Does it really matter ?

[Vance Brewer]

#5824

To start the New Year off……….I have a burning question for the collective deeply resourced minds here.:D

I come from a deep outdoor/ hunting/ranching family background. For as far back as I can remember my parents, grandparents as well as my great grandparents, instilled in us that you don’t harvest or slaughter meat if the temperatures are below “0”.

The answer has ALWAYS been the same when probed as to why. The animal is using all its energy and stored resources to keep warm, the quality of your meat will be compromised (tenderness and all that), therefore all my life this has been the norm in my family. This has also been a lingering question in my brain housing, Does it REALLY MATTER🙄 ?

When I say deep roots let me expound a bit here…..Great grandparents (ranchers, hunter gathers 1800s North Dakota & Wyoming)……Grandparents…..(Outfitters/Guides, ranchers, Western Wyoming 1800s-1900s)…….Parents….(Outfitting/Guides, Ranching,estern WY. my dads brothers followed same path including Taxidermy)

So for me at 60+ years this has always been drummed into this damaged brain:cry:.

In Wyoming, we have a late season depredation hunt that will end Jan.31st. Every year I participate in this hunt, adds another tag that can also be used during the general season, 2 sometimes 3 elk helps fill freezer space, with the caveat of it being the best easiest wild game for me.

Yesterday two of my very good friends were able to each take 2 elk. GREAT….Well it was -37 deg. And has been in that temp range for the past few days. Two days running -10 has been our high. By the time they returned to town the temp. was -42 (FLASH FROZEN). I have had one elk in my heated shop, trying to get it where it can just be skunt.

So my question, I still have an un-used permit in my pocket. DOES it REALLY MATTER ?

Let me just say #1 If it’s 20-40 below, you’ll not find me waiting in ambush with my Shrew for ANY ANIMALIES:shock: #2 I don’t think I wanna be field testin any Bow limbs at those temps. #3 I am VERY well aware of the extra effort do “ANYTHING” at those temperatures:roll:.

So help me dispel this myth or help prove my people right…….Yep I know all about the Alaska folks that’s partly why I’m havin a hard time wrapping my head round this.

WHAT SAY YOU ?

[jpc]

#44954

Do you write books ? :twisted::roll::twisted:

[Vance Brewer]

#44988

Nope……..Sorry……….But thanks for lookin and commenting, shows your usin the site…..:lol:

[David Coulter]

#45136

Never heard of such a thing. I don’t have experience with hunting in such extremes but once took a doe with a flintlock better than ten below. Tasted fine to me. I hope someone with genuine knowledge chimes in. Thanks. Dwc

[Charles Ek]

#45215

It’s said that if you stand at London’s Picadilly Circus, eventually you’ll see one of every type of human walk by. Looks like the same is true for fables on the Internet. 😉

The supposed inadequacies of game taken at subzero temperatures would come as a large surprise to many people, including my late grandfather, every Inuit who has ever walked the earth, and the entire population of Siberia.

[Vance Brewer]

#45975

Eidsvolling….Right on, That would explain it.

Family and Cultural traditions are nothing more or nothing less than Internet Fables……..I shall no more question why a tradition exists or if it has any validity in today’s thinking.

Thanks for the taking time to read and respond.

I’m off to London’s Picadilly Circus,:wink:

[CareyE]

#46096

If it helps, we were not allowed to drink milk when we ate fish or able to eat a banana after 6PM! Eidsvolling’s logic sounds good to me.

[John Dilts]

#46226

In the last 5 years i have havested 20-25 caribou not one in weather above zero and they all tasted GREAT.

[David Fudala]

#46270

I have a piggy back question on this one that maybe someone knows… Is it possible that in extreme cold weather the meat can be affected because it actually freezes too fast? Not allowing the meat to age and relax at all? I do remember shooting a young buck one year in late December and the thermometer was hoovering around -20 when I recovered the animal. The meat not only tasted noticeably different but the texture was also different than animals I had harvested in that same area. I always wondered what it was about that deer?

[Charles Ek]

#46295

Some non-fabulous advice from people who get paid to advise the rest of us:

“Keep your freezer at zero degrees (0°) or below to maintain the quality of frozen foods.

Most foods will maintain good quality longer if the freezer temperature is -10 to -20°F. At temperatures between 0 and 32°F, food deteriorates more rapidly. Fluctuating temperatures, such as those in self-defrosting freezers, also may damage food quality. Do not plan to store frozen foods for the maximum suggested time if your freezing unit cannot maintain zero degree temperatures. Even foods stored properly will lose color, texture, flavor and nutritional quality but will not cause food-borne illness.”

Refrigerator and Freezer Storage advice from the University of Nevada.

[Lydell Newell]

#46327

eidsvolling wrote: Some non-fabulous advice from people who get paid to advise the rest of us:

“Keep your freezer at zero degrees (0°) or below to maintain the quality of frozen foods.

Most foods will maintain good quality longer if the freezer temperature is -10 to -20°F. At temperatures between 0 and 32°F, food deteriorates more rapidly. Fluctuating temperatures, such as those in self-defrosting freezers, also may damage food quality. Do not plan to store frozen foods for the maximum suggested time if your freezing unit cannot maintain zero degree temperatures. Even foods stored properly will lose color, texture, flavor and nutritional quality but will not cause food-borne illness.”

Refrigerator and Freezer Storage advice from the University of Nevada.

i killed a doe one time it was 0 outside and the meat had a weird taste and texture to it and i eat a lot of deer meat to maybe it freeze to fast or maybe they didnt want to go hunting that cold like me i like early season hunting

[Charles Ek]

#46949

I did some poking around on this question last night. As a result, I may be eating tough, “cold-shortened” crow on this one. So far I’ve found seemingly contradictory conclusions in the meat science literature, but there is a possibility that Iron Bull’s family was on to something. More later when I have waded through the literature on the subject.

[Mark Turton]

#49301

Iron Bull, only thing I can suggest your guide/outfitter forefathers may have used this to discourage customers from killing game when it can become quickly frozen and difficult to skin and process. Beyond that I can only agree with the earlier replies.

If you guys ever get to Piccadilly Circus I’ll be sure to buy the beers and we can watch the world go by.

Mark.

[Fallguy]

#49718

Iron Bull I have been trying to find the article I read about 6 weeks ago on this very subject. The author stated that if the carcass freezes during the rigamortis process the muscle will be tough.

[David Coulter]

#49757

This is turning into something interesting. Whatever the outcome, I’m sure I’ll hunt like I have been… whenever I get a chance. I’ll keep reading. Neat stuff. thanks, dwc

[oldcentaur]

#55154

I kinda doubt that it does matter. I have killed animals when it was cold, and never noticed any difference. I did notice that gutting wasn’t that much fun when your hands are freezing to your knife and anything else that they might touch.

[Charles Ek]

#55202

After some Internet research, my conclusions are these:

1. Iron Bull’s family might be on to something. The “cold shortening” process that toughens meat may likely occur when game is field dressed and then cut up at subzero temperatures.

2. Leaving the meat in quarters (possibly even just leaving it unboned) until it can be handled at the “right” temperature might avoid this, by restraining the muscles and thus preventing shortening.

3. I think killing an animal at subzero temps does nothing to affect the meat. It’s the processing that makes the difference.

I rely chiefly on my understanding of this article for my conclusions:

Rapid tenderisation of lamb M. longissimus with very fast chilling depends on rapidly achieving sub-zero temperatures

I sure wish we had someone involved in meat science who could clear this up for us!

[David Coulter]

#55721

From what I found I think it has to do with timing of the natural rigor mortis process. The muscle tightens then relaxes again. That process can take a couple of days and freezing interupts that process as well as the enzyme breaking down the fibers, which is the aging I was more familiar with. Dwc

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