Ethics

[maddawg]

#3390

A friend I was discussing various situations in regard to hunting. A quick browse of this and other sites left me wondering, how come there is not a forum, thread for hunting ethics, protocol, and maybe just tradtional culture.

I might shoot wheels but, I have a tradtional heart.:?::idea:

[Fallguy]

#19489

The only place I have seen a column is in the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundations Bugle Magazine. They have a column called Situation Ethics, members write a 1 page story of a incident that has happened to them. Sometimes these articles generate a letter or 2 that get printed. Mostly though it allows you to put yourself in there boots and decide. I have posed a couple ethics type questions here and on other sites. I usually lasts to page 2 before the moderator has to shut it down. Some one always seems to think if you type louder and longer and attack the individual you can justify your position.

[maddawg]

#19497

Thanks. It just appears, to me, that we as a society we may have lost our moral compass. Maybe it is time that we address and educate on what maybe right in a given situation.

[David Petersen]

#19674

Maddawg — A good point you bring up. If you follow this site closely on a regular basis, I believe you’ll find us to be “the ethics site.” While there is no designated ethics forum (over time we have learned that too many forums discourage the number of posts), the Campfire forum is for all topics and ethical situations are a common thread. Same for TBM magazine. If you want to talk ethics here, it’s a safe and friendly place as there is no bullying by moderators and no personal insults allowed. Tracking back through our few years online, there’s probably a book-full of polite and intelligent ethical discussions on a broad array of topics. Thanks for bringing it to the forefront.

[Col Mike]

#19996

In the mid 80’s I taught leadership/ethics at the U.S.Naval Academy. At that time (you older folks will remember) the speed limit was 55mph. My question to the midshipmen was–how many of you observe the posted limit? Response was, come on sir, we are driving fast. Of course my response was –what laws do you decide to follow or ignore. Remember in the near future when you are Ensigns and 2nd Lt.’s your sailors and Marines will be watching you as their moral example. They will see you violating those seemingly minor laws. But there will come a time when you will call on them to push the limit and then you will be held accountable in the crucible of combat. True ethical behavior is a lifetime en devour. It starts now with the little things.

Semper Fi

Mike

PS. Dave think I figured out how to post. Stand By

[William Warren]

#20042

ColMike,

What words to live by. Thanks for posting that. It is true whether you are military or civilian and promoted from the ranks. They remember everything you did along the way.

And likewise others are watching what we as hunters and trad shooters do so ethics do matter. Great thread!

Duncan

[Ben M.]

#20233

A good example of an ethics discussion on this forum is the thread “Low percentage shots” started on 9/2/12. Check it out, you’ll see what I mean.

[maddawg]

#20395

Prairie Prowler wrote: A good example of an ethics discussion on this forum is the thread “Low percentage shots” started on 9/2/12. Check it out, you’ll see what I mean.

.

Read the thread. Excellent, especially the post of regretting shots taken.

[gigglemonk]

#20870

I agree with Dave Petersen, this site does feel more ethics heavy than some other sites Im on. Im 34 and a child when it comes to hunting. This site gives a lot of space, albeit undesignated, towards ethics. Which is needed for people in my situation… no mentor, lots of DIY learning, few friends who hunt.

When I have a question about ethics the campfire seems a fitting place. Like this question, should I take a 4 day weekend to go hunting or stay at home and help the girlfriend entertain her visiting mom?

[Raymond Coffman]

#20893

gigglemonk –

Take them hunting with you —

Scout

[gigglemonk]

#21080

cyberscout wrote: gigglemonk –

Take them hunting with you —

Scout

The girlfriend loves going out with me. Her mom though is of the opinion that hunting is an unethical endeavor. She’s coming around, pretty slowly, but definitely coming around.

[Raymond Coffman]

#21647

Great !!

Take em both for a ” Nature Walk” { Scouting for you }. It is amazing to me how observant ladies are – even if they- have not been to the woods much.

Scout

[lyagooshka]

#21747

I have seen quite a few ethics discussions in many places. F&S has a Q&A about ethical decisions towards the front that people write in to with real-world situations. TBM often has articles that have ethics interwoven into them, as well as flat out ethics as the main topic. Ethics is also taught during the hunter/trapper education classes [at least here in PA, thinks it’s the same everywhere]. In one part, the group is split into smaller groups and each is given a “situation” to talk out. There are no “correct” answers. I think that the term “ETHICS” has been a bit over-played though, and that is why people might be shying away from the label, choosing instead to include it as an aside.

That being said, I love reading “dilemma” posts. I did one on high-fence preserves, got some great info. I’d like to see what people think an “ethical” time period is for tracking a deer after a less-than perfect shot. Also, how good to you have to be at the range before you are ok to hunt? (After my last few outings to the 3D range, I am thinking about going back to the training wheels. 🙁 )

Anyway, great posts, please keep them coming.

Alex

😀

[MSARCHER]

#21962

Also, how good to you have to be at the range before you are ok to hunt? (After my last few outings to the 3D range, I am thinking about going back to the training wheels. 🙁 )

Anyway, great posts, please keep them coming.

Alex

😀

I’m with you, i’ve been engrossed unitl obsession with tuning and i’m so aggrovated that I cant get it right that i’m ready to sell out and go back to the compound. I haven’t even hunted with my recurve cause i’m still trying to tune my freaking arrows, not to mention the money i’ve wasted on a set of 350’s to find they were to stiff….and now i’m starting to think I just can’t do this.

(I’m mostly talk, I love this stuff to much to quit it…but I am still mad at the time, but i’ll keep at it) I can always just ask Troy.

[David Petersen]

#22257

Nick — all you need is a godd tuning mentor. After that it’s all sweetness and light …

[Mark Turton]

#22688

Colmike, an interesting example but I question whether legal requirements and moral principles are the same thing.

If an aggressor makes to through a petrol bomb at you then rules of engagement say you can engage to protect life and property, however if he is 100m away and there is no immediate danger to life or property can you still engage to prevent him doing this in the future as he is clearly demonstrating that he is prepared to damage life or property?

Mark.

[MSARCHER]

#22981

David Petersen wrote: Nick — all you need is a godd tuning mentor. After that it’s all sweetness and light …

Yea Dave, you are right, but my mentoring comes only from this group on here, which aint bad, but isn’t as good as if I had say…a neighbor that was proficient at tuning. Traditional archery isn’t very popular around North Mississippi so i’m on my own for now, but I’m no quitter so i’ll keep chipping away at it and maybe figure it out soon and can catch late season.

nick

[garydavis]

#23363

I did a three year tour in the service and they may have been the most irresponsible, insane, and dangerous years of my life. I don’t know if it was a sense of ethics, luck or just plain fear of the consequences that got me straightened out long enough to become the man I am. I don’t recall an “ethics” course, but then, I wasn’t ever at an academy. I do know that most of the things I’ve read here and in some of the books I’ve been reading indicate a “right” mindedness and sound as true as I’d like my arrows to fly. That is why I’ve become rather preoccupied with this site. Most of y’all know stuff I want to know. Not just about taking game but following the code or path you follow that is more than just common sense. It just seems like the right way to go about filling my freezer(if that ever happens). That is, if I can ever get these danged arrows to fly where I want them to.

There is also a wicked sense of humor that don’t hurt anybodies feelings here that is a comfort too. I’d add one of them smiley faces if I could figure that out.

Thanks,

Gary

[Roger Norris]

#23439

“Ethics” are such a personal thing, I admire folks that can discuss them politely.

I have found that a weak ethical base in one area of a persons life is a PERFECT indicator of how they will act in another…example…if a guy will cheat on his wife, he will certainly break a game law. I’m not perfect, by any means, but I try and seperate myself from those folks who cut too deeply into my ethical core.

I like that old saying..something like “Ones true ethics are what they do when they are alone”.

I strongly believe that challenging our ethics is an important key to keeping hunting alive.

[archer38]

#23553

Very well said Roger !! I’ve often thought that “ethical hunting” may have a slightly different meaning to some people than it does to others. Like you stated, “what they will do when they are alone”.

[lyagooshka]

#24053

Nick: I am with you there. Here in the Lehigh Valley I know very few traditional archers. They are here, just spread out. I started late, so I didn’t have a chance to meet many of them. There are a few shops around here that sell compound and x-bows, but nothing trad. I have gotten some great advice here, but you are correct, it is nothing like having someone who can show you hands on. As for ethics being personal, I have to point a caution flag there. Remember that 10% of the population’s ehtics deal with banning hunting. Ethics have to be based on a common set of rules. It should be about how you follow or uphold those rules, but there has to be a foundation. Be well all.

Alex

😀

[MSARCHER]

#24241

lyagooshka wrote: Nick: I am with you there. Here in the Lehigh Valley I know very few traditional archers. They are here, just spread out. I started late, so I didn’t have a chance to meet many of them. There are a few shops around here that sell compound and x-bows, but nothing trad. I have gotten some great advice here, but you are correct, it is nothing like having someone who can show you hands on. As for ethics being personal, I have to point a caution flag there. Remember that 10% of the population’s ehtics deal with banning hunting. Ethics have to be based on a common set of rules. It should be about how you follow or uphold those rules, but there has to be a foundation. Be well all.

Alex

😀

Yea Alex, you should see the looks I get when I walk into our local archery shop with my recurve…like they are waiting on me to say “nah, i’m just kidding.”

[CareyE]

#24253

Same here in Central PA. We are quite the exception to the rule in thi state apparently. A friend was have trouble with his Hoyt compound before our CO trip. The shop owner took a micrometer all over his bow to see what was wrong. He couldn’t figure it out, so he just sold him another bow! I asked what he will do on the trip if something comes undone? Just shrugged his shoulders.

[lyagooshka]

#24271

I (quickly) went to traditional archery for many reasons. One of them is that I have a complete second bow in my backpack. Other than the riser and limbs, I have a spare string, nocks, fletchings, etc, all of which I could make very workable sitting by the campfire. I don’t need a bow press, micrometer, laser pointer, etc. Also, my bow falls from a stand, I pick it up, check for damage and go on shooting. I don’t have to re-sight my pins, re-adjust my gears, or whatever else could go wrong. Ever since I started to truly entertain the idea of a DIY trip, I wanted to make sure I would not be let down by some equipment malfunction. That simplicity really speaks to my idea of archery. Not putting down any archer, compund or otherwise, but for me, it just works.

I gave my buddy my longbow yesterday to take a shot. First thing he said was “How do you aim this thing?”. He’s the guy who I gave my compound to when I went to trad. It struck me as funny.

Alex

😀

[Ralph]

#24291

I went to Marine Corps boot camp starting in Dec. of 1966 and the only thing that I can remember about any military ethics was whatever the DI dictated 😀 was the ethical thing to be done. Simple case of ‘his right, my wrong’.

Ethics are dictated by society but that doesn’t allow that a particular society’s ethics agree with mine. My mind must be at ease with what I do, not anybody else’s. My ethics shouldn’t only be guided by the law of the land, they should be guided by what I think is right or wrong coming from my heart.

“What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas” doesn’t work for my conscience.

[bruc]

#24556

Well said R2 !!!

[Col Mike]

#24621

Well I am not an expert on this but it seems to me that moral standards/behavior is a product of your society and in ours the legal requirements attempt to guide that responsibility to our society. In the not so distant past some societies had no problem with putting the weak,sick, and old out side to pass on. We don’t. Neither view is right or wrong they are what they are. And my concept may be different from yours. My personal check is quite simple–in the morning I look this weathered face in the mirror and ask–any regrets from yesterday?

Pertaining to the dilemma that you posted—that is a situation and question that the individual confronted must face. From my perspective I trusted my Marines to make the right call and backed their decision.

It’s also a good practice when looking in that mirror to use this statement–“I’m sorry honey I had no idea I was that stupid.” It does make that day better.

Semper Fi

Mike

[David Petersen]

#24678

You’re a good man, Col. Mike. 😀

[Charles Ek]

#24702

The Boone and Crockett Club established a “Hunt Fair Chase” website several years ago that dealt with these questions. It seems to be pretty moribund these days, but there’s still a Resources list there that might be useful for such discussions.

[Mark Turton]

#26129

‘…any regrets from yesterday?’ No, but I have a few, but too few to mention, I feel a song coming on.

Good reply Col. Mike ‘be true to thine self’ the man ounce said and I guess if you can do that you can look anyone in the eye.

As for allowing folks to die in peace perhaps they had something that modern society finds difficult to accept but might be better for it.

My apologies for wading in, my grandmother would have given me hell for being impolite, welcome to the campfire sir.

Mark.

[garydavis]

#26550

I really like your take on this issue Col. Mike. My wife says one of my traits is that I don’t hesitate to admit when I’m wrong. I may have picked that habit up from my own tour with the Green Machine.

I was right behind R2 as I enlisted in 66 also. As a 17 year old, I was pretty green (oops, pun not intended) and boot camp was scary and confusing, so, I don’t think I got very philosophical until later. I’ve tried to fashion the ethics I adhere to as simply as I could and I’ve found that avoidance of situations that will test my ethical standard is a lot easier than trying to figure out the right thing to do in a sticky situation.

I worked in San Francisco for a while, below Mission St. and there was a ground floor open window a co-worker sat next to. She often copied down what she heard the street people say outside. One fellow said “My ex-wife and her new boyfriend beat me up and stole all my money…man, I’ve got to start hangin’ out with more positive people”.

I’d like to think I’m following his advice by participating here on this forum…well…except maybe for that Petersen fella.(GRIN)

It would have been great to serve under you Col.Mike!

Cheers,

Gary

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