Building EFOC/UEFOC hunting arrows

[jpcarlson]

#4306

I am currently coming back to the light from the dark side and have picked up my grandpa’s 1960 era bear TD Recurve. I had a new string built for it and put some beaver balls on it. The bow is rated as 48# at 28″. I draw about 30-31″ and estimate i am drawing about 54#. So far, the bow shoots heavy aluminum shafts with 100gr points very well. I just finished reading/listening to Ashby’s seminar from the trad gathering in Kalamazoo MI this winter and I have the “heavy arrow/ EFOC/ single bevel broadhead” bug bad:) I really want to build a good arrow setup for the fall hunt, but I’m not sure which way to go. I was looking at Easton Full Metal Jacket carbon/aluminum arrows as they are about 17gr/1″ just in the shafts. They have brass inserts with an additional weight totalling 75gr. So, so far I can get a full lengt arrow to start with (before trimming and tuning to the bow) at 32″ in these is 513gr. The brass insert is 75gr. Then a 75-100gr steel broadhead adaptor pluss a 100gr single bevel Grizzly broadhead. That would leave me with an total arrow weight between 763gr-788gr. Is this over kill? Or is this on the right path? Any thoughts from those with more “in the field” experience? I will have around 275gr just in the nose of these tank busters. Is that enough FOC? I want to start out with a really good arrow set up from the get go!

[Troy Breeding]

#29353

Go to the Friends of FOC Forum and read the thread “Tied the threads together”

I think this will tell you alot about what you are looking for.

I did a lot of testing and reported it in several different threads. Then put them all together under one thread.

Troy

[Fletcher]

#29362

EFOC requires a light shaft and heavy point/insert. Starting with a 17 gpi shaft is going to defeat your purpose. 750+ grains total arrow weight is a lot for 54 lbs, even with your long draw. It’s not necessarily overkill, but more than you will need. Dr. Ashby’s studies have bone breaking at 650 gr, which would give you a nicer trajectory for shooting. Congrats on your return and for looking to improve your arrow setup.

[Robin Conrads]

#29964

Housekeeping! Moving this thread to Friends of FOC. Carry on! 😀

[jpcarlson]

#30415

I will do some more reading and get back to you. Thanks for the support guys! I find it hard to find any experienced traditional shooters around where I live and I work well with Mentors. Seems that all of my hunting buddies either just use compounds and don’t get it, or they use traditional equipment once in a while and are not serious enough about it to really dig in and try to learn new/old info and better their set up. Seems it would be easier to learn how to set up and tune a better arrow for their traditional equipment and have the fun of it shooting better, thus perpetuating the fun:)

[jpcarlson]

#33655

Troy Breeding wrote: Go to the Friends of FOC Forum and read the thread “Tied the threads together”

I think this will tell you alot about what you are looking for.

I did a lot of testing and reported it in several different threads. Then put them all together under one thread.

Troy

Troy

Wow, you have spent a lot of time testing this out! Good work! I still am wondering what type of shaft to start with? what brand/model have you had good results with that I can find fairly easily? I’m looking for a light and strong/stiff shaft that has brass inserts available right? Is there one more affordable than another? I can see how this can get expensive if I mess some up while tuning!

One thing I didn’t understand but might have missed from the threads. Once I tune a couple shafts and figure out what the length should be for the weight i’m using with my bow, can I cut and fletch my remaining shafts accordingly? Or do you tune every shaft to the bow because the spine varies?

jans

[Troy Breeding]

#33769

Jans,

I mainly used the Victory VMaxx HV 300 shafts in my testing. You can get them in alot of proshops as well as on line or even from Victory.

I’ve also used the Beman Bowhunter. Several of the others have used the Gold Tip Ultra lite Entrada shaft.

As for basic shooting you can cut and fletch the remainder of your shafts after finding what shoots best.

For my hunting arrows I test each and every shaft. It’s just something that gives me peace of mind.

Troy

[David Petersen]

#33836

A decent “economy” shaft is the Carbon Express, which takes all standard internals. I’ve killed a couple of elk with them and a deer and never had one fail. I’m shooting around 27% FOC with these.

[jpcarlson]

#35261

David Petersen wrote: A decent “economy” shaft is the Carbon Express, which takes all standard internals. I’ve killed a couple of elk with them and a deer and never had one fail. I’m shooting around 27% FOC with these.

Thanks Dave, I am going to look at those tomorrow. What kind of broadhead are you using? I have been looking at the grizzlies and the tuffheads. I like the price of the grizzlies, but really like the weight and the build of the tuffheads! they seem to have made a broadhead with all of the “Ashby” attributes he found to make a really leathal and efficiant broadhead. They also make heavy field tips to practice with and tune arrows!:)

Appreciate the help!

jans

[jpcarlson]

#35263

Troy Breeding wrote: Jans,

I mainly used the Victory VMaxx HV 300 shafts in my testing. You can get them in alot of proshops as well as on line or even from Victory.

I’ve also used the Beman Bowhunter. Several of the others have used the Gold Tip Ultra lite Entrada shaft.

As for basic shooting you can cut and fletch the remainder of your shafts after finding what shoots best.

For my hunting arrows I test each and every shaft. It’s just something that gives me peace of mind.

Troy

Thanks Troy, Like I told Dave, I am going to look at those tomorrow too:). What kind of broadhead are you using? I have been looking at the grizzlies and the tuffheads. I like the price of the grizzlies, but really like the weight and the build of the tuffheads! they seem to have made a broadhead with all of the “Ashby” attributes he found to make a really leathal and efficiant broadhead. They also make heavy field tips to practice with and tune arrows! I looked at the new Eclipse broad heads that screw in, but I think I want something heavier than 200 grns. Any ideas?

Season is just around the corner and I have to get these dialed in. Antelope opens the middle of August and I just can’t wait to get out there, much less use one of these bad boys.

Appreciate the help!

jans

[jpcarlson]

#35267

David Petersen wrote: A decent “economy” shaft is the Carbon Express, which takes all standard internals. I’ve killed a couple of elk with them and a deer and never had one fail. I’m shooting around 27% FOC with these.

Are you getting those in a 350 spine? or what should I be looking for?

jans

[jpcarlson]

#35270

Troy Breeding wrote: Jans,

I mainly used the Victory VMaxx HV 300 shafts in my testing. You can get them in alot of proshops as well as on line or even from Victory.

I’ve also used the Beman Bowhunter. Several of the others have used the Gold Tip Ultra lite Entrada shaft.

As for basic shooting you can cut and fletch the remainder of your shafts after finding what shoots best.

For my hunting arrows I test each and every shaft. It’s just something that gives me peace of mind.

Troy

And another question if I may:) with these EFOC/UEFOC setups, I have noticed your testing is out to 20/25 yrds. Is that the realistic range with such a setup due to the weight and drop past that? How do they shoot at 30-40 yrds? I’m not saying I take shots that far with a recurve, but I do try and practice to 30. Are they still accurate or is it realistic to make that shot with a UEFOC shaft?

I’m kinda like a kid in a candy store with all of this:)

Jans

[Troy Breeding]

#35642

jpcarlson wrote: [quote=Troy Breeding]Jans,

I mainly used the Victory VMaxx HV 300 shafts in my testing. You can get them in alot of proshops as well as on line or even from Victory.

I’ve also used the Beman Bowhunter. Several of the others have used the Gold Tip Ultra lite Entrada shaft.

As for basic shooting you can cut and fletch the remainder of your shafts after finding what shoots best.

For my hunting arrows I test each and every shaft. It’s just something that gives me peace of mind.

Troy

And another question if I may:) with these EFOC/UEFOC setups, I have noticed your testing is out to 20/25 yrds. Is that the realistic range with such a setup due to the weight and drop past that? How do they shoot at 30-40 yrds? I’m not saying I take shots that far with a recurve, but I do try and practice to 30. Are they still accurate or is it realistic to make that shot with a UEFOC shaft?

I’m kinda like a kid in a candy store with all of this:)

Jans

Jans,

The range you shoot at depends on your ability.

One thing you will find when you get into UEFOC arrows is the fact that at 20-25 yds your arrow will fly flatter.

I know, I know, there are people that will tell you it’s not possible. They clam phisics makes it impossible.

My reply, if you ain’t tried it then don’t believe everything you read. Your eyes will tell you different.

As for me shooting past 25yds. Look back at the thread and see the pictures of my shots. Wouldn’t say I could do it again today, mainly because I havn’t been able to get the shooting time I did lastyear.

I feel most people say shooting longer distance is wrong is due mainly because they don’t shoot enough or at distance longer than 20yds. If you keep at it the skill will come.

Troy

[David Petersen]

#35827

Jans — I use the CE250s with 450 grains up front: 225 Tuffhead with 100 grain adapter and 125 grain insert. The shafts weigh about 350 and I total out just below 800 total. But this is an elk setup that I never shoot beyond 20 yards … it’s my shooting skill that limites me more than any trajectory problems.

For deer, antelope, turkey etc. I drop back 100 grains or more in head weight but not sure why.

I know there are many far superior carbon shafts out there but I know nothing about them. Being a very reluctant carbon shooter, I somehow got started with CEs and since they work I’ve stuck with them. Many folks here know more about the various carbon options than I do. While you don’t need a heavy arrow set-up for pronghorn, so long as it shoots to your satisfaction “there’s no such thing as over-kill” in hunting arrows, while opportunities for being under-gunned lurk behind every magazine advertisement (except TBM of course). 😀

[jpcarlson]

#35992

David Petersen wrote: Jans — I use the CE250s with 450 grains up front: 225 Tuffhead with 100 grain adapter and 125 grain insert. The shafts weigh about 350 and I total out just below 800 total. But this is an elk setup that I never shoot beyond 20 yards … it’s my shooting skill that limites me more than any trajectory problems.

For deer, antelope, turkey etc. I drop back 100 grains or more in head weight but not sure why.

I know there are many far superior carbon shafts out there but I know nothing about them. Being a very reluctant carbon shooter, I somehow got started with CEs and since they work I’ve stuck with them. Many folks here know more about the various carbon options than I do. While you don’t need a heavy arrow set-up for pronghorn, so long as it shoots to your satisfaction “there’s no such thing as over-kill” in hunting arrows, while opportunities for being under-gunned lurk behind every magazine advertisement (except TBM of course). 😀

Ha! You guys are all great! I really appreciate all of the advice and support! It’s a bunch of trad mentors on line:) I think I am going to take the same approach i use when shooting long range rifles. Use a heavy bullet, shoot often, and use the same gun and bullet set up on everything:) That being said I already know those willy goats will taunt me out at the maximum range I am comfortable with again this year:) Seems they know just how close to let me belly crawl through the cactus and sage. Maybe they enjoy the sight of self torment?:)

I’m headed to the archery shop to see what kind of shafts I can find to fill the bill. I will keep you guys posted on what I come up with.

Many thanks,

Jans

[jpcarlson]

#37264

jpcarlson wrote: [quote=David Petersen]Jans — I use the CE250s with 450 grains up front: 225 Tuffhead with 100 grain adapter and 125 grain insert. The shafts weigh about 350 and I total out just below 800 total. But this is an elk setup that I never shoot beyond 20 yards … it’s my shooting skill that limites me more than any trajectory problems.

For deer, antelope, turkey etc. I drop back 100 grains or more in head weight but not sure why.

I know there are many far superior carbon shafts out there but I know nothing about them. Being a very reluctant carbon shooter, I somehow got started with CEs and since they work I’ve stuck with them. Many folks here know more about the various carbon options than I do. While you don’t need a heavy arrow set-up for pronghorn, so long as it shoots to your satisfaction “there’s no such thing as over-kill” in hunting arrows, while opportunities for being under-gunned lurk behind every magazine advertisement (except TBM of course). 😀

David,

I opted for the Easton Axis Nano shaft in 340. Very strong, and pretty light. I am getting them with a 75 gr brass insert. I think I will order some 100-125 gr steel adaptors, then a 300gr field tip and broadhead to match. Probably going with the Tuffhead 300 as it seems like the only good heavy one out there. The guys at the bow shop all think I am crazy:) but they are curious enough to help me out and let me use the range and cut off saw to tune my arrows just to see what sort of tomfoolery i am dealing with. I can’t wait to get them tuned up and driving tacks. Then I can’t wait to show them the good flight characteristics and the superiour penetration in the foam target. when I talk about the setup with the small A&A fletching and the turbulator, you would think I had had come from another planet the way they react. It will be poetic justice in the face of all the gadgets and mechanical doohickies they sell and promote. I was shooting my old Bear recurve on their range yesterday after ordering my shafts and having fun. There was a young man shooting a new/used compound he had just bought next to me. He just stopped and stared as I repeatedly stacked arrows in a decent group at 15yds. He had this look of “you mean you can do that with such a simple set up and you don’t need a sight and release and all of this stuff I bought on this mechanical monster?” It was pretty fun to see.

How is the elk season down your way looking? I know half of colorado is on fire so I hope it doesn’t mess up your hunting grounds!

jans

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