EFOC with Wood?

[Markh]

#3665

For the last week I have had my nose buried in this site. It seems like the more I read the less I know. I love it and it frustrates the heck out of me all at the same time. I have had to re-think everything I “Knew” about arrows. As of right now I am shooting Cedar shaft with a 5″ feathers and a 125gr Woodsman. I thought my set up was the BOMB! Now I think I need a heavier arrow, a different broadhead and less helical.

My questions are: Can I get EFOC with Wood? I am thinking about trying some Ash shafts to pick up some weight and moving to a 200gr Grizzly broadhead. My bow is right at 50# at my 26 1/2″ draw length.
Arrow tuning? From what I understand with bare shaft tuning I looking at knock, shaft and tip,then cutting til I get good arrow flight? Normally I buy 45-50# spine cedar. should I go up in spine with the Ash? The heavier broadhead effects the spine of the shaft? Yes/No? And with arrow tuning….do I cut and tune each shaft? Will I end up with various length arrows? If I sound like a rambling idot…forgive me, One day I will catch up with the rest of the class 🙂

Thanks for all the great reading and info so far.

Mark

[Buzzard]

#22723

Ok Mark, i’ve been down this creek before, so here goes.
EFOC with wood, probably not. My experiments with woody weights and pine shafts trying EXTREME foc didn’t work at all, blew spine weights out of the water.
Going to a heavier wood such as ash of douglas fir is a great idea.
Bare shaft tuning would be a good idea, even though i don’t bother with it.
Going up in spine has to do with the heavier broadhead, yes, not because of a different wood type. I’d go 10#s heavier on spine to offset the 200gr heads. NOTE: recurves are much more forgiving of spine than longbows. Now, you can take it from there. Buzzard

[Fletcher]

#25150

EFOC is quite doable with wood arrows, you just need to figure for it. Balancing weight forward is best done with a lightweight shaft like Sitka Spruce or POC, and a heavy point like the 200 gr Grizz you mentioned. However you do it, the added weight up front will weaken the dynamic spine of the shaft so you will need to start with a stiffer static spine. If you are going from a 125 to a 200 gr point, add about 10 lbs static spine. I have wood arrows for my 54 lb longbow that weigh around 610 grains, have 21% FOC that paper tune and shoot great. Yes, it can be done.

If you are just wanting a heavy arrow, ash shafting is a workable option. If you are wanting to increase FOC, stay with a lighter shaft. Ash is very tough, but I believe you will find fir, sitka or POC to make a much better shooting arrow, and the extra FOC will make them shoot and perform even better.

[Markh]

#25581

Thank you for the info. I am shooting tapered cedar and some parallel Sitka now. I was goofing around in my shop and was trying to add weight to tapered cedar. I took some 22ga steel wire and wrapped about 45″ of wire tightly around the shaft just behind the broadhead. It did add about 40gr of weight. I have read a bunch of negative stuff on here about Woodie Weights and Dave said something about the old Bodkin points. So I got to thinkin about a sleeve behind the point. Wire was the easiest sleeve to make on the spot. Anyone try wire wraps or a metal sleeve in the past? I did shoot this arrow. It was getting dark and I only shot it about 10 yards….seemed ok.

Mark

[Bounty Hunter]

#29328

How I add or subtract weight on my wood shafts is by using at center jig and drill out some of the wood. If you remove some from both ends and then insert an nail or other piece of metal rod in the point end you can quickly change your FoC. Leaving the empty whole on the nock end does not affect how strong the shaft is either. Here is a picture of the jig and you can order them from 3Rivers.

[David Petersen]

#32935

Bounty Hunter — this is precisely the jig I could never once drill a straight hole with and finally threw away. How do you make it work? dave p

[Bounty Hunter]

#34069

David Petersen wrote: Bounty Hunter — this is precisely the jig I could never once drill a straight hole with and finally threw away. How do you make it work? dave p

You have to set it up in a drill press. The jig is just used as a centering tool and will not aid you in drilling a straight hole free hand. I bought a cheaper drill press and made modifications to it and my bench so the arrow shaft can be inserted and clamped in place from below. I used JB Weld to afix the jig to the press. In other words this is the only use for the press.

[David Petersen]

#35308

Aha!

[sorno]

#42686

Fletcher wrote: EFOC is quite doable with wood arrows, you just need to figure for it… I have wood arrows for my 54 lb longbow that weigh around 610 grains, have 21% FOC that paper tune and shoot great. Yes, it can be done.
….

Hey Rick,
Would you mind sharing that ‘formula’ for your arrow? I also shoot a 54# bow and just can’t seem to find a wood shaft light enough (but w/ heavy enough spine) to make the numbers work…
S.

[Fletcher]

#43335

For sure, Sorno. The bow is a 54 lb @ 26″ Pronghorn TD longbow cut about 1/8″ out from center. It normally shoots a tapered 50-54 lb fir shaft, 28″ with a 160 gr point. My EFOC arrows are lightweight tapered 70 lb spine sitka spruce shafts, 28″ BOP with 50 grains of lead wire up the nose and a 190 gr VPA Terminator 3 blade. Total arrow weight is 610-620 grains. I could have tuned to a 27″ arrow by dropping a few lbs spine and picked up a bit more FOC.

Wood arrows are more FOC limited than carbon and maybe even aluminum, but you can usually pick up a fair bit. Long arrows and high draw weights add to the limitations.

What are your regular arrow specs?

[sorno]

#43763

Fletcher wrote: For sure, Sorno. The bow is a 54 lb @ 26″ Pronghorn TD longbow cut about 1/8″ out from center. It normally shoots a tapered 50-54 lb fir shaft, 28″ with a 160 gr point. My EFOC arrows are lightweight tapered 70 lb spine sitka spruce shafts, 28″ BOP with 50 grains of lead wire up the nose and a 190 gr VPA Terminator 3 blade. Total arrow weight is 610-620 grains. I could have tuned to a 27″ arrow by dropping a few lbs spine and picked up a bit more FOC.

Wood arrows are more FOC limited than carbon and maybe even aluminum, but you can usually pick up a fair bit. Long arrows and high draw weights add to the limitations.

What are your regular arrow specs?

Thanks Rick! That gives me something to work with.

I’m shooting a 54# @ 28 Black Widow SA. I draw to 28, so needing a 29-29.5″ arrow is going to limit me somewhat. Also, w/ the bow being cut past center, I need a stiffer arrow than just the draw weight alone would predict. I am new to this and I have a whole conglomeration of shafts that I shoot into targets. Some extra heavy barrel tapered hickories, some heavier POC, some lighter POC, you know, pretty much anything I could find to try my new fletching tool on for a while… For hunting, I currently shoot a 70# parallel POC w/ a 145 gr. Eclipse head. The total arrow weight on those is comparable to your FOC set up. I do need to explore into the fir and spruce arenas.
S.

[Fletcher]

#44390

If your 70 lb cedars tune well you are in luck. Sitka spruce spine generally maxes out around 80 lb, but that gives you another ten pounds meaning you could move up to 190-200 gr class broadheads. I think you will like them.

Fir is my favorite shaft, but even a light fir is 50 grains heavier than spruce. Fir can get you plenty of spine, tho.

[sagebrush]

#55048

You could also add a thicker strike plate on your bow to gain some in the spine dept.Gary

[Ed Ashby]

#55489

Yes, building out the sideplate allows a weaker spined shaft to tune, regardless of the shaft material. A couple of my bows have no arrow shelf at all, using a peg rest instead. That includes the 94# longbow that I’ve used to take the majority of my big game with in the last 25 years or so.

We’ve become so accustioned to arrow shelves, and even near or true center shot bows, that many have forgotten that bows didn’t have arrow shelves until ‘modern times’.

Ed

[Treetopflier]

#59199

Hey what an informative thread! I think most of us trad types prefer to shoot wood, but in the foc department carbon offers so much advantages. It’s great to learn that it can be done right with wood. And the shelf build-out info provides another fun experiment and hopefully a way to rescue underspined arrows that can’t be shortened any more. Thanks gents. ttf

[East Coast]

#25706

I thought I was the only one that had problems with the internal footing jig! Glad I’m in good company:lol:

[David Petersen]

#25856

East Coast — we’re ALL in good company here. 😀 Welcome. dave p

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