Heavy Bows – Are they now a part of our past

[Daniel]

#5761

The more I think about it, the more I come to realize heavy bows really don’t appeal to bowhunters anymore. During the earlier days, I remember reading about guys regularly shooting 70 lbs bows with ease. You would even hear the odd 85 – 90 lbs bow stories. Today with the advent of EFOC technology, bows can shoot heavier arrows without having to use heavy draw weight.

Are heavy bows part of our past? I know a few people that still enjoy shooting heavier bows but I have noticed, they are few and far between. Do you think heavy bows will make a come back? Interesting thoughts.

SB

[Jason Wesbrock]

#45089

I think what’s popular with respect to draw weight comes and goes. People figured out a long time ago that you don’t need 80# bows to kill big game in North America — long before the term EFOC was a thought in anyone’s mind. Look at the draw weight of used hunting bows from the 50s and 60s. You won’t see many over 60#.

At some point a couple decades ago people started jumping up in draw weight again. Maybe it had something to do with compound bows being the norm and trying to match their energy? I honestly don’t know. But I do remember when I started bowhunting in the mid-80s and my paternal grandfather told me, “You don’t need but 40# to kill a deer.” Of course, he was correct.

I remember when I did the Kustom King interview for TBM and the subject of draw weight came up. Tim and Gabby told me that several years ago no one wanted to buy a 45# bow, and these days they don’t keep anything 60# or heavier in stock due to lack of demand. I suspect at some point in the coming years, higher draw weight will become popular again, and we’ll once again have to relearn the fact that shot placement beats horse power every time.

[Jesse Minish]

#45132

What Jason said is spot on in my opinion.

[Jerry Gowins]

#50107

At 55 they’re certainly a thing of my past! 😀

I’m shooting 49# these days for deer with confidence. I’m going to have to move up a couple of pounds to be legal for elk here in Oregon (50# min), but have no doubt it’s enough for elk with proper shot placement at reasonable distances. I’m shooting the lighter weights more accurately, too!

Jerry Gowins

[tpbc_hunter]

#51818

I shoot a 70Lb Bighorn Ramhunter longbow. Mostly because God gave me strong sholder and back, and I’m 25 so that might change in the futrue, but Howard hill shot 70lb bows when he was old. I like the heavy bow because on an elk it sure does the trick one shoulder hits (not the best shot but sometimes happen).
When i got that bow the guy that taught me to shoot (in his late 60) scoffed at me and said that was way to much. But later on he told me a story about how he shot a mulley doe with is 37lb recurve and had a perfict heart shot and got her but the next year he shot another doe and hit her in the shoulder blade and the arrow bounced out and did not hardly harm her. I don’t know what arrows he was using but asume they were ceader with bear heads (what he usally shot back then). So heavy bows and arrow set up is not all gone and do think that it has a place with bigger anamals like elk, bear and moose.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not as a result of works so no one may boast.

[Reg Darling]

#51953

Right now the draw weight of my favorite bow and my age have converged at 60. But 3 years ago I shot two deer a few days apart with a 52# longbow and heavy (650 grains)laminated birch arrows. The arrows blew right through them and flew on. (I love it when that happens)I have enough bows that nothing new is coming in the door unless something else goes out. The ones coming in will be lighter than the ones going out.

[Mike Bolin]

#52126

I have shot in the upper 50#s and lower 60#s for 20 years. Summer before last, I suffered with some nerve damage in my lower neck and out into my right shoulder. Docs told me that I had broken my neck at sometime (years ago, but I never knew it) and that some disc degeneration was going on. It was suggested that I give up shooting! I started PT and added some weight routines and the Docs agreed that I could still shoot, but to keep the weight down around 50#. Doc Ashby’s work wih EFOC has been a real benefit for me and as long as I keep up with the therapy/weights, 52# is very doable. If I do get to hunt Moose in the future, I will shoot a heavy EFOC arrow and go for a close, broadside shot! Mike

[Voodoo]

#54957

Technology is a great thing, especially when it comes to our age and stick and string archery, with the right choice it allows a hunter to continue shooting in his comfort zone(speed)even when dropping weight, but I’m afraid I’ll never give up my heavy bows, I have a twice broken neck and a third break left un-repaired, and I shoot bows from 75-100#’s, and I know these bows are way overkill for whitetails, but I don’t just shoot them to hunt, I shoot them to live! see I cannot shoot anything under 65#’s for an extended period of time, within 2 weeks of shooting a bow in that weight, the migranes start again, and memory loss follows, I lived through that hell for 5 years and will not do it again, I’m 49 and when the time comes that I can’t shoot without pain as I do now,I’ll have to give it up, but I won’t do it without a fight!

[Daniel]

#55207

Voodoo, a friend of mine dove in a above ground swimming pool, broke his neck in two places. He needed to get them welded together, basically, the doctors told nim his chances of walking were slim. Today, he walks and is one of the top bowhunters out here. And he like you, needs to shoot heavy bows to keep the motion he has left mobile. His light bow is 75# and his go to bow is 85#. This may be the exception to the rule but what I take from this is archery is physically healing to more people that I thought it was. Thank you for sharing your story and happy shooting !!

SB

[Dennis]

#55367

I’ve just got back into traditional bowhunting after 25 years. I quit because I shot heavy bows (81 & 74 lb. recurves) and wrecked my shoulder. The muscles got stronger than the ligaments and I tore everything apart. I missed bowhunting desparately so just a few months ago I bought a 60 lb. longbow and tried to shoot it. It seemed I was good for about one arrow per target at our local range and now I’m able to shoot regularly without hurting myself. I would dearly love to shoot my heavy bows again (a macho thing I’m sure) but I realize that it really isn’t necessary in order to humainly harvest big game. I love my 60 lb. longbow. My 635 grain arrows are plenty fast enough and the workout is the best thing I have been able to do for my shoulder.

[Voodoo]

#57675

SB, did he just get the fusion or did he get the plate too?….I got both, then the fusion broke and the plate came loose…. more surgery……then it broke again and ripped 3 of the screws from the bones….. couldn’t repair it, cause there wasn’t anything to screw the screws into, the wanted me in a halo, but I refused, so I got to wear a special hard collar 24/7 for 6 months……..that was in 2000, I’ve seen some of the best specialists since and they all agree.. no more surgeries….. but earlier this year, during an emergency at my home, I managed to tear out the remaining screw,the plate shifted and my left arm was left useless for more than a month, then one day I slipped and fell headfirst into our pond….. my neck made an aweful snap sound and immediately I had use of my arm again, and 10 min later I was shooting my 76@30 bow again. and not a spec of pain either…I was very lucky……as that snap could have very well shut me off tell your friend to be real carefull, as the trouble with our injuries are that one slip, trip, or fall could not just send us to the hospital, but may just shut us off…..as in dead…..

[T Downing]

#57891

A very interesting topic. Thanks everyone for their previous posts! I have tremendous respect for those archers who hunt with 75-100lb bows. There is not as many of them as there used to be. That’s for sure. It takes a special breed of archer to practice most of the year and hunt with heavy bows. Nowadays, a 65lb bow is considered heavy. I also applaud those bowhunters who have embraced “lighter” bows. It all boils down to accuracy and individuality. I shoot a sweet 50.5lb Matlock longbow for turkey. Most of the year, I am shooting a 65lb BW for everything else. Personally, I shoot the 65lb bow better. For some reason, the heavier bow’s weight provides me a better release. My fingers never pluck the string. Interesting. Have any of you heavy bow shooters (70-100) seen similar results? I recently pulled back an 80lb Stotler Longbow, it was so smooth and easy, it was difficut to believe it was an 80lb pull. I have heard of other bowyers who make heavy bows that are smooth to draw and shoot. Ultimately, heavy bows and lighter bows are all wonderful in their own way and both kill game very effectively. T

[Jesse Minish]

#58373

T, I have found similar results as you. My lightest bow is about 68# at my draw and I feel for me I shoot better than with lighter bows.

[David Petersen]

#59886

At risk of echoing other and better posts here — from a bowyer’s point of view, yes, they tell me they’re making far more lighter and mid-range bows today, and far fewer heavy bows (which we can ballpark at 60# and up) than 10 or 20 years ago. Clearly this is thanks to an aging hunter population (which shouldn’t worry us all that much, as this merely reflects the national aging of the Baby Boomer batch, including myself, which in turn is the predictable product of millions of terminally horny returning military after WWII). But too, top-end custom stickbows are far more efficient than even 10 years ago, so far as cast/speed. I experienced this myself several years ago when a shoulder injury due to over-practicing, forced me to drop from 64# to 55s which I’m still shooting today at 63 but won’t always be able to … yet I gained 10 fps while losing 10 pounds draw weight just due to the increased efficiency of the newer lighter bow that replaced the older heavier one. So traditional bow technology alone makes heavy bows less essential today for lethal penetration on really big game. Add to this the almost magical facts that Dr. Ashby’s research is delivering to us regarding the bow/arrow relationship, Specifically, heavier arrows combined with other research-proven essentials, esp. EFoC, deliver more penetration and lethality from lighter bows than “standard” arrows do with heavier bows.

So in sum, in my view, the trend to lighter bows today is a combo of three primary elements: aging and weakening of archers, greater speed of newer stickbows per-pound of draw weight, and greater knowledge of the dominance of arrows in the bow/arrow combo for killing efficiency … and there you go; here we are. I also agree with those who say they can’t shoot as accurately with heavier bows. Yet I have no problem with folks who can pull 80# or whatever and shoot it accurately. Maybe a bit of envy, however. dave

[Danny Klee]

#61266

I currently use a Martin Mountaineer ML-14; 70# at 28″. I use every bit of the 28″ and am quite comfortable shooting it at 15 – 20 yards. Some hunting companions of mine tell me I should go with a 55 or 60 bow because I am approaching 50 years old. however, I am quite comfortable with my 70# Martin, so I don’t see any reason to switch to a lighter poundage bow. If I feel the need due to strength then I will but as long as my body holds up and I am able to draw the bow with ease then why switch? I love that bow.

Dan

[Bloodless]

#63262

Heavy bows are sure a part of MY past, along with pumping iron, running marathons, hiking 12 miles a day in high mountains with a really heavy pack, a headful of hair … but happily, thanks to a loving and half-blind wife, I still enjoy “the girls”! 8):P Ol’ Bloodless

[surveyor527]

#63283

I became interested in traditional archery about 2 years ago, with no one to mentor me. I knew that I wouldn’t buy a new $500 or $600 outfit to start with, in case I didn’t like it. So I went to E-bay to find a used bow.
Many times the bow would be described as “too heavy for me now” due to aging muscles, injury, or what have you. I guesstimated that almost any modern bow is probably half again as powerful as that of the Native Americans’ equipment (which has accounted for countless big game animals). I decided on 45 Lbs. and ended up with a gently-used Kodiak Magnum. I have since treated myself to a new Martin Serengeti, 60″ but still 45 Lb. draw. It will blow through a 125 lb. whitetail deer, so what else would you need? I took it to Maine this september past but no luck, so I can’t advise on how it will do a black bear. Next year maybe!

[RI Swamp Yankee]

#64016

Couldn’t have said it better. In my view, today’s composite laminated 45# bow would have been 55# in 1965 and earlier for the same energy delivered. With 60 birthdays under my belt, that’s a good thing that keeps me in the game!

David Petersen wrote: At risk of echoing other and better posts here — from a bowyer’s point of view, yes, they tell me they’re making far more lighter and mid-range bows today, and far fewer heavy bows (which we can ballpark at 60# and up) than 10 or 20 years ago. Clearly this is thanks to an aging hunter population (which shouldn’t worry us all that much, as this merely reflects the national aging of the Baby Boomer batch, including myself, which in turn is the predictable product of millions of terminally horny returning military after WWII). But too, top-end custom stickbows are far more efficient than even 10 years ago, so far as cast/speed. I experienced this myself several years ago when a shoulder injury due to over-practicing, forced me to drop from 64# to 55s which I’m still shooting today at 63 but won’t always be able to … yet I gained 10 fps while losing 10 pounds draw weight just due to the increased efficiency of the newer lighter bow that replaced the older heavier one. So traditional bow technology alone makes heavy bows less essential today for lethal penetration on really big game. Add to this the almost magical facts that Dr. Ashby’s research is delivering to us regarding the bow/arrow relationship, Specifically, heavier arrows combined with other research-proven essentials, esp. EFoC, deliver more penetration and lethality from lighter bows than “standard” arrows do with heavier bows.

So in sum, in my view, the trend to lighter bows today is a combo of three primary elements: aging and weakening of archers, greater speed of newer stickbows per-pound of draw weight, and greater knowledge of the dominance of arrows in the bow/arrow combo for killing efficiency … and there you go; here we are. I also agree with those who say they can’t shoot as accurately with heavier bows. Yet I have no problem with folks who can pull 80# or whatever and shoot it accurately. Maybe a bit of envy, however. dave

[Carbomask]

#12159

heres something interesting maybe, would like to share: my first bow was a jetbow fiberglass bow as a youth, I was good under 10 feet..whoopie.I went full archery at age 18 with a compound, self taught, instinctive (whitetail hunter-bear).. moved to oneida in my 20’s, as it looked simple (like a tradbow). never went over 55 lbs. all through my 20’s I was in bodybuilding and rockclimbing. My first real trad bow ( at age 36) my wife picked up at a garage sale.. a howard hill 70# apache. I tried to “get into traditional” with this THING. I thought, it had terrible hand shock, and had no idea how to use it, or tune it. I bought others then on Ebay thinking howard hill was a throwback junkie bow. The ebay bows were terrible creatures, another fiberglass Jetbow 45# pearson, an old bomber recurve takedown.. then I got a modern 45# recurve from 3rivers (greattreearchery bow). Even though at that time I still did not know a thing about traditional.. I of course periodically tried to shoot the 70# apache. All I could think of was.. Massive Handshock, and Cant Pull it = Junk.
WEll guess what.. I’ve been shooting modern bows now..a 50# longbow, a 46# long bow, and this 45# recurve, and can shoot them all at 18 paces generally into a chew-tin. I have devoted myself over the past 2 yrs into a lifestyle of being in physical condition, and training, specifically for outdoor adventuring. Im 41 now. Im stronger and meaner than I ever been.. at this stage, I have taken great care of the shoulder.. Heres the point of my post.. .. YOuve heard people say their bows are too heavy “now”.. well, I’m thinking my bows are.. too light now. the 50# long bow is my cieiling, it releases better from the glove!! My 46# longbow feels like a toy, but wow. its light, and fast, I am just secretly wishing I could try a 70# bow now.. Im strong enough and know how to shoot a trad bow. (( by the way, you wouldnt believe it.. the apache bow we tried to sell it at a garage sales for like $2.00, and no one would buy it.? guess what, I let my son use it as a harpoon out in the woods, it got destroyed, and then I pitched it )) what an idiot. I would LOVE to have …if not to at least try to tune it and shoot it.. that howard hill apachi 70″ bow.. what an idiot. Any way.. I am going to secretly be in the market for a higher poundage bow this year.. and also, I am going to enough traditional events, shows and jambories to find that one I want.. maybe I’ll see you there!!

[Daniel]

#12181

Wow, this tread evolved in a sharing of wisdom through personal experiences and a sharing of hope through shear determination. Thanking all of you for sharing with us your thoughts and views on this subject.

[George D. Stout]

#15967

With age comes wisdom, and more folks are looking back at what has worked many decades ago and find it still works. What an ephiphany! I started shooting a bow in the early 1950’s, but I didn’t start bowhunting until 1965. That year most folks around my area shot target bows in the 35 pound range and hunting bows in the 45 pound class.

I started with a 45 pounder and low and behold it would shoot plumb through adult whitetails and those Razorheads would be sticking in the ground on the other side. There were a few folks who shot heavy bows, but only a few were able to shoot them well.

After the compound craze started, I shot a 65 pound Bear Custom Kodiak and found I didn’t really get any better penetration than I did with my sub 50 pounders. Fact of the matter is I was short drawing the darned thing so was losing anything I gained from the heavy weapon.

One thing an archer finds when he goes to a lighter bow is that normally his draw length increases. Well, it doesn’t really, but it does go to where it should be. Watch some guys shooting big bows now and then and study some of the form used…or lack thereof. Dan Quillian once said, and I believe this, that an inch of draw either way, is equal to about ten pounds of performance overall. That 65 pounder drawn to 26 inches is no better performance wise than a 50 pounder pulled to a full 28 inches.

A little older….yes, a little wiser….I believe so. Now you heavy bow shooters, don’t get your panties in a wad, some of you are great shooters and that’s cool. But next time you get to a shoot like Comptons, or Denton Hill, watch some folks shooting heavy bows…don’t tell them you are watching. You will get an education.

[Daniel]

#16823

Don’t worry George, I didn’t get my longjohns in a bundle :lol:, au contraire, I enjoyed your post. As usual, lots of wisdom and savoir vivre.

Just to let you know, I will be using my trusty Ben Pearson this next little while. This one piece recurve is set at 50# at 28″. I just need to get a few arrows to match it up and off I go. I am willing to start my education and will report back with my findings.

[heydeerman]

#20069

I use to shoot a heavier bow untill I broke my left shoulder in a motorcycle accident. I shoot 55-60 pounds and have been contemplating going to 50. I shot a 40# Chaparral kaibab when I was rehabbing. I nailed a rabbit in the head at 10 yards and it devastated it. I dont shoot better with a lighter bow. In fact I have a hard time getting a good release. I wish I could get back to 70-80 pounds but I dont think my shoulder will let me.

[SPowell54]

#37332

I have to say, the same conversations were taking place when I started shooting in ’72. Back then the average was 45# I think, but everything was measured at 28″. I worked into 60# because Fred Bear shot 65#. When I went to the long bow, I shot between 75 and 80#. It takes a bit more weight to get the same arrow speed with a straight limbed bow. I shot this up until last year when I had a reaction to medication for Arthritis. I ended up in ICU for 2 months and lost a lot of strength. I’ve built back up to a 45# long bow, and while 80# at my age is probably not doable, I’m still trying to get back to 60#. I simply like shooting a heavy bow. The old rule of thumb was if you could hold the bow at full draw for 10 seconds, you could handle it well enough to hunt with. At least, that is how I was taught, and I don’t think its let me down. My 2 cents anyway.

[Ed Ashby]

#39899

Posted the following elsewhere, but it seems to fit in (somewhat) with the discussion here. Yes, technology has given us more efficient bows, and some will equal or outperform less efficient bows that are as much as 20# heavier in draw weight. And, yes, we sure as heck know how to make our arrows perform a lot better at any given level of arrow force. And, sadly yes, there are a lot of us getting a bit long on the tooth. Still, there is no such thing as ‘overkill’ when hunting with a bow. Use all the bow you can handle with the best arrow setup you can devise. I’ve never, ever (not a single time) heard a bowhunter complain, “I wish I’d used less bow on that animal” or “I wish my arrow hadn’t penetrated so deep”.

Quote: “Just to keep anyone from misunderstanding, I’m in the “there’s no such thing as too much penetration” camp when it comes to bowhunting. You should use ALL THE BOW WEIGHT YOU CAN HANDLE (and the best arrow setup you can possibly develop for your hunting needs), and ‘handle’ is the operative word.

All that notwithstanding, it seems ever more frequent that I’m seeing some folks hunting with marginal bow weight by choice (certainly marginal based on the DEMONSTARTED TERMINAL PERFORMANCE of arrow setups like they are using with that bow force). Is it simply because it takes too much time, or too much effort and routine practice to keep the muscles tones enough to ‘handle’ a heavier draw weight bow? I don’t know, but it sure seems a lot more common nowadays than ‘back when’. Will their bow and arrow setup work when everything goes right? Certainly it will, but it leaves little or no room for error.

I also keep seeing reference to the ‘low draw weight bows’ used by everyone in years past, and the success that had using them. Not to start a firestorm, and knowing that there are a few old bowhunters around that say this too, but I don’t know where or when they hunted big game with all these folks who were using low draw weight bows.

It’s been over 50 years since I started hunting big game with a bow, and my first bowhunted deer was taken over 51 years ago. I had the pleasure of hunting on the first ‘bowhunting only’ deer lease in Texas. We had 120 bowhunters on that lease. I wish I had the actual data, but I would estimate that the average weight of the bows being used would be well over 50 pounds. As a mater of fact, in the 4 years we had that lease I can only remember three bowhunters who used a bow drawing less than 50#. Most used bows over that.

Though I was still a mere pup back then (still in my teens), I hunted only one year on that lease with a bow below 50#; it was a 45# Bear Grizzly. After that I began moving successively up; first to a 55# Colt bow, then a 60# Pearson longbow, followed by a 70# Bear Kodiak and then a 74# Pearson Mustang. Why did I move up in bow weight? Simply because almost everyone hunting around me was hunting with bows in those heavier draw weights. It was the ‘norm’. Bob Lee was using his 55# Red Wing Hunter, Fred Bear used a 65# Kodiak and Ben Person used a 75# Bushmaster. One older hunter (I think he was the oldest hunter on the lease, but I don’t remember his name) used a longbow pulling 100#; which my youthful eyes beheld with wonder, considering that he looked old and frail!. Not all (and in my experience, not even most) of those bowhunting years ago were hunting with bow’s drawing 40# or 45#.”

Ed

[Kegan]

#54585

I’m a young pup (18 ), so I’ve no experience on game, but I enjoy shooting heavier bows. I build my own longbows, and they normally pull between 70# and 85# at 29.5″. I started going heavy because I didn’t know about design, so I just made them heavier. I keep shooting them because I like them though, and because it does give me more confidence that if given an opportunity, I could put the arrow through an animal. I’m still learning alot about bow design and building, but the lightest I’d personally like to hunt with would be 65#. I’m milking being young for all it’s worth:wink:

And considering I’m pretty scrawny, it’s a nice little ego boost:lol:

[purehunter]

#11374

I’ll throw my 2 cents into the pot. I’m not a young pup, (43) but I just bought a 70# long bow with very mild r/d. At my draw length its about 66# pounds or so. I LOVE shooting it. Its slightly faster than my 50# recurve so you get the feeling of power.

I think there will be a mild upswing in heavier bows with younger archers getting into “traditional” archery. I agree with Dr. Ashby to use all the bow you can since it would be difficult to achieve over penetration with an arrow.

I like to warm up first with some excercises and get my shoulders/back loose, then I shoot a few arrows through my 50# recurve (keeps me up to speed on my recurve too), then I shoot my longbow. I can’t shoot it as many times as my recurve before I get tired but it works. I think when people initially try a “heavy” bow, it IS hard. But after you get warmed up, it doesn’t feel bad at all. I think a lot of archers would be surprised how easy a 65-70# bow feels after you practice if you don’t go into it “cold”.

Purehunter
“Hunt it, kill it, grill it!”

[Patrick]

#26654

I thought of this thread (and actually, a few others as well) while reading this article by Dean Torges, titled “Matching Bows To Arrows”. Relating to this thread, I thought the reference to a tendency for lighter bows decades ago is intriguing:

http://www.bowyersedge.com/arrows.html

It gives me the impression that, as with so many things…cycles.

[Author]

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