from the original bow (50# @25,6 in). All measurements are metric, but i doubt that will pose a problem;-)

I have made several, but having a draw of 31 inches I have had to stray from the dimensions – well, my bows were more like freely based on the design. Providing you can get suitable elm (Ulmus glabra) its a forgiving design – well, flatbows are in general.

Hope this is of use to you.

Cheers

[David Petersen]

#61903

Thanks much, Holten. Schematics are quite useful. Of course it’s the unique limb transition from flat to “vertical” that makes this design so attractive — and challenging to a first-time builder. I’m going to give it a try! Cheers, dave

[Clay Hayes]

#61993

If you get some time, you should post some pics of the progress after you get started.

[William Warren]

#62344

Wonder what type of tree they used in the link? I love the dark finish on the handle and limb tips. Looks burned. Makes me want to build one too.

[Holten101]

#62584

snuffornot wrote: Wonder what type of tree they used in the link? I love the dark finish on the handle and limb tips. Looks burned. Makes me want to build one too.

Im sorry to disapoint you, but it is wood stain…two colours were used – orange and dark brown to give that effect. The wood is, as in the wast majority of danish mesolitihic bows Elm (which in it self is whitish to light red/brown).

That Elm was used seems to be significant, since it was rather rare at the time (compared to ash, oak and birch….dont think yew bows have been found at all).

Elm is a rare tree in Denmark (once again…mind you it wasnt 20 yrs ago). Im happy to say that im fortunate enough to have 4 Elm blanks, with superb grain structure (but own dried:() lying around. They wont make Holmegaard bows tho (spelled “Holmegård”) since the “barkside” is not preserved.

Cheers

[Holten101]

#14464

Ok…its not an exact replica, more an inspired interpretation;-). But here is my bow as it looks at this stage of development:

Its elm and made of a machined elm blank…with cut-off glued on for more thickness in the handle. Its 172 cm long (sorry about the metric) and 4.7 cm at the widest part, just above the handle.

And here it is in the tiller

It pulls about 80 pounds…which I will reduce to about 50-60. It does stack at about 30#, but I hope that effect will be reduced once I reduce the limb thickness more. Its fast, but seems to prefer heavy arrows 700 grains or more!

Ill give post more details when im done.

Cheers

[William Warren]

#14805

Nice work Holten! I love the grain in the elm. Can’t wait to see it finished!

[Holten101]

#17376

Im in doubt here…I dont wanna hijack Davids thread, but I also dont think my bow deserves a thread of its own, so ill continue in this one (bear with me David….or feel free to tell me to turn it down a notch;-)

I have narrowed the distal 35 cm of the limbs in order to make it more Holmegård’ish. Its now down to a more manageable 70#…but it does not stack anymore (im pulling 31 inches and the bow is 67,7 inches). Its not as smooth pulling as my recurve…but I like it alot. Im a bit surprised that it has no handshock at all:-)

Narrowing the distal parts of the limbs seems to have upped the speed (I have no way to confirm this since more variables have changed).

Ill post more pics soon.

Ps: I definatly wanna make a true Holmegård replica soon

cheers

[Holten101]

#18940

A handle and a rest and im done:-).

The “narrow” distal part of the limb:

Details:

Ill bump this thread once I start on a true Holmegård replica;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

#37044

Ok…promised to bump once im on my Holmegaard project, but..truth is im confused on a deeper level. The cause is Bowyers Bible. those who have read the series (I trust you all have….if not get off the internet, grab a mug and start reading)

According to Poul Comstock (as I read it) the bows of Holemgaard age all had crowned backs…this is opposit to what I been “taught”. If that is true, then I guess a replica made from a board with no or little sap wood (as the one I have pictured above) is as close to the original as it is possible to get!.

Poul goes further yet by claiming that the bows were drawn reverse, that is hearthwood side as back!

Soo…to be honest I have no idear any more of what constitutes a Holmegaard bow!

Guess i have more research ahead of me:-)

[David Petersen]

#37263

Holten — there’s quite a bit on the internet about these bows, mostly posted from Denmark etc., including some pretty darn good photos of the originals. I have a file and will see if I can figure a way to get some of it on here. But a bit of googling should be worthwhile. That’s definitely my next selfbow project. What attracts me to the design of this bow is the unique flat-vertical limb design. I can’t imagine it’s as efficient as a standard longbow, but sure is a good looker and would be a challenge and fun to build as a selfbow. dave

[Holten101]

#39400

Ok…been following up on this and it seems that there is consensus that something must have been lost in translation or misinterpreted in BB2 (I cant blame the author(s)/editors because reading and understanding european archeological publications can be a b…not so easy)

Im as certain as I can be that the bows were not crowned…and that they were not constructed as “backwards bows”. I base this on second hand information from people who have seen the artifact, drawings, pictures…and the most subjetive of all…common sense;-)

Crowning and “backward” design of bows from stems 3-5 inches wide makes little sense (yeah I know….who says it has to make sense;-)

Well..im planning on cutting down a handfull of suitable elm staves so that I can craft some Holmegaard bow’s this summer. Ill try and document as much as I can and follow up here;-)

Good luck with your project David:-)

Cheers

[Chad Sivertsen]

#39672

I’m going to add a Holmegaard elm bow to my list of things to do. Is it possible to find elm in the States that would work? Dutch Elm diasease killed most of them I think.

Sounds like a fun project. I’m half Danish, does that give me a genetic advantage?

[David Petersen]

#39797

Chad — I’m from Danish stock too and have found no genetic advantages, esp. in the dancing and hair departments! :oops::D I do however seem to have a strong genetic predisposition for BBQ, Mexican food and ice cream. Go figure.

Not being the purist primitive you are, I would be totally satisfied to follow the Holmegaard design using osage. Now, if someone had a contact for elm in Denmark, that would be really cool. dave

[Holten101]

#39965

Yeah Petersen is quite a common name in Denmark, Sivertsen less so (im a Petersen myself..Morten Holten Petersen to be exact;-).

I have a few sources for elm (elm desease has been hard on the danish flora too). One is air dried boards (dried for 1,5 yrs according to a carpenter friend of mine), the other is me and a hatchet;-).

Ill be glad to ship a stave or two…IF (and this is a big IF) I can get suitable wood. Ill even throw in some danish chert for added authenticity;-). I cant promise anything, but ill keep you in mind.

David you can send me a mail on mortenholten@gmail.com so that I dont forget;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

#34653

Reviving an old thread I know.

Just finished this Elm ”Holmegaard”. It came out at 48#@28” and 66” ntn. The outer limbs and tips could have been thinnner, but it shoots well now, and I really dont wanna mess it up since I have traded it for a rather large, old bandsaw:D

A large knot in the fade to the stiff part of the lower, outer limb makes it look hingy.
Brace:

Belly view:

Side view (1-1.5” of set). Strangely it had no initial reflex like most freshly split elm staves:

Nock. Serving is for looks (and to hide a less fortunate fade:oops::

At full draw. The lower limb is shorter than what I usually make them, so its not a tiller im totally comfortable with…did my best tho.

As to performance…well, its a creadible hunting weapon im sure, it seems plenty fast enough with heavy arrows (650 grs). It has no stack at 30” but at 31” you wish it was 68”;-)…the Holmegaard design is a low stack, low string angle design I belive.

Cheers

[William Warren]

#34992

Nice work Holten! What kind of finish will you use?

[Holten101]

#36592

Duncan wrote: Nice work Holten! What kind of finish will you use?

Sorry about the late reply:oops:

I give all my selfbows linseed oil, the pictured bow has been coated once, so it will need at least 1-2 more coats (third coat takes for ever to dry)

Cheers

[David Petersen]

#37112

Petwe (:P) — Sorry I’ve been scarce here. Crazy summer with cabin improvements and having quit my day job and gone on Social Insecurity, so scraping around for hunting money — and the past several days gone hunting and camping. More kudos on your bow. I’ve never seen a stave bow that used the natural wood grain so artfully as you do in the handle of this one. Frankly, it’s the design I’m interested in more than being true to the original wood. I wonder how it would work as an osage or hickory stave bow? There is one outfit, I forget the name at the moment, that sells Holmegaard blanks already shaped and floor tillered. Anyone know anything about these? Soon I’ll be able to move my office into the new loft over the cabin, which will open up a nice insulated 8×12 shed which I plan to covert to a wood shop and get going with building again. This time no wood lam bows but only selfbows. Thanks for the inspiration and for sharing with us. Dave

[David Petersen]

#25152

Holten and other Holmegaard fans … is that bow you built “here” still shooting? Elm just scares me and I’m betting if those ancient Danes had osage, they’d have used it instead. But I was wrong once before, so could be again :). Can anyone think of a reason other than “purity” that we can’t build the Holmegaard design from an osage stave? Has anyone here tried it? I have some prime osage staves coming and would like to try something a bit different in a selfbow. Thanks for any advice, dp

[Holten101]

#25412

Hi Dave
Yes, all my Elm bows are still shooting (to my knowledge;-). But mind you I use Wych Elm (Ulmus glabra)…not Red Elm (Ulmus americana) or slippery (Ulmus rubra).

The original paleolithic flatbows from denmark were mostly made of Wych Elm (some of the wood identifications are somewhat doubious).

You basically cant mess up a bow made from Wych Elm….they allmost never break, even when rings are violated, and they take compression better than any white woods I have tried (or head of). Wych elms biggest drawback is a lack of elasticity (and maybe high hysterysis?) compared to Yew and Osage…and I suspect that the the lever tip design might compensate a bit for this drawback.

I have seen many excellent holmegård type bows made from Osage, and page 103 in tbb 4 display a record breaking osage broad head flight bow of this type (62″, 50#@28 and 172-178 fps with a 500 grain arrow).

If I had acces to osage then all my bows would be osage . You have more elasticity with means increased design freedom, …you can go slimmer and shorter before the bow takes set and/or stacks with any design compared to white woods. I bet my ancestors would feel the same had they had acces to osage;-)

Unfortunatly I only have acces to the “second” best wood…Wych Elm;-). Considder yourself lucky Dave:-)

Cheers

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