Hardwood shafts?

[Roger Norris]

#4567

I would like to hear from guys using hardwood shafts. I am looking for heavy, durable, STRAIGHT shafts. Hickory? Birch? Who makes finished arrows with hardwoods?

[David Petersen]

#31835

Roger — The problem with hardwoods is their weight, prohibiting meaningful FOC. Dr. Ashby, pre-carbon, was a fan of Foregewood, hickory, and laminated birch in that order. I began my adventures with arrow weight experiments after reading a summary of Ashby’s original Natal STudy in TBM many years ago. The result was that instantly I quit losing elk to poor penetration when I went from alum shafts and 125-grain multi-blade heads, total arrow weight about 550, to 750-grain compressed hickory shafts and two-blade heads. I shot completely through two elk with the same arrow and skimpy little 125-grain Wolverine two years in a row, then broke the head in half the following year when it hit a shoulder blade on a bull. I was still learning. These days, once I have 650 total arrow weight I shift focus to increasing FOC by increasing head weight. So today’s quest is for the lightest possible shaft with the stength to handle a very heavy head. Couple of days ago I killed a yearling cow with Sitka spruce shafts and a Tuffhead 300, total weight about 700 with FOC in the low 20s, not bad for a wood arrow. The shaft broke an inch behind the head but miraculously the heavy head traveled on like a bullet into the heart for a very quick kill. In sum, hardwood shafts are too heavy to give EFOC and for lighter bows just plain too heavy. So as much as I love these wood shafts, and man do they shoot beautifully, at least for elk I’m forced back to the carbon world where I can easily build 650+ arrows with EFOC. That’s not what you wanted to hear, I fear, but it is the honest experience of a fellow woody fan.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#31864

Roger,

I’m not sire who makes finished hardwood arrows, but if you can’t find an answer here I’ll bet someone on Tradgang would know. You may want to drop Don Thomas an email. I seem to remember him shooting through a water buffalo with an Ipe arrow a few years ago. He may remember where he bought them.

[Roger Norris]

#31888

Thanks guys. I am just not happy with the wieght and durability of my current batch of woodies (doug fir). I swap between carbons (I agree with you Dave) and aluminums with excellent results on game. But I do like the absolute dull silence of a wood arrow. I refuse, however to sacrifice weight and penetration to shoot wood.

Dave, do you think that breakage you encountered is a symptom of FOC not being appropriate for wood shafts? I have no data to prove that, just an observation to your instnce of it happening.

[David Petersen]

#32112

Roger, I’m afraid so, and if I understand Ed Ashby correctly, he feels the same. You can sure find heavy hardwood shafts, Forgewood, etc., but you won’t get good FOC with them. And the lighter wood shafts, alas, don’t seem to have what it takes to handle the tremendous impact force of a heavy head against bone, without breaking behind the head. So the choices seem to be: heavy hardwood with low FOC, lighter wood (on this hunt I used 23/64 Sitka spruce spined at 85# for a 53# longbow) with sleeves behind the head (Ed says as much as 7″ could be required, depending), or carbons. I’ve tried aluminum shafting for sleeves in the past and didn’t like the way they shoot or look. But I’m going to try it again since the Sitka’s are so lovely and shoot as if I were a good shot. I’ve also ordered two test shafts of Gold Tip Ultra Lites, .300 and .400, on Ed’s advice that it’s a great shaft for maxing EFOC. My intellect and ethics keep pushing me to carbons, but my heart will always be wood. If I were hunting deer sized animals only, I’d downsize the head weight so that a wood shaft could handle it, and let it go at that. I also need to do some more angled-impact testing to disprove that this was a flawed shaft. If I hadn’t hit bone I’d likely be thinking the setup was flawless. Good luck on your own search.

[Rogue]

#32379

Has anyone had experience with footed wood shafts? I know there are a few places that foot cedar with other hard woods. They seem to be a little on the expensive side but I am sure there is a lot of work involved in making them.

A hardwood up front seems like it would also increase FOC. Just not sure how much.

Bill

[David Petersen]

#32910

Rogue — I tried footed shafts early in my quest for an EFOC wood arrow, and you’re right that the heavier footings added very little weight up front. To the contrary, the shafts were so heavy that even normal FOC was nearly impossible. So, for a strong, heavy shaft that resists breaking behind the point, footing works great. For high FOC it’s counterproductive. I would be OK with that if I shot 70 pound bows that could move really heavy arrows at a decent speed, but I don’t. So my quest continues for the lightest possible arrow over 650 grains with max FOC. The Sitka spruce shafts offered graat hope with 85# spine and just 400 grains bare shafts, providing total arrow weight just over 700, good speed and trajectory, fantastic accuracy and 23%+ FOC. But the head weight and length (lever arm) apparently is too much for the shafts. So while I feel forced to return to carbons for my elk arrows, I’ll keep playing with woods, sleeves, etc. with unending hope.

[David Petersen]

#34423

Guys — I need to amend my above suggestion that I’m about to give up on wood shafts as elk arrows. Since this break involved just one arrow, the first of this set-up I’ve shot an elk with, I owe it another try since it’s entirely possible that the arrow was somehow predisposed to breaking via compression rings, maybe a tiny nick I hadn’t noticed. I shot all nine of them with field points several times before selecting what seemed the best shooters and installing broadheads for the hunt. I could have nicked the one that broke or otherwise somehow damaged it. At the least I’ll shoot the same set-up for Coues this winter for another, if comparatively modest, test. “Overkill” some might say at 700 grains, yes, but the shoot SO sweet and look just as sweet (thanks to Fletcher at The Feathered Shaft) that I just can’t give up on them based on a single “live testing.” Meanwhile I’ll continue playing with possible ways to strengthen the wood behind the head.

[Stephen Graf]

#35098

You beat me to it Dave. After reading your post on the breaking shaft, I thought about it for a day and was going to get on here and suggest that 1 data point is not enough to base a decision on (if only everybody knew and understood this important idea). I am glad you came to it yourself.

I have had more than 1 carbon arrow “sheered off” passing through a deer. So unexplained failure is not unique to wood…

Regarding whitetail deer hunting, and for what it’s worth, I found that a setup that resulted in less than 160 fps arrow velocity usually resulted in missed deer. I have found that keeping my shots under 20 yds and arrow velocity above 160 fps puts meat on the table. This observation was made while playing with efoc arrows as my grains per pound increased from 10 up to 12, 14,15, etc… I found if I got much above 12 gpp, my arrow speeds started getting too slow. I flat out missed 4 doe as they easily dodged my arrow.

Hasn’t happened since I adjusted my setup to allow greater speed. I know this is probably EFOC Heresy to suggest that arrow speed is important. But that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Good luck with those deer!

[Rogue]

#37069

This post got me to thinking,(wife says thats a scary thing). I haven’t shot wood since I was a little kid, and I am sure those cedar shafts were just cut offs of dads broken arrows. Anyway I got to looking on 3 Rivers site and found a jig for internal footing wood arrows. Has anyone tried this? How did it work?

From what I can tell the center of the shaft is drilled with a 1/8″ drill bit and then you can add either steel or brass rod to the shaft for weight and strength.

Just curious.

Bill

[David Petersen]

#37116

Rogue — if you’re talking about the steel tube that you slip down over the shaft and use to guide the bit down the center of the shaft — I don’t recall where I bought mine, brand or whatever, but it was a disappointing failure. Just not enough length of steel on top to hold a bit perfectly aligned as you drill. Of several attempts, I didn’t get a single perfectly center-aligned hole. All wandered this way or that and some broke out of the shaft side. I understand there are commercial jigs used with a drill press that do it right, but this little hand tool just doesn’t get it done, not once in a dozen tries in my experience. But then maybe I just don’t have “the technique.”

[gigglemonk]

#37345

Anyone tried bamboo arrows for HFOC? Im tuning a few right now coming in between 600 and 625 grains with 17% – 20% FOC TH field points.

[David Petersen]

#37805

Giggle — what spine at what length for these shafts? What weight head for that FOC?

[gigglemonk]

#37905

I’m using the 225 tuffhead field point. Three are shooting well at 31 7/8 and 70#. My bow is 51# and my draw is 29.5″.

Out at 20 yards they were about 2 inches nock high bare shaft. I fletched one and at 20 yards it looks dead on. Haven’t paper tuned yet.

According to the DSC this is too light of a spine but they are flying very well. Self nocks, no foreshafts.

[skifrk]

#37940

I was thinking about Dave’s broke arrow myself and being the engineer I ma came up with a couple of ideas to solve that based on what we see for a spears tip which while long also has metal collar extending down the shaft more to hold in place now to get a welder and few tuffheads to try this idea.

[David Petersen]

#38048

For those of you experienced with Smooth-On epoxy adhesive — I’m wondering about dipping shafts to a depth of 4″ behind the head. It would add a bit of weight but not much, but I’m wondering if it would be strong enough to keep the shaft from breaking at this stress point? One way to find out, I guess, about weight, looks, etc. A lot harder to design meaningful tests.

The problem with steel collars, like you see on some spears and original bodkins, etc.–aside from the cost of having them welded up–is weight. YOu’d have to drop back on head weight to compensate, and then you lose blade thickness which equates to strength and on single-bevels to shelf width thus torque. Nothing is simple in this “simple” sport.

[Stephen Graf]

#38909

David Petersen wrote: For those of you experienced with Smooth-On epoxy adhesive — I’m wondering about dipping shafts to a depth of 4″ behind the head. It would add a bit of weight but not much, but I’m wondering if it would be strong enough to keep the shaft from breaking at this stress point?

I doubt it. If you got it thick enough maybe, but a thin coat not likely. Of all the things I’ve heard people try, putting an aluminum collar over the shaft seems like the best method.

Anything but a footed shaft seems to sully the noble wood arrow imho. It is what it is, and any attempt to make it other than it is, seems counter productive to me. Lipstick on a pig I think is the popular phrase these days.

Just my opinion.

[David Petersen]

#39110

Steve — I fully agree and that’s a primary reason I haven’t been happy with my previous adventures in using aluminum shafting for external footing — it just ruins the whole aesthetics of shooting woods. Which kind of brings us full circle to the increasingly undeniable reality that those of us who hunt really big, tough animals like elk and moose can either continue using our old-favorite gear and set-ups and hope for the best (and I am yet to meet or even hear of a bowhunter who can consistently shoot between the ribs or tuck one in tight for a heart shot and not occasionally hit a bone) … or we can prepare for heavy bone hits, broadheads skipping on bone, etc. with the strongest arrows and broadheads available. I may be to the point of hunting elk with carbons henceforth while using woods for deer etc. But at least more of us are thinking without blinders on and talking openly about these things rather than bunkering-down in defense of our personal old favorites. Obviously, I have too much time on my hands this morning. I’d best go wash the dishes. 😛

[William Warren]

#39206

Aluminum footings seem to work great on my carbons that I use for small game or stumping but no matter the shaft material the reality is that it only moves the breaking point back the distance of the length of the footing as installed.

Back to Hickory shafts. I have some 5/16″ hickories that just keep on shooting. They must be 10 – 15 years old, but they would be spined too light for what Dave hunts and 11/32’s would probably be too heavy as mentioned. What if you took some 11/32’s and made up some tapered shafts? 11/32 on the business end and 5/16″ on the nock end? Anybody ever try that?

[Jason Wesbrock]

#39415

Duncan,

I used to taper POC shafts like that years ago. It looked nice, but I don’t think it did much of anything in terms of increasing performance.

[David Petersen]

#39425

I have aluminum shafts to fit 11/32. Does anyone know what size, if any, fits snugly over 23/64?

On moving the breaking point back … yes, you are likely correct and I’ve talked to arrowsmiths who make footed shafts and they say the same thing. And here is where we could use Ed Ashby or Todd or another of our mathmeticians and engineers (Dunc?) — since the stress translated by the head, say from a glancing heavy bone strike, is spread along say 4″ of external sleeve on an aluminum-sleeved shaft, would it not be notably less at the back of the sleeve than it is right behind the head on a standard wood shaft?

Meanwhile, I went ahead and coated three expendable shafts with Smooth-On for a length of 4″ behind the head. We’ll see if we can break them, and where.

And one more idea I’d appreciate your feedback on: I have on several occasions successfully repaired cracked selfbows by wrapping the area tightly with heavy thread then coating it with glue or Smooth-On. I think it’s worth a try on arrows, but that’s a lot of wrapping to get it back 4″. Still, if it worked, it’s a heck of a lot more traditional looking than an alum sleeve.

[William Warren]

#39603

David Petersen wrote: I have aluminum shafts to fit 11/32. Does anyone know what size, if any, fits snugly over 23/64?

On moving the breaking point back … yes, you are likely correct and I’ve talked to arrowsmiths who make footed shafts and they say the same thing. And here is where we could use Ed Ashby or Todd or another of our mathmeticians and engineers (Dunc?) — since the stress translated by the head, say from a glancing heavy bone strike, is spread along say 4″ of external sleeve on an aluminum-sleeved shaft, would it not be notably less at the back of the sleeve than it is right behind the head on a standard wood shaft?

Meanwhile, I went ahead and coated three expendable shafts with Smooth-On for a length of 4″ behind the head. We’ll see if we can break them, and where.

And one more idea I’d appreciate your feedback on: I have on several occasions successfully repaired cracked selfbows by wrapping the area tightly with heavy thread then coating it with glue or Smooth-On. I think it’s worth a try on arrows, but that’s a lot of wrapping to get it back 4″. Still, if it worked, it’s a heck of a lot more traditional looking than an alum sleeve.

Dave,

You may have hit on something. What you are describing is similar to rod winding which can and does strengthen a graphite or fiberglass rod, holds guides in place and can be done decoratively, and I’m thinking you could use a cresting tool to turn the shaft slowly while applying rod winding epoxy which is specially formulated for this purpose and will set clear and very smooth and uniform when turned slowly. I’ve repaired chipped rods this way. One was served with rod winding over the chip and sealed with clear fingernail polish. Been using it for years like that. I think it is worth a try.

Duncan

[William Warren]

#39618

Dave,

Not an engineer or a mathemetician but I do have 33 years experience working with steel and plastic pipe of various size and thickness. Pipe and tubing are subject to shear stresses. Design specs dictate how much shear it can withstand. Likewise, maximum bend radius before collapse depends on wall thickness, material type, etc. I’m sure all of this comes into play with tubular arrow shafting when subjected to the unlimited scenarios we hunters and stump shooters can put them through. But I’m not the brain that can calculate it 😀

Duncan

[Stephen Graf]

#40243

I like the idea of wrapping the shaft! It would be tough to prove how it might hold up. But I sure would like to hear how it goes.

[David Petersen]

#40397

Icoated three shafts yesterday with Smooth-On, which is a clear, viscous epoxy adhesive, from back of head 4″ down the shaft. By using blue take around head bevel and at the stopping point on the shafts, it came out nice and neat and some 64th” thick. I hope that’s enough to provide significant reinforcement against breakage. I plan to let them cure a good long time before using. The point is, this isn’t just a “finish,” but a significant layer of epoxy that’s thicker than aluminum shafting. We shall see …

Meanwhile I will definitely wrap some shafts with synthetic sinew dipped in Smooth-on. If nothing else the thread should act as a splint so that if a shaft breaks on impact at least it should hold together so that the head portion in front of the break will still receive at least some of the momentum of the shaft behind the break. Either method–Smooth-On or sinew wrap–sits OK with my sense of aesthetics since the sinew/thread is traditional, way traditional, and the Smooth-On is invisible. If the additional weight up front is significat I can compensate by dropping back from 300 to 225 head weights, as both (Tuffheads) have identical dimensions except thickness.

But all such will have to wait my return from Arkansas for a week of hunting what to me is “exotic” big game — whitetails. 😀

[skifrk]

#40475

Dave good luck on the exotic big game. Also I think both ideas would hold the head well and mimic breaks look at the most current TBM where Billy Berger does his tests on bird points and notice he has no breakage of head with sinew attached to shaft.

[jpcarlson]

#43267

I like the ideas here about “serving” the shaft directly behind the head! I have served graphite fly rod blanks while applying guides, but never thought of that application for UEFOC arrows! I am shooting 32% FOC on carbons and already am having problems on pass throughs hitting something hard and splintering the shaft directly behind the head. I too will give it a try!

Jans

[Stephen Graf]

#43671

I wonder if your artificial sinew is the kind with wax on it. If so, that will interfere with it bonding to the epoxy.

[Dan Sweeney]

#61813

Dave,

One other data point for your wood-FOC-breakage consideration: early this season I shot one of our little arKansas whitetail does with a Sitka Spruce 50-55 spine and a 200 grain Grizzly out of my home made ERC selfbow. Hit it just slightly forward…and watched my shaft break right behind the head. She was essentially unharmed, although I was pretty sick with myself. First time I’ve had anything but perfect results using the moderately heavy heads and SS.

Since then, I have shot an 8 point and a nice doe with the same set up, and it looked like I threw a hatchet through them. Short, copious blood trail and quick clean recovery. I’m still undecided due to that one break. But, I have also decided that I might have damaged that shaft at some point and will keep shooting them as is for the time being.

[David Petersen]

#62370

Steve — Once again you’ve thought of something I had not, thanks. What sort of serving would you recommend, and what sort of sealant, epoxy or otherwise? I’m currently shopping for a source to get more SS shafts in the low weight and high spine I need, then will start trying to break them while testing various reinforcements.

Dan — I too suspect I had invisibly nicked or somehow damaged the shaft that broke, during practice. Already I’ve switched gears to identify my hunting shafts and after a test shot or two putting them aside and not practicing with them. That should cure that problem. But reinforcement is still in order I think.

[handirifle]

#62546

Thought I might chime in here, with all my VAST EFOC experience :D:wink:, anyway, here goes.

First on the drilling out the center of wood arrows, I did it with one of mine, on my small lathe. I drilled it 1/8″ wide and 4″ deep, I think, don’t remember for sure. I used a section of thread rod, and also screwed it into the back of a tapered insert, with the shaft cut off.

Tomorrow sometime, I will weigh it before and after, but I don’t think it made a huge difference. But the point was it is doable, but only with a lathe.

Also as for the wrapping of the front of the shaft with epoxy, how about a single layer of fiberglass cloth, then coated with epoxy. This will add weight, strength, AND keep flexibility, which will be vital on a hard impact with bone. It’s the non-flexibility that will snap an arrow. Using alum or steel will simply move the snapping point back a few inches.

With the fiberglass overlay, you could also paint it to closer resemble a wood arrow with a painted footing.

[handirifle]

#8081

OK I did some weighing today. The arrow is a feather fletched cedar, and I HAVE NOT shot this arrow for tuning with these weights I will quote, but am just putting the numbers out there to compare.

The wood arrow with a 125gr glue on point weighed in at 474gr. I actually MEASURED the steel insert I made up, it was 2.5″ long, not the 3 or 4 I thought. With an aluminum adapter on it, and it weighed 103gr. When the alum adapter was changed to a steel one, the weight came up to 177. Remember the shank of the adapter is cut off and the adapter drilled out and tapped for 8-32 threads. I used 1/8 thread rod so solid rod would most likely bring the weight to 180 or 185gr, but will go with what I have.

Total weight, with no head on it, now comes to 528gr.

Figuring one might glue on something like a 225gr Tuffhead, I added an additional 225gr point to the front. and this brought the total to 754, now we’re getting somewhere. The shaft is 28.5″ to back of head, so with center point being 14 1/4, the actual balance point is 7.25″ forward of the center point, for and FOC of 25.44%. Now if you wrapped it in a fiberglass footing, and coated that in resin, I imagine it would tip the scale over 800gr, and ought to be darn tough, for a wood arrow.

Anyway, that’s food for thought, since you were wondering about an insert inside a wood arrow for strength, hope this helps.

[Forresterwoods]

#26879

I’ve been experimenting with different hardwood shafts. Me and a friend both shoot 60 lb longbow and recurve…and so far the eastern maple (quarter sawn) has done well. A 5/16 shaft 450 grains and spined 50-55 lbs flys perfect. (That’s with 125 gr point). With heavier heads, 11/32 maple 550 gr 70 lb spine. Or Leopardwood 5/16 650 gr and 70 lb spine…or in 11/32 700 gr spines to 100 lbs. I’m currently working on and southeast asian hardwood…5/16 550 gr and 73 lb spine. (No need for tapered wood or weights as these shafts straighten out VERY quickly).

Kevin

[akbowbender]

#27911

I bought some ash shafts from Alleganey Arrow Woods. The shafts weighed 560-580 gns. They were fairly straight from the beginning, and not hard to get straight with hand straightening. I checked them all through the build process, and they have remained straight.They took a stain nicely.

Ash makes a really nice, heavy arrow. I made them for moose hunting, but I haven’t had a chance to try them out yet. Maybe next year.

It seems like some folks won’t use them because they can’t get an appreciable amount of FOC with them. FOC is icing on the cake for getting max. penetration. Tuned up properly, you’ll get plenty of penetration with all the momentum of a heavy ash shaft

[Stephen Graf]

#28635

David Petersen wrote: Steve — Once again you’ve thought of something I had not, thanks. What sort of serving would you recommend, and what sort of sealant, epoxy or otherwise?

Dave, just saw this thread again… I don’t have any idea’s except maybe using the thread that is used to affix the eye’s to fly rods (as Duncan Suggested). A call to a fly fishing store should get you the epoxy and the thread you will need. – I really think you are onto something here with wrapping the end of the shaft and epoxying it.

[David Petersen]

#28790

Steve (and anyone else interested in “footing” wood shafts) — I’ve been making arrows and shooting a new bow and haven’t gotten around to the wrap-on footing project yet, but have decided to try using string-serving thread, since I have a roll of it in green. I’ll likely coat it with the thinnest possible layer of SmoothOn.

Meanwhile I have done a lot of “testing” of Sitka spruce shafts I “painted” with SmoothOn to 4″ below the head — in fact I smeared it on with a popsickle stick and it smoothed itself out nicely, as the name implies. I wrapped masking tape at the point on the shaft I wanted the treatment to stop, and also to protect the point bevel. And the results? So far I can’t break these arrows! Using 175-grain Ace blunts (heaviest I have on hand) I’ve taken countless shots at stumps and trees of every variety from every angle. Some of these trees are fire-hardened so that the arrows bounce back almost to me. This would definitely ram the point and insert into a carbon shaft and splinter it (I know from experience). But not only didn’t the heads break off these test woodies (which is the whole point, to protect against shaft breakage), but the hard impact failed to smash the glue-on heads down onto the shaft. I think the thin layer of SmoothOn right behind the point is acting like a “support collar” to absorb the shock. Short of shooting one into a rock wall, which couldn’t be a whole lot harder than the burned trees that bounce arrows, I don’t know if I can break one of these guys. Near as I can tell with calipers, the coating is about 1/32″ thick. While I have no way to measure spine here, flight characteristics are unchanged. While the coating is getting a bit cloudy with curing and use, it is still basically see-through invisible so doesn’t spoil the looks of the arrows. It should work with any wood shaft.

One thing I failed to do was measure shaft weight and FOC before and after applying the coating. I’ll do that next time. So far so good and I now feel safe to shoot another elk with wood shafts and heavy heads and not worry about breakage behind the head, like happened this year.

[archer38]

#29325

David Petersen wrote: I have aluminum shafts to fit 11/32. Does anyone know what size, if any, fits snugly over 23/64?

On moving the breaking point back … yes, you are likely correct and I’ve talked to arrowsmiths who make footed shafts and they say the same thing. And here is where we could use Ed Ashby or Todd or another of our mathmeticians and engineers (Dunc?) — since the stress translated by the head, say from a glancing heavy bone strike, is spread along say 4″ of external sleeve on an aluminum-sleeved shaft, would it not be notably less at the back of the sleeve than it is right behind the head on a standard wood shaft?

Meanwhile, I went ahead and coated three expendable shafts with Smooth-On for a length of 4″ behind the head. We’ll see if we can break them, and where.

And one more idea I’d appreciate your feedback on: I have on several occasions successfully repaired cracked selfbows by wrapping the area tightly with heavy thread then coating it with glue or Smooth-On. I think it’s worth a try on arrows, but that’s a lot of wrapping to get it back 4″. Still, if it worked, it’s a heck of a lot more traditional looking than an alum sleeve.

I was going to suggest this David. I know a guy who uses fiber mesh drywall tape as a backing for home made bow limbs. He sets it with tight bond glue. I think it might be worth a try on an arrow shaft. It is basically fiber glass mesh so I can’t see why it wouldn’t work well with the right glue or epoxy resin.

[Stephen Graf]

#29690

Dave – I would not have thought just a coat of smooth-on would produce such impressive results. But using the green nylon serving is a good idea too. If the smooth-on alone works so well, the serving can only be better.

Even though you are getting such good results, I just can’t help but think that eventually the smooth-on will crack and let you down without the wrap…

[Forresterwoods]

#11832

I have some extremely durable shafts right now. The toughest is Leopardwood..At 5/16 it’s 72 lb spine, 650 grains..and I have NEVER broken one. Kevin Forrester

[Author]

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