carbon vs aluminum

[hunter1]

#2435

Whats better to shoot with trd bows carbon or aluminum arrows. Are they easer to tune and select proper shaft size. whats the pros and cons in using them with trad wood bows.

[Patrick]

#9415

I would say that the only advantage to shooting aluminum arrows is up-front cost. If you shoot alot, especially in situations where you are at risk of bending arrows, you may find that carbon arrows would be cheaper in the end. Carbon arrows arrow don’t bend and are about as indestructable as an arrow can get.

Maybe I’m wrong (I’m sure this will shock everyone, but I really have been wrong before…no kidding), but I don’t know of anyone who shoots aluminum for its “traditional” appeal.

To me, it’s either wood or carbon, UNLESS most of your arrow loses are due to loss. If that’s the case, the aluminum arrow and metal detector combo can’t be beat! 😆

[David Petersen]

#9812

What Patrick says! Except no way is carbon “traditional.” If you go by how long a technology has been around, alums have carbs beat to pieces. But otherwise I see aluminum shafts as obsolete. They are too fat, too hard to get good FoC and bend/break easily. In my opinion (humble or otherwise), it’s woodies for traditiona and carbons for all-around best performance and I can’t even understand why alums haven’t gone the way of solid fiberglass bows and arrows of my youth. But in the end — aside from making absolutely certain that if we shoot an arrow at an animal and it hits, it what’s needed to kill fast and humanely — other than that very critical issue, we’re in this for fun and personal challenge and satisfaction so what others do and say don’t mean beans if it doesn’t sing to us. Now, time to walk the dogs in a cold rain.:roll:

[Patrick]

#9874

David Petersen wrote: What Patrick says! Except no way is carbon “traditional.”

In no way was I intending to give the impression carbons are traditional. I was only questioning whether some people consider aluminum traditional. Although I’ve not heard anyone refer to them as such. I just figured that it was a given that, wood is traditional, and carbon is not.

[Voodoo]

#10411

Myself, I shoot fairly heavy bows and tend to like Carbons for their durability and consistancy, but I still have to foot them, I do have some woodies that shoot very well for me,also footed, but they are very special to my family and as such irreplaceble,I’d order more but Rusty went out of business and I have yet to find any that shoot as good, although I do have some lam. birch being built as we speak, so we’ll see…

[MontanaFord]

#10919

I’ve been shooting aluminum shafts since I started shooting, I started with 2018’s with 125 gr. tips, and have since gone to 2117’s with 145’s. I do plan to switch to carbons eventually, but I need to run out of aluminum shafts first, or my wife will lynch me. I think aluminums are easier to tune than carbons, but that’s just my opinion. I don’t have much experience with carbons yet, either, though.

Michael

[covert]

#35579

I always shot Easton aluminums but last year I bought a half-dozen GrizzlyStik Sitkas and while they shoot very well I don’t know if I’d agree with the nearly indestructible statement. I’m down to four because I missed and stuck two of them in the ground and about 4 inches broke off the end almost as clean as if they’d been cut. I think I’m going back to the aluminum because I can lose and/or break a lot more of them before I get up to the same cost. 😆

[Patrick]

#35618

😯 If that truly is how they broke, you need to call ABS and tell them.

[M]

#36318

I only use aluminum for beer. Carbon is the way to go.I wonder how carbon “bottles” would work with beer?

[LimbLover]

#36429

I would have argued for aluminums until I was blue in the face back during deer season but I was bending too many and switched to carbons during league. Heritage 250s. I won’t be going back.

I agree with Pat. One advantage for aluminums was the weight. It used to be hard to get the kind of gpi desirable for hunting out of carbons but now that shafts such as the 250 have almost as much weight as the aluminums, I do not see the point in shooting them anymore either.

On the other hand, I have an entire league full of archers that would disagree with me.

I just got tired of wondering if my shafts were straight or if they would break if I missed. Carbons are all or nothing and they are extremely durable. I have 20 Heritage shafts fletched and those will last me 3 times as long as aluminums.

[David Petersen]

#36678

Nick — you inadvertently hit on one of the bigggest “disadvantages” of carbons: If you don’t lose ’em, they last forever … and thereby rob you of the joy of making up new arrows! 8) Of course a guy can always scrape off the old feathers (much easier and cleaner than with woodies) and put on some pretty new colors to “freshen-up” his decades-old carbons. I WANT to shoot nothing but woodies. Yet I can’t ignore the endless practical advantages of carbons. Sort of a metaphor for much of contemporary life, I reckon. Mixed blessing.

[covert]

#36791

Patrick wrote: 😯 If that truly is how they broke, you need to call ABS and tell them.

Are they actually tougher than that normally? I don’t really know because it’s the first carbons I ever used so I just figured I was overestimating them. And I only shoot a 45 lb bow so I doubt they were going too fast.:wink:

I did miss and stick them into the ground (I believe the local Soil Service calls it “sandy loam”). I didn’t shoot them into a big rock or tree and then try to impugn their character on the Interweb if that’s what you mean. 😆 😆 To be perfectly honest I had never even considered calling them to ask if there may be a fault in the arrows, I just tossed them in the corner and chalked it up to experience.

[Patrick]

#36826

Definitely! There’s no way that should have done them in. Heck, I’ve shot mine into rocks, trees, steel plates. Pretty much everything but what I bought them for…deer!:evil::lol:

If you saw all the torture tests I’ve put my carbon arrows through, I can assure you, you would also think they are indestructible. I’m not exagerating one bit.

[covert]

#36839

I guess I’ll try to give them a call then and see what they say. Thanks.

[George D. Stout]

#37876

Carbons will split on the ends, and not after a multitude of hits on rocks, etc. I don’t hunt rocks or steel poles, and only occasionally hit rocks on an errant shot. You nearly have to foot all carbons….on both ends. That’s why those guys are always looking for a couple extra aluminum shafts; to protect their indestructible carbons. 8)

If you pay attention at shoots, and if you peruse the threads in various forum, you will see that it is true. On the 3D ranges there are enough carbon shards to fill a fifty-five gallon barrel….in most cases. Indestructible? No.

Someone also mentioned consistency. Aluminum arrows have been in use since the 1930’s, but the alloys have gotten much stronger over the years. I don’t know what you guys shoot into, but I can have aluminums last as long as any other material, especially if you use some Bunny Busters on the killin’ end of them.

I wouldn’t toll the death knell quite yet on the “beer cans.” They are more consistent from size to size; come in usable hunting weights without loading them down; and you don’t have to buy big diameters as Dave mentioned above. A 2020 is durable, heavy, and has enough spine to accomodate pretty heavy draw weights.

It’s always interesting that some folks foolishly want to throw out anything except what they consider the best. I’ve been at this for a while….starting my sixth decade this year and know pretty much what works. I love my wood arrows, but I have shot aluminum since the 1960’s. I don’t see a big advantage on durability….maybe a tad more, but there is no gain on consistency….not close.

[Gorbin]

#37908

When I first shot as a kid in the early eighties I was handed a recurve and a fist full of aluminums by my uncle. I still have those arrows, though after all these years the printing has come off and I have no idea what they are. However, I distinctly remember hunting the elusive Chi-town ally rat with them, bouncing quite a few into the neighbors dock. Pulled them out the other day and ya know what? Still straight as an…..

After 25+ years they’re trad enough for me!
Gorbin.

[Cottonwood]

#38765

I shot carbs in my other bow which is off topic here, but I will say I have broken more CX carbs than aluminum with that bow. As far as traditionals go, I’m getting ready to puchase my first set or sets for two differant 45# traditional bows. One is a self longbow that I just finished, and the other is a Bear Kodiak that just has been shooting the Easton 2016’s with feathers just great.

In the stack of arrows that are available at the shop, he has woods 50-55’s and Beaman 340 carbs. I can order the Eastman carbs as well. So alot of thought has been going into my purchase thinking. My traditional self longbow is just screaming for woods.

I do have 1 dozen Arrow Dynamic’s Nitro Stingers that are still uncut @ 32″ that have the same taper design as Grizzly Sticks and have thought about making these up with feathers and starting at 32″ and then going down from there to see where the perfect flight is.

I like heavy arrows, what can I say.

[Patrick]

#38871

Just as there are varying degrees of quality and durability in aluminium arrows (gamegetters vs XX75’s vs XX78’s), there are varying degrees of quality in carbon arrows. While I haven’t had experience with all carbon arrows, I do have very strong opinions of those I have used. Just a few examples of that:

Carbon Express Maxima’s did split on the ends often when they hit something hard.

I have yet to ruin an Easton Axis or ABS GrizzlyStik and they’ve been through the ringer. I don’t shoot arrows to try and break them or to see how much punishment I can put them through (although I’ve jokingly stated so elsewehere). What I do though is, when I practice, I try to “thread needles” through branches, between trees, etc. That leads to some pretty spectacular “misses”. When I walk up to those arrows sometimes, I fully expect them to be broke, in some way, but each time they completely shock me, and I mean that…they really shock me.

With all of that said, I don’t have any allegiance to carbon. In fact, I’m switching to wood arrows as soon as my stash of carbons dry up. Because I want to go more traditional.

[MontanaFord]

#38946

I shoot Gamegetters, and, to be honest, unless I actually hit a rock really solid, or a steel target, they seem to stay fairly straight. They may be the “cheapies” that Easton offers, but they work pretty dang good for me. Also, I want to bring up the straightness aspect. And yes, I looked this up on 3 Rivers and Cabelas. All of the carbons I looked at varied in straightness of +/- .003 to .005″, while all of the aluminum shafts I looked at were guaranteed to be +/- .001 to .002″ in straightness. My question is this…Why, if carbons are basically a synthetic material, and superior to aluminums, can’t arrow manufacturers make them perfectly straight? Or at least as straight as they can make the aluminum shafts? Just wondering. Something to think about. 😀

Michael.

[Patrick]

#39005

Of course gamegetters work pretty dang good. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t have been manufactured for so long. Noone’s claiming otherwise. They simply are not as durable as XX75’s, which are not as durable as XX78’s…that’s all.

As far as I know, aluminum arrows are straighter simply because the manufacturing process for them is more refined when compared to that of carbon arrows. It’s merely academic though since we can’t shoot good enough to perceive the difference.

[Tom 6107]

#39385

Sorry Gorbin, I just can’t help myself. That’s a pretty freaky profile pic! 😆

[Gorbin]

#39846

Tom 6107 wrote: Sorry Gorbin, I just can’t help myself. That’s a pretty freaky profile pic! 😆

LOL, that’s my crazy wombat! Found him on one of my many web crawls and he’s just hung out for the ride- I thought he’d make a memorable avatar. Freaky-deaky!

[Hiram]

#40626

Depends on how important definitions are to ya! For me, I started my own tradition of shooting carbons. I like the CE Heritage arrows. 10 grains to start with/add internal footing or weight, and I have good heavy hunting arrow. I am traditionally correct according to my standards! LOL:)

[MontanaFord]

#42912

Actually, Patrick, Gamegetters are xx75 shafting. As for the difference between 75’s and 78’s…I don’t know the difference. I was just pointing out the fact that manufacturing specs on aluminum shafts are more stringent than those for carbon shafts. But you’re right…we don’t shoot well enough (most of us) to see the difference. Howard Hill, now…that might be a different story, because from what I understand, his form was perfect enough that he could tell the difference in each group of arrows that he shot, and where they would hit. Now THAT is accurate shooting. Wouldn’t it be nice to be so solid and sure of your shooting.

Michael.

[Patrick]

#43502

I’m a LONG ways from shooting like Howard Hill, so I’ll never know. 😆

I’ll take your word for it regarding Gamegetters. My frame of reference is from the 1990’s and they were different then.

[MontanaFord]

#43568

Believe me, I’m a long ways from shooting like Howard Hill, too. It would have been cool to be able to see somebody like him shoot. Him and Fred Bear both.

Yeah, I knew the old GG’s were lower quality shafts, but now they’re the same shafting as the Legacy’s and other 75’s.

Oh, and if you want your stash of carbons to dry up faster, you can always send what you have left over to me…lol.

Michael.

[Cottonwood]

#43598

MontanaFord, we are in the same town here as I just noticed from where you are from. I live in the Evergreen area, maybe see you at Flaming Arrow sometime.

[George D. Stout]

#43603

Gamegetters are 7075-T9 that is the same as the tougher Legacy shafts. Patrick is recalling the old green ones which were softer. The newer models are significantly tougher and make great stump arrows. Also consider the Easton Blues; they are 7075-T9 alloy as well and can be had for $30.00 a dozen for shafts.

If you love to shoot stumps and can’t stay away from those petrified ones 8^)….get some Barta Bunny Busters from 3Rivers Archery. They are the same design as the old HTM blunts that I used in the 1970’s. They will add a lot of miles to your current arrows.

[MontanaFord]

#43613

Cottonwood,

I generally shoot down at Spirit Quest, but I buy my field tips from Dennis. I haven’t shot down at Flaming Arrow except when we were looking for a bow for my wife. The one bow that they had was one of those cheaper take-downs with the white limbs…I don’t remember who the manufacturer was, but that bow, or at least one of the limbs, should never have left the factory, as it was twisted bad enough that you couldn’t keep the string in the groove. We ended up passing on that bow, and found an old Shakespeare up at the Fawn Creek shoot the following weekend for half the price of the takedown. Drop me a pm, we can visit more from there.

Michael.

[Patrick]

#43992

George D. Stout wrote: . Also consider the Easton Blues; they are 7075-T9 alloy as well and can be had for $30.00 a dozen for shafts.

😯 That is insanely cheap! You could buy 4 dozen of them for the same price as a single dozen Easton Axis’!

[Cottonwood]

#44141

Michael

That is why I want a custom longbow and not an off the shelf longbow from any shop. Now that the weather is much better, Lone Pine State Park is looking real good to go shoot at. We will talk later, but I don’t shoot at Spirit Quest any longer.

I will be placing an order with Bama Bows for a Hunter Model in the next week or so.

[Author]

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