God's Dog…

[SteveMcD]

#6186

Well.. depending upon which part of the country you’re from, this is likely to have different reactions and opinions.

While I was in my hunting spot (grounblind) on a ridgetop shortly after sunrise this morning. Here comes a coyote trotting up the trail. This is an eastern coyote, he is beautiful, almost wolf-like in appearance, gray-white coat, masked face, and piercing green eyes. He us big! Considering the many I have seen over the years, as big, if not a little bigger than a german shepard. For the record, many biologist agree, the eastern coyote is more closely related to the Algonquin Timber Wolf than the western coyote, in genetics, appearance and habits. They are much larger than their western cousin, look more wolf-life than coyote, and hunt in packs like the wolf. This one comes up trotting at a fast walk gait, mouth open, pearly whites showing just like a happy dog! My hand automatically, begins to pull on the draw string, but heart pulls on my conscience, I only kill what I am willing to put on the table. So I watch and enjoy the experience. I greatly admire the coyote, often persecuted, but to me this is a sport, to the coyote, it is a matter of life or starvation. To the American Indian, he is God’s Dog. I am grateful for the experience.

[David Petersen]

#48523

Steve — You’ve really hit on a “heart spot” for me with this! No need to demonize those who choose to hunt predators; that’s not the point here. The point is that I’m not alone in feeling a strong hunter’s bond with fellow predators. Too late in the evening now and I’m too tired to tell it in a way to give its due, but we’ve had an amazing relationship here in rural CO with coyotes over the years, from them pretending to want to play with our dogs and trying thus to lure them into the woods where the rest of the family awaits (a coyote “pack” is almost always a mother and young adult pups)in ambush for dinner. Can’t blame ’em either! That never worked, and this past summer we’ve had “Lonely,” who began as aggressive to my small wife and our dogs (one Golden, one half that size) on their morning walks and I determined he must be rabid and figured I had to kill him. But I wasn’t very enthusiastic about it and he was smart enough to stay hidden when I came around with the .22. Within a couple of weeks of every-morning encounters Lonely had become as close to a pet as we want wild animals to be. He’d come out and play tail chase with the dogs and bark like a dog but keep a cautious distance from my wife. Some morning he was waiting for them at the top of our drive. When he disappeared a month or so ago, we all were heartbroken, esp. the dogs.

But all of that aside and to each his own, it really gives me a boost when hunters reach a point of maturity and self-restraint that they can sit back, let the bow down, and enjoy the experience for what it is. There is no argument here with those who feel differently and I won’t go there as it’s pointless. This is how I see it and have long been convinced the long-term rewards to us are greater this way. Sure, there are situations that differ. We’re talking the rule with predators, not the exceptions. I flat-out admire them and don’t at all begrudge their fair share of the game. A coyote, after all, can’t just stop off for a pizza on the way home. More power to you, brother Steve. dave

[William Warren]

#48590

Steve,
I also operate under the rule that if I can’t or won’t eat it
I don’t shoot it. I would have let him walk too. I’m the same way about crows. Crows are much more social than people realize. I’ve enjoyed watching them raise their young around my place. I know alot of folks like to hunt crows and other “varmints” and thats fine, I just don’t care for it. There still seems to be plenty of them.
Happy hunting,
Duncan

[Rocks]

#48624

Some good points, guys, and I respect your opinions. I am one of those that occasionally hunts animals not destined for the table. As a former trapper, I have killed many furbearers for their hides. I still will shoot coyotes and wolves. Not every coyote, but every wolf if I have the chance. The reason being is that the wolf population in my area is robust, and due to a number of factors, wolves being one of them, the ungulate populations are dwindling in areas I hunt. I make a few bucks from the hide, and help out the prey populations. I will not frown on those who don’t though, and expect not to be frowned upon for doing so.

I grew up on the farm and coyote control was a part of life, as they like newborn calves. My dad still shoots every one he can, but they still get the odd calf.

Cool story Steve, I enjoyed it, and glad you took a pass. That was a good experience.

[Brad]

#49098

Cool story, Steve, and I love the “God’s dog” reference. I had never heard that before. I have always loved seeing coyotes. They’re amazingly adaptive animals, worthy of a bit more admiration than people give them. Where I live in the midwest they’re the biggest, and one of the few predators that we have, and as such they have always been a symbol of wildness for me.

[Patrick]

#49420

Interesting ancestoral info. I never heard that.

Where I hunt/live, I wish we had more coyotes. I’ve also had a chance to take them, but declined. There’s just not enough around for my liking, and I love to watch them “pouncing for mice”.

[Jesse Minish]

#49438

Cool story. We have a lot where I live and I will try and take them any chance I can with my bow. I love trying to predator call them in. I have got a few with my bow but man they are smart and hard to get. They are one of my favorite things to chase.

[Steertalker]

#50303

Steve,

Glad to see that there are others like me that have compassion and respect for predators. They have a hard enough life without us tormenting them. Here, in Texas, they are treated mercilessly. That really saddens me sometimes:(

Brett

[Chris Shelton]

#50358

there are not many of them around here! Kind of a bitter sweet type thing, I wouldnt mind having a coyote fur, but I dont like the idea of killing something for its fur, I am borderline trapper! I trapped last year, just coons and groundhogs, and want to get into it, but I dont know what one is to do with all that meat? That is why I havent really done it yet! Like I have said in other posts, my great uncles in canada trapped, the one bought a 20 by 60 mile lifetime trapping lease in the yukon, and it was a amazing stretch of land. Wish I could have wondered on it some, he died a month before I was to go and visit with him, still went up north to help settle the estate(lots of stuff needed to be moved). It was a trapping lease, and he died so the lease was to be sold, we had to clear the property. He lived in a 20 by 20 shack, not because he had to but because he wanted to, ran the stream through the house, wood stove, him and his dog.

I shoot groundhogs any chance I get, with any equipment, they do serious damage, some people eat them, but I will not. I do it because the land owners that let me hunt during squirrel and rabbit season ask me too, same with the farmer that lets me trap them. I will say that if there are coyotes in the area, we can tell, the rabbits go down in number darastically. But when the crops are cut and the leaves drop, it is really not the coyotes that are totally responsible, it is the raptors!

[SteveMcD]

#51316

Dave… thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts on this as well. This really goes back to the article you wrote in the Campfire Philosopher a while back regarding ethics. As hunters and sportsman and women we are all guided by are values. To me, those values are strongly influenced by our personal spiritual beliefs and psychological emotions built upon years of upbringing and experiences.

I too do not berate or feel differently about predator control, it has it’s place in the overall scheme of things. Just not with me. To paraphrase, Gene Wensel in Primal Dreams, man no longer has a need to hunt, but hunt we must…. the bottom line though is “Man has a conscience”. And a responsibility.

To everyone who commented. Great feedback. It is interesting as Traditionalists. We mostly share those some values to one extent or another.

[tinybowhunter]

#52744

I agree with others here that it doesn’t matter which side of the coin your on, it’s useless to debate it. Here in N. MI. there is a hefty population of yotes that have affected both big and small game numbers over the last couple years.
Which side of the coin am I on? I shoot every one I see with bow or gun.

[Hiram]

#52911

I kill Coyotes! Sorry, its Gods Deer, Elk, etc. They kill Turkeys, so do Bobcats. I kill Bobcats too. I may not be very popular on this one. Ha

[Bill Kissner]

#55138

When I was a kid in the fifties, we had no deer and coyotes but plenty rabbits and quail. The coyotes arrived in the 60’s when the deer population reached huntable numbers. Between them and the red tailed hawks the rabbit population has went to almost nothing. It is so bad when their beagles finally find a rabbit, the hunters will not kill the rabbit because they want some left for their dogs to run.

I will shoot any coyote that comes in my range. Having said that, I have only been able to kill two with a bow and none with a gun. I do not actively hunt them but will surely fling an arrow at one if he gets close enough.

[aeronut]

#55318

I have read that the indians referred to them as ‘Song Dog’ and brother coyote.

Around here there was three groups of guys that hunted coyotes with dogs. One bunch just chased and seldom shot any and the others shot every one they could. A lot of coyotes were shot every weekend and quail and rabbit numbers were high in this area then.

Because of fuel costs there hasn’t been any hunts like that for several years and the coyote numbers are sky high. It is a rare occasion to see or hear any quail around here now.

I have seen first hand what coyotes can and will do to a newborn calf and a cow that is in labor. I personally will shoot at every one I see but hold no misgivings at all for others who don’t.

I listen to their singing every night and quite often they are close, and like David said, they are trying to lure our dogs out of their pen.

How close do they get? When I leave for work and see coyote poop in my driveway, that’s too close.:shock: They are losing their fear of man, and that ain’t a good thing.

Dennis

[johnny2]

#55970

WHOO-EEE! This is a tough one.

I ran a trapline for a few years mainly for predator control and I must admit I saw more turkey, quail and rabbit then. But on the flip side it doesn’t “feel right to me” anymore and I love to hear the coyotes as well as see any of the predators around here.

A few years back, after I had stopped the trapping, I climbed in my stand and noticed a gray fox sleeping in a brush pile not 25 yards from me. About 20 minutes later I heard what i took to be a wood duck squeal but I was quite a ways from the creek. It turned out to be a second fox calling for it’s mate. Later that afternoon after they had left my sight I heard them barking. I knew what a fox bark sounded like but I had never heard a fox make that squeal before.

Now, on our lease the biologist has stated we need predator control, high fawn and turkey poult mortality. I’m torn. The predators were here first. I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Everyone else on the lease agrees with the biologist so it really doesn’t matter what I think. Don’t think I’ll participate though.

[Hiram]

#56071

I do not like dry land trap sets. That is just my own personal deal with the animal. I used to trap as a kid to buy my school clothes and gas to get to my girlfriends house. I always trapped the river for Coons in a canoe and used Drown sets only. I like to end it quick for the animal, Death that is. Dry land sets keep them there trapped by the damaged leg and seems a little out of sinc for my reverent world of things in the woods. The “woods karma” thing you might say. Kill em quickly and cleanly! Then listen to the Turkeys fly up to roast in the evening. I know Owls kill a few but the Owl is a Messenger and is also protected. Management is what has brought the Whitetail back, and management is what is needed in my area on Coyotes. Bobcats are not as numerous in my area as Yotes, so I can pass on one if I am not in the mood which is seldom. Each to their own on this one. I am not passionate about this subject. I am subjectively involved with preserving the Turkey populas so I can hear them Gobble in the spring and Kee-kee in the fall. Yelp:)

[Don Thomas]

#56869

I guess I come down somewhere in the middle of this one. I have tremendous respect for coyotes, just as I do for all fellow predators. I strongly oppose efforts to kill them just to get rid of them (the USDA Predator Control program, for example). But I also see no conflict between respecting animals and killing them selectively; after all, we respect deer and elk too. In fact, I have always argued as a matter of policy that the best approach to managing controversial large predators (wolves are an excellent current example) is to treat them as valuable game animals. This approach acknowledges their legitimate place in the ecosystem, makes them valuable in the wild, and allows for selective take by those who choose to do so. Would I have taken the shot? Yes! Do I respect the opinions of those who wouldn’t? Yes! Go figure… Don

[Todd Smith]

#57071

I once read a book about wolves and the author claimed that many times a pack will surround an animal and there will be a long silent eye-to-eye contact between the prey and the wolves. Then all at once the wolves just swing away and apparently ‘decide’ not to kill that particular animal. I always thought that was cool.

So, I think that I’ll have to make my decision when the opportunity arises.

I agree that they should be treated as game animals and that it should be up to the individual to decide.

I don’t fault anyone who shoots them, but I don’t fault anyone for not shooting them either. todd

[David Petersen]

#57365

Seems like maybe Todd’s balanced response is a good note on which to wind this one down? Thanks for all the coolness on a potentially hot topic, which, like most hot topics, is neither black nor white but various shades of gray, depending in this case largely on where we live. Happy Veteran’s Day, if “happy” is an appropriate word. dave

[Hiram]

#57384

This was a good thread guys! Thanks Steve for the story in the beginner stage. Blessings, Amen.:D

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