Custom building a 2 piece stainless steel broadhead

[Daniel]

#7448

I’ve built a number of broadhead blades in the past however I thought it would be a nice way to start this new year by showing you what is involved in building the actual blade. This tread will be very similar to my build alongs. These are the steps I will be going through:

1- Choosing the appropriate stainless steel.
2- Coming up with a working concept design and moving it forward to the actual shape of the head (while taking in account the end weight we want to achieve).
3- Grinding, shaping.
4- Heat Treating.
5- Cryogenic Treatment ( explaining why we do this very important step).
6- Testing steel for impact strength, edge retainability.
7- Sharpening
8- Etching whole blade (corrosion protection).

I will build 6 of them and once completed, we will put them up for our first free Draw, right here on Tradbow.

So with this being said, if you want to throw in your individual ideas as to the shape/type of broadhead you would like to see built, feel free to post them on here.

Once the broadheads will be completed, we will be giving them away to a lucky winner.

Daniel

[Bert]

#62105

SB- Are we the only two posting?
Now this really piques my interest!!! Let,s see- single bevel-left- 25 degrees – I really like the design of the silverflame at Alaska Bowhunting but without the vents- that slight elliptical looks sharp instead of the boring straightness of the Ashby or Grizzlys( though they do work)- slight tanto or diamond tip- let’s see what the teslar comes up with. Now weight-hmmmmm- I assume you’re making glue-ons so we can up the package with aluminum or steel adaptors later- somewhere 150ish? What do you have for steel- 440b or c- 154CM- what would really be cool would be some Scandanavian stainless-clad with the harder sandwiched between two-layers of softer- nah, couldn’t really go with a single bevel then.
OK, I’ll quit bugging you and let you get back to your God-given work! This is going to be inspiring and FUN!!!

[Patrick]

#62132

I’m really looking forward to this. Very cool! You are amazing SB!

[Daniel]

#62142

Bert, they will be a two piece broadhead as I do not have the equipment necessary to do the glue on’s. Thank you for suggesting two types of stainless, its a start, a really good one.

Your suggestion is a broadhead that has a slight eliptical curve to it and with either a tanto or diamond tip. The weight your also looking for would be in the 150 grain area. Would you have a length to ratio to suggest? I’ll make a few drawings of that type of blade and you can tell me what you think.

[Clay Hayes]

#62210

You’ve got my attention. How about geting close to a 3:1 ratio.:D

[David Petersen]

#62219

Daniel — not at all to oppose Bert’s suggestion for an eliptical head in your build-along, but assuming you’ll build more than one design in the half-dozen, I second Clay’s suggestion to please go also for a max Ashby head, 3:1 with the 1 being less than an inch as a 3″ x 1″ head, while meeting the Doc’s optimal “mechanical advantage” in ratio, is just too durn big for most purposes. And how’s about around 200 grains and 150+R? Also, my second selfish request (feel free to ignore) is to do all of this with the least possible shop and tools you can manage. I suspect I represent many others insofar as I can barely scrape up a half-decent woodshop, and have next to zilch for metal-working tools or skills. Bench vice, electric drill and attachments, soldering gun (or metal glue?) and various hand tools like files; that’s about it for most of us. So the simpler the tools and skills required, the more accessible and useful your build-along will be. I know something of your expertise with metals, so having you offer to do this is a far greater gift than many may imagine, as Sharpster will testify. And you take great close-up photos!

OK, time now to butt out and go for a Mexican dinner … something likely hard to come by up north where you are, but for your sake I hope not! :D:D:D Dave

[Bert]

#62226

StandingBearBrother- If you could clarify for me- the blade and ferrule are separate and you braze, weld, mechanical fasten someway with screws or pins the ferrule to the blade?So this will be a screw in ferrule not a modified glue-on field point ala Jay Massey?
Having reread the excellent Dr. Ed Ashby’s arrow lethality reports- available on this website, and required study by all archery hunters IMAO- on broadhead mechanical efficiency, it seems the best we have currently is the ratio of 3-1- basically a straight edge Grizzly.
The minimum width allowed in Wa.State is 7/8 of an inch(you do the metric conversion!) so I would say at least 1 1/16-1 1/8 inches to allow for resharpening by at least 2 1/2-2 3/4 depending on the thickness and weight of the chosen steel.
Hey!- somebody sent me some nice carbon arrows with unholy PLASTIC VANES attached- they must come off immediately and carefully- There Shall Be No Plastic Vanes Allowed In This Household- besides I can’t shoot them off the shelf!
Stay toasty- hope you have a heater or better yet, a woodstove in your workshop- Bert

[Daniel]

#62327

Excellent recommendation Clay, I think we can do a variety of designs or should the be a consensus to work on a singular design, we can do that too.

Dave, I think your request to use common tools is an excellent recommendation. Here’s what I recommend you have for this project; a 14 inch bastard file, a 8 inch bastard file ( of which cuts on all four sides), a hand drill, cobalt drill bit 3/32″ (cobalt bits have no difficulty drilling in stainles steel, but I do recommend you get a couple), a hack saw with blades made to cut steel (18 teeth per inch works well), a steel vice ( doesn’t have to be a big one either, a small one will do.

We can start from there Dave, and I know for sure that the people that want to make their own blades will enjoy this process.

[Daniel]

#62523

Its been a very long night but I think I have Dave and Clay’s suggestion down on paper, cardboard to be more precise. I do have to say that the dimensions you recommended once on paper made alot of sense and it looks pretty darn effecient as is, can you imagine when it will become a real tangible broadhead…….this one deserves a WOW indeed.

Listen Dave, I know for a fact that we will be building this one, good call !!!

I know, I know, the ferrel ( I always have a hard time with that word ) is on crooked 🙂 You still get a pretty good idea as to how this will come together.

I’ll take some time tomorrow to work on Bert’s suggestion.

This tread is still young, there’s lots of time to get your thoughts and ideas down on paper and make your ideal broadhead come to life.

[Patrick]

#62797

I don’t have enough experience with traditional equipment to feel I should have any say in the design, but I do like what I see so far…for what it’s worth. 😉

[Rocks]

#62919

I like the broadhead you sketched out, looks great. Looking forward to the build along, nice thread!

[Bert]

#63035

SB- One design down, five to go! Excellent sketch- very similar to the modified 160 gr. Grizzlys I have- they’re all right bevel, as is yours, so should be fletched with right-wing feathers. How about a right and left bevel of three designs or would that be too complicated?
Stickbow.com has an interesting article with photos on broadhead collecting- 1st American commercial head in 1878 by Peck&Snyder and some photos of the Pioneer Gametamer aka the pizza cutter and the infamous flying apple corer- two examples that didn’t quite work out as intended!
About half way down is a photo of an Easton Forged which is similar to the design I envisioned- slight elliptical(not as radical as the Masai or Nanook from ABS)- maybe 1 to 1 1/8 wide by 2 1/2 to 2 5/8 inches long- come on guys, curves are sexy! As long as you don’t build a Rosie O’Donnell head! Think svelte.
Six different heads would be ‘tres chic’ too- would keep you from getting bored replicating the same head 6X.
Whatever you decide, StandingBear, we are all in awe of your talent and dedication and can’t wait for the next installment. Best- Bert
P.S. would be great to have a water-jet cutter, wouldn’t it?- but I guess that would put it out of Dave’s insightful post about using common tools. Back to the good old elbow grease!

[Daniel]

#63075

Thanks for your insight and your suggestions. I will have a broadhead design out this evening with your measurements / slight eliptical curve.

And to be quite honest Bert, the only thing I am doing with this tread is re-directing all of your positive thoughts and energies into a few broadhead designs. Plus we will be shortly be using elbow grease to building our own BH’s, that is pretty exciting 🙂

Daniel

[David Petersen]

#63082

Thanks Daniel — lookin’ good so far. I have all the tools you list except saw blade and bits, and those are easy to come by. I shoot all left-bevel, for what that’s worth. If it’s not jumping the gun to ask — where do we acquire the proper thickness and hardness steel? Thanks, dave

[Chris Shelton]

#63195

Alot of people build there own bows, probably 4 times that build arrows, but I dont really know of anyone that builds broadheads, way to think outside the box!!! It looks great!

[Daniel]

#63303

Alright, now here is Bert’s suggestion. Since I seen first hand how effective Dave’s broadhead was, I thought of using the same dimensions and giving Bert’s broadhead his slender but very effective elliptical curve.

And like Dave’s design, I know this one here will also be OUTSTANDING !!!!!!

Please feel free to give us your thoughts on the sketches provided.

Daniel

[Chris Shelton]

#63312

that fuerral looks strait, 😆 (did I spell that right?)

[Bert]

#63375

Greatreearcher wrote: that fuerral looks strait, 😆 (did I spell that right?)

GTA- That would be “ferrule”
SB- You nailed it! Now, that looks svelte with just a bit sexy curve. Be interesting to know how many others are planning ro follow your build along and make their own- I’ve got a couple of Fein blades(German stainless) that are dull- it’s basically a vibrating ulu-shaped blade we use to cut sheetrock with. Have to micrometer and measure it to see if it’s a possible candidate for the “Ultimate Broadhead” or it would be perfect for the notorious “pizza cutter” as pictured at StickBow collector section!

[Daniel]

#63420

In order not to replicate other excellent broadheads out there, I would suggest that we stick with these two and I will make 3 of each for the give away.

I can’t reiterate the importance of respecting the exclusivity of their broadhead designs. So with that being said, I will start making with hand tools Dave’s suggested design.

Here is where you can buy the stainless steel:

http://www.knifemaker.ca
1-888-858-3343
154CM 1/16″ x 1.25″ sold per linear inch
0.82 cents per inch

Once the broadheads will be built, you will send them to me and I will assure the highest quality heat treat, sub zero quench and tempering process be applied for that particular steel.

The only thing you will need to cover in term of costs is the shipping of your broadheads. For the purpose of this build along tread, I will cover the stainless steel transformation costs.

[Treetopflier]

#7825

Daniel — first, it’s great to have a picture of you at last. Anonymity (sp?) is overrated among friends and it sure seems that this website is friendly. Second, while I absolutely honor your intent to provide at least two different design options, and assuming that the slightly convex design (a la Eclipse) does a good job of cutting, still, I have found that curved broadheads heads are very hard to sharpen equally on both sides and want to go flat, and as the curve tends to wear down toward what a biologist might call “homeostasis” — that is, where the laws of physics want things to be — one side usually wears faster than the other and weight goes unbalanced. This is the primary reason I prefer flat-sided heads to convex, though I’m no engineer. I reckon this is a separate topic? Sorry. Just a thought, and thoughts are fun. (Which is to boldly suggest that folks who think, even when the thinking hurts because it goes opposite of what we want to think, have more fun than those of us who just accept the thinking of others.) This is a great thread, kingly thanks.

[Daniel]

#7867

Snuffy,

I have had a number of fine folks mention I should put a pic of myself on here and there you go, your comments on how friendly this site is, is right on the money.

Out to the shop I go to start on cutting out the first…..hey wait a minute here, I have an idea ❓

We should find a name for these two broadheads. If anyone has any suggestions, put them down and we can let Dave and Bert decide which ones they prefer.

OK, my turn suggesting……

Dave’s – Eternity
Bert’s – The End

There are my two suggestions and out to the shop I go, will take pictures and return to post them later, cheers 🙂

Daniel

[William Warren]

#7945

I must say I am more attracted to Dave’s design for the same reason Snuffy mentioned, however, Bert’s design is aesthetically pleasing to the eye. On Bert’s design if we added a slight delta to the base of the blades, would that infringe on anyones commercial design?
And it is nice to see you Daniel, great pic!
I don’t think I can top the Raptor or The End.
Can’t wait to see them.

[Daniel]

#7952

Thanks Snuffy, I’ll sketch a slight delta to the base and see how they look.

I just finished cutting 3 eternity and am working on the End 🙂 Man that sounds too cool !!!!!

By the way, the Eternity design (if I could permit myself to call them those names until another name is choosen) is absolutely DEADLY !!!!!!!

Back to the shop….

[William Warren]

#7964

StandingBear wrote: Thanks Snuffy, I’ll sketch a slight delta to the base and see how they look.

I just finished cutting 3 eternity and am working on the End 🙂 Man that sounds too cool !!!!!

By the way, the eternity design (if I could permit myself to call them those names until another name is choosen) is absolutely DEADLY !!!!!!!

Back to the shop….

Um, not Snuffy. Snuffornot. I gotta get TDADMIN to change me to Duncan.

[Daniel]

#7997

LOL LOL Too funny !!!! A big Oups here 😆

Thanks Snuffornot for reminding me !!

[Patrick]

#8062

SB: Peer pressure worked, eh?!!! 😆
2 cents worth:
Dave’s: The Wild Edge
HalfaHun’s: The Attila

[Daniel]

#8072

Those are awesome names Patrick, two thumbs up !!!

Well, I finished cutting out the 6 heads using a hacksaw and then shaping them to my scribe line using my 14 inch bastard file. They look great, both of them. How funny this is, having the opportunity to share ideas and coming up with these two incredible heads.

Now I have to drill the holes where the hex screws are going to go through and were going to be ready to shape the left bevel grind using a wooden jig that I’ll post.

I like the heads !!

[Treetopflier]

#9013

Not to distract even more from Daniel’s exciting post (yeah, us trad/primitive guys get excited about weird stuff, eh?), Snuffornot’s point is well taken. Excuse my (whatever word works best here, I don’t know), but as much fun as “public names” are, wouldn’t it be cool if this was the first site that used our real names??? Except for our many beloved Steve’s of course. But both names would take care of that. Not likely, as we likes our anonymity, but a thot nohow. “snuffy” NOT snuffornot :P:P

[Daniel]

#9082

Well Snuffy, you got me thinking and I’ve asked to have my username changed from StandingBear to Daniel.

Another exciting day for me, I just found out I will be able to have my own custom designed ferrules built. I’ve added a small modification to the ferrule body allowing it to widthstand added lateral pressure. Once they come out, I’ll present them here.

Daniel

[Chris Shelton]

#9098

O no that would really confuse me, you guys might talk to me like normal, but with your new usernames I would get confused:?:, and on top that Standingbear(Daniel) has changed his picture:shock:.:lol:

If this helps the Mods listening in, on myspace they have this think where you can have a handle on top-like here- and our real name on the bottom under the picture. Or we could just have our real names under our handle in Italics or something:idea::?: Just thinking aloud as I have no clue on how to actually do these things. We all should have thought about what we wanted before we made our username! lol, or we could have just hit a key like M:lol:

Edit: sorry from defering from the origional post! Cant wait to see the finished product! You know they say now is the best time to start a new business- so standingbear, or Daniel, if this works out good, you might have something there!

[Bert]

#9200

Fellow bow brothers- I’m not online for a couple of days and a revolution occurs- to use our real boring names instead of the fruits of our imaginations and inspiration. So be it, I accede, but I think we should sign our posts with our assumed names- I mean, no more StandingBear or Greattreearcher or snuffernot- God forbid!
As to broadhead names I guess I’ll have to favor the “Bert” now- the deadliest bh of the planet, able to blow through bone and cut flesh like s@&* thru a short dog!- just kidding, Patrick’s the Attila or perhaps the “Hun” for it’s simplicity would be appropiate.
About sharpening, the straight edge is certainly easier but the elliptical or convex head is no harder than your knife which unless you have a Wharncliffe has a pronounced curve towards the point- get a KME and forget about it. Personally I rarely shoot my hunting broadheads because I dedicate one head and arrow for practice only, and since they are all built matching as close as possible, wear and tear on the “real” heads is minimized.
We’re just going to have to get Dr. Ed Ashby back so he can test both heads in the real world- You’re going down Dave!!
Thanks Daniel!- we had some ideas but he is the craftsman putting it all together and all kudos to him.
HalfaHun

[Chris Shelton]

#9769

I have a question pertainting to broadheads! Does anyone make a broadhead out of carbon steel?

[Daniel]

#9810

Greatreearcher – good question, broadheads out of carbon Steel, not that I know of, however, what I could mention is if you were to use a carbon steel with a high level of carbon content, it would increase your steel’s hardenability but also seriously increases its brittleness which is not what we need for broadhead material. So to find the best of both worlds, we need to find either tool, stainless or spring steel that have very specific alloy composition that matches what we need in terms of hardness and strength.

That was a great question by the way !! 🙂

Daniel

[Chris Shelton]

#9839

well I know people say that carbon steel stays sharper, but i really didnt know anything about its brittleness, I figured that had something to do with it. Just wondering, thanks, standingbear:P/Daniel! Very informative awnser!

[Hiram]

#10438

Most Broad heads are made from high carbon steel!:)

[Mark Turton]

#10720

Hi Daniel, great project, I have a question I have a couple of knives by different makers with blades made from spring steel (1095 I think) they have a convex grind and retain an excellent cutting edge that is easily maintained but the points on both curled when I used them.
I have reprofiled the points removing the minimum of material and making the angle greater giving more support and found that this cured the problem.
Finally my question, would you suggest that this is due to the design or heat treatment, this is to satisfy my curiosity I have no issues with the makers.

Mark.

[Daniel]

#10893

As not to confuse anyone about the term ” High Carbon” steel I would like to provide this explanation about it.

Basically if we look at steel, it is iron with carbon it, its that simple.

However the steels we use in the knife and broadhead industries are called steel alloys, meaning they are made of a combination of different elements.

Carbon is present in all steels and it has been found to be a very important hardening element plus it helps increase the strength of the steel.

Carbon is also one of many elements such as Chromium, Manganese, Molybdenum, Nickel, Vanadium and the list of elements that could be found in one particular alloy goes on and on. What we try and look at when working with the different types of steel are their uses and applications.

A high carbon steel will contain approximately 1.0 % of Carbon mixed with other elements.

I hope this shed a bit of light on the term High Carbon.

[tom-wisconsin]

#11812

Wow. I have learned a lot by following this thread. Thank you goes to everyone. I will continue to follow this. Most interesting.

[Hiram]

#11974

Just google “carbon steel”. Then google “knife steel”. Many – kinds of steels with different properties for different uses. If you explore this subject, you can also find the types of steel that are just laying around and can be re-cycled into knives broad heads etc. Files, lawn mower blades, chainsaw bars and so on. I have several knives I have made from old Stihl chainsaw bars, (O1 steel) and some out of saw blades and other stuff I have came up with. Heck, some 5061 from 71 Chevy truck springs. The “drawing or annealing” the steel before you work it is necessary in order to soften it sufficiently to file and grind it into your pattern and drill handle holes.Re-hardening is done in a home made forge and then quenched in olive oil, then tempered in my oven. Carbon steels are laying around every where if you want to make your own stuff.

[Bert]

#12076

Good Saturday morning to you Daniel- just had acouple of thoughts about bh #2 design I’d like to run by you.
Would it be neat to incorporate the feathers most of us use- either shield or parabolic- into the, as it were, backend of the broadhead?
Looking at the design you created, this morning a name came to me- Raven- the bh reminds me of the strong curved beak of that amazing bird, kind of my “totem” animal spirit- besides Bert is Germanic for “Bright Raven” so , since it is a new year, goodbye “HalfaHun”.
Just a couple of idle thoughts from a rambing mind who hasn’t had enough coffee yet!
Blessings to StandingBear from BrightRaven aka Bert

[Daniel]

#12123

Hiram, those are excellent comments about how we can recycle used materials and transform them into useful tools. I think with this mindset, we can learn to make our very own knives and or broadheads.

Bert,you’ve made some really good points, let’s run with that too, I’ll make one of each for you to see, meaning one broadhead with a parabolic / Shiels back end.

I edited this post to personally thank Hiram, a fellow knifemaker that is bringing to this tread important points regarding carbon steels. I must admit, too often we tend to overlook what is around us and again, good point. that is what I wanted to achieve with this tread, the input of people.

Now, if there is a desire from all of you to build another set of broadheads once this tread is done, but made out of High Carbon Steel, I am willing to do that. This will give us the opportunity to show everyone the qualities of that particular type of material.

Now back to our stainless steel project.

[David Petersen]

#21182

I’m just back from another meatless but exciting AZ whitetail hunt and see more than a week has gone by since Daniel’s last post here. How goes it? dave

[Chris Shelton]

#24496

yea, I like that idea about the feather design incorperation!

[William Warren]

#33648

Hey Daniel,
I’m hoping you are just still waiting on those custom made ferules! Hope you are not all snowed in up there!:D
Duncan

[David Petersen]

#34296

Yeah — where you at, Daniel. Let us know all is OK on your end! dave :?:D

[Hiram]

#34539

Hopefully, I did not discourage you Daniel! If I did, except my apology. I commented on the steels, not your project.:)

[Patrick]

#38162

I just received an email from him. He’s doing good, just SUPER busy with work right now.

[Ed Ashby]

#38393

Looks to me like all of you are having WAY too much fun! 😆

Ed

[Treetopflier]

#38436

Well Doc, we miss our leading voices when they’re gone. And we worry. You should know that! 😉

[William Warren]

#38642

Glad Daniel is OK. Having lots of work is a good thing!

[Hiram]

#40220

Hey Doc! Hope you are faring well and drawing more research for us to glean. I know you have written volumes but those of us in the “Want to Know” are eager to read! Best wishes and blessings to you and your family. I also think Daniel will have a mega check in the Bank from working soo hard. Time to kick back and jot a little on the Post. Maybe he is picking up some Obsidien, LOL:)

[Ed Ashby]

#40587

Thanks, Hiram. I’m getting better. I HOPE I can recover enough for another buffalo trip sometime this year. In the meantime I still have a lot of data analysis and writing to do from the 2008 testing. I’ve only released Parts 1 and 2 so far, but 3 and 4 are under ‘review and comment’ from a trusted source (I like to have someone go over them and ask questions about areas that are not clear to them, so I can address area that I though would be clear – or self evident – to most). I’m got Parts 5 and 6 pretty well ready for that review, and am working on 7.

The volumn of data has reached the point that it’s becoming easier to draw clear conclusions on many aspects of the Study, so many areas are gitting revisited to solidify the results. Not sure yet how many parts there will be to the 2008 Updates, but there will be a fair amount of ‘new reading’ by the time it’s finished.

Ed

[Hiram]

#40833

Looking forward to it! Wishing you many more Hunts!!! 🙂

[Author]

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