Carbon vs Wood which is tougher

[USMC 82-86]

#5365

I was just curious about experience with both materials. I know that carbon is more consistant in weight and straightness, that is a given. I just want to know about experiences with actual taking of game. I have to say for myself I have used both and it is more work to get the weight up on carbon. I have not used the heavier inserts always standard and then the heavy head and get good flight. I have also used wood a lot and got great results, I have actually shot my best groups with wood and have done so with some arrows that were not straight as they could have been. I have no explanation for this, it has just been my experience. I shoot well with carbon but seem to have more flyers and the wood always seems to go where I look, Can anyone help with this matter. I try to keep a open mind but maybe since I started with wood it is just more natural for me and I grew to see the flight of the arrow better. I shoot instinctive and once I reach anchor she’s gone. I am trying to slow down an tried a three under release on yesterday and got my first robin hood with the longbow. I got off track there, anyway I have found wood to be just as tough when hard impact occurs. I shot 2 old arrows one carbon one wood into a steel band on a bale of hay and the wood actually took two shots before failure. The carbon arrow had the point pushed about 1.5 inches back into the shaft and it split about another 2- 3 inches. The robin hood did occur with the carbon arrow with the 3 under release at about 25 yards. I saw a demo of Rick Welch shooting school and this did give me more consistant groups and again the wood was better for me. Does the wood allow the bow to be more efficient or do I need to make the carbons heavier. How do I make the carbons tougher up front without adding shaft sleeves or what ever that was that I saw posted on carbons. Thanks 💡

[LimbLover]

#40375

Which carbon were you using?

The Heritage 250 or Beman MFX has just as much weight as most aluminums. 10gpi for the 250 I believe and 11gpi for the 350. The aluminums are usually at around 12.

I’m not very familiar with wood. Two friends shoot POC’s and they break them often. After one night of range shooting half their quivers are bent from impact. I’ve got another friend who shot Ash shafts that were at least the same diameter as a 2315 aluminum and he had the same problem. I’ve only broke 2 heritage shafts and both of them were due to ricochets off of concrete or the steel poles that hold 3d targets. I’ve never had a carbon that pushed in the way you described. Ripforce had an arrow or two do that but they were cheapies – Carbon Express Lite 4560. A cheap carbon will fail like that.

That is why I switched to Carbon from aluminum. I like the concept of either having a broken arrow or a straight one. I don’t like worrying about bending and what not.

Now…I’m not knocking wood arrows. I actually am debating on placing an order with http://www.allwoodarrows.com to try 1/2 a dozen. I love the nostalgia, quietness, and the beauty of them.

As far as making them tougher up front without weight tubes? Move a size up in stiffness from what you are shooting and add a brass insert instead of the stock one. It adds at least 50g to the front end and they hold up better. The Heritage 350 is my hunting arrow and one of the most durable I have seen.

[rayborbon]

#40507

Carbon is pretty tough.

I found some woods to be pretty tough too. POC is not the most durable and arrows often break right behind the field points or heads. Consider using footed shafts in that case.

I shoot carbon and wood…. but wood usually flies better and more consistently. Especially at longer ranges from what I can tell. I have hunted with both and they can each produce results which are comfortable for me to use.

[George D. Stout]

#40531

I don’t buy arrows for their toughness; I buy arrows for their consistency and how they fly from my bows. Toughness is only a consideration if I’m shooting at Rock Chucks at long yardages. 😆 All I want to know is that arrow will correct and be flying perfectly within several feet of the bow upon release.

Most woods break behind the taper because they are not seated well, or they don’t have an accurate taper. They will never be as tough as a good carbon, but they will always be as effective in the hunting woods as any arrow ever made. And by the way, I have shot stumps all afternoon with a quiver of cedar arrows and never ruined half of them; more than likely the issue would be a side hit on a tree that would break a shaft. Normally I would have one or two at most that needed attention after I was through shooting.

Carbon is not the perfect arrow….it is a very good arrow, and most need to have weight added to the front, or footed to prevent splitting fore and aft. They will also crush from the side and should be checked before shooting frequently. They make a very nice hunting arrow, of course and are quite durable.

I prefer wood or aluminum; aluminum is the most consistent in weight and spine without adding tip weight or other material within the shaft. I’ve also found good aluminums to be tough under normal circumstances…and you can straighten them. Wood will always be around and a favorite of many archers…to me they are the only arrow to use with self or all wood bows.

You can always foot wood arrows to add toughness, and you can also foot aluminums with a larger size over the end to add strength there. From what I see, we have a great selection of material for making arrows, with little need to rule any of them out.

[Steertalker]

#40536

In my opinion this is a no-brainer….carbon is by far more durable and tougher than wood. In actuality both wood and aluminum arrows wear out over time. In my experience, a set of woods is worn out after about 50 shots. Aluminums….a bit more than that. On the other hand carbons are either not broken or broken. A set of carbons will last me indefinitely or until I break one….which is rare. They are straighter, more consistant in weight and spine and much easier to tune. As far as getting them to the correct weight, I’ve had no problems in that area as well.

Brett

[USMC 82-86]

#40908

Thanks everyone I appreciate the input. Limblover I use the gold tip traditional 5575 with standard insert I think it is around 15 grains and 175 points. The arrow is 29.5″ and I shoot it from a Tomahawk Desert fox 56#@28″ I pull all 28″ and am actually getting better extension in my draw and may be closer to 28.5″ I have been coming to full draw and hold for 2-3 seconds let down and repeat about 2-3 times before I loose the arrow. I saw this drill the other day and gave it a try I also give a little extra squeeze of the shoulder blades after coming to full draw. I jumped off course there a little bit but my shooting is improving out to about 30-35 yds. I thought I might need to go to the brass or steel inserts, Does anyone use the collars that fit behind the insert as well? The arrow with the setup I am using is only 485 grains I want closer to 550. I don’t think I will ever want to go beyond 600-620 grains just me, not sure what kind of rainbow I will be shooting beyond 25-30 yds. I try to hunt with the same setup I use for 3-D and I have found that around 550 or close to that allows me to be accurate at distance and still have a arrow I can hunt with as well. I set these arrows up before I received the bow and I guess I should have gone with other inserts to begin with.

[CarolinaBob]

#41512

Carbon is tough, but I shoot a longbow and like wood. Whispering Winds hex shafts are pretty tough. I keep them straight by using a AAE straightner. I also like alums and the X7s 2114s are a good choice.

[LimbLover]

#41608

You could try the screw in Gold Tip weights too. They screw in behind the insert. The allen wrench to install them is fairly expensive. My buddy made his own out of a coat hanger and an allen wrench and it works fine.

50 shots to wear out an aluminum or wood arrow???? Is that factoring in breaking or bending? I had the same set of 2117 XX75s for 4 months and I shot every day – at least 20 arrows. What are you shooting at??

If I shot an all wood bow I would use all wood arrows too. It just seems wrong to use anything else.

I’ve decided that I’m going to give wood arrows a shake. I may have to place an order. I don’t think they will replace my carbons though. I shoot inside 3ds a lot and we have some risky shots. I can’t be breaking those every day.

[Chris Shelton]

#41666

I have 8 of my original Beeman ICS bowhunter shafts that I still use from 2 years ago. They were flu flu’s, hunting arrows, when I broke all the Carbon Express heritage shafts. Then they were flu flu’s again, and were launched into the air after geese, then small game arrows, where they were launched into rocks and trees many a times. And now they are hunting arrows again! I have three sets of ICS bowhunter shafts all the same, just different spines for my different bows. Mine dont split, I have never had one split and i have given them plenty of opportunities. I know guys that have wood arrows that are just as durable, but they put alot more effort into making them that way. I just throw on some brass inserts and fletch them, and I am done! I think it is probably easier to get high FOC with carbon shafts . . .

[George D. Stout]

#41743

Steertalker, don’t know about your experience, but mine goes through five decades…starting a sixth. I have used the same aluminum arrows for shooting field rounds a summer (224 arrows per round, so about 2000 shots per summer at minimum)…then I used them for hunting and indoor shooting; the same arrows. Your experience would be in the 1% category overall I would suspect. I have also shot wood arrows for hundreds of shots; many were retapered, refletched and shot many times.

I don’t know why folks think carbons will last forever….read some posts on other forums about carbons stress….they are suject to the same bending as other shafts and fibers will wear down….just like any fibrous material. I will look for that discussion and post the findings.

It’s okay to be in love with carbon arrows, but lets be fair about which we speak. Aluminum arrows will last thousands of shots…maybe hundreds of thousands into target medium. My experience is over multi-thousands and many decades. If you are shooting concrete blocks, steel posts, or freight trains….you will certainly damage them.

[USMC 82-86]

#41770

George,

My experience has been about the same as yours, but mine was with wooden arrows. I don’t know how to explain it but I do seem to shoot more consistant with wood. I had a set of POC that a gentleman in N.C. built for my old bow about 10 yrs ago and I shot those arrows for a little over 2 yrs they held up fine. The arrows that I shot at the target earlier this week were 2 old arrows one carbon one wood the carbon failed on first impact the wood took two hits and broke at BOP. I did shoot these arrows at a steel band on the bale but I just wanted to see what would happen, I am sure both will last a long time in the field.

[George D. Stout]

#41836

I’ve got some cedar arrows from the 1950’s that were shot for target over a summer. They belonged to someone who was a very good target shooter and now they just reside on my rack.
I have cedars that I still shoot from at least four years ago. I broke three of that dozen, and lost four of them…the other five are still usable.

Anything fibrous, such as wood, fiberglass or carbon will weaken over time if used significantly….that’s life, but the notion that it is only for a few hundred shots is ridiculous. I don’t base my feelings on conjecture, I base them on experience..period, and lots of it.

I have never seen aluminum tubing weaken in spine over time and shooting….and I have shot them more than most folks I would guess…at least way more than the average shooter. If I don’t bend one beyond help, or break them, they will last for decades.

I would honestly say more arrows are abused through pulling from targets than the shooting process….or just plain abuse overall. My granddaughter shoots some 1616 aluminum arrows that my wife used extensively in the late 1970’s for over a dozen field rounds; they are still straight and at spine and fly great.
I also have eight usable 1816, 24SRTX from the early 60’s that were used for field rounds. They are straight and work great as well.

I would venture to say that carbon, wood and aluminum are ten times more durable than most folks realize. Most good shafting will be broken or lost before it’s worn out through wear. I think we should all be happy we have so many good choices. Whoooooda thunkit’ when Doug Easton figured out that first aluminum tubing in the 1930’s.

And, for those who think aluminum isn’t traditional for some reason, it was used to win the 1939 Nationals.

[USMC 82-86]

#44070

Okay everyone, I was shooting yesterday big surprise.:shock:
Anyway I am writing this because it refers to my initial post on this matter.

I shot two arrows earlier to see how tough they were old arrows if you recall. I still can’t explain how the wood took two hits before failure. I can shed some light on the carbon failure because yesterday I shot from 35 yds and hit the support steel on the target bad shot and the GT 5575 held up beautifully. The point and insert popped out with no damage to the shaft at all the nock also popped out and the arrow was about 10 yds short of coming all the way back to me.

When I compared the 2 GT 5575 arrows the point on the first was pushed into the shaft at a angle, the hit from yesterday showed the tip was completely flat and straight.
I guess I didn’t notice the damage to the tip as much as the to the shaft. I think I may have made a decision on quality based on one incident.

[Steertalker]

#45056

George,

Can you shoot woods/aluminums a long time(?)….most definitely. Are the dynamic characteristics of a set of woods/aluminums the same after two or three hundreds shots(?)….I doubt it. George…I don’t have 6 decades of shooting under my belt so I respect your experience. Nevertheless, the very nature of wood and aluminum causes them to wear out over time due to the constant flexing that they undergo. With wood the fibers begin to loosen up and with aluminum it’s the same thing as bending a piece of wire back and forth….it will get weak and finally break. The end result is inconsistant impact. Too me it’s just not worth the time spent to craft a set of woods to put up with that.

Anyway…to each his own. And I don’t cater to the crowd that believes carbons are less traditional than wood.

Brett

[George D. Stout]

#45203

Brett, I never question what is traditional unless it has wheels, cables and let-off; then it is surely not traditional.
I could give a rat’s patoot about what arrows folks shoot, and am keeping an eye on the carbons…I’m not convinced they are my arrow at all but will keep an open mind.

My issues are with folks who never tried something, or make conjectures about it. I can tell you that any fibrous material…even carbon…will also wear and stress with shooting; however, almost all shafting will be lost or destroyed before that ever happens. Wood, because of it’s natural makeup, is of course more fragile overall…but to me that doesn’t detract from the adventure of using them….in addition to my other arrows.

I just found three old 2117 Autumn Orange aluminum arrows that I used to shoot in the 1978 Pa. State Archery Association Tournaments…both field and target. I examined them carefully my friend, and they are just as fit as they were thirty-two years ago. I don’t know when the end will happen for them, but it will take more years than I have left to find out 8^).

If we are going to be realistic, then lets all understand that we don’t have the capability to wear out any synthetic or alloy arrow. Now wood? Yep….that’s possible, but it sure will take a lot of shooting.

And Brett….to me, it is worth the time; you see the good Lord only gave me so many days and I intend to use them all to experience the sport that I have grown to love. I’ll keep the shortcuts to a minimum and not worry about the time. Shoot well friend….I’m on your side. 😉

[Steertalker]

#45441

I hear ya George…like I said…to each his own. Personally I’d rather spend my time shooting rather than spending all my time making arrows. With all the other things I’ve got going time is something I don’t have a lot of.

Brett

[LimbLover]

#45595

There is room for all in my quiver. I really need to buy a set of woods and give them a shot or two though.

I think length would have to play a factor in my experiences too. I shoot a 31″ shaft and it didn’t take much to bend a 2018 or 2117 at that length with a 145g tip. A minor deflection and it was over – bent beyond all repair. Now I just picked up a few 2219s and I intend to shoot the hell out of them to see how they hold up. I suspect they will take more punishment than the 2117 or 2018.

I’m a better shot with carbons though. I just have more confidence in them. I’m not foolish enough to believe they are indestructible – but I can only go by what works for me.

Honestly, I don’t mind spending a lot of time on arrows. Fletching is therapeutic for me. I LOVE doing it. Making wood arrows would be a lot of fun but I would have a hard time shooting them for fear of breaking my works of art!

[Fletcher]

#45783

Carbon, aluminum and wood all make good arrows. Aluminum has been working for many years and its consistency is phenominal. Carbon shoots very well and recovers very fast. The good ones are quite durable. Wood has been serving man as an arrow since day one of archery, and doing it very well. I have woods that are over 15 years old and still shooting and killing things. No other material has the spirit of wood. It is all I want to shoot anymore.

Limblover, you don’t have to make all of your woods fancy; the plain ones shoot just as good. You can save the fancy ones for foam and the wall if you want. Let me know when you are ready for some good wood arrows and we can get you set up.

Rick

[David Petersen]

#46387

Limblover said: “Fletching is therapeutic for me. I LOVE doing it.” Me too. That’s one reason I’ve never owned more than a single fletching jib — it allows me to string out the therapy. If folks found out how easy and enjoyable it is to glue feathers to wood, and how cheap and esay it is to get set up with a dip tube, we’d all be doing it. You don’t need a workshop or special tools, and it gives us a “personal investment” in our gear. Even better. That said, I sure love the high art of arrow masters like Fletcher. dp

[Patrick]

#46438

LimbLover wrote: Making wood arrows would be a lot of fun but I would have a hard time shooting them for fear of breaking my works of art!

😆 Afflicted too, eh? 😉

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