FPS/Slugs and bones….

[Abel]

#6395

So I got my hands on a chrono…..

55lb Recurve

730grns total arrow weight

128fps ave

.41 slugs momentum.

Now I gained about 9fps with 630grns but lost momentum. From what I’ve got from Dr. Ashvy’s work, 650grns is the magic bone busting number, got that and arrows are flying nice. But never saw or found any “magic” numbers for momentum with that 650. Bow is quiet, planning on loading 300gr Tuffheads. So is there a specific minimum I shoud be looking for? i still have enough time before my hunt that I could grab heavier 60lb limbs for my bow and retune if i absolutley need it.

[jpc]

#50862

What kind of game are you looking to hunt ?????????

[Abel]

#50880

O, my bad. I’m hunting Brown Bears in may up here in Kodiak.

[kingwouldbe]

#52980

In my experience more is better, until you can’t handle it, then back down until you can, in hunting we are only taking a few shots, not shooting a field tournament of 100+ arrows.

If you can shoot the heavier limbs I would, Howard Hill liked to hunt with 80-90lb bows because of the better cast and deeper penetration, he and Bear both said; the most important thing is penetration, with out enough penetration you will not reach the vitals.

No one, & I mean NO ONE, has ever lost an animal from to much penetration, on the other hand, countless animals have been lost from lack of penetration, even if it was hit bad, a pass through is better than not getting deep enough.

Big bears are north Americas most dangerous game, the adrenalin factor alone could cause one to make a less than perfect shot to begin with, sticking a big bear with a sharp stick could get one eaten, I would also not want my arrow to stay in him, so he could see it and cause more flight in his reaction, usually if it just jumps through them, they are more puzzled to what just happened, than if they see an arrow wagging in there side.

I am assuming you would be shooting 20 yards or under, I would shoot the heaviest bow I could work up to, shooting only 5 or six arrow with it a day, yet making perfect shots as I can, I would also shoot around 1000 grains with UEFOC ( ultras extreme forward of center ) I do not need a flat shooting arrow, I want a deep penetrating arrow.

Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it.

PS, I shot this boar at around 30 yards with a 60# centaur longbow, a 675 grain arrow with a tuffhead and over 30% uefoc, I only got about 11′ into him, hitting him in the heart, I did a test shot @ around 6 yards after he was dead and only got about 4 more inches of penetration.

I would not shoot this set up at a Brown bear.

[David Petersen]

#52999

What King says X2!

David–that boar looks like a hippo with bananas, I mean tusks. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were raising these big boys on a feedlot with hormone-laced Purina Hogzilla chow. THAT would be a hunt of a lifetime for me but I doubt I’ll ever even get a crack at a feral wiener.

[kingwouldbe]

#53009

Well my friend, as you know, it’s a labor of love……

Who knows…. if we could ever get you out of the high country, maybe take a TRIP back to California ( pun intended ), bust some mountain hogs, stranger things have happened.

The problem with California, they charge all the money to hunt here, if I did not live here, I would head to Texas, hunter friendly & game rich

[James Harvey]

#53148

Hey King,

those two shots you put on that piggy, were they broadsides? Those fighting pads can be seriously thick.

I don’t know the first thing about bears but I had it in my head that they are relatively ‘easy’ to penetrate. Is that true or did I just make it up somewhere along the way?

[jason samkowiak]

#53456

ausjim wrote:

I don’t know the first thing about bears but I had it in my head that they are relatively ‘easy’ to penetrate. Is that true or did I just make it up somewhere along the way?

Jim, I think you are correct. I have only killed a few black bears and about a dozen hogs. (some big ones of both species).

All the bears i shot as well as another 8 or so that i was along on the tracking for were all killed with 63# or less longbows and all were pass thru stuck in the ground shots. Not sure about brownies as i never hunted them but my thoughts would be they would be very similar to the blacks.

Now hogs on the other hand can be tough. But there are huge variables in what i have personally witnessed. I have seen full penetration by 45# longbows on big pigs and I have had only one side penetration on bog pics with my heaviest bow (77# recurve).

The bears are consistant pass thrus. the penetration on pigs is all over the place and no ryme or reason in all the stuff i have personally seen.

[Ptaylor]

#53937

Great topic. I would think penetrating a bear is not easy. I don’t have much to go on for this, except that when I’ve skinned/butchered black bears, my knife dulls really quick and I have to constantly sharpen it during the process. I think this is the case because of all the tendons in the meat. Would like to hear some other opinions too…:?:

[Abel]

#53996

Appreciate all the info guys. I’m thinking of building some laminated birch here soon as I’ve busted a few cedars already. But looking at the weight gains of them, I’ll loose FOC bigtime I believe, even with 300gr points. I have no issues pulling 55lbs back all day long so I’d have no problem with 60lb limbs. All my shots will be from above as I’ll be hunting the beaches/cliffs and I[m not shooting more than 20, 25yds max.

I did some playing this weekend, shot some of my old carbons, they flew 170fps w/ 100gr points, my woods out penetrated them in the foam everytime by at least double everytime. Was impressed by that.

[kingwouldbe]

#54008

Hi Ausjim, yes, the kill shot was down hill broadside, test shot was level broadside.

I would definitely agree that bear are easier to penetrant than a big boar hog, however you are also talking 3-4 times the mass, over a black bears, even the big ones, will still be half the size of a brown bear.

Shooting through a black bear is about equal to shooting through a meat hog ( under 150lb ) shooting a brown bear, I would think ( because I’ve not done it ) would be along the lines of shooting a huge boar, ( 300lb and up ) I would want 25″ of penetration minimum to transverse there chest.

Some info:

The grizzly is a North American subspecies of brown bear with the Latin name Ursus arctos horribilis. The correct scientific name for a grizzly is “brown bear,” but only coastal bears in Alaska and Canada are generally referred to as such, while inland and Arctic bears and those found in the lower 48 States are called grizzly bears.

Size and Weight: Walking on all fours, brown bears have a height of about 3.5 feet (just over 1 meter). They can reach heights of 6-7 feet (1.5-2.5 meters) when standing on their hind legs. There are regional size differences among bears; brown bears are generally larger in the north—likely due to the colder climates. The largest of the brown bears, is the Kodiak bear (Ursus arctos middendorffi), is found only in the Kodiak archipelago islands along the southeastern coast of Alaska. Kodiaks can stand more than 10 feet (3 meters) tall on their hind legs and 5 feet (1.5 meters) tall when on all fours.

Brown bears exhibit sexual dimorphism, with males being significantly larger than females. This size difference is a result of larger males having better mating success than smaller males.

Male bears are close to 2 times heavier than females. A typical adult male weighs between 300-850 pounds (130-390 kilograms), while the adult female weighs between 200-450 pounds (90-200 kilograms). Kodiak bears, the largest of the species, can weigh over 1,000 pounds (450 kilograms), as can those brown bears on the Alaska Peninsula

[James Harvey]

#54768

Abel, David Petersen was using some high FOC sitka spruce arrows with 300gn tuffheads for a while there. The SS is strong and light and pretty readily available.

Kingy, I’m not suggesting you wouldn’t want a serious poker to poke a brown bear with 😉 It would be a proper and serious challenge I think. But like I said I’ve no experience with bears 😀 Cheers for the info too.

Jim

[Abel]

#55040

Ya, I ordered a couple of Grizzly sticks for testing. They’re building them to match the grains I’m throwing now so I don;t have to re-learn my shots. If they fly like I’m hoping, with 300 up front I’ll be at 730grains total and a 27% FOC.

[Ed Ashby]

#9351

KINGWOULDBE wrote: In my experience more is better, until you can’t handle it, then back down until you can, in hunting we are only taking a few shots, not shooting a field tournament of 100+ arrows.

If you can shoot the heavier limbs I would, Howard Hill liked to hunt with 80-90lb bows because of the better cast and deeper penetration, he and Bear both said; the most important thing is penetration, with out enough penetration you will not reach the vitals.

No one, & I mean NO ONE, has ever lost an animal from to much penetration, on the other hand, countless animals have been lost from lack of penetration, even if it was hit bad, a pass through is better than not getting deep enough.

Big bears are north Americas most dangerous game, the adrenalin factor alone could cause one to make a less than perfect shot to begin with, sticking a big bear with a sharp stick could get one eaten, I would also not want my arrow to stay in him, so he could see it and cause more flight in his reaction, usually if it just jumps through them, they are more puzzled to what just happened, than if they see an arrow wagging in there side.

I am assuming you would be shooting 20 yards or under, I would shoot the heaviest bow I could work up to, shooting only 5 or six arrow with it a day, yet making perfect shots as I can, I would also shoot around 1000 grains with UEFOC ( ultras extreme forward of center ) I do not need a flat shooting arrow, I want a deep penetrating arrow.

Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it.

PS, I shot this boar at around 30 yards with a 60# centaur longbow, a 675 grain arrow with a tuffhead and over 30% uefoc, I only got about 11′ into him, hitting him in the heart, I did a test shot @ around 6 yards after he was dead and only got about 4 more inches of penetration.

I would not shoot this set up at a Brown bear.

King has some very sound advice there. This is a brown Bear I shot in the late ’70’s. The BIG Browns are BIG and TOUGH. The longbows hanging to the Bear’s right are 70″ long!

Ed

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