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So I ordered my first traditional broad heads this week, and was wondering if I’m going to be running them on a good setup. I have a 64″, 60# recurve that I think I’m pulling closer to 57#, and my arrows are grizzly stick Alaskans which will have woodsman Elite 175gr broad heads. They should weigh about 645-650grs. I know single bevel, tanto tip, is all the rage, but has anyone had experience taking bigger critters like black bear and elk with the Elites?
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Good questions, all, Solo. Problem is that for every answer affirmative or negative to such specifics, you’ll find a counter. Finger release rolling off a string creates a lot of variability between shooters.
Some folks have written here and elsewhere they have some challenges with the Griz Stick. I’ve tested them in years past thru many evolutions and found them excellent. Everyone is different!
I have friends who run a hog hunting operation, and when they loose one, they watch for buzzards and often find it. The gal worked necropsy on hogs for the University in Dallas, so she wades in and cuts em up to find what went wrong… found many 3 blades with the points rolled over against bone
Other people swear by them and wars have been fought over less inflammatory statements. Everyone is different!
I’m sure you’ll find many people who will swear BY the 3 blade. You’re shooting enough draw weight to punch the extra blade thru most stuff. Dr. Ashby’s studies are published here in total,I and while I’ve never heard the Doc tell anyone what to do, he lets the “evidence” of well-done testing speak for itself. Everyone is different!
As most who’ve seen these wars on various topics have come to offer, “shoot what you have confidence in”. You will find people who have had great luck with no matter what you shoot. High FOC, LOW Foc, 2 blade, 3 blade. Polished edge, furry edge heads, Cedar, alum, carbon. Footed, unfooted. 6-strand skinny string, B50. Everyone is different!
Make sure your set up flies well and is properly tuned and PICK A SPOT. WHERE you hit em usually trumps WITH WHAT you hit em!
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Doc Nock wrote: Good questions, all, Solo. Problem is that for every answer affirmative or negative to such specifics, you’ll find a counter. Finger release rolling off a string creates a lot of variability between shooters.
Some folks have written here and elsewhere they have some challenges with the Griz Stick. I’ve tested them in years past thru many evolutions and found them excellent. Everyone is different!
I have friends who run a hog hunting operation, and when they loose one, they watch for buzzards and often find it. The gal worked necropsy on hogs for the University in Dallas, so she wades in and cuts em up to find what went wrong… found many 3 blades with the points rolled over against bone
Other people swear by them and wars have been fought over less inflammatory statements. Everyone is different!
I’m sure you’ll find many people who will swear BY the 3 blade. You’re shooting enough draw weight to punch the extra blade thru most stuff. Dr. Ashby’s studies are published here in total,I and while I’ve never heard the Doc tell anyone what to do, he lets the “evidence” of well-done testing speak for itself. Everyone is different!
As most who’ve seen these wars on various topics have come to offer, “shoot what you have confidence in”. You will find people who have had great luck with no matter what you shoot. High FOC, LOW Foc, 2 blade, 3 blade. Polished edge, furry edge heads, Cedar, alum, carbon. Footed, unfooted. 6-strand skinny string, B50. Everyone is different!
Make sure your set up flies well and is properly tuned and PICK A SPOT. WHERE you hit em usually trumps WITH WHAT you hit em!
And there you have it! The truth!! The only thing I would say to this very in-depth post is that I hope it’s just your first trad broadhead and not your first trad bow. If it were, I’d say that you might be a bit over bowed unless you’re the kind of guy who can do unlimited reps of chin ups! 😀
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You’re shooting a 57# recurve with 650-grain arrows and sharp, lean three-blade heads. Forgetting personal opinions and such, there are many decades of history to show your setup is more than up to the task. Hunt with confidence and have fun.
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What a kind thing to post, Alex. Thank you!
I’d not say it’s “THE” Truth, but it will do for a foundation. 🙂
I had to smile big time o n your comment about ‘unlimited chin ups!”
I NEVER try to comment on bow weight.
Everyone’s newest bow is the latest, greatest, hardest hitting, fastest bow on the planet, regardless of Mfg…
…AND as someone wrote me recently, “everyone is handsome and brilliant on the WWW”! So who’s to argue?
I personally have had stick bows for many years in the 50# range. However, I shot, in days of yore, a wheelie that was 67# with only 25% let off (in those days). Couldn’t hit squat with a stick bow over 55# and at full draw, quickly shook like a dog passing a peach pit!:shock:
That draw weight (55) has dropped as age and arthritis chase me. But I see your point…the transition to stick bows often results in folks being what we call “Over-bowed” (in weight) and short drawing and other stuff that robs the bow of efficiency. Hell, I’ve known bowyers who swear if they build it for 28″ draw and you draw only 27″, the draw force curve falls apart…other bow builders tell you it doesn’t matter. Quien sabe?
On top of that, amidst all those bows i had all in the same draw weight, from varied builders, seldom did 2 of them shoot the same arrows well! Some at that weight pull like it’s made of steel…others like butter!
My “newest, fastest, bestest bow in the universe” 😀 is my custom Sasquatch…made to fit my paw and at 47#, shoots heavier spine arrows than my other 3 50# bows! Some bowyers seem to have a knack to get more from the same draw weight…TO EACH HIS OWN.
The fun of trad archery, to me is like fly fishing for trout, you can tie on a simple streamer and catch fish…or delve into the entomology and learn about life cycles of nymphs (water kind) and start tying/fishing emergers, case shuck trailers, till you loose what sanity you started with. Same with Trad! Take it as far as you heart/mind want to go… deep or surface. Just make your choices are based on solid ethical data that results in clean kills and HAVE FUN!
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Not so sure I started out with all that much sanity, but I have all of the emergers, case shuck trailers, etc. up the ying yang. So I guess this is a comment with limited sanity. I DO think both posts are awesome. Just you make sure they shoot straight. As Grandma used to say “The proof is in the shooting.”
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GRumpy dude,
No wonder you’re grumpy… them emergers, case shuck trailers, etc. up the ying yang. has got to HURT!!!
Try fly boxes… ! Or nymph wallets 😯 You DO know what I meant! 🙄
Yup…proof is in how they fly and how they hit… lots of ways to do trad archery, some better’n others, but none so good they can’t be improved on!
Get em flying like they be laser guided and hitting straight…
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“.AND as someone wrote me recently, “everyone is handsome and brilliant on the WWW”! So who’s to argue?”
Now Doc, I seen your pic. They’re right!!!:wink: Especially after a bee sting to the head. 😀
I guarantee that not every deer is taken with a 50% EFOC out of a 70# bow. Most are killed by people accurately shooting a bow weight that they’re comfortable with and straight shooting sharp broadheads.
So get as good as you can get with what ya got and go hunting.
If it feels uncomfortable, don’t shoot it.
Like Doc says, with years and ailments the poundage has come down but in all actually it should’ve never been as high as it was with me. I have some bad habits created from over bowing. Many others do also.
Practice, practice, practice and by all means don’t fret too much on what others are doing, or say they’re doing.
Another reference to Doc and the WWW, you read on some other sites and you wonder why anybody makes 2nd or 3rd place trophies. Everyone is the best.
Anyway, just get as good as you can get and by all means, don’t over think it. 😀
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And I think what R2’s and my “tongue in cheek” humor is saying, is “Don’t take everything you read on the internet as gospel…”
If you can’t pull it, hold it and sing a few bars of your favorite tune, it might be too heavy for ya!
Shoot well flyin arrows, sharp heads and let the progression of the sport take it’s own time!
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Been thinkin on this….
Last spring I made a dozen arrows. There was one psychotic, and one was severely depressed. So we are down to 10. As I practiced I noticed I didn’t always hit the bulls eye. Since there was no one there to blame, I decided to blame the arrows. MOST BE there were more mal adjusted arrows in there. So as I practiced I put a little dot on one of the fletches every time I hit the bulls eye. Actually I thought about naming the arrows, and writing everything down on a clip board, then thought about creating a database on my laptop, blah, blah, blah. Then decided the little dots were a LOT less work. So I shot the 10 arrows again, and again, and again… Making little dots every time an arrow hit within a 6″ circle.
The results were:
one arrow with 8 dots.
one 6
one 5
three 4
The rest had les than 4 dots, and one only had one dot. Keep in mind that the arrows LOOKED the same, weighed the same, same spine, blah, blah, blah… and had no observed personality disorders. All of which doesn’t matter. The brodheads are going on the six with at least 4 dots.
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Good Stuff, Grumpy,
A good mentor from this site, taught me that even carbons show considerable variance in spine, etc, in any given sold dozen. Best to tune each one individually.
I #mine with dots… on the cresting I spray painted on each of them.
I made a hand drawn “table” (no computer wiz) and kept track like you did…
9 of 12 flew the same repeatedly. These were carbon however. of the errant 3, I cut one 1/16 and it behaved perfectly thereafter. The other I cut 1/16 2x or 1/8 and then it behaved repeatedly. Last one, had to cut 1/4″ off it to get it to stop behaving badly.
Never did that before. I’d shoot 3 or so, then cut them all to whatever that group liked…thinking all were the same. NOT!
Best to constantly test one’s beliefs and be open to others’ more diverse experiences.
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Doc Nock wrote: Good Stuff, Grumpy,
A good mentor from this site, taught me that even carbons show considerable variance in spine, etc, in any given sold dozen. Best to tune each one individually.
I #mine with dots… on the cresting I spray painted on each of them.
I made a hand drawn “table” (no computer wiz) and kept track like you did…
9 of 12 flew the same repeatedly. These were carbon however. of the errant 3, I cut one 1/16 and it behaved perfectly thereafter. The other I cut 1/16 2x or 1/8 and then it behaved repeatedly. Last one, had to cut 1/4″ off it to get it to stop behaving badly.
Never did that before. I’d shoot 3 or so, then cut them all to whatever that group liked…thinking all were the same. NOT!
Best to constantly test one’s beliefs and be open to others’ more diverse experiences.
Wow. I wish my shooting was good enough to notice a difference in my POI due to 1/16″ of an inch being cut off one of my arrows!
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E1,
Don’t over-interpret that. I used Troy Breeding’s tuning guide for EFOC shafts on Tuff Head site.
Drew his recommended 1″ vertical line on a piece of paper…tuned each arrow (one at a time) to perfect nock orientation in a NEW foam block target from cabellas. Otherwise, nock orientation depends on the continuity of the material it’s pushing into in the target.
After getting them flying “perfect” to the eye at 10-15 yards, I moved back to 20-25 yards, ala Troy’s guide. Whoops! I could see them tailing about 5 yards from the target, which didn’t appear till I stepped back.
They recovered (carbon do that nicely) and stuck in the vertical line pretty well, nock straight out and level, but….they “kicked” in flight!!!:shock:
I shoot lower draw bows (47#) so I don’t want arrows wasting energy with arrows that behave badly and flip around burning energy like a NASCAR driver behind the pace car keeping his tires clean…
That’s when, given I shot those errant arrows over, and over and over and kept records by the #’d shafts, on my “hand-done table” (spreadsheet?) to make sure it wasn’t me… I started cutting 1/16″ off each one of the three that kicked consistently, and re-shooting over and over. TINY increments with carbon can change spine BIG TIME… proven it more often that I like to admit…:roll:
So I cut FROM THE REAR on bare shafts,(already had my over-footing and inserts glued in) cutting only 1/16″ at a time. All still hit where I wanted, but I could see that “kick” (read about it in Troy’s guide).
One saw blade width cut on one was enough and I shot and shot that arrow with no more “tailing”.
Next one a single 1/16 didn’t make tailing go away so I cut it ANOTHER 1/16 …then shot and shot and shot and it was behaving nicely.
Last one, kept showing snotty flight down range where it would kick, so I cut it until it stopped…but trust me, there were MANY slow, careful shots between cuts!!! And I kept records to ensure it wasn’t just ME… I tend to get sloppy when I’m tired and this whole process was spread out over a few days, thank you very much! Ugh… but it’s worth it (to ME) for the extra confidence when shooting thru holes in brush, etc, to know I won’t get some goofy “kick” within my normal hunting distances!
IF that isn’t enough to make your eyes cross, I started all over after I fletched them with broad heads! I just left an extra 1/4″ between rear of shaft and where I normally start my fletches at the rear, and it worked out fine… actually, I didn’t need to do anything more with fletched and BH’s… Guess Troy knows a few things about tuning.
Worked for me. YMMV
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