Close encounters and backup

[shaneharley]

#6523

I’m just fishing to see if there are folks who have had close encounters with bears, cougars and such while out hunting? Maybe share part of your experience?

My wife and I had something growl at us that we never did see while out hiking. I’ve had rattle snakes let me know they were there as well. But other than that wading and swimming rivers has been the closest thing to get me.

Oh and while on close encounters do any of you take a back gun while stick bow hunting? I know a lot of guys who do. I personally have a big Bowie knife that is on my side and really don’t want the pistol there but…. What do you all do?

[T Downing]

#52225

I live in Black Bear and Cougar country and have never carried a firearm. Despite having a couple bears over the years mock charge me, growling, popping their jaws, etc. I usually carry two fixed blade knives on the outside of my pack on each side just in case. I figure if an animal charges I will attempt to put an arrow in it and when the animals gets on top of me, I will go to my knives. Part of the adventure for me.

[David Petersen]

#52245

The most experienced person I’ve known so far as repeated close encounters with grizzlies, is Doug Peacock, author of “The Grizzly Years.” Doug liked to say that he would feel both ridiculous and arrogant if he barged into grizz country, “the only place they have to live,” carrying a “piece,” and that if you took the time to study bears it wasn’t necessary anyhow. “Big cities,” Doug, a Vietnam Green Beret, would say, “that’s where I feel threatened enough to carry.” I will add that this was before pepper spray. Doug now carries spray.

I’m with Doug. I’ve had many close encounters with black bears, like just a few feet, and never once felt threatened though perhaps I should have. I sure hope I have some more. I had a mountain lion snarl at me once from close range, as did my wife, which is what they do if you come too close to a den with cubs and sometimes if you walk up on a fresh kill. It’s equivalent to Shane’s rattlesnake encounters–they are warning us, the only way they can, to stay clear. If they wanted to cause you trouble you’d never likely see or hear them coming. Neither my 94-pound wife nor I ever carry a firearm when hunting or in the woods, unless we’re camping somewhere that’s road accessible or in serious grizzly country like AK or around Glacier, when I keep a sawed-off 12 gauge double with rubber buckshot in the tent. I “make” her carry bear spray for her daily solo walks into the woods here, which will cover all problems except maybe rattlers, which we don’t have here in the mountains. She did once have a coyote try to nip her, but our Golden took care of that real fast. I absolutely do not fear bears, lions or any or mammal in N. America. I fear people, yellowjackets, and falling trees. Generally we fear what we don’t know much about, and are comfy with what we know. That’s why city folk fear bears and lions and I fear city folk. 😆

[David Petersen]

#52269

In a related thought that may be of as much interest to bear hunters in calculating where to place as shot, as it is to folks concerned about bear attacked … they are mostly hair. Well, to be precise, some bears have short flat hair that doesn’t appreciably increase their apparent size. But many or most are mostly hair. If I can figure how to get two pictures into the same post, here’s a series of a dry bear going into water–normal looking adult bear–and that same bear coming out wet and looking more like a dog than a bear. Just fyi …

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#52271

I’ve had numerous close encounters with black bears as well. They most certainly can be dangerous under the wrong circumstances, but I have never had an aggressive encounter with one. They almost always turn and run upon getting the first whiff of me (as does the fairer sex…), and if they don’t, a little yelling and they take off.

All of my on-the-ground encounters with grizz have been at a distance, and I hope to keep it that way.

Who knows how many cats I’ve walked right past and never knew it.

Had some quite close encounters with wolves as well, but they always seemed to be wary, and/or interested in something else, like the moose they were chasing when they ran right by me.

The hills behind my house are the western slope of the Tetons, which connects to the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, and there is no shortage of healthy and abundant black and grizzly populations. A grizz killed a pig on the farm behind us last year. I own numerous firearms, and practice with them regularly, and I still only carry bear spray in the backcountry (for bears, that is…). The growing body of evidence pretty strongly suggests that in real-world encounters, spray is far more effective in deterring bears. The number of seriously harmful encounters (for both parties) is also dramatically reduced in encounters where bear spray is used vs. firearms. Personally, I’d rather be able to spray a cloud in the general direction of a pissed-off, 600lb. animal coming at me at 35mph, than to try and hit it between the eyes with a high-caliber pistol under those high-adrenaline circumstances. Carrying and using effectively are two very different things when it comes to firearms and grizzlies.

[James Harvey]

#52314

You guys get me so excited talking about big predators!

[David Petersen]

#52335

Jim — think of it this way: YOU are the biggest predator in your neighborhood. Truly a scary thought, and true.

Bruce, aka Smithhammer (that’s not just a wee bit German, is it?) lives and hunts in about as “threatening” a predator situation as you can find in the lower 48, with an abundance of the full spectrum of bit toothy things. His experience speaks well for his opinions. Frankly, when I’m slinking around in the few remaining places wild enough to host grizzlies, wolves and the rest, far and away the one animal I most fear walking up on and surprising is a moose, esp. cow moose with calf, or a bull moose in rut. Truly unpredictable creatures, which makes them far more dangerous than usually-predictable “dedicated predators.” I’ve twice been chased by moose, and never by a bear etc.

Gee, this conversation makes me itch to head north for some summer camping again!

[sinawalli]

#52372

I agree with Smithhammer! The majority of my hunting takes place in griz/black bear, wolf and cougar country. A pistol isn’t a option as this is Canada, and only criminals can carry them…A short barreled shottie is in camp, but to pack it with me, well , not going to happen! I carry enough stuff already. You really have to train with one, especially a pistol grip to shoot accurately! If you think you are going to rack a shell, and lethally hit a charging griz at close range you’re dreaming! Better off paying attention to your surroundings, watching your 6, and carry a big knife and bear spray IMHO! Did have a wolf walk up to within 25 yards last fall. That was real cool!

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#52415

I would completely concur with Dave re: moose. You never know what the hell they’re going to do. One will give you the most benign, goofy look and wander away, and the next will lower its massive rack and want to steamroll you. Cows w/calves and bulls in rut are right up there with grizz for being the top things in this environment that I try to keep my distance from.

[Etter1]

#52422

Bears are strange creatures for me to think about. I guess I’ve known them my whole life. I killed my first bear several years before my first deer. Whenever I go bear hunting, I get a few butterflies during the preparation. Up here, that means while walking the 3-5 miles to my spot in the dark. It’s the idea of them that gets me anxious, but when I actually encounter one, I’m never worried.

Last year, I was sitting in a logging road, waiting for daylight when a bear “barked” about 30 yards away. Then for the next ten minutes, he, or she, sat there growling at me. I remember nocking an arrow, backing into the far side of the trail and smiling the whole time. It was pretty cool to me.

Another time, sitting over a bait in Canada, I had my biggest bear ever stand up against the tree I was in and sniff at my boots through the stand.

Black bears are nothing to fear, except in the rarest of situations.

I only have limited experience with lions, but I’m not too worried about them either. Grizz might be a different story. Grizz might get my hackles up.

[SDMFer]

#52428

Since Dave brought it up, if anybody is looking for a good read I would recommend Grizzly Years, Essential Grizzly, or Walking it Off by Doug Peacock.

As far as close encounters of my own was a couple years ago when I ended up way too close to a cow moose with an older calf and two bulls vying for her attention. I didn’t know what to do so I sat tight behind a tree and watch the bulls push each other around. Lucky I guess.

[WyoStillhunter]

#53247

I have been known to carry what I call “skunkupine medicine” when hiking with my dog (usually .38 Spec. revolver). I expect the dog will listen to me and we can back away unscathed but I can’t be sure of that. We also have mountain lion and bears locally. Encounters are highly unlikely.

Moose are an issue and can be encountered locally. I needed to cross a huge wet meadow of beaver ponds, willows and brush one day with my dog. Every few steps I hollered, “Hey moose!” because I did not want to surprise one. There were none around that day.

That said, I did call up a mountain lion using a cow call during elk season in 1998. I even had a lion license, the only one I ever bought. I was gun hunting for elk but fully licensed when the opportunity occurred. The lion rug hangs on the wall in front of my desk. To be truthful I must say I was in no danger from the lion, it was just coming to check out my calling.

I figure my brain is my best defense in SE Wyoming — being fully aware of my surroundings, considering my options, and making good choices.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#53292

WyoStillhunter wrote:

I figure my brain is my best defense in SE Wyoming — being fully aware of my surroundings, considering my options, and making good choices.

Well said, and true just about anywhere, imo. I think that developing ‘situational awareness’ as a continual good habit goes a long way toward avoiding unwelcome encounters (and that also means learning to trust your “6th sense” sometimes…). Especially when bowhunting, since you’re basically doing everything the exact opposite of what is recommended in bear country – moving quietly, working the wind, etc.

I know a guy here in the valley who unintentionally called in a lion with a calf call a couple seasons ago. The cat suddenly appeared about 15 feet away from him, and just crouched there staring at him, but not really giving any indication that it planned to leave, until the guy’s buddy showed up, and then it turned and walked away. But not in a hurry.

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#53308

All your posts reinforce my personal choice: My only plan as far as grizzlies are concerned is to leave grizzly country alone, period! I have absolutely no desire to hike or hunt where they live. I will keep turning to Discovery channel to get my fixes! 😀

[David Petersen]

#53330

Aw, come on now, Alex! That’s just the French half of you talking. 😛 Surely the Swiss half craves to explore the most pristine and gorgeous wilderness in the lower 48. Frankly, having spent many years trying to locate and watch grizzlies around Yellowstone and esp. Glacier, until you learn where and how to look, you’re damn lucky to ever get a glimpse of a grizz. Just don’t make the mistake I did one night up along the Canadian border and have a roast big greasy smelly sausages on a campfire. I was young and dumb then and assumed the fire would burn off all stench of grease, but it didn’t and we had to abandon that camp in the middle of the night. Now, being old and dumb, I know better. 😆

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#53374

AlexBugnon wrote: All your posts reinforce my personal choice: My only plan as far as grizzlies are concerned is to leave grizzly country alone, period! I have absolutely no desire to hike or hunt where they live. I will keep turning to Discovery channel to get my fixes! 😀

Geez, Alex – there goes my invitation! 🙄

If it’s any comfort, I bet you can run faster than I can (6 screws in my left ankle…), and that’s all that matters! 😀

[wahoo]

#53406

took a hike a couple years ago and saw 3 grizzly and 5 blacks all in one hike had a great time. Been treed by a moose skiing in Smiths neck of the woods ( had dogs – my fault) been charged by a momma javie ( I stepped on her little ones by accident). See a lot of wolfs but never any probs I don’t think they like me much. I don’t carry a gun but my wife wants me to – I tell her it’s too much weight.Been charged by a cow elk ( my fault spotting with my GSD ). I think the biggest danger here besides people are cow moose with calfs.

[Charles Ek]

#53432

David Petersen wrote: Just don’t make the mistake I did one night up along the Canadian border and have a roast big greasy smelly sausages on a campfire. I was young and dumb then and assumed the fire would burn off all stench of grease, but it didn’t and we had to abandon that camp in the middle of the night. Now, being old and dumb, I know better. 😆

And don’t make the mistake I made one warmish winter up along the Canadian border and open a can of sardines in the tent. I broke my own “no food in the tent” rule ‘cuz, hey, it was midwinter and what could happen? Well, bruin (Blackie, in this case) happened. I spent all night holding onto my Newfoundland dog as the bear circled the tent, trying to get to the fish without tangling with the dog.

[David Petersen]

#53487

Ah, amigos! What a pleasure and privilege to converse with and learn from folks who have been there and done that, and so realize that our best defense in worrisome unfamiliar situation is to not screw-up. We are our own worst predators.

Among my closest friends is a 32 years deep-bush AK subsistence hunter, trapper and fisher. More than 100 miles to the nearest village or road, and even bush plane access is limited. This guy’s real life far outreaches any “reality TV” or move or book faux adventure I’m aware of. Yet he “makes little of it.” And when I ask him to tell me about his most memorable near-death experiences, it’s never a bear or wolf or any such (though he has a great cow-calf moose story, and wolves took two of his sled dogs last winter, etc.), but rather always something he did wrong and the cold, falling through ice, always “I knew better!” and never anything to do with toothy animals. My theory is that we worry about dangerous animals in part because that’s our deep evolutionary past

–we evolved as prey as well as predators; thus it’s a residual in our genes. Also, as I stated in my first of too many posts on this interesting thread, because we fear what we don’t know, and thus don’t know how to deal with short of a gun. I think you city guys, and your wives and kids too, are far far far “braver” than me or Bruce or the others here who speak of our wild encounters, to live where and as you do, yet take it in stride. Everything is relative, eh? And good thing too. Otherwise what would we have that’s so much fun to talk about? As much time as I spend in the woods, and as little as I spend on the roads (compared to most folks today), I firmly believe the most dangerous thing I do is to get in the truck and head for town. If a wild animal kills me, it will far most likely be a deer crossing the road at night that I can’t swerve to miss.

But then, hey, it’s sure not a sin to have a firearm in your tent at night! Well, maybe it is, if you also have canned tuna in the tent! Or have just grilled stinky sausages for dinner in deep grizzly country.

Mea culpa, mea culpa maxima …

[David Coulter]

#53508

Good thread. I’m pretty much with Alex, although I’ve been in grizzly country, north west and Glacier. I was nervous. I tried to get to a beautiful pool below a water fall at the upper end of a lake in Glacier. I was carrying a nine foot fly rod and suddenly realized I couldn’t see more than about 8 or 10 feet through the brush. I just backed out. Chicken? I suppose, but I also knew that this was new country for me and I really didn’t know what I was doing. I fished the lake until near dark and it was a quick stepping walk down that dark trail to camp. It was like whistling with a mouth full of crackers.

I grew up in the Poconos, rural, but really the sixth borough of NYC. We don’t have anything that will eat you here and it’s kind of nice like that.

There are two great stories about not making it out. One is by Jack London, “To Build a Fire.” The other is “To the Open Water” by Jesse Hill Ford. Great adventure from the safety of home. Make it better by turning the lights off and reading with a headlamp. dwc

[wildschwein]

#53599

While I can understand most of the sentiments put forth thus far, I don’t necessarily agree.

I also live in an area full of predators (Grizz, Blacks, Wolf, Lions, Coyotes( 2 Coyotes killed a jogger in Eastern Canada 2 years ago)) and have multiple encounters with most of them yearly (Lions not so much). While the vast majority of them were harmless, some have put a scare into me. Like the time a pack of 6 Wolves approached me rather than run away, even after I identified myself as a human. Or how a sow Blackie and her two cubs snuck with 30 feet of me last weekend and circled and huffed until I abandoned my freshly killed chocolate colored bruin.

These are just a couple of examples of toothy encounters that have scared me. And I don’t doubt that I will have many more.

Now I am not saying everyone should be packing “heat” when they go into the woods. But everyone should be carrying something. Axe, Bear spray, Bowie knife etc. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[David Petersen]

#54161

Justin — Maybe you can refresh my memory on this, but weren’t those killer coyotes found to have significant domestic dog genes? In a perhaps parallel situation, on Vancouver Island, where the wolf population is extremely high, in every case where a wolf has been aggressive toward humans and was killed, necropsy showed that it had a percentage of dog genes. It apparently doesn’t take much domestic input for a wild canid to lose its natural fear of humans. Long ago I lived for a while in the woods of N. Carolina, where an infamous pack of feral dogs roamed. Now that was scary.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#54170

wildschwein wrote:

Now I am not saying everyone should be packing “heat” when they go into the woods. But everyone should be carrying something. Axe, Bear spray, Bowie knife etc. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Agreed. For me, bear spray and a knife are basic items whenever I head out.

I used to work in a fly shop just outside of Grand Teton National Park. We also sold a few sundry items for tourists visiting the park, and bear spray was one of those items. I was always boggled by the number of people who would ask,

“Do I really need to carry bear spray?” 🙄

But my favorite was the lady who brought a can of bear spray up to the counter and asked, “how much do I need to put on?”

I kept a straight face and said, “All of it, ma’am.” 8)

[shaneharley]

#54242

Speaking of dogs I just remembered while deer hunting one time I was sitting on the ground and three wild dogs came by. I was able to quietly get my single action .45 revolver drawn and on the dogs. They walked about 15 yards from me. The last one stopped and looked at me and growled a little and then left. In hind sight I should have taken them all out or at least of tried as I’m no John Wayne with a wheel gun. But I didn’t want to scare the deer that never showed up and or didn’t want to trigger a response in 3 large dogs that might not go well for me. So they passed unscathed.

Years ago I trapped and had to check my traps going on dark. As I was walking down a trail about 15 yards or so ahead I seen a black bear cross. Huh… I never thought there were bears down this low. So I decided to jack a round in my .22 which promptly got jammed. So not really familiar with bears at the time I carried the rifle like a baseball bat as the best defense I could come up with at the time while I finished checking traps…

Your sow and cub stories kind of got me thinking. I harvested my first bear this year. I used a rifle as my bow isn’t here yet. But I shot him across a small creek from where my van was at that tried to get me only weeks earlier when the rain raised its level substantially. So I shot him and he went right down. I was very excited since this was my first time hunting bears. A lot of hard work went into it and I got one. No bait, or anything like that just pounding the ground. Anyway after it looked like he was dead I went back to my van and got my pack frame and stuff. I decided to leave my rifle and pistol in the van and just take my knife that way if I fell or had to swim again I wouldn’t have the weight. So I wade across the creek and it’s starting to get dark. The darker it gets the more I start thinking I should have brought my .22 pistol at least. Anyway I sang loud to keep the bears and cougars at bay… I’m not sure if it worked but I left well after dark and was unmolested by any critters looking to steal my bear. I packed that bear in one trip and thought I was going to die. Hence the thread about getting in shape. I knew if I tripped crossing the waist deep creek I might have trouble getting back up. But I made it. Almost lost my cookies after I got to the road after a steep climb. Anyway after seeing your threads about sows coming in I feel fortunate to not have had a run in.

I plan to do some bear hunting with my longbow this year and might need to carry some bear spray just in case. I think if I were in griz country I would pack a sidearm and spray.

I type this stuff on my phone. So if the spelling and grammar sucks it’s because it is a pain to edit so I don’t.

[Ptaylor]

#54556

I am in agreement with most of what has been said on this thread. If interested you should check out these two papers published by Tom Smith, et al:

Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska, 2012.

Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska, 2008.

Both are in the Journal of Wildlife Management and can be found on Google Scholar. Below I will paraphrase what I think are the most important findings in this study:

In the firearms study they found that there was no difference in outcome between people that used their guns and people that had a gun but did not use it…Interesting. As well, 56% of bear and gun-armed-people incidents resulted in injury. Compare that to 2% of bear and pepper spray-armed-people incidents resulting in injury, none of which required hospitalization (in the second paper). 100% of people that had to use bear spray walked away with their lives. Gun armed people were able to kill 61% of bears, however, “Once a bear charged, odds of firearm success decreased nearly 7-fold…” (first paper).

It seems obvious to me that it is easier and safer (for us and the bears) to carry pepper spray instead of a gun. You just have to get over the John Wayne thing, I’ve been there. I’ve worked a number of seasons in the Canadian Rockies on cougar and wolf studies, and there’s not much more to make a guy feel tough as carrying around a short barrel, pistol grip shotgun with a folding metal stock and 8 rounds in the magazine. Truth of the matter is I was nowhere near prepared, mentally, for an encounter that would require the use of such a shoulder bruising weapon. 7 years later I’ve had a lot more experience with bears, lions, and wolves, and I am better at reading their body language now. I am more confident now without a gun because I know how an animal reacts when it is signaling its intent of not attacking, but instead bluffing, and I know that I have to stand my ground and not run.

That being said, everything changes when your in close to a big animal. This past season I had a number of encounters with black bears while hiking into my ambush location. When the moon was new and the night was black I had to navigate through a series of deer oak stands (a short oak bush), and in the pitch black I stumbled into a few bears. There’s nothing to get your heart racing like a bear whoofing at you 10 yards away and you can’t see him! At those moments I decided to scare the deer away and announce myself to the woods, and all 3 times those bears left the area.

Its important to know what you’re getting into. Just like packing for the cold weather, you have to be prepared for a close encounter with large animals. But I would never trade a single, heart beating moment for mountains free of large predators. It keeps life exciting to have these predators around.

preston

[David Petersen]

#54589

Preston–thank you! Your combo of presenting documented research and your own obviously extensive “pucker-factor” experiences, as opposed to mere opinion, really helps those of us who are seriously trying to find the best way to feel safe in bear (etc.) country, rather than merely gain support for what we intend to do anyhow (aka in psycho-speak, “decreasing cognitive dissonance”). Canada’s Stephen Herrero, the top N. American “bear attacks” expert, concurs with you and your sources re the high effectiveness of spray and the low effectiveness of firearms.

But that said, I openly admit that the only time I’m scared of bears is in a tent at night. In grizz country I rarely sleep at night. Thing is, no way in heck you can use bear spray in a tent, unless you want to commit suicide by pepper spray. And those few bears, so happily so very rare, who are intent on getting you (or most often your food or stinky clothing in the tent with you) don’t come through the front door but whack away at the side of the tent. In such cases it would be really nice to have a firearm under your pillow to whack back with. Just be sure it’s not a “friend” whacking your tent and growling in the dark as a “joke,” as once happened to me as a kid. To again quote Doug Peacock, his advise is to use the biggest tent you can pack, and sleep in the middle of it. He never carries a gun but keeps a big knife, unsheathed, under his pillow … “Not to stab at a bear with, but to slice open the tent on the side opposite of the bear in order to have a way out.” Doug also says sleeping in a tent is far safer than without a tent.

And one more thought: A few years ago, when I occasionally was working for the LA Times, I did a story on some good friends of mine, locals here and he’s a trad bowhunter, who were floating a wilderness river in ANWR, AK, and came upon the scene of an obvious recent bear attack. What a story! The same bear that had torn up a camp and killed both the residents, chased my friends 5 miles down the river and nearly got ’em. Turns out that a man and woman who were doing everything right re camping in bear country, nonetheless were attacked in their tent in the night by a big brown that ate the woman and was working on the man (or vice versa, I don’t recall) when my friends floated by. When the “rescue” people finally arrived, in the remains of the tent they found a lever-action rifle with the lever open, suggesting that the man had tried to lever a round into the rifle in self-defense during the attack but was too slow. This suggests that to be safest, to either have a round in the chamber (and a 12-bore with 00 buck is far superior to a rifle in such close-range situations), or perhaps better even yet, a heavy-caliber handgun, esp. a revolver, that you can use with one hand in a tight fix in the dark without thought about a safety, etc.

If I’m tent-camping in AK I do generally keep a firearm in my tent (I’ve enjoyed three such trips). When hunting or otherwise walking around in daylight there, I don’t need that heavy weight on my hip or shoulder and feel much safer with just bear spray and my bow and my natural senses. In none of those trips to bush AK, by the way, have I ever had a bear problem. In many, many camping trips to Yellowstone and Glacier country, always specifically deep into grizzly country in hopes of seeing and photographing bears, not a single bear problem. In 32 years of hunting and camping, often without even a tent, here in the Rockies, and with more close black bear encounters than I can recall, not a single problem. With close to three dozen elk and deer, all or part of which I had to leave out overnight, not an ounce has been lost to bears. That said, I did once have a young black bear slap at me through a screened bedroom window here at home. It was my fault, as such things usually are.

In the end, this recurring conversation is both practical and a beam of light into the human psychology … which is why it’s always interesting. I would consider it a blessing to die that way compared to other more usual ways … just no time soon. 😆

[Ralph]

#54656

Just some info I found that I thought was interesting to go along with this thread. Being careful, common sense, knowledge of our surroundings and sometimes just plain dumb luck are all that keeps us out of trouble.

” You are 12 times more likely to die of a bee sting than a bear attack (120 times more likely compared to a black bear)

You are 10 times more likely to die from a dog attack than a bear attack (45 times more likely compared to a black bear attack)

1 person out of 16,000 commits murder but only 1 grizzly bear out of 50,000 ever kills someone and only 1 black bear out of one million does. So people are much more dangerous than bears! Fear people and respect bears.

There are about 750,000 black bears in North America and on average there is less than one black bear killing per year.

For each person killed by a black bear attack there are 13 people killed by snakes, 17 by spiders, 45 by dogs, 120 by bees, 150 by tornadoes, 374 by lightning, and 60,000 by humans.”

[tailfeather]

#54666

Cool topic. The gators and the snakes down here don’t bother me, but grizzlies get the old heart pounding. I’m a big fan of pepper spray, but have never had to use it. Wrt to firearms, there’s too many issues with firearms in other states outside of hunting season.

I remember seeing a lot of grizz tracks going both ways on a steep trail I was on in the Absaroka Wilderness. I had to get through there regardless so I started singing an old Marshall Tucker album at full volume to keep from surprising em around the bend of the trail. Not long after, I saw a sow grizzly and cub at about 80 yards…luckily they were on the other side of a steep ravine….I just sat down and watched em forage and flip around logs through binos. What a treat to be alone and on foot many miles from the nearest road watching the baddest critter in North America. Not much cooler than that! But I always cook was away from camp and bear bag food. The least little nighttime noise in Grizzly country keeps me up and wide eyed. I think keeping from surprising them is always a good tactic, though it goes against our nature as hunters to consciously make noise.

Regarding moose…..my poor wife got skint to hell and back keeping a small lodgepole between here and an angry cow moose. She was seconds before giving the cow a face full of pepper spray when the calf ran away and the cow followed suit. Oh….and my wife was pregnant at the time.:D

[wildschwein]

#54751

David Petersen wrote: Justin — Maybe you can refresh my memory on this, but weren’t those killer coyotes found to have significant domestic dog genes? In a perhaps parallel situation, on Vancouver Island, where the wolf population is extremely high, in every case where a wolf has been aggressive toward humans and was killed, necropsy showed that it had a percentage of dog genes. It apparently doesn’t take much domestic input for a wild canid to lose its natural fear of humans. Long ago I lived for a while in the woods of N. Carolina, where an infamous pack of feral dogs roamed. Now that was scary.

Actually I hadn’t heard of that before. Makes sense though. I remember it was quite a shock to hear the “lowly” coyote was the perp in that attack. Then again when they collect in numbers they can get pretty brave.

[Ptaylor]

#54778

Dave,

I don’t want to give the impression that I’m braver than I really am. Last fall, I had a sow with cubs lunge at me from 30 yards, and encounters like those make my knees shake! And I agree with you, having a firearm in camp can be useful. Although, keeping a knife under the pillow to cut an exit hole in the tent is something I never thought of!

Preston

[wahoo]

#55316

women just got stomped by a moose in Missoula yesterday . She had 4 or 5 unleashed dogs and the moose with calf . Bad situation , dogs went after moose women tries to get dogs moose get women . Human error and a bad one at that. She was 2 miles in and must of had a phone and called for help. I believe she is fine – just beat up bad. It is that time of year. See ya going caping

[David Coulter]

#61468

A question for you guys who pack a handgun. I’m in black bear country, so this does not really apply to me. When you are carrying a pistol, you’re packing a caliber that you would not consider anywhere big enough if it were in a rifle, right? I know it’s last resort and up close and personal, but I wonder how effective a 44 mag would be on a truly POed big bear or moose. All this and not to mention having the presence of mind to be able to aim the thing. Of course if you’re in the dark in the tent there’s no aiming anyway. Thoughts? dwc

[Brennan Herr]

#61491

Using a firearm in close quarters is easy…you just need to practice a bunch…same as you do with your bow. Killing a bear as with people is hard…a good hit may kill them but they can do a lot of damage on the way out…but at least you get him to cross over with you. I like a gun for people and the spray for a bear. Although I haven’t had any problems with bears yet…just people.

[David Petersen]

#62104

Guys, I guarantee you the bear spray works on people, having accidentally sprayed myself twice over the years. 😆 It’s far, far nastier than the CS or CN you may have been exposed to in military training.

[Ralph]

#62345

Had to practice twice did ya Dave? 😆 I’m not the only one that learns hard.

Down here I have no bear or moose worries, pretty much only people and pigs. Perhaps a rabid critter of some kind. I’ve fired expert with a 1911 since I first had my hands on one many, many, many 😀 (OK) years ago so that’s what I tote with me unless I have to go concealed. If I’m gonna hit something it’ll more than likely happen with my 1911 as with anything else. I have full confidence in a .45 ACP JHP and confidence is 99% of the game. Now if I go to big critter country I’ll probably adapt to something else.

You guys have pretty much convinced me that pepper spay can cure a lot of evil. Wish I knew somebody with some pigs. Be interesting to see what those nasty things do when blasted with bear spray. Don’t particularly want to experiment on one that’s pissed at me. Definitely not concerned about “Not tested on animals” in this case.

[Col Mike]

#62587

I love tracking and stalking black bears–have this year 1 sow with 2 cubs and 2 two year old males across the street in our little patch of wild. Last year I started packing bear spray in my day pack.

We have had cubs run in front of our dog teams with mommy right behind–that will get your attention.

Have backpacked numerous times in Ak. and loved when we viewed grizz. Always follow the rules in grizz country (sans the bells):D

When mushing, hunting, or hiking in moose country–be careful–most carry a gun–a big long one.

My scariest encounter—on a caribou hunt (gun) in AK (84) while on point with 1 sailor and 2 Marines behind me, through a dense alder thicket (do they grow any other way?) I point out a fresh grizz track in the center of the trail–the sound of 3 rifles locking and loading behind me–raised the sparse hair on my neck. I turned and said “gentleman unload those weapons and put them on safe”!

But if you feel you need a side arm pardner–R2 is right on forget the hype of all that new stuff the .45ACP gives maximum penetration (30″ of flesh) at pistol range–forget the movies–that’s 25 yards max. Mine is a full sized M-1911 frame custom built (by our precision weapons facility at Quantico) receiver is 6 inches with all the whiz bang and whistles that go with that. Easy to carry on the hip or concealed. I only carry in people country.

Hope this helps

Semper Fi

Mike

[James Harvey]

#62799

David Petersen wrote: Jim — think of it this way: YOU are the biggest predator in your neighborhood. Truly a scary thought, and true.

Dave, there’s some irony to that, as every time I’ve ever been scared in the woods at night, it turned out to be my imagination 😉

[Ptaylor]

#22368

Yesterday I went for a hike to find some animals or elk sheds, and My friend and I encountered a black bear. We were on an old logging road leading to a meadow/old cut and the bear and us spotted each other at the same time, about 40 yards away. The bear moved down behind a dip and since the wind was in our favor, we crawled in closer to about 25 yards. Then she stood up and started running in our general direction. That’s when I noticed she had cubs, and for split second wasn’t sure what was happening. But she was just running to the closest tree, which the cubs promptly climbed. The little cubs were half the size of an adult raccoon, but skinnier, really cute buggers. For the next 45 seconds or so, the sow paced back and forth moaning (which I think was meant for her cubs) and jaw popping (which was meant for us). And then she went busting out of the brush, ditching her cubs, and running away from us. We backed out quickly to let her reunite with her cubs.

Just another example of how timid black bears are, even sows with really young cubs. That’s not to say they aren’t aggressive, but I don’t think its the norm.

[sinawalli]

#22584

dwcphoto wrote: A question for you guys who pack a handgun. I’m in black bear country, so this does not really apply to me. When you are carrying a pistol, you’re packing a caliber that you would not consider anywhere big enough if it were in a rifle, right? I know it’s last resort and up close and personal, but I wonder how effective a 44 mag would be on a truly POed big bear or moose. All this and not to mention having the presence of mind to be able to aim the thing. Of course if you’re in the dark in the tent there’s no aiming anyway. Thoughts? dwc

There was a guy here in Alberta who was attacked by a momma griz with a cub while bowhunting. He had a hand gun, not sure what caliber, but he emptied a mag into her, she backed off the attack, but when he reloaded, she attacked again. He emptied most of that mag before she retreated. Luckily he had cell service, and although really chewed up, he was rescued and survived! The bear didn’t, she was found dead a short distance away. How many rounds hit? Not sure! It certainly would have been a different outcome had he not had it. He still might face chrimin charges for carrying the pistol without a permit! Only cops and criminals allowed to carry handguns in Canada!!

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