HEAVY SPINE/ GREAT FLIGHT???

[makesmoosecry]

#4358

Here goes my question… currently shooting a circa 1970 50# super kodiak.. PERFECT tune/flight with a 28.5″ Easton XX75 1916 with 125 gr head. HOW do i get a heavyer arrow to fly perfect.. like how about a Full Metal Jacket?? would i try to get as much weight as possible up front and maybe shoot a 30 inch arrow? Would i go to brace height? (brace is currently at 8.5 inches for the 1916’s)..

thanks,
Eric

[David Petersen]

#30005

Perhaps I’m confused, but it seems you are talking apples and oranges here. There are heavy arrows with light spine, and vice versa. But of the three primary shaft materials, aluminum is the hardest to get heavy weight with, being light to start with and for most sizes, only lightweight aluminum inserts available. You might consider trying carbon, which offer a lot of advantages over alum. IMHO, including a very forgiving spine range. In other words, CE 250s shoot well from all four of my bows including a 54# K-Mag, and with points from 125 up to 320 (plus 100 grain inserts and 125 grain adapters). Neither alum nor wood offers that wide a spine range, and it sure makes life easier. Plus, most of the weight winds up at the front where it belongs. Dave

[David Coulter]

#30030

To throw my two cents in, I’m shooting a 46# longbow with 2016s at about 28.5 inches. I’m shooting 130 grain heads, with aluminum inserts, but 75 grain steel adapters and getting really nice flight. My efoc is about 20%. I am strongly thinking about switching to carbons as my pile of bent aluminum shafts keep getting bigger…

[makesmoosecry]

#30102

hummmmmmmm…..i have been thinking about switching to carbon.. i have a growing pile of aluminum and it’s not fun to add to it.
One thing im not sure of, dealing with carbon is tuning it with the broadhead. I’ve been told you must heat a target head and then turn it with pliers, screw in your broadhead and ck the flight, continue doing this until you have proper flight. With aluminum, you just heat the area where the incert is and turn it a bit, wipe off the “black” that’s left from the lighter. I use Magnus Stingers 125 gr

thanks a lot guys

[David Petersen]

#30132

Hmmmmm … With ABS carbon shafts, which have a stronger and weaker side due to the unique way they’re made, you have to get the fletching position just right or they wobble. Excellent shafts except for this hassle which drove me away from them. With CE you just fletch ’em any old way and screw in the heads. I don’t know about other brands but someone here will as I’m still mostly a woody guy who just dabbles in carbons mostly for max FOC. But I have no problems with the CE’s and broadhead orientation and haven’t heard of such from anyone else. Awaiting more input from others …

[makesmoosecry]

#30264

yeah, im waiting to see if anyone else has input. I just screwed my magnus stingers in.. shot 3 arrows about a dozen shots ea. and they were dead on. But they didn’t all tighten to the exact same location, although close to horizontal (i haven’t heated up the incert and turned them)..yet they were perfect, i’d assume because of the shape of the head/quality (i do know the arrow was cut perfectly square, the noc is seated correctly and the head is straight) so i think im going to get some more to fly like these and call it “case closed” ..i will get around to a heavy arrow, focus on my FOC etc, but as im sure all will agree, even if im a tad light but the arrow flyes PERFECT that should be just fine and them some. I’d rather the lighter arrow fly straight and hit straight than a heavy arrow flying tail high or left or right just before impact in a deer’s side.

thanks for your imput Dave! it’s awesome you make time to give us your thoughts.

[Dan Jackowiak]

#30619

Broadhead orientation with carbon arrows, or any other for that matter, does not make one iota’s bit of difference. Its an old wives tale. I would not ever, comes from experience, heat the insert thats been glued into a carbon shaft. If it gets to hot the carbon looses its straightness and your heads will no longer spin true. The arrow is now basically ruined.

[clinglish]

#31016

Hi all , I am no expert but I have been shooting carbons exclusively for about 5 years now . I switch because I have several bows with a range of draw weights from 50# to 63#. I have used several brands of carbon but hey all have pros and cons.
I found that CE are a great arrow with consistant finish and perform great but they tend to be a bit stiffer than other brands in the same spine range. I have alot of GT Trads and they are excellant the55/75s shoot well from most of my bows but the center cut recurves shoot them best. I have been shooting the AD hammerheads for awhile and I am really impressed they shoot like a dream out of my longbows and they get great penetrationbut the nocks and inserts arent interchangerble with other brands . The joy of carbons are , if they aint straight then there broken and I have seen a few arrows built to shoot buffalo weighing in at about 1000grains and they fly like darts.
If you get a test kit from the brand you wish to try you can determine the spine that suits and then build them up to suit what you want from there.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#31149

makesmoosecry wrote: Here goes my question… currently shooting a circa 1970 50# super kodiak.. PERFECT tune/flight with a 28.5″ Easton XX75 1916 with 125 gr head. HOW do i get a heavyer arrow to fly perfect.. like how about a Full Metal Jacket?? would i try to get as much weight as possible up front and maybe shoot a 30 inch arrow? Would i go to brace height? (brace is currently at 8.5 inches for the 1916’s)..

thanks,
Eric

I guess my first question, if you already have perfect arrow flight, would be – why do you want a heavier arrow? There are a number of reasons why you might, but I’m just curious what your thinking is before I venture an answer.

I mostly shoot a 55# r/d longbow, but I also have a #50 1970 Kodiak Magnum. I shoot the same arrow out of both – GT 5575 @ 28.5, with a 50gr. brass insert and a 145 gr. head. As others have mention, carbon are pretty forgiving across a wider range, and this set up works great with both of my bows.

p.s. – never heard that you can’t (mildly) heat up the tip of a carbon shaft to remove an insert.

[Troy Breeding]

#36347

2blade wrote: Broadhead orientation with carbon arrows, or any other for that matter, does not make one iota’s bit of difference. Its an old wives tale. I would not ever, comes from experience, heat the insert thats been glued into a carbon shaft. If it gets to hot the carbon looses its straightness and your heads will no longer spin true. The arrow is now basically ruined.

Just found this site and logged in.
Thought I might chime in on this part of the thread.
For one, I’ve removed thousands of inserts from carbon arrows. At best I can say I might have messed up a half dozen. Pretty good odds in my book.

The way to do it is to never heat the shaft. Screw in and old field point and heat the point. Heat for afew seconds then pull on the field point with pliers. If it doesn’t move (and most times it want on the first try) try alittle more and pull again. Keep heating and pulling until you feel the insert start to move. Then slowly pull the insert out. Once the insert is out, put the end of the shaft in water not touching the sides or bottom of what is holdng the water to insure that the shaft doesn’t over heat.

[Steve Sr.]

#37034

Ive shot carbons successfully even though I just cant stray long from woodies. Just me but I’ll probably go carbon again when playing with UEFOC for curiousilty sake.

For me, My name would have had Deer in it instead of Moose lol so….not a huge issue IMHO for me.

ASSUMING that you are building “moose arrows” with EFOC in mind, carbon is indeed the way to go.

I got around the “cant heat the carbon shaft” by using glue on heads on steel adapters and super gluing the insert in the shaft, regardless if aluminum or brass.

That way
A. I have a MUCH wider range of head weight to go with
and
B. You can heat the head and adapter (off of the arrow) as many times as you want and just realign the head on the head adapter while it is on the shaft.

2 cents on the head alignment on carbon? I never noticed such. Carbon recover from the archer’s paradox faster than any material from my research and is what I give credit to the broadhead angle not mattering much, at least for my usage and opinion. Hardly makes that CORRECT but makes sense to ME. To be honest, I dont see it often on woodies either but still align them all the same. Old dogs/new trick stuff there. 😛

The 225 grain Tuffhead with a 125 grains steel adapter is already 350 grains even without a 100 grain brass insert in carbon the 650 grain bone threshold is a no brainer.

WITH the 100 grain insert I dont think you COULD build a carbon arrow much under 650 grains.

The not so secret major ingredient for FOC as high as you can get is, a shaft stiff enough for your purposes and as LIGHT, grain wise, as possible with your choice of head and head weight.

When starting out with such and using carbon its a shot in the dark (or was for me) to find the “right” shaft.

Depending on your bow’s center shot characteristics you can attempt to match that.. OR ….FOR ME, with super heavy up front head/instert/adapter combos it was MUCH simpler to just add a layer of leather to the strike plate area of my bows which would REQUIRE a softer spine for proper arrow flight. That ( too soft of spine) was what I normally ended up with when I found the shaft GPI I required with a head combo that would give me EFOC. .

I just found it an easier process to build the arrow to MY desired specs then adjust the centershot to “fit”.

and if I can do it??

Talk abot a NO BRAINER! 😀

The only “drawback” if one wishes to view it as such is that the bow is then set up for THAT arrow combo, specifically, and your same ol same ol arrows will no longer fly well.

The upside? Some may recall a previous mention of where I built EFOC arrows matched to my 43lb Super K and then built out the strike plate on my 55lb Super K to match IT to the arrows.
When I went hunting, I used the same set of six arrows, regardless of the bow I grabbed for the day and if I CAN do it…….TALK ABOUT A NO BRAINER! 😛

OR….one can always use that for a “reason” to buy another bow! 😉

God Bless

Steve Sr.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#37505

makesmoosecry wrote: Here goes my question… currently shooting a circa 1970 50# super kodiak.. PERFECT tune/flight with a 28.5″ Easton XX75 1916 with 125 gr head. HOW do i get a heavyer arrow to fly perfect.. like how about a Full Metal Jacket?? would i try to get as much weight as possible up front and maybe shoot a 30 inch arrow? Would i go to brace height? (brace is currently at 8.5 inches for the 1916’s)..

thanks,
Eric

My question would be, what type of arrow shaft do you want to use? To build a heavier aluminum arrow that will fly well, if you are alreay at the heavy end of the spine range (the thicker-walled shafts), you do the same as you would with carbons…go to a stiffer shaft and use a heavier head. You can get quite heavy with aluminums if you’re willing to add a lot of tip weight. Back when I shot a lot of competitive NFAA indoor paper, I used full length (34″) 2419s with very heavy heads. If memory serves, those arrows were over 750 grains.

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