Greed…the difference between rifle and bow hunters

[skip.jacobs1]

#7132

I apologize if this is a lengthy conversation but I’d like other peoples opinion.

A lot of talk is generated about why people bowhunt vs. rifle hunt. I recent experience has prompted me to believe that much of it has to do with greed.

I deer hunt on a lease area with 8 other people and although there are no designated zones and anyone is allowed to hunt wherever they want, typically if someone sets up a stand or “claims” an area everyone else stays at least 500 yards from it. Not to hard to accomplish with 900 acres to choose from. Naturally I get a lot of criticism because I’m a bowhunter and most people make fun of me because I’ve yet to harvest anything this year while the rifle hunters have already harvested 2-5 deer.

For several weeks I have been working a massive GA 8 point inching my stand ever closer to where I’ve been seeing him. This weekend I was planning on sealing the deal with a 20 yard shot but unfortunately I’ve been telling the guys about it and one of the rifle hunters decided (I suppose) that I was taking too long and when into my area and killed my buck, his 5th deer of the season.

Although I don’t let things like that bother me, it made me think about why we bow hunt and I suspect it has little to do with quantity of game harvested. Rifle hunting is obviously easier and much more productive, and if I were hunting to sustain the dietary needs of my family I would probably pick up a rifle. While I don’t think it applies to every rifle hunter I think a lot of it has to do with greed. For many the hunt is only successful if game is harvested. We bow hunters know that success is measured in different manners like the skill with our equipment, our ability to close the distance on game, and subscribing to challenges that others are willing to adhere to, etc.

Anyway just wondering what other people think about this?

[Don Thomas]

#58514

My take my surprise some people, since I haven’t hunted with a rifle in ages and wouldn’t shoot a world record deer with a rifle if it stepped out in front of me. But I think you’ve drawn the wrong conclusion from a bad situation. The fact is that there are plenty of bowhunters–even, yes, traditional bowhunters–who might have done the same thing. Unfortunately, bowhunting, more than any other element of outdoor sport, lends itself to bad judgement based on greed and egotism. We all know examples of once honorable bowhunters lured to the Dark Side by the promise of fortune and fame. From there it’s a slippery slope to compromises both ethical and legal. Meanwhile, involvement with groups such as Backcountry Hunters and Anglers has reminded me that a lot of hunters who share the same core values that I hold choose, for whatever reason, to hunt with firearms. Sure, what happened to you was rotten, but I wouldn’t generalize the experience to all hunters who carry firearms. Buying a longbow does not automatically make you an ethical hunter or a sportsman. My two bits worth and nothing more… Cheers, Don

[Konrad]

#58626

Five deer…I think you had either start looking for another group or start hunting earlier, alone.

If a fellow will take five deer in one season (by any means), I would be concerned for my safety were I in the woods with him!

It is difficult not to get a bitter taste in one’s mouth from a bad hunting situation. I once had a poor experience with a group of dove hunters on the opening day of archery season. This was after six months of research, scouting and planning. Bozos are in every state and county.

Keep your chin up.

[rayborbon]

#58688

You should not have told him about your deer.

None of my hunting partners would have done that to me anyway and I would tell them. If I didn’t trust them I would not tell them.

I don’t think greed is in the weapon as much as it is in the man.

[Rogue]

#58703

I will agree with all above, what happened to you was a matter of personal ethics rather than weapon choice.

Who ever this guy is in my opinion violated an unspoken rule in your lease agreement and should suffer some ridicule one way or another.

All this being said I must also take issue with your statement of “my deer”. Until the tag is punched and backstraps are frying in your pan that deer belongs to the ground he trods on.(the respective state may disagree with that last statement.)

[Hiram]

#58779

The guy is a jerk and just acted on the hunting talk he overheard. It might be greed in his case but to form a general view of gunhunters based on this experience would be unbalanced and unfair. I would talk to the guys about this and have the guy kicked off the lease next year. Another reason why I hunt alone. I would love to have a good hunting partner but they are hard to come by and when found should be maintained by sharing the hunt and the work. Maybe someday you will find this, maybe not. I am past it, and enjoy being away from the Jerks.

[lssa]

#59093

i know people around here that take 10 to 20 deer with bow and firearms and would do the same thing to others hunters not caring if they had taken a deer yet or not

[Chris Shelton]

#59120

I can relate to this. Last year we had five guys in deer camp during rifle season. I was the only one hunting with a traditional bow, my best freind didnt have arrows for his, but he had arrows for his compound and that is what he was using, the other three were using rifles. Another good buddy of mine was using a 300, my father was using a 30-30, and another older buddy was using a 30-06. When I say older, he was older than me, 27ish, but younger than dad.

I had been chasing a great buck for the entire season, only getting veiws of him at 40+ yards, the opening day of rifle season I had a 30 yard shot at him, and missed.

I told the guys about it, and my two close freinds knew that area was off limits, they really didnt care, they both had properties to hunt back home, they just came along for the experience. But that next hunting day the older freind, came to the trail head with me, I looked at him and said your not going to my area are you? He assured me, no way. I went up my ridge and he continued down the trail, I was about half way up the ridge when I see orange coming up the mountain. Sure enough it was him. So I guess he is going to hunt my area? I was ticked at first, but really didnt care, this ridge is not where the deer is, the ridge is just the way to get there. So I met up with him. Talked for a second, asked basically what are you doing here? He said he didnt realize this was the same ridge, which this was his first time out with us, and he probably didnt actually know. But no the less he was here, my deer was still in the area. Turns out the guy on top of the ridge shot him after I missed that opening day! That is the problem with hunting public land. I was very sad, not going to lie, but I got over it fast, lol.

This year I have done it again, found another great buck. Suppose I am just lucky? Because noone else has found a buck even close! But the area I have choosen this year is very close to dads, I told him that I wouldnt mind if he shot him, like someone up above has said, it is not my deer. So this rifle season, we are going to be hunting the deer, either way it will be meat in the freezer. So I am okay with it. I know he will not follow me or hunt my exact spot but if I run the deer to him, he will definatly shoot!! So it should be interesting.

With the case last year, it was his greed, it was a bigger buck than he has even ever seen, with dads case it is just like me, he would love to get a crack at that deer. But in your case, that is cruel, I think saying it is greed may not be the case, but you could say it is inpatients, because they just think we take to long. Anyway, best of luck, hope you can find another one!!

[William Warren]

#59222

Yeah, that guy is a jerk! Exactly the reason I don’t tell anyone where my stands are (except my wife) or what I have been seeing at those stands. If you tell them about a nice buck to be part of the conversation you are playing into their hands. Better to tell a little white lie and let them think you are not much of a hunter. I don’t even want anyone to see me enter the woods and I take pains to keep my vehicle out of sight, for obvious reasons, and leave no trace if you know what I mean. People will do anything to get a nice buck including hunting your stand when you are not there. In NC Game Land is first come first served so I can’t say much but I can remove my stand which I have done on at least one occasion. The encroacher just laughed it off but he left and I took my stand somewhere else. I also ceased to post pictures or hang out at the local hangouts because that is where the questioning begins and they know how to squeeze you for info. The most successful hunters I know won’t hang out regularly at the local store because of all the talk. I’m like Hiram, I have hunted alone for years but the downside is now that I’m older, I don’t have any help with the dragging. I did have a very tight circle of friends that mostly hunted the same way and we would call each other for help but they have all but stopped hunting. I know this sounds sort of extreme but you just can’t trust everyone anymore.

[tazimna]

#59286

I personally don’t gun hunt, but have no issues with those that do. But I disagree that “gunhunters” are the only greedy ones out there. MANY bowhunters fall into that same category, whether they’ll admit or not is a different thing. In my opinion, it’s sad to see what the act of hunting has become. For many folks, the need for instant gratification rules the day,and this how they conduct their hunts. The damage that hunting shows and ‘trophy” hunters have done to this fine hobby, makes me wonder why even use the term “hunt”, when in reality it’s nothing more than “kill”. Tazimna

[Chris Shelton]

#59411

snuffornot wrote: In NC Game Land is first come first served

can you guys hang stands on public property?

[David Petersen]

#59595

If I had to pay for a lease to hunt, and worse yet share it with strangers … I wouldn’t. Much better to save the money for a real hunting adventure, if only once week a year, on big wild public lands somewhere in the West, where if you’re willing to walk a ways you can hunt forever and rarely encounter another hunter (so long as you get as far as possible away from ATV trails, which are magnets to the easy-access crowds). And I’ve never hunted in a state where rifle and archery deer seasons overlap and didn’t know it existed anywhere. Shucks, and industry wants us to believe we desperately need more hunters? Not where I hunt!:twisted: dave

[skip.jacobs1]

#59638

Well I guess now that I’ve calmed down a little about the situation, I probably shouldn’t have made such a broad statement. I guess the point I was trying to get across is that its pretty cool to me that bowhunters “handicap” themselves by utilizing equipment that limits their range over gun hunters and in my opinion makes you become a better hunter to be more successful. Appreciate the comments.

And for Dave, most of the states I have hunted in in the South (TN, GA, AL) allow you to use Archery Tackle during gun and muzzleloader seasons. I didn’t know that you couldn’t do that out west.

[William Warren]

#59696

Greatreearcher wrote: [quote=snuffornot] In NC Game Land is first come first served

can you guys hang stands on public property?

Yes. You can hang stands but they have to be removed at the end of the season. Brush blinds are allowed too but the laws say they become public property once you build them and anyone can occupy them. First come, first seved.

[crittergitter]

#59974

i have mentioned on many other posts that i mostly gun hunt and bow practice.see for many people especially in the north they have come to tkink that huntig is just for the experience,that the kill is only a small part of it.true hunters know better,and the idea that hunters go through cycles it is truly proposterous.whate do you think the native americans would have thaught of such ideas 150 years ago.i have met many greedy people but the worst has always been the sad sap that calls a warden on another.my dad always said it now i do as well the guy who calls on a person for shooting doves or shooting a cottontail in the spotlight is greedy and to lasy to do it themselves.you must understand however in louisiana things are extremely differrent.the vast majority of true cajuns the ones who still mostly live off the land my family included do not listen to laws we hunt as we see fit and kill what and only what we need.that is many things.summer time finds us catching sackalay all day and frogging all night a good night well get 150 or so.september 1 means doves sept 18 means teal,october means squirrell and rabbit,november means regular duck season.we in louisiana are verry fond of traditions for 4 generations of my family have hunted grobec and beacraush sadly one generation ago one was outlawed the other is a federal bird and has never been legal to hunt.if you would like a translation as to whate those birds are called in english just ask.

[Chris Shelton]

#60559

snuffornot wrote: Yes. You can hang stands but they have to be removed at the end of the season. Brush blinds are allowed too but the laws say they become public property once you build them and anyone can occupy them. First come, first seved.

So basically if someone is in your stand, there is nothing you can do about it? That is kinda weird!? Here in Maryland, you can hang any stand, but you have to remove it at the end of the day! So that basically means climbers. That law is only for public land! I have found perminant ones before. But they are not suppose to be there. Anything you build out of natural stuff is okay, that is on the ground!

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