Home › Forums › Friends of FOC › EFOC high wind video
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30 plus mph winds and was testing my 30% efoc arrows.
interesting and impressive.
Conclusion: the BACK of the arrows kick, straighten out, kick, straighten out, kick, straighten out repeatedly as it goes thru the wind. BUT the point is always where it needs to. I would never have gotten this kind of accuracy in these conditions with my old set up. I know becasue I have been shooting my old arrows for 10 years in all conditions.
Here is the video (has slow motion at the end).
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Jason
Great video replaces a thousand words:D Same winds here today so bad I left the turkey hunt as the limbs were falling like snow. On the way out I took a couple of shots with the blunt 29.17% EFOC and was amazed that I hit the dirt clod.
At home went out to my range(looks exactly like yours sans the 3d target can’t afford them:)) and used my heavier arrow that I have been tuning 775gr with 500 up front 31.67EFOC and was amazed again. Just like your video you could see it kicking around and still hitting what it was supposed to.
Thank you Dr Ed and Dave P.
Semper Fi
Mike
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Heheheheeee… well, Jason, wondered time-to-time how your arrow work was coming. I’d say that is pretty fair shooting and some pretty impressive results.
Given our past chatter, I can’t help but offer that if you tried some smaller feathers (which you said you were going to do) I wonder if the tail end might not flail around as much…not as much surface for the wind to mess with! 😆
Anyway, as always, thanks for taking time to share and show all that!
BTW, couldn’t help but notice how hard your ole target rocked on impact!
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Great video, Jason. However, I do have to agree with Doc Nock (Ouch, that hurts), if you will try some smaller fletching you won’t get nearly as much flaying around of the arrows in a high wind. The larger fletching is just giving the wind more surface area to act on.
On an UEFOC arrow like you have there, there is just no way you need anything close to the amount of fletching you are using, regardless of the broadhead used. If those UEFOC arrows are tuned well all the fletching you need is enough to overcome the broadhead’s windsheer. Anything more than that is actually hurting your arrow’s performance.
I spent a lot of time experimenting with fletching for the EFOC and Ultra-EFOC arrows. I think if you will give the A&A pattern fletching a try on that arrow setup, and test it in the wind, you might just fall in love with their strange looks.
Ed
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Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: Great video, Jason. However, I do have to agree with Doc Nock (Ouch, that hurts), if you will try some smaller fletching you won’t get nearly as much flaying around of the arrows in a high wind. The larger fletching is just giving the wind more surface area to act on.
On an UEFOC arrow like you have there, there is just no way you need anything close to the amount of fletching you are using, regardless of the broadhead used. If those UEFOC arrows are tuned well all the fletching you need is enough to overcome the broadhead’s windsheer. Anything more than that is actually hurting your arrow’s performance.
I spent a lot of time experimenting with fletching for the EFOC and Ultra-EFOC arrows. I think if you will give the A&A pattern fletching a try on that arrow setup, and test it in the wind, you might just fall in love with their strange looks.
Ed
Yeah Dave (Doc Nock) has been talking to me alot about the smaller fletching and explaining all your teachings on it. I have read a lot of your articles and studies. Im “in route” to the smaller fletching but need more testing with the broadheads i shoot (magnus I 1.5″ wide). I have the arrows bareshaft adn paper tuned to an almost perfect hole and love how they fly. with the broadheads i can go all the way down to 2.5 inch and still get good flight, but when they get wet and matted down the 2.5 or the 3in get a little too squirrely for my liking. right now im using a 4in feather made froma 5.5 high back and cutting it at 4 inches and not useing the back of the feather. Then i rounded the back with scissors. Still in the experimental phase and need more testing to see how small i can go. But for where i hunt (thick stuff not alot of wind) i need the good flight when wet and matted more than the high wind flight. The efoc is flawless and your arrow philosophy is amazing. My battle now seems to be having less feather but enough feather to use my big broadheads in the rain. I got a whole summer to figure it out and play.
I have always believed in heavy arrows and have been stuffing rope in all my shafts for almost 15 years to get the weight. I have always had about 20-23% foc on all my arrows as well. But this is my first time this high in the foc range. So far Im loving it. the proof will come with the game in the freezer. And i have no doubt the results will be exactly as im hoping. Thanks Ed, for all your studies and dedication to everything you do.
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I ain’t gettin in on this one. Me thinks Doc has it covered.:D
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LOL… quite stealing Jason’s thunder! But you guys sure have made me smile thru an otherwise pitzville week’s beginning!
Jason shares a great video and proves what we all have believed and knew the science was solid… My eyes, Jason, aren’t good enough to pic up the tailing as it flies, but if you say it’s there, having seen it myself here at times, I believe you!
While the point still hits where it’s supposed to, that tailing with wind catching fletching, does slow down the arrow some I believe… But Doc Ed can verify that for us! I’m under the impression any wiggle wobble will rob energy from the flight and stored energy in the arrow.
Wind here blows parallel with the house come fall/summer, directly into the building in winter (doh!). I shoot in the protection of the house but those last 12 yards the arrow is caught by the cross wind.
I might see one “roll” (as it appears to my eye) but then it hits STRAIGHT… I’ve seen precious little difference between bare shafts in the wind and then my 3×1/2″ that Ed still says are “too big”.
Nobody ever told me that 3″ was too big before… but it’s what I got!:wink:
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What is the weight of the bow used to shoot the arrows?
35/55 shafts with that much FOC would be really weak. Just wondering what bow you were shooting. Arrow’s seemed pretty fast…
Good shootin’ too!
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Steve,
I’ll be away a bit to see Jason’s answer, but I too thought it seemed very weak, but Jason has read all Ed’s stuff and retained it. I do remember in the video he said 26.5″ arrows… that’s SHORT!
I did think he was drawing in the 60’s! I’ve no frame of reference for arrow tuning that short! But I trust he’s done his homework and if they bareshafted first, ….well, I had to shake my head, but TRUTH is always stranger than Fiction… I’ve seen 1/8″ change from weak to stiff spine so that much shorter arrow than I know, puts it in the realm of FAith in him…
That is if my ears didn’t deceive me listening to his video and watching!
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Nice shooting, Jason! And it’s great to see folks truly getting out and experimenting with these setups in challenging conditions to see what EFOC is capable of first-hand.
One point that I keep coming back to, and that makes so much sense to me is – why steer the arrow from the rear, when you can steer it from the front? Your video is a great example of what happens to improved flight stability when you focus on the latter.
Personally, I’ve found that the smaller, stiffer fletching that I’ve been using (4 x 2-1/4″) doesn’t tend to hold much water at all when wet. You can always treat them with a little waterproofing agent as well, but like others have said, the benefits of not using more fletching than is really required can be worth it. If your arrows are tuned correctly, and you have enough weight up front that the arrow is being “pulled” to the target rather than steered frome the arse-end, it really shouldn’t take much fletching at all.
You said you experimented with 2-1/4″ previously – was that 3 or 4-fletch?
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Steve Graf wrote: What is the weight of the bow used to shoot the arrows?
35/55 shafts with that much FOC would be really weak. Just wondering what bow you were shooting. Arrow’s seemed pretty fast…
Good shootin’ too!
I hear from people all the time that a 3555 set up like this wont fly out of my 63# longbow. Literally over a hundred people have said that to me, even when i was stuffing them with rope.
Here is how it works. I shoot a 63#@26 robertson longbow and I draw between 25 and 25.5 inches (im only 5’6″). So im shooting about 60-61#s. my shafts are at 26.5 throat of nock to cut off. My double insert set up im shooting makes the front 3″ of shaft non flexing so for spine calculations my shaft is really only 23.5″. (insert is 1.5″ and i have 2 of them butted together in the shaft). So my arrow is 695 grains, with a 145 grain point, 100 grain steel adaptor, and 2 brass 100 grain inserts.
Im very very obsessive with bareshaft tuning and always shoot thru paper a couple times a year.
When i wanted to try efoc i bought 2 other shafts (400 and 340) so i hade my 3555, an 5575 and a beman 340. I loaded the tips like i said and started testing the bare shafts. Shoot, cut on arrow saw from back of shaft, shoot again, repeat. The 35555 was the one that shot the best. I tested with bareshafts and 3 fletched for a week then shot thru paper. Only a slight rip, knock high. Happy.
Interesting note: when i shot bareshaft tested with my quiver off and no silencers on the string the 5575s tested better and the 35555 flew weak. The strap on quiver (northern) and the silencers take enough energy from the bow that it changed almost one spine size. But since I always shoot with a quiver and silencers I tuned that way.
So my situation and short draw makes it unique and as soon as i say i shoot a 3555 out of 60# bow i always instantly get that “deer in the headlights look” from everyone. But it works for me.
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Smithhammer wrote:
you said you experimented with 2-1/4″ previously – was that 3 or 4-fletch?
my 2 1/4 were 3 fletch. And since they were not cut at 1/2 inch tall they did matt down when wet and my fat 1.5 magnus head had too much influence for my liking. The other issue i think that matters for me is my short arrow. Everything i read about Efoc talks about the length of the rear arm. The longer the arm the better stability. my rear arm (shaft) is much shorter than most.
I will be experimenting with smaller fletching but only to a point that i retain 100% confidence in all conditions. I also really like seeing that twirling ball of feathers going toward my target. It is easy to follow and easy to see where i hit. So I have to do more testing. I do Trust everything written about aa fletching and tubers but not sure if I am going to make it that far. Just have to see what the testing shows. Another thing I have is officially the worst release known to man! I constantly have to pay close attention to my anchor hand or i see it in the testing i did with the shorter feathers. That is something I also have to take into consideration. The point weight saves me when i realease bad on a bareshaft. But when i release bad with a broadhead and the 2.25 feathers i saw it in the flight.
Right now im shooting 4.25 x 3 helical fletched. Im about 70% happy with that and know there is room to play. Just have not had the time to devote to testing. But i will this summer.
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I was only going to ask Jason if he’s considered going to a more streamlined broadhead? Seems a shame to come so far with Ed’s advice and see it’s positive results, yet skip over broadhead MA … but then here comes a hen turkey to the bird feeder. Here’s a pic and she’s still there … with two bird dogs napping just on the other side of the little office shed. I need another beer so the turkey best feed fast.
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David Petersen wrote: I was only going to ask Jason if he’s considered going to a more streamlined broadhead? Seems a shame to come so far with Ed’s advice and see it’s positive results, yet skip over broadhead MA … but then here comes a hen turkey to the bird feeder. Here’s a pic and she’s still there … with two bird dogs napping just on the other side of the little office shed. I need another beer so the turkey best feed fast.
Wish I had that view from my office!
I have over 100 hundred of the original Magnus 1 2 blade heads. Been using them for 20 years. Love them. I have a lot of confidence in them. But onthe same note there was not as many options for heavy good heads 20 years ago when i started shooting them. When its time to buy more heads I’m keeping my options open to experiement a bit. I have been looking really hard at Tuff heads But it will be 2 more years before i shoot these all up.
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Jason,
Another great video production! Shooting in heavy wind sure does change things a bit, but your heavy arrows performed really well.
Love the enthusiasm!
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