Emergency Gear

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#5281

I thought we had a thread going on this a while back, but I couldn’t find it anywhere, so I figured I’d start this, and show the kit I recently put together.

Obviously, everybody’s needs are different depending on where you live/hunt, but where I live, you can get pretty far off the beaten track, out of cell phone range, and far from outside help pretty easily. Weather can also change very quickly. So when I head into the mountains around here, I like to know I have what I need to keep me going if something happens and I can’t just walk out.

Of course, the challenge with putting together such a kit is keeping it relatively light and easy to pack. I also like to keep such a kit in “ready to go” mode, so that all I have to do is grab it and drop it in my pack and head out the door without having to track down a bunch of random items and make sure I have everything. This is the best solution I’ve come up with so far.

The kit fits into the pouch on the right, which is sized to fit a 32oz. Nalgene bottle. The item on the left is an Emberlit folding stove, which I’ll get to in a minute:

Inside the Camelback pouch, I have a Vargo Ti Bot container (Clay featured this cool piece of kit in one of his videos last year), a SOL emergency bivy, and a little zippered pouch with other essentials:

Items I’m typically carrying inside the zippered pouch:

A couple different types of fire ignition/tinder

Quick energy gel

roll of duct tape

10′ of paracord

Signal mirror

Whistle/compass

Water purification tablets

Tea bags & Cup’O Soup packet (not pictured)

The zippered pouch fits inside the Bot, and the Bot and the bivy both fit inside the Camelback pouch:

Now for the stove – it weighs a mere 5oz. (titanium) and when packed it’s 1/3 the thickness of an issue of TBM. While not an absolutely necessary item, it does allow you to make a very focused, efficient fire for boiling water, etc. much more quickly than just building an open fire, and I feel that it’s so lightweight that it’s worth carrying. The Bot does double-duty as a bottle and a pot, hence the name:

Total weight of this kit, including the stove: 2 lbs.

With this kit, I have shelter, I have several ways to make a fire and boil water, some quick food, and multiple ways to signal my location (the bivy bag is also blaze orange for additional signalling ability/visibility). I also always carry a small 1st Aid kit – not pictured).

It’s so light and compact that I can even fit it inside my haversack, with plenty of room left over for additonal layers, my hunt kit, etc:

I may eventually ditch the Camelback pouch, and sew up a fleece stuff sack instead – lighter weight and a little less bulky.

#@%& can happen out there – what do you carry?

[Doc Nock]

#39130

GREAT description and excellent pictorial, Bruce!

I don’t expect to carry these old bones that far back ‘in’ anywhere, but I do tend to carry whatever I think the day might produce, rather than wishing for it in the truck… course, its not a life threatening situation I face— unless one would panic somehow.

Now…living in TN, could be different. The Cherokee Nat’l Forest just 15 miles south of me peaks out over 3500′, and it’s near straight up and down, now THAT, that could call for some pre-planning if one were to venture far into that country by one’s lonesome.

I have full confidence my bad knee would keep me closer than farther, but once this infernal winter lets go, I hope to go find out!

I hope I can find this when I might want to check back!!!

[Charles Ek]

#39323

Since it’s winter, I’ll list the cold weather kit items, which are packed in a red nylon stuff sack to remind me to bring it:

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Esbit tablet stove and four tablets (like the ‘Hammer’s Emberlit, but not nearly as thin and efficient)

(Allegedly wind proof) matches

Bic lighter

Two PowerBars

Two packets of cider mix

Titanium spork (not for survival, but just in case I bring some food that needs it)

MSR Titanium pot, 1 liter

First aid stuff not worth enumerating here, except to highlight the Combat Application Tourniquet (which actually goes in a pack waistbelt pocket) – http://tinyurl.com/mg6qof9

Something I consider vastly superior to every alternative in the event I’m on the ground waiting for a while, the Blizzard Survival Bag

An extremely loud Storm Whistle – http://www.stormwhistles.com

Backup LED flashlight

Backup compass

Backup cellphone battery

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[Doc Nock]

#39376

You gents are SERIOUS back country types. KUDOS!

Just cause you can get IN there doesn’t mean you will make it out…without some forethought and preparations!

Neat Stuff!

[Ralph]

#39418

Doc Nock wrote: You gents are SERIOUS back country types. KUDOS!

Just cause you can get IN there doesn’t mean you will make it out…without some forethought and preparations!

Neat Stuff!

Yeah Doc, I found this in another publication and I think it relates:

“Untroubled days, to paraphrase Leo Tolstoy’s famous description of all happy families, are similar in their sameness. Each disastrous day is unique in it’s dreadful detail.”

So we we have to be prepared for the disastrous times and you guys have some good stuff lain out for us.

Thanks.

[grumpy]

#39617

Does anybody EVER remember the TP, and a spare diaper.

[Doc Nock]

#39629

Only YOU, Hoss! LMBO…

That’s covered in the FIRE STARTER I think!

As for “diapers”…well, I guess that Depends! 😯

If’n your old enough to use em, then you’re too old to be that far in the back country, perhaps…?

[Charles Ek]

#39664

grumpy wrote: Does anybody EVER remember the TP, and a spare diaper.

The TP is in the unenumerated first aid stuff. Don’t know nuthin’ ’bout no diapers …

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#39753

grumpy wrote: Does anybody EVER remember the TP, and a spare diaper.

Sticks, moss, snow, rocks – there’s usually plenty of TP all around in the outdoors. Properly buried after use, along with everything else of course. 😉

[David Becker]

#39819

It feels like cheating, but we carry a ACR personal locator beacon. My mom got it for us as a wedding present, and I had mixed feelings about right up until we had the baby.

I’m always trying to strike a balance with this stuff. I dig survival skills and bushcraft, but after building my share of debris shelters and bow drill fires, I’ve become a “more I know the more I want to carry kind of guy,” when I consider the fact that one of the things that is liable to put me out in the woods longer than I intended is a lower extremity injury, which makes things like debris shelters much more difficult to build.

Now that I’ve got The Arthritis in my right knee. I’m looking to cut weight. I want one of those Bots!

[Ralph]

#40179

TP? Just remember not to use the leaves that come in clusters of three. 😀

[DK]

#40430

I don’t think anyone should be without an Israeli Bandage. It is for serious cuts and punctures, even a large punctures to the abdomen. They are light and vacuum sealed. Buy two and practice with one. This thing could seriously save your life. Otherwise I carry all the usual stuff crammed in n a BOT.

DK

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#40518

DK wrote: I don’t think anyone should be without an Israeli Bandage. It is for serious cuts and punctures, even a large punctures to the abdomen. They are light and vacuum sealed. Buy two and practice with one.

DK

Good suggestion. Quik-Clot is also a good thing for managing large wounds in the backountry, as are tampons.

Another item I usually have one or two of in my pack are military-grade glow sticks. They are small, weigh almost nothing, and can be a very useful signalling/locating device.

[Charles Ek]

#40539

Wose wrote: … I’ve become a “more I know the more I want to carry kind of guy,” when I consider the fact that one of the things that is liable to put me out in the woods longer than I intended is a lower extremity injury, which makes things like debris shelters much more difficult to build.

This is the scenario that first got me involved in SAR, when I contemplated lying on the ground in the winter in MInnesota. I trained my Newfoundland dog to find me and lie down alongside me. Started thinking about how to put that to use and started a SAR dog unit.

I’d carry a PLB if we were back in the Pacific Northwest or AK. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I’m alone in the woods. (There’s a search underway right now here in NH for a woman who activated a PLB yesterday in the White Mountains. Windchill in the mountains has been running well below -50 ºF for the last couple of days …)

[Steve Capps]

#42887

TP is always in my pack. Makes a great trail marker when tracking wounded game. Highly visible when lining out a sparse bloodtrail and biodegrades after a couple of days. As noted above its a good firestarter. And sometimes you just gotta poop.

[Fallguy]

#43170

Never TP always paper towels. If need to go in a emergency I do not want any TP malfunctions.:lol:

[Etter1]

#45268

I never bury. That involves tools.

1. Pick up large rock

2. Do business at hand

3. Place large rock on business

[grumpy]

#53142

Serious here.

I carry hand/foot/body warmers year round. You can get wet/cold any time of year here.

An old scratched up CD(Beatles) to use as a signal mirror.

Keep in mind that if the butane lighter is cold, it will not work, warm it up in your arm pit. It will work if you shake the water out.

[David Petersen]

#54450

While it’s hardly a sin–in fact it’s arguably a major part of our evolutionary history–we seem to feel that if we have the right hardwear, we can defy death and live forever … rather than understanding that if we have the right outlook, maybe we can at least live today. I’m not real sure what that means in the “big picture,” but it’s my story and I’m sticking with it. In other words, where is the appropriate line between commonsense preparedness, and “gear-headedness”? And nothing really wrong with the latter either, so long as we realize that so often “need” is just a cover for “want.” 😛

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#54503

Personally, I don’t think that having a minimum of “just in case” gear is a bad idea at all, at least where I hunt. I often hunt alone, and there are a number of easily conceivable scenarios that could mean a night out or worse, possibly in winter conditions, and in which it may take anyone a long time to locate me if for some reason I was immobilized.

I would never propose a simplistic premise such as, “if we have the right hardwear, we can defy death.” But on the other hand, the notion of “the more you know, the less you need to carry,” while it has some validity, only gets you so far. The fact is that there are a handful of items that are undeniably useful if you become lost, break an ankle, are forced to spend a night out, etc.

I’ve got my “emergency kit” down to about 1.5 lbs. and it doesn’t take up much space in my pack at all. My whole hunting pack, even for late season, is still well under 25lbs. In fact, even with my normal hunting gear, food/water/layers for the day, and the emergency kit, I can still scarcely fill an 1800 cu. in. day pack. That doesn’t seem like “gear-headedness” to me as much as it seems like prudence and self-responsibility. But we all make our own choices, and live with them (or don’t). I would never presume to tell anyone else what to do…

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#58374

So I’m curious, Dave – where is the line between “comon-sense preparedness and gear-headedness” for you? What emergency gear do you carry for hunting far from outside help? And/or, would you care to offer any constructive feedback about the things that I’m carrying in my kit that you feel may be unecessary?

[TMS]

#58645

I carry much the same gear as Smithhammer and edisvolling year round. My only differences are two bottles of water, two compasses, a map, two blades (one fixed, one locking folder), and my cell phone (turned off in a waterproof case). My total preparedness gear with full bottles weighs in at about 6 pounds. This allows me to be capable of spending a night if necessary, but I would usually prefer to make it out if at all possible. The cell phone often (not always) allows me to communicate by text if nothing else and any little bit can be useful. In the days before cell phones, I came home many nights well after dark and long after my ETA. But I have always gone into the woods (hunting, fishing, or just wandering) with the related thoughts,”Two is one and one is none” and “Be prepared because Murphy is out there too”.

[David Petersen]

#58717

Bruce — I didn’t mean to criticize anyone or anything, per se. My mind works differently than most, I guess, perhaps too often thinking sideways … that is, I have a passion for thinking about why we think what we think. So my comment above, and others on other threads previous and likely in future, was merely meant to reflect a musing on why even the most devoted and traditional hunters today spend far more time, not to mention money–at least from what I can gather from the media, including this site–focused on gear rather than the experience itself. Taking it a step further back, I’ve always been curious about the connection between contemporary human dedication to technology aka gear, and pre-Pleistocene folks obsessed with learning to chip a better stone point. Where did and does the positive side of the human obsession with technology/gear go from good to bad, or has it? So, ever how sloppily, I was attempting to ask an honest question and hoping others perhaps have the same questions, while in no way intentionally criticizing the thread or you or anyone else here … which I had thought I’d clarified via my provisos about the general sensibility of being a good Boy Scout. I was hoping to learn, not to put down others.

Perhaps I should be on a philosophy website rather than a tradbow website … but I am you and us, not them. That is, I’m most interested in people who think a lot like me yet differently. So far as what I carry …

TMS — Good point! You bring up not only “an interesting point” but what I believe is a common psychological reaction among humans, hunters and others, who find them/ourselves facing spooky dusk and knowing we’ll likely be out there all night: a strong preference to get the hell back “home” rather than using our survival gear and skills to stay out safely overnight. My belief has always been that this preference is not so much a concern for our own safety as it is concern for our loved ones. In those instances when I was in that fix, my only real concern, ALWAYS, was that my wife would worry about me, as opposed to a fear of spending a bivouac night in the woods alone. Among the odd “freedoms” I have “gained” by now being a widower is that I have no one at home or elsewhere to give a tinker’s dam about me. Being old enough that I feel I’ve already beat the game, even should I drop dead this moment, is also an “advantage.” Thus, my only real concern with getting stuck out no longer exists. Which is not to say that I feel reckless, but only that the game has changed notably. So for me at least you hit the “survival” nail on its slippery head.

Back to Bruce — My lifelong bottom-line philosophic concern–which drives all my weird questions and comments here and elsewhere is the question: How do we deal with death, both our own and that of all other living beings, without letting it lead us into self-delusion, which is the standard easy way out? This question, and my attempts to use my own experiences and feelings about killing animals as a reference point for my thinking about the death of my wife and my own pending, is a primary theme in “the film” as well, though I have no idea how effectively it comes across.

And danged if I know what any of that means to anyone else, as I’m not real sure myself. Yet that’s what happens when you ask old Elkfart a seemingly straightforward question.

Please ignore me and carry on …

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#58827

Thank for the explanation, Dave. I think my perspective on this topic was far more pragmatic than philosophical.

However, I would posit that hunters (though not exclusively) have always paid meticulous attention to the importance of proper equipment, since the dawn of time – this is evidenced from Otzi to the Rocky Mountain fur trappers of the 19th century, to at least some of us today. Having the proper gear was obviously important to them – they clearly made their gear decisions carefully, and took good care of what they carried. I don’t confuse this with being a “gear head,” which is simply gear fetishism for the sake of itself. I place it squarely within the realm of understanding the real-world factors we subject ourselves to in remote places, and taking responsibility for ourselves.

I would also suggest that the notion of paying attention to the “experience” is a relatively recent idea, if not a luxury.

[David Petersen]

#58842

So, we are free to speak of applies and oranges without comparing them; fair enough. Well then, over on the pragmatic side, I now realize “gear head” is a shortcut and misleading ballpark term. More precisely, it strikes me that in hunting, as with most of life today, we often and understandably come to confuse “collecting stuff we must fabricate justifications for having,” with what is truly “needed.” The old “wants become needs” conundrum. I guess at some point this disappoints me, though my typing fingers are too tired to tap it all out and no one really cares anyhow. Bottom line is that for me it’s not an argument, but merely an investigation. “I haven’t said enough; I’ve already said too much.” I’m most happy to continue the conversation in person if you’ll be at Spokane this weekend … and esp. if you’re buying the booze. 😆

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#58870

Dave –

Unfortunately, I won’t be able to make the trek to Spokane this year. I wish you the best with the screening of your film, and look forward to seeing it some day.

But I will add just one more thought on the ‘philosophical’ side, before returning this to what was intended to be a pragmatic thread:

We may love to draw convenient lines between our ‘needs’ and our ‘wants,’ but I don’t think it’s always so clear-cut. Certain things clearly fall strictly into the ‘want’ category (such as my craving for Reese’s peanut butter cups…), and there are also many things we may convince ourselves we ‘need’ but don’t, really. On the other hand, there are the things I want to have with me in the backcountry, which may very well turn into things I need if something goes wrong. These things can easily seem superfluous until that moment.

Regardless, if/when I’m lost or injured deep in the backcountry, I want to have several different ways to signal to help someone find me. If I’m becoming hypothermic and can’t hike out for some reason, I both want and need to get a fire going, and do so quickly. But rest assured – in those moments, parsing the semantics between my supposed ‘needs’ and mere ‘wants’ will be low on my “to do” list. 😉

[Col Mike]

#58982

Still traveling with Lin in search of the perfect boat and connections are iffy–but got on tonight and couldn’t help responding to this discussion.

I will tell Bruce and Dave that I just chuckled over all that.

One time long ago in a far away place I did a patrol that lasted for over 4 months –gear was what you wore and your weapon and little else–most of the stuff was rotted off my body when it was over.And then followed a lengthy recon of the AK pipeline with Eskimo scouts via dogsled,helicopter,snow machine,ATV, and walking. In later years I carried the best stuff you could buy. And now I carry the least I can–some have asked–no gun–well I don’t need one. And I quit collecting stuff some time ago and enjoy a multi day hike with what I carry in my 1945 map case-some would call a possibles bag.

Now Bruce gives great gear reviews–I bought the bino’s he recommended and Dave has some great thoughts for consideration. Not sure what point I’m trying to make –except that we all have to make decisions before we head out–and for some us the less you carry the more you know.

Again– what a great site and discussion–more later when we weather this latest storm and try to get back for Turkey!:D

Semper Fi

Mike

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#59380

colmike wrote:

I will tell Bruce and Dave that I just chuckled over all that.

I’m glad to hear that, Mike. And thanks for not taking any of this too seriously.

Safe travels and know that your input has been missed around here.

cheers,

– B

[grumpy]

#60052

Miss you Mike!!

[Doc Nock]

#60596

very interesting read… As long as we’re introducing terms, I see the original post also as “pragmatic” and some of the counter as more “nostalgic” — meaning a desire for simpler ways and times.

Bows of the LIttle Delta infuses one with the stark reality that those boys did with very little, but what they took and had along, were what was then available. Sneakers to walk across glacial melt rivers!? 😯 Better men then I.

I was at a meeting once, recounting an upcoming hog hunt to a fellow hunter… for wild hogs. He questioned my weapon, explained it was a simple stick and string…

A quick witted lady nearby over heard and turned to ask me, “Good Lord, Boy! You going to just wear a loincloth, too?”

As I’ve aged, and physical abilities start to wane, I tend to be more cautious of where I go and how I do so. I see the limitations imposed by aging physical ability and genetic decline.

I love to commune with nature… and have done so in some rather stalwart ways at times, and vowed, “next time I’ll have…”

Living in MT, I got caught in a freak snowstorm in early Sept… soaked in minutes and we built a fire to dry our wool clothing… Mt men were of stout stock…survival of the fittest weeded out the weak. Most of us are not quite tested to those levels and we KNOW it, dont you think??

Pragmatic preparedness seems to be good sense. I read of a chap in the high country got caught in a blizzard… made some willow branch snow shoes and laced with strips cut from his truck mats, the truck now a worthless 4×4 mired in many feet of snow…he walked out.

Gear will never replace commonsense, woods craft and a calm demeanor in the face of impending disaster…but the right gear, tested and applied, may make the experience a memorable one rather then an epitaph!

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#60623

Lots of good thoughts there, Doc. It’s a little-known fact in our romanticizing of the “mountain men” that very few of them did it for more than a few years – for one reason or another. We tend to have this idea of these guys “heading West and spending the rest of their lives trapping and living a wild, self-sufficient lifestyle, etc” but the truth is that most didn’t last – many either perished or gained a newfound appreciation for all the amenities and the easier lifestyle they had left behind.

But that’s a tangent. I suppose that in starting this thread with posting my emergency gear, rather than starting the thread by talking about mentality and skills, I may have given the wrong impression. It always begins with the right mentality, and obviously skills are essential. I would never suggest someone simply run out and buy an armload of emergency gear, throw it in their pack and head off into the mountains. That would be an example of extreme folly. And any choices one makes about what gear to carry should be based on firsthand experience and skills practice. If you decide to carry a firesteel, then go out on a windy, cold, wet day and practice making fires in realistic conditions with it. If you carry one of those little emergency “space” blankets, try spending a night out in it and see if it will actually work for you. Never just go off of someone else’s recommendations of what you should carry.

As the old saying goes, “Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance,” and many emergency situations in the backcountry can be avoided simply with smart planning beforehand. And when the unforeseen happens anyway once you’re out there, it’s good to remember that it only becomes an emergency situation if you haven’t prepared for it – an “emergency” for someone who is unprepared may simply be a mildly uncomfortable experience for the smart backcountry traveler. And for that reason, I’m more than happy to carry 1.5 lbs. of additional weight in my pack, along with my knowledge and skills.

[Doc Nock]

#60660

I read thru all the posts again today, having excused myself based on first hand knowledge that my “emergency and/or “back country” days are likely behind me.

But an emergency, as you put it, can meet us along the more mundane of trails and become trials if not prepared.

I also admire Dave P’s views on many things. He reminds me of Edward Abby’s writings of yore…the pursuit of pure.

AS you both suggested, somewhere between lies what each man must question and then adopt.

Heck, even in the north woods of PA, guys get dead every few years, with a string of gear, guns, clothing strung out as they run aimlessly thru the mountains in total panic because they’re “lost” only to succumb to the elements when temps drop at night… Gear won’t save you if you panic!

I did not know that about Mountain Men… but I think we agree they either learned, adapted, adopted or perished… some reading I did suggests many took up Native American wives and lived with the Indians, too… Still harsh, but not sleeping in caves!

[Ralph]

#60699

Yup and yup and yup to all the discussions above.

There’s always going to be the “Why am I carrying all this *&@# and why didn’t I bring that *%#@”. Just how we are.

If your brain turns to mush though you can go down with or without a pocket full of tools.

So like it’s said, “To each man his own poison” when it comes to what you carry.

Hey Doc, those teepees probably a mite more warm you s’pose? Perhaps not as peaceful though.:wink:

[Doc Nock]

#60739

Dunno about the tpee, Ralph, but a friend in MT rented one to live in…with the inner wall, it was warm in winter and cool in summer… with adjusting the top flaps.

As for peaceful, depends on who ya got with, eh?:oops:

I’d not recommend trying to pack one along as emergency gear though… 😯

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#60740

AND, it obviously depends greatly on where one is. If I’m walking a 1/2 mile into a tree stand, or hunting a few acres of land, I’m obviously not carrying what I’ve just outlined. And if I’m in the desert rather than the northern Rockies, my choices may vary. But my typical local hunting situation means often not being in cell phone range, in some of the more remote, large-predator populated country still left in the lower 48. Not saying that to make a ‘big deal’ about it by any means, just stating a fact to help explain my choices – it should always be context dependent.

[Ralph]

#60786

Where I hunt you have to add water to your list. Matters not what filter or purification tabs you carry, they don’t work with dirt and rocks.

It’s good to have something though cause you might be lucky and find a windmill with a stock tank.

Doc, it was Josie that asked “Don’t s..:wink:.ever shut up?” wasn’t it.

[Doc Nock]

#60797

R2 wrote:

Doc, it was Josie that asked “Don’t s..:wink:.ever shut up?” wasn’t it.

Outlaw Josie Wales to Chief Dan George re the Navho gal from the trading post…

Great line…great movie!

Now back to the finer aspects of “It Depends” regarding where/how and what you hunt as to survival gear…

[grumpy]

#61144

Whenever I think of Mountain Men I think about the guy that broke his legs, froze, and hoped a white man got his Hawkins.

[Carl Brickey]

#61153

“Didn’t lay down enough dirt Pilgrim, saw it right off.” 😆

On gear though, I usually always have a small stuff sack with fire stuff a space blanket, extra knife, and poncho, but as I’m walking out the door to go on a night time walleye escapade, I seem to have misplaced it….:roll:

[Ralph]

#61157

Grumpy, that was Hatchet Jack’s Hawkens.

When it comes to the having it together in a survival situation the story of Hugh Glass would be pretty hard to top.

He had no emergency gear except a burning will to live.

[Doc Nock]

#61186

Don’t forget to call on one of those nighttime escapades, Carl!

Walleye are good eats!

[Etter1]

#61229

Back here in GA the furthest I am ever from a road while hunting is about 6 miles. That would be either bear hunting in September or turkey hunting in the spring. Either way, the weather is not terrible worrisome (to say the least) and water can be found within a mile of anywhere. All I ever carry survival-wise is a compass, two lighters, and a ziplock full of cotton balls dipped in vaseline.

If I were hunting out west, I would want more.

[Charles Ek]

#62329

Two things drive the choice of items on my list above – a lifetime of spending days and nights alone in the woods in climates where Ma Nature does her best to do you in during the months with an “r” in them, and a somewhat shorter period looking for folks in those same places who were overdue for some reason.

Having someone waiting for your return does influence your thinking about this. I wouldn’t give the notion of a PLB a second thought but for that.

[Ptaylor]

#62965

I think its good to be prepared, but the right mindset can make or break the situation no matter what you carry. When I was teaching survival skills, we would take groups of Waldorf students out for a week in the woods. The first year, we would build a debris hut and one person a night got to sleep in it. The following year we all slept in one big debris hut.

Anyway, we tell the teenagers, if they get up to pee at night and can’t find camp, just sit down and wait for dawn. Instead of walking around at night. So one night this gal stepped out of the debris hut to pee, took 10 steps and couldn’t see camp when she turned around! So she just crouched down with hands in her armpits, leaned her head against a tree, and fell asleep! In the morning she was 20 yards from the shelter, and thankfully had not wandered off.

If she had panicked it could have been a different story.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#63061

Ptaylor wrote: I think its good to be prepared, but the right mindset can make or break the situation no matter what you carry.

Absolutely. In my mind, both are important, and even more so the worse the conditions are. It’s one thing on a mild Sept. evening, it’s another when it’s 0deg. F. and you’re looking at a night out (or several) with 3 feet of snow on the ground and more on the way. The right gear won’t get you anywhere without the right skills and the right mentality, but the reverse can be just as true in serious conditions – the best mentality in the world might not get you through it if you don’t have a few essentials with you as well.

On the subject of exploring survival ‘mentality’ there is a book I found pretty thought-provoking written by Lawrence Gonzales – “Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why.” It’s not your typical “survival” book at all, instead it’s a look at numerous real-world surivors of a bunch of different life/death scenarios, and the character traits (or mentality) that got them out of it. Recommended for anyone interested in the subject.

[TMS]

#7675

Mr. Petersen, you are correct in my reasoning behind carrying the gear that I do. It makes my wife feel better about me being “alone” in the woods. And she is also the reason I have the desire to get back home after dark. When I have planned a multi-day trip in advance, there is no worry.

I also agree with eidsvolling in that my choice to carry some gear is directly proportional to the many hours I have spent looking for a completely unprepared hunter as a SAR volunteer. It is almost certain that when we turn out to look for a lost hunter, the only gear they have is weapon, ammo, license, and cell phone. Even when lost, a small amount of gear can make all the difference in getting found again.

[Charles Ek]

#7779

TMS wrote: It is almost certain that when we turn out to look for a lost hunter, the only gear they have is weapon, ammo, license, and cell phone. Even when lost, a small amount of gear can make all the difference in getting found again.

I used to say in WA that “there oughta be a law” that elk hunters be required to post a bond as a condition of getting a license. If you’re found wearing blue jeans when you’re overdue and we come looking for you, you forfeit the bond. 🙄

[codger]

#8762

I wear a camo belt with pouches and carry some first aid equip, compass, a couple of those foil type emercency blankets,limb saw, gerber multi tool, a small fishing kit minus a pole, some trail marker ribbon, granola or garanola bars, Matches waterproof and a fire starter flint and steel a small canteen. this is for day trips only and i usually carry a bow quiver with six arrows on my long bowand a skinnign knife. if im just wandering or scouting not hunting i carry the same stuff but also carry my back quiver.

[David Coulter]

#9038

Dave and Smith, I appreciate your tangents, if you want to call them that. The philosophy of all this is the part that makes it interesting. If we all just did it one way just because that’s the way it always worked, and thought one way just because that’s the way we always thought, it sure would be less interesting. Don’t think for a minute that these ramblings go off into thin are, unless that’s the air between my ears! Keep the challenges coming. Smithy, thanks cor starting this thread. You’ve shown some neat tools and neat ways to use them. Best, dwc

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#11991

This was posted on the forum last year, but I thought it would be appropriate to add here as well. I honestly hadn’t watched this video since it first came out, so it was interesting to compare with the kit I’ve put together more recently, and in light of this discussion.

Clay’s perspective on emergency gear:

http://youtu.be/76Krs_uDFQY

“It doesn’t matter what you have in your pack, if you don’t have the knowledge to use it…” – CH

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#12010

dwcphoto wrote: Dave and Smith, I appreciate your tangents, if you want to call them that. The philosophy of all this is the part that makes it interesting. If we all just did it one way just because that’s the way it always worked, and thought one way just because that’s the way we always thought, it sure would be less interesting. Don’t think for a minute that these ramblings go off into thin are, unless that’s the air between my ears! Keep the challenges coming. Smithy, thanks cor starting this thread. You’ve shown some neat tools and neat ways to use them. Best, dwc

Thanks, David. This topic has certainly generated more interesting discussion than I anticipated.

Honestly, my only goal for this thread is not to talk about ‘gear’ per se (though I see nothing wrong with that, nor with exchanging ideas about gear that works), but to encourage conscious thought of the situations we put ourselves in as backcountry hunters, the possibilities of what can happen and how to be intelligently prepared. Obviously, those things will vary for all of us depending on our respective situations, experience levels, etc but ultimately, I see this is a pretty pragmatic topic, and I’m still wondering – what are we ‘philosophizing’ about? At the end of the day, I think philosophy is good fun from the comfort of the armchair, but it won’t keep you from getting hypothermic on an un-planned, sub-freezing night out.

😉

[Col Mike]

#12514

Bruce

You do say it well.:D Stay safe out there.

Mike

[David Coulter]

#15463

Smith, the philosophy is in the thought of who thi ks what is needed and in that the difference between needs and wants. It could either leave you feeling over burdened or cold and wet.

Personally, I like to read about the items for preparation. I’ve always been guilty of carrying too much stuff and still on occasion being wet! dwc

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#20006

dwcphoto wrote: Smith, the philosophy is in the thought of who thi ks what is needed and in that the difference between needs and wants. It could either leave you feeling over burdened or cold and wet.

Personally, I like to read about the items for preparation. I’ve always been guilty of carrying too much stuff and still on occasion being wet! dwc

I agree David, and I do think that the “philosophy” behind what we carry, and why, is certainly interesting. In fact, it’s part of the reason I started this thread to begin with – to get us all to think about this topic. Where I guess this conversation lost me was in there being the suggestion of ‘philosophy” without including useful specifics that the rest of us could learn from. For example, if someone feels that my philosophy on emergency gear is different than theirs (something that shouldn’t be surprising), and that what we choose to carry reflects that philosophy, then I would love to hear the specifics of why they choose a different approach, and what they choose to carry instead.

[Fallguy]

#20874

This topic has took off since I last looked at it. Dave I very much enjoy your thought provoking philosophical musing. And you did illuminate the major reason most get concerned when stuck out on an unplanned overnight outing. “FAMILY” I have taught the “What If” section of the Bowhunter Ed classes where we talk about what to carry with you encase of emergency. My first question to the class is, What do you call sleeping outside in the woods? The answer is usually “Camping”. Then I ask how many in the class have gone camping. All hands are raised. I then ask why panic if you have to spend the night in the woods if you all have been camping? They then list concerns, rain, snow, cold, family ,lost. And of course lions, tigers, bears oh my. I then try to go over what they have with them that can serve dual purposes. And minimize the amount of stuff they carry. My final advice is to ” Pack your brain not the bag”

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#22369

Collected some pine resin today while on a hike, to supplement to my fire-making kit. Toss some of this on some dry shavings and it will burn hot and long.

[Stephen Smiley]

#24331

Smith, I love that little knife. I also collected some pine pitch this winter and some birch bark to supplement my fire starting kit. I got reacquainted with birch this past fall hunting moose in northern Quebec. We started our fire every night with birch bark, worked like a charm even though we had rain every day.

[David Becker]

#24639

Smithhammer wrote: Collected some pine resin today while on a hike, to supplement to my fire-making kit. Toss some of this on some dry shavings and it will burn hot and long.

That’s a good looking knife. I like the handle to blade ratio.

I have in the back of my mind, that when I finally leave the crazy rat race of a job I’m in, I’m going to gift myself with a nice longbow and a nice handmade knife. The Sage and my ESEE are very practical, but the lack a certain something…

[David Petersen]

#25536

Gents, I frankly chose the wrong thread to post my frustrations about contemporary outdoors folk seeming more interested in gear than the more substantive aspects of hunting and other traditional-values outdoor activities. To see “gear-headedness” grow in popularity on tradbow.com, of all places, disappoints and bores me. But that’s my problem … I can simply go read a good book or take a walk in the woods rather than stare at the computer. And more and more that’s what I’m doing. The topic of survival gear, like the topic of what we need to carry in order to be able to deal respectfully with the meat we produce (I am constantly amazed and angered at the number of hunters who are woefully unprepared, both with gear and skills, to deal with the produce of a “hunt of a lifetime” when they’re otherwise richly equipped) … these are the most appropriate areas for thoughtful gear selection. Still, overall, I believe that over-attention to things we buy rather than the things we do and think, is among the many ways modern culture and marketing distract us (very profitably for the distractors) from the more substantive aspects of hunting, outdoor adventure, and life, trivializing it all. But this is the wrong thread to have dumped that line of thought into. Sorry to have inappropriately detoured you. I stand beside what I said, but I said it in the wrong place.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#25584

I can’t say that I ever imagined such an innocuous topic, and one that some of us were enjoying, could become so odd, or filled with so many thinly-veiled criticisms conveniently couched in “I’m not really critcizing, I’m just philosophizing” excuses.

I will however respond to the observation that, “to see gear-headedness” grow in popularity on tradbow.com, of all places, disappoints and bores me.” I don’t see it at all. I continue to see a broad range of topics pertinent to bow hunting being enthusiastically and positively discussed on this forum. And I think you’re cherry-picking this particular thread as your outlet, for some reason that I would guess really has to do with other things. There are things that may “disappoint and bore me” as well, Dave. But rather than continually jousting at them, I choose to simply put my attention and efforts elsewhere, and instead post on the topics that I’m enjoying. I don’t come on this forum to raise my blood pressure – I come on here to have fun and share thoughts and ideas with others who enjoy trad bows and hunting as much as i do. There’s plenty of room for all of it.

I wish you the best, Dave. And respectfully, I’ll leave it at that.

[David Becker]

#25586

David Petersen wrote: Gents, I frankly chose the wrong thread to post my frustrations about contemporary outdoors folk seeming more interested in gear than the more substantive aspects of hunting and other traditional-values outdoor activities. To see “gear-headedness” grow in popularity on tradbow.com, of all places, disappoints and bores me. But that’s my problem … I can simply go read a good book or take a walk in the woods rather than stare at the computer. And more and more that’s what I’m doing. The topic of survival gear, like the topic of what we need to carry in order to be able to deal respectfully with the meat we produce (I am constantly amazed and angered at the number of hunters who are woefully unprepared, both with gear and skills, to deal with the produce of a “hunt of a lifetime” when they’re otherwise richly equipped) … these are the most appropriate areas for thoughtful gear selection. Still, overall, I believe that over-attention to things we buy rather than the things we do and think, is among the many ways modern culture and marketing distract us (very profitably for the distractors) from the more substantive aspects of hunting, outdoor adventure, and life, trivializing it all. But this is the wrong thread to have dumped that line of thought into. Sorry to have inappropriately detoured you. I stand beside what I said, but I said it in the wrong place.

Mr. Peterson,

I actually really appreciated your input, though I get where you are coming from with your apology.

This thread has frequently been in the back of my mind lately. Picking up the bow is a link in a chain I’ve been following for the last few years, that is leading me in a direction of changing my relationship with the real world (often referred to as “nature”), the land around me, and myself.

I spent most of my adult life in occupations where my number one goal everyday was “don’t get killed.” It’s very hard not to carry that energy into the woods with me, although I find when get away from that energy, I’m a happier person.

For example, I have habitually carried a handgun in the woods, mostly out of habit. I’ve just now started to reconsider that, and I’m surprised at how much that idea makes me uncomfortable. My weariness of violence is starting to outweigh my wariness of violence.

Also, despite my smugness in how I avoid advertising and consumerism, I can still be a gear head, and I have to watch that.

I also think it’s much easier to talk about gear on an internet forum that to talk about some of these deeper things, particularly for those of us who don’t have your gift for turning introspection into language. This thread has inspired some heavy thinking on my part, which up until now I’ve resisted even trying to put into words.

It’s much easier to say “hey that’s a cool knife.”

So thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy those books and walks in the woods, but I sure appreciate it when you, and some of the other folks on here, drop some wisdom on us. You’re several steps farther down the same trail I’m walking.

Regards,

David

[Ralph]

#25595

When I look at the title of this thread I think “Gonna be something here to put in my pocket to help me out in a jam”.

It sure is a long ways from that thinking now.

[David Becker]

#25609

That’s a fair point.

Sometimes conversations on internet fora take a left turn.

Maybe that’s the point where they are best spun off into a different thread?

[skinner biscuit]

#25651

Emergency gear……space blanket,fire starter,water filter straw,blood clot bandage. I read in the paper a few years back about a Washington archer who had the misfortune of getting stuck in the rear end ( on a stalk)by his buddy ,bleeding out before the paramedics arrived..Used them, never!Peace of mind,absolutely!On a side note :I ditched the hydration bladder in my backpack and went back to a flask.Keep my water at the truck.

[Col Mike]

#25792

Wose wrote: [quote=David Petersen]Gents, I frankly chose the wrong thread to post my frustrations about contemporary outdoors folk seeming more interested in gear than the more substantive aspects of hunting and other traditional-values outdoor activities. To see “gear-headedness” grow in popularity on tradbow.com, of all places, disappoints and bores me. But that’s my problem … I can simply go read a good book or take a walk in the woods rather than stare at the computer. And more and more that’s what I’m doing. The topic of survival gear, like the topic of what we need to carry in order to be able to deal respectfully with the meat we produce (I am constantly amazed and angered at the number of hunters who are woefully unprepared, both with gear and skills, to deal with the produce of a “hunt of a lifetime” when they’re otherwise richly equipped) … these are the most appropriate areas for thoughtful gear selection. Still, overall, I believe that over-attention to things we buy rather than the things we do and think, is among the many ways modern culture and marketing distract us (very profitably for the distractors) from the more substantive aspects of hunting, outdoor adventure, and life, trivializing it all. But this is the wrong thread to have dumped that line of thought into. Sorry to have inappropriately detoured you. I stand beside what I said, but I said it in the wrong place.

Mr. Peterson,

I actually really appreciated your input, though I get where you are coming from with your apology.

This thread has frequently been in the back of my mind lately. Picking up the bow is a link in a chain I’ve been following for the last few years, that is leading me in a direction of changing my relationship with the real world (often referred to as “nature”), the land around me, and myself.

I spent most of my adult life in occupations where my number one goal everyday was “don’t get killed.” It’s very hard not to carry that energy into the woods with me, although I find when get away from that energy, I’m a happier person.

For example, I have habitually carried a handgun in the woods, mostly out of habit. I’ve just now started to reconsider that, and I’m surprised at how much that idea makes me uncomfortable. My weariness of violence is starting to outweigh my wariness of violence.

Also, despite my smugness in how I avoid advertising and consumerism, I can still be a gear head, and I have to watch that.

I also think it’s much easier to talk about gear on an internet forum that to talk about some of these deeper things, particularly for those of us who don’t have your gift for turning introspection into language. This thread has inspired some heavy thinking on my part, which up until now I’ve resisted even trying to put into words.

It’s much easier to say “hey that’s a cool knife.”

So thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy those books and walks in the woods, but I sure appreciate it when you, and some of the other folks on here, drop some wisdom on us. You’re several steps farther down the same trail I’m walking.

Regards,

David

David W

Ignoring the discussion above for a moment I was intrigued by your comment of your daily goal “don’t get killed” having spent most of my life saying ” when they are not shooting at you it’s a great day” we may have something to talk about. Don’t use this PM my e-mail is herdering@earthlink.net. if you desire.

Dave P and Bruce’s interchanges are really intended to make you think. One of the nice things about this site is we really don’t beat anybody up even if they are way out there.:D

Welcome aboard–and leave the handgun at home–you don’t need it in the woods.8)

Semper Fi

Mike

[Brennan Herr]

#25978

I enjoy both SH’s and Dave’s as well as everyone elses different views on gear and what is needed or not. I also find myself being gear driven. Comes from my old ways of hunting. So I am always interested on what people use and if the items are quility. But I value the side of less is more and I try to follow that philosophy, if not very well.

And Mike leaving the gun at home is much easier said then done!!!

Thanks for keeping the brain working.

[Doc Nock]

#25992

Leaving the gun at home is an interesting view, Mike.

After living with one for a living, I can see where NOT wanting to carry one would be enticing to you.

folks that hunt the SW where the smugglers bring in illegal drugs and people, it could mean life or death to have or not have one along…not all predators are 4 legged!

Moving to TN, our state regs booklet has a 1 page ad about Meth Labs and warns if you see ‘junk’ strewn about, GET OUT! as it could be a Meth Lab nearby in the hills.

I’ve been told about nearby places that if I go to hunt, get my arse OUT before dusk, or I might not get out at all! 😯

I take such things seriously especially in new country where things are not as I once knew. When it comes to a personal protection piece, I’d say like adult diapers, “It Depends!” I no longer believe in panaceas…

[David Becker]

#27675

colmike wrote:

David W

Ignoring the discussion above for a moment I was intrigued by your comment of your daily goal “don’t get killed” having spent most of my life saying ” when they are not shooting at you it’s a great day” we may have something to talk about. Don’t use this PM my e-mail is herdering@earthlink.net. if you desire.

Dave P and Bruce’s interchanges are really intended to make you think. One of the nice things about this site is we really don’t beat anybody up even if they are way out there.:D

Welcome aboard–and leave the handgun at home–you don’t need it in the woods.8)

Semper Fi

Mike

ColMike,

Message on the way…..

Thanks for the welcome, and the invite to chat.

Regards,

David

[Ralph]

#27723

Doc Nock wrote: Leaving the gun at home is an interesting view, Mike.

folks that hunt the SW where the smugglers bring in illegal drugs and people, it could mean life or death to have or not have one along…not all predators are 4 legged!

…

The main game in any survival situation is confidence in yourself and that begins with the knowledge of having with you what you need.

Like Steve says, your brain being the most important.

People die without and with everything they could possibly needed.

I stand with Doc on having a weapon.

There’s people in my country who don’t belong here and don’t wanna go back where they came from. I’m also liable to be out stumping or snooping and come across an old pump jack or gas well site that is someone’s meth lab.

My old legs probably ain’t going to outrun those folks.

My pistol is a whole lot more comforting than a quiver full of blunt tipped arrows.

That’s a carry with me along with something to build a fire, something to help shelter me from the wind and ?rain?.:), knives, rope, munchies.

[wojo14]

#30216

brennanherr wrote: I enjoy both SH’s and Dave’s as well as everyone elses different views on gear and what is needed or not. I also find myself being gear driven. Comes from my old ways of hunting. So I am always interested on what people use and if the items are quility. But I value the side of less is more and I try to follow that philosophy, if not very well.

And Mike leaving the gun at home is much easier said then done!!!

Thanks for keeping the brain working.

Well said Brennan.

As always, thanks for keeping me on my toes!8)

[Author]

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