Home › Forums › Campfire Forum › Cross-Dominance and Instinctive
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It’s certainly a topic that has been discussed extensively before, and with strongly-held opinions. But for those of you who know Jeff Kavanaugh’s videos, you know what a talented shooter he undeniably is. I’ve been following him for a while, but it wasn’t until this video that I learned he is cross-dominant! I think he makes some good points on the topic in this video, and it pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject as well:
Add Jeff to the list of extremely talented instinctive archers who are (or were) cross-dominant…
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Thanks for sharing that…!
Jay Kidwell (Instinctive Archery) also dealt with this extensively in both of his great paper back books. (1st and 2nd edition) Love it.
Over time, I became left eye dominant and was worried. Then Jay’s book came to me and in reading it, his pictures really made sense… and having known about binocular predator vision, there was no question. Shooting other weapons, where it’s not instinctive but “aimed” I have to close my dominant left eye…sucks! Won’t work gap or gun barreling as that is a form of dominant eye aiming…as I understand it. Did the “down the shaft” thing as a young man, but aging cost me my right eye dominance slowly and surely… so now it’s just stare and shoot.
Jay goes so far as to suggest we only ever shoot ONE instinctive arrow…first one with a given bow and arrow combo…he believes that after that, our brain has created a visual on that trajectory and remembers it. And at varied distance, automatically compensates for changing distance if we but allow it… IF! If my Aunt was built different, she’d be my Uncle!
22 yards and snuffing a candle…oye! I’d bet happy to hit the bloody jug swinging like that!
But I agree, that the topic is very fraught with emotion and allegiance to one camp or another. Archery is simple, but it has a lot of inter-twined variables!
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Where there is the will, your body and mind can overcome almost any obstacle. I am also cross eyed dominant but never had an issue. Howard Hill, Fred Bear….just pick how you want to shoot and dedicate yourself.
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Doc Nock wrote: Shooting other weapons, where it’s not instinctive but “aimed” I have to close my dominant left eye…sucks!
I’ve found the same thing, Doc (I’m l. eye dom, r-hand shooter). I shoot a shotgun with both eyes open no problem (and I can consistently shoot at least 20 out of 25 at clays), but when it comes to aiming with handguns, I have to close my left eye.
The ‘binocular vision’ thing has always made sense to me – it’s how and why we’ve evolved the way we have, and I don’t think there is any inherent hindrance in it.
two4hooking wrote: Where there is the will, your body and mind can overcome almost any obstacle. I am also cross eyed dominant but never had an issue.
That’s the interesting thing to me, Greg, is that I often hear it framed as “an obstacle” to be overcome, and that with practice some can achieve it. But is it really an obstacle, or is it just another one of those things that gets repeated so often that it gets taken as truth? I’ve never been convinced that there is truly an obstacle to shooting instinctively with both eyes open, if one is cross-dominant at all. I agree with Jeff – it truly makes no difference. And I think Jeff makes a really good point – the key to shooting effectively if one is cross-dominant is shooting instinctively. If one is using an aiming method, it’s a different deal. That has always made sense to me, but it’s nice to hear such an accomplished shooter say the same thing.
And I’d say that your recent shot on that deer wasn’t too bad, for being a “handicapped” cross-dominant shooter! 😉
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Ha,Bruce, that part of handguns made me smile. Got back into shooting big bore revolvers this past year…
One is a 5″, other 7.5″ Ruger NMBH, Colt.45 cal.
My eyes aren’t even good enough anymore to SEE iron sights to aim so I put a scope on the long barrel for hunting.
What tickled me was at 25, with the shortie, I could just do the same as with my bow and pull up two handed and wail away and do pretty good… a 2″ snubby at 10 yards, chewed the face out and never brought it up higher than chest high!
As with bows, alignment and consistency seem to be the key to “instinctive” any type shooting… but to each his own. I’ve always been rather amazed, or in the past 10 yrs or so, when folks talk about “Picking a single hair!” WT? I’m fortunate I can see the deer, let alone a single HAIR! 😯 That lil white crease behind the shoulder still stands out well enough…and even after all these years, to see a flour nock disappear right there, still makes me smile!
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I read someplace that about 75% of major league baseball players are cross dominant. That way the batter is looking at the pitcher with the dominant eye and not having to look across the bridge of his nose. Don’t know if it is true or not but it makes sense.
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when I started archery 5 years ago, I shot right handed because I was asked at the time of purchasing a compound bow by the staff what was my dominant hand or which side I swung a bat or hockey stick…it worked fine and I was initially comfortable because my body was right side dominant and you have sights on the bow…then years later I tried a Traditional recurve and instinctive shooting and got hooked!! I love the challenge pure nature of it! although, it was initially frustrating because my arrows would always tend to be left of my target…at this time I did the numerous eye dominance tests, crap I’m left eye dominant!!
it was suggested to me to try: keep left eye closed, cover with a patch, half squint , re-train to right eye dominant(is that even possible?)…after reading TJ Conrads book, specifically the part about eye dominance…I followed his advice and bought a left hand recurve (Bear Grizzly 🙂 and began the process of re-training to shoot left hand…I’ll sum it up by saying thank you TJ!!,
after taking 2 steps backwards I’ve gone 5 steps forward and improving daily…repetition will train the body and physical aspect…
The opinion of this writer may not reflect the views of anyone 🙂
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CameronNewton wrote:
it was suggested to me to try: keep left eye closed, cover with a patch, half squint , re-train to right eye dominant(is that even possible?)…
Welcome to the forum, Cameron!
I have to say, any advice about shooting with one eye closed, wearing an eye patch, etc. is misguided, in my opinion. We absolutely need both eyes open when shooting for proper depth perception, if nothing else.
From Anthony Camera’s excellent book “Shooting the Stickbow – A Practical Approach to Classical Archery” (2nd Ed.):
“While there are some advantages to having handedness match eye dominance, unless the eye dominance is so great that it prevents you from aiming, it’s best to choose a right or left-handed bow based on your natural inclinations. In other words, if you’re generally right-handed, start with a right-handed bow….
…Until recently, eye dominance has been considered a major factor in determining whether a person should be shooting a right or left-handed bow. The theory stated that the arrow needed to be directly under the dominant eye to facillitate the aiming process. This makes logical sense, but humans are an illogical species. There have been too many excellent archers, including Howard Hill and Fred Bear, who were cross-dominant and did quite well for themselves…”
To add on to that, I’ve come to believe that how one aims can also be a factor in the importance of eye-dominance, or not. For methodical aiming methods, such as gap shooting, it may be more of a factor. For instinctive shooting, as long as both eyes are open and focused on the target, I agree with Mr. Camera and Jeff’s video above.
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Watching Jeff’s video got me to thinking and experimenting with my eyeglasses.
I’m right eye dominant and shoot right handed. When I put my glasses on and try to shoot everything goes to hell in a hand basket.
So I got to playing and when I look at what I’m shooting at with a drawn bow and no glasses I see what I’m shooting at with both eyes. When I put my glasses on and draw the bow back the target totally disappears from my right eye’s vision. It’s blocked by the frame and nose piece of the glasses.
Dang.
It’s like putting a patch over my right eye and trying to make my non dominant eye do what it’s not knowing how to do.
Perhaps folks who started out shooting and wearing glasses never knew there was a problem so none existed.
I suppose if I had to wear my glasses to shoot, which with I probably could see what I’m shooting at better, I would have to teach myself to twist my neck more so my face is facing the target more or figure out an anchor which moves the string away from my face more. That’s against what I know about form.
Sitting here messing around some more, if I anchor 3 under I have a sight picture with my glasses on so if worse comes to worse I can change to that. I can shoot 3 under but I prefer split. We’ll see what happens with time. I suspect at nearly 70 not much gonna change but added wrinkles and maybe 3 under:wink::wink:
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This guy Kavanaugh is an excellent teacher/coach and an excellent shot. I really enjoy his videos. I only found him about a year ago. What he says about shooting is worth listening to.
Another neat thing about him, and George Stout by the way, is he shoots factory bows. Impeccable form and tuning.
Anybody else out there practice archery on their hockey rink?
Best, dwc
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This is a highly controversial subject. I have to say that based on my knowledge of the human brain, no one “becomes” right (or let) eye dominant. It is the way your brain is hard-wired from birth. Some can adapt, others cannot. I am extremely right eye dominant, as I learned when I made a few attempts to shoot “lefty” after shoulder surgery. Disaster. The general rule is to go with the dominant eye, but by all means do what works for you. Don
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R2 wrote: …So I got to playing and when I look at what I’m shooting at with a drawn bow and no glasses I see what I’m shooting at with both eyes. When I put my glasses on and draw the bow back the target totally disappears from my right eye’s vision. It’s blocked by the frame and nose piece of the glasses…
That’s why I started that thread on glasses a while back… I found a pair of glasses without frames. Kind of expensive but it seemed to work for me.
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I think Don brings up a good point about the severity of an individual’s cross-dominance. If one’s cross-dominance is fairly mild, I don’t think it has to be an issue. But if you’re someone with more severe cross-dominance, I can see it potentially creating challenges.
Which again, just points to the fact that there is no “black and white” answer, as with so many things. Maybe the correct answer to the question should be, “shoot what you gravitate toward naturally (as Hill, Bear, Kavanaugh and many others have), and if, after a time, you still struggle with accuracy, then consider switching to match your eye dominance to your hand.”
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donthomas wrote: This is a highly controversial subject. I have to say that based on my knowledge of the human brain, no one “becomes” right (or let) eye dominant. It is the way your brain is hard-wired from birth. Some can adapt, others cannot. I am extremely right eye dominant, as I learned when I made a few attempts to shoot “lefty” after shoulder surgery. Disaster. The general rule is to go with the dominant eye, but by all means do what works for you. Don
That is most interesting, Doctor Don!!!
I’ve read that too… but I can attest personally, that I WAS right eye dominant thru my youth…used to do those dominant eye things for shotgun and handgun training sessions… never a problem.
As I aged, my right eye weakened in visual acuity/strength…and danged if I did not BECOME left eye dominant…took me a long time to go back and check, but found myself having to close my left eye… doh!
So I wonder if visual strength doesn’t have something to do in later life with eye dominance??? Seems to be in my case, and I’m the only one who worries about how I shoot
Then I ran on Jay Kidwell’s book on Instinctive Archery and it made sense… binocular vision with eyes in front as with all “predators” so just stare and shoot.
Further evidence is that in my late teens, early 20’s there were only stick bows…and I shot “gun barrel” anchored near my right eye, sighted down the shaft and ‘gap’ shot…pretty decent too… can’t do that no mo’ without closing my left eye.
Later, in my transition to the DARK SIDE, a guy from PSE talked me into a single sight pin… and I had to start squinting…never dawned on me dominance had “changed”. Wonder how that happened… started needing to hold books farther way to read, too! 🙁 Sure SEEMS my dominance changed with all that data!
Go figure. Shooting both eyes open works with my current anchor and no sighting tried of any type… you all might shoot circles around me, but I’m ok with my accuracy but I’m not switching to left hand anything!
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