Gap Method

[Crystalshrimp]

#6757

Ive been shooting instinctively since Ive pick up my longbow and shoot fairly well out to about 20 or 25 yards. Which is all Ill ever need. Well besides a deer willing to stand around long enough for me to get an arrow off the shelf. In any case, I’d like to start learning how to Gap shoot or atleast incorporate it into my training this year. I just do not know where or rather how to start. Any advise would be appreciated. I just need a starting point. Ill put in the time. I would really like to increase my consistancy.

[Troy Breeding]

#54607

Leo,

There is basically two methods of gap shooting. One is known as gap at target the other is gap at end of shaft.

Gap at target is the method most tournament shooters use. To do this take a piece of cardboard aprox 1′ wide by 3′ tall. Draw a line down the middle of the cardboard with a marker dark enough that you can see it at 30yds.

Now approx. 6″ from the top make a 2″ dot. Below the dot draw a horozinal line every 4″. These lines will give you something to judge your gap with. Your first shots will be at 10yds.

Put the tip of your arrow on say the 4th line down and shoot. If the arrow impacts below the dot move up to the next line for the next shot. If this shot impacts above the dot then you will know that your gap for 10yds is somewhere between 12″ and 16″ below what you want to hit. At this point all you have to do is carry on shooting at points between the two lines until you find the exact gap.

Once you find your ten yard gap the other yardages will be done the same way.

Now to do the point of arrow method. It’s the same way only you will be judging your gap by what you see at the end of the arrow.

With gap at target your gap can be at times as much as several inches to a foot or more. With point of arrow gap the gap will normally be less then 2″.

With gap at target you will need to be able to see most of your target if not all. With this method you may not be able to see the whole animal when hunting.

If you shoot three under your gap will be much less than if you shoot split finger.

Troy

[Troy Breeding]

#54614

Also forgot to say that the lighter the arrow the less distance you will see in your gap from one distance to another. The heavier the arrow the more distance you will have in your gap from one distance to another.

Also with heavy arrows you may end up holding point over at longer distance. This is more common with three under shooting.

The gap with my 700rain arrows is 2″ at 5yds with my gap at end of arrow method. With the “Airhammer” it is approx 1″.

If I shot gap at target the gap would be approx 20″ with the 700gr arrow and something like 10″ with the “Airhammer”

I shoot split finger.

Troy

[Crystalshrimp]

#54679

what is your reference point on your arrow? And is that point on the top side of your arrow or on the side? Im guessing that I should figure out my point on first? Should I work towards after my point on if found or the other way around? And finally, What kind of training regimen could you advise me of. Id be sure to follow it. I would like gaping to be of second nature to me. Done subconsciously.

[Troy Breeding]

#54725

I use the top of the shaft/filed point/broadhead ferrel as my reference point. Some say they try to figure where the true center of the point is. To me thats taking a big chance of getting the point above what you want to hit by covering up the object on long range shots. Don’t worry with finding your point on. That will come as you work up your dufferent gap distance.

True gapping is never subconscious. It’s exactly what they call it.

Troy

[Crystalshrimp]

#55478

Thanks again Troy. It looks like I’ll be practicing quite a bit. I really want accuracy and consistancy, both of which are attainable.

[Troy Breeding]

#55513

A lot of folks say they don’t gap, they shoot instintive. If you use your arrow in any form to line up on the target you are gap shooting. I hear shooters say “well I just use my shaft to make sure I’m on left and right, but don’t know exactly how much I hold below or over the target. I just go by feel”.

This is still gapping. Wether it’s intenial or not. Otherwise I could let someone shoot afew arrows to get the correct sight picture and feel of where to hit, then blindfold the shooter and they should still be able to hit in the same spot.

Troy

[bruc]

#55719

Can the bow be canted when using the “gap method” ?

If using split fingers will it work if middle finger is placed at the corner of the mouth for an anchor?

Is it fairly accurate ?

Bruce

[Troy Breeding]

#55735

bruc wrote: Can the bow be canted when using the “gap method” ?

If using split fingers will it work if middle finger is placed at the corner of the mouth for an anchor?

Is it fairly accurate ?

Bruce

Bruce,

Yes the bow an be canted, but it does make things tougher.

As for which finger? Using the middle finger helps close up the gap. I anchor with first finger and that drops the rear of the arrow making the gap bigger.

Once you have your gap correct at each distance your accuracy will go way up. thats why most top teer tournament shooters us it.

It takes time to learn how to do it correctly and remember your gaps correctly. You must also be able to correctly figure your yardages. Most shooters that have their gaps worked out and miss will tell you they had a brain f@%# in their yardage figures.

Figuring the correct yardage is my biggest problem.

Troy

[bamboo]

#55757

i started instinctive and learned to gap–in my case it morphed into gap-stinctive —try this –i dip the point-end about 2-3″of white paint[any light color] –when you come to full draw the paint will appear as a 1 inch post[real easy to see]also using the white post allows the the sight picture to always stay the same–regardless of the length the point–it made it easier for me—

——————————–mike

[Troy Breeding]

#55941

bamboo wrote: i started instinctive and learned to gap–in my case it morphed into gap-stinctive —try this –i dip the point-end about 2-3″of white paint[any light color] –when you come to full draw the paint will appear as a 1 inch post[real easy to see]also using the white post allows the the sight picture to always stay the same–regardless of the length the point–it made it easier for me—

——————————–mike

Mike,

When I started shooting carbon, I only used the wood grain finished shafts for that exact reason. When I finally decided to give the black one a try I found I too wasn’t able to see the end of my shaft in low light. I tried painting the ends of the shafts, but found it came off really quick while practicing. Later I started footing my carbons. My first footings were Autumn Orange finished. I could see these pretty easily. When I ran out of the AO shafts for footing I tried regular camo shaft. Couldn’t see them worth a hoot. Finally I saw a post on another site where the fellow sanded off the camo and left it shiny silver. This is fine for target, but a bit too much for hunting. To solve this I found that a yellow sharpie changes the silver footing to a super looking neon yellow. About the same color as my fletching.

Troy

[Crystalshrimp]

#56266

Troy Breeding wrote: [quote=bamboo]To solve this I found that a yellow sharpie changes the silver footing to a super looking neon yellow. About the same color as my fletching.

Troy

How about a turbulator on the front end of the arrow shaft?

[bamboo]

#56336

you can try a turbulator–but i suspect it will not be easy to see–a 2-3″dip appears in the sight picture as a short post-on hunting arrows you could use a 2-3″ section of wrap-but practicing w/the wraps on -they won’t last long–and the paint will wear also depending on target material[yuo can get target burn]i once used a silver sharpie–and it worked pretty good and you could re “paint” it easily –i found the foot dip to be a excellant training aid to learn the gap method–and i don’t have it on all my arrows now–but in low light i sometimes find myself wishing i did

————————good luck mike

[Troy Breeding]

#56470

Doing anything to the front of the shaft to help with gapping need to be there when tuning. More than anything once you pass in to UEFOC.

Mike has it right when he says that a wide paint band or like I use the footings reduce in size multi fold when you look down the shaft. I’m not even sure you could see a turbolator band.

Troy

[Jason Wesbrock]

#56968

I didn’t read all the replies, but all you need to find your gaps is a dot on the wall and a tape measure. Pick a yardage, use the tip of your arrow like a sight pin on the dot and shoot. Once you get a group, measure how far above or below the dot your group falls. That’s your gap. Nothing to it. If your arrows are hitting (for example) 12″ above the dot at 20 yards, you know you have to hold the tip 12″ under your intended target at that distance.

For a good visual explanation, check out the Masters of the Barebow DVD series. If I recall, volume two is where Rod and Larry go into detail about their gap methods.

[Troy Breeding]

#57568

J.

If Rod is now offering the method you describe then he must have changed his way of teaching since he worked with me several years ago.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, just different than in the past.

Troy

[Jason Wesbrock]

#57588

Troy Breeding wrote: J.

If Rod is now offering the method you describe then he must have changed his way of teaching since he worked with me several years ago.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, just different than in the past.

Troy

Troy,

I don’t know how Rod taught back then, but that was what he explained on Masters of the Barebow. I just rechecked, and it was actually volume one, which came out in 2006.

[Troy Breeding]

#57624

J.

Rod and I grew up together. Back around 2004 I really did a number on my shoulder. After surgery I needed help getting back to form so I ask Rod ask help me. I had never really used the intential gap method. I had worked out what I thought worked best with an unintential gap method. As we worked on my new form I found that knowing the exact gap made a great difference in hitting the exact spot I wanted. His method at that time was as I explained earlier.

Troy

[bruc]

#57753

I’m very intrigued by all of this:!:

I have had an ongoing battle with target panic and feel for the most part that I have it under control with the help of a clicker. Wondering if this system might help me with my little “demon” or hinder?

Wondering what % approximate of archers use this system?

Appreciate your responses !

Bruce.

[Troy Breeding]

#57776

Not sure of the %, but I’d think a large % of the top contenders do it.

I’ve heard of several people using this method to help with TP.

Troy

[Jason Wesbrock]

#57834

bruc wrote: I’m very intrigued by all of this:!:

I have had an ongoing battle with target panic and feel for the most part that I have it under control with the help of a clicker. Wondering if this system might help me with my little “demon” or hinder?

Wondering what % approximate of archers use this system?

Appreciate your responses !

Bruce.

Bruc,

I can tell you in my case that going to a clicker literally made the difference between continuing with traditional archery and hanging it up. I can’t imagine that switching from instinctive to gap would help one bit since I know as many gap shooters as instinctive shooters who struggle with target panic. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned about target panic over the years it’s that there’s no one-size-fits-all solution, so trying most anything to control it is worth the effort.

[Troy Breeding]

#57884

The main reason I feel gapping will help is the fact that it forces you to take a few seconds to set your gap. Most shooters I see with TP are as they think instinctive. They pull up and never aim the shot. To me it looks like they can’t get the arrow off the string fast enough.

Troy

[lechwe]

#21495

J.Wesbrock wrote: [quote=bruc]I’m very intrigued by all of this:!:

I have had an ongoing battle with target panic and feel for the most part that I have it under control with the help of a clicker. Wondering if this system might help me with my little “demon” or hinder?

Wondering what % approximate of archers use this system?

Appreciate your responses !

Bruce.

Bruc,

I can tell you in my case that going to a clicker literally made the difference between continuing with traditional archery and hanging it up. I can’t imagine that switching from instinctive to gap would help one bit since I know as many gap shooters as instinctive shooters who struggle with target panic. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned about target panic over the years it’s that there’s no one-size-fits-all solution, so trying most anything to control it is worth the effort.

I don’t really think the aiming method is going to help you at all long term to deal with target panic. I have not been shooting traditional for more than about 4 years but have dealt with TP during that time and with my compound before that. I was frustrated with my lack of consistency with the recurve and finally last spring went to one of Rod’s clinics. The biggest thing I got out of it was being able to get to full draw constantly. I think that is the biggest hurdle to get over for curing TP. If you can learn to reach full draw every time and continue to pull through the shot I doubt you would ever have an issue with it again and if you do it will be due to not reaching full draw and continuing to pull. Those that use a clicker are getting part of the way there.

If you weren’t going to try and make it to a clinic I would suggest picking up Masters of the Bare Bow 3 as Rod goes through much of his class there. It’s not the same as having him stand right there with you but a good alternative. Rick Welch is another person that gets good reviews for his teaching ability.

Good luck.

[bruc]

#22597

Thanks Leche

I do use the clicker and it does help a lot !

Will likely try Masters of the Bare Bow 3. Likely is very interesting.

Bruce

[jmack130]

#23627

hi yall im new to this computer stuff so i might need a little help relaying my vast knolage to u hope this is workin i would like to stay in tune with other purest

[Jason Wesbrock]

#25276

lechwe wrote: I don’t really think the aiming method is going to help you at all long term to deal with target panic.

I agree wholeheartedly. I have yet to see any correlation between aiming styles and target panic. I’ve seen folks suffer with it who shoot anything from longbows instinctively up to and including compounds with sights and releases. There’s a reason why back tension releases are so popular with compound shooters – they are to a release shooter what a clicker is to a finger shooter. But like I posted earlier, try anything you can to beat it. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

[bruc]

#18847

Experimenting a little bit, index finger in corner of mouth,which feels more comfortable than mid-finger there. Anyway when I shoot my aiming point seems to be in the ground, considerably lower than what is comfortable. Shooting at 20 to 30 yards.

I plan on getting ” Masters of the Barebow 3″. Just trying to “feel the waters” a bit,before I spend a summer of practicing and find out it was not for me.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce

[wildschwein]

#19073

I shoot gap/split vision or however one wishes to label it, and I also found the large gap that Bruce is describing to be a hinderance. So I just upped my arrow wieght which meant I had to lift my arrow tip reference point to compensate for the faster drop. Found the 650ish grain mark out of a 45ish pound bow allowed me to use point on at 30 yards, and just slightly lower for twenty. Of course it probably will vary user for user when draw length and other considerations are taken into effect, but it helped me tremendously.

[Jason Wesbrock]

#19439

There are basically two ways to shorten your point-on distance, raise your anchor or slow down your bow. If you have a short draw length, longer arrows can help somewhat as well.

[Hiram]

#20080

Jason, I used a clicker for a while and it helped me. That was a year or so ago and have since moved on to working out my shot sequence steps to the advanced level.

Waht I mean is, I have perfected my sequence all the way to the expansion part of the shot. The little bugger that I am working on now is expansion to conclusion. I do not even refer to the release as part of the shot sequence anymore because as Rod says, “It is a action that is a result of the sequence”. I rely on the subconscious to run the shot to conclusion so that I am free to just aim.

I am now working on having a 3 parts of my expansion as a sequence broken down. I first get to anchor, then on to alignment and begin expansion. I start the back muscles pulling the string and begin my aiming process. Once this is done and I reach the 2nd,3rd, part of expansion which is really just pulling with the back,, The shot just happens! I have all the other building blocks of my shot to a level of subconsciuos control,,,am working on my expansion being this way so I am totally free to just aim and the shot happens as result of the sequence being ingrained through practice,,,practice ,,>>>————> This has done so much to improve my shooting that I no longer need a clicker to trigger the shot. The shot trigger really should not even be a conscious thing but an accumalation of the process being ingrained in the correct manner of learning how shoot a barebow. I insist,,believe that most of us started shooting a bow the incorrect way,, No good coaching or by a Mentor that was also not teaching the sequence in proper format. Try this,,, I know you at a level of advanced skill. Get close and do your bale work, get to the expansion phase and maintain your hook on the string. Start pulling the string with your back muscles and feel the tension starting to pull the string to the rear while maintaining your anchor. Pull until fingers jusdt start slipping off the string. After you have this down? Then incorporate aiming and focus on setting point and gap only. The shot will just trigger itself when the internal mental process has completed it’s cycle of aiming. The goal is this, That the subconsciuos totally runs the shot, and that your consciuos mind accepts the fact that it can do it!!! Aiming is all the conscious mind needs to be doing. So what I am saying is this in conclusion; The shot trigger is non existent when done correctly! So after you have this ingrained (the sequence) you no longer need a consciuos que to trigger!:D

[Jason Wesbrock]

#20523

Sam,

Thanks for the post. It just goes to show the individual nature of target panic (or rather, controlling it). I know folks who have used all kind of different methods to regain control over their shot execution—from Fred Asbel’s article to Jay Kidwell’s drills to bale and bridge work to clickers. As a matter of fact, there’s a gentleman on another site who had a great thread going about the use of what basically amounts to a tab clicker. It’s all good stuff and reinforces the point that what works for one person may not work for the next.

[Hiram]

#20771

Blessings Jason! Good to talk with you.:D

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