Bowhunting Area 51

[kingwouldbe]

#6727

Hello fellow Traditional Bowhunters, this is a hunt I did in ” Area 51 ” ( top secret, lol, first time I have ever been there ) I shot this sow at around 15-18 yards down hill as she was coming up hill, I could hear her coming through the brush so, I was ready as she came out, the arrow glides silently to the hair I was looking at, then buries deep in her chest.

Just shot a sow: http://youtu.be/nAqAKqXzSWY

After the recovery, I wanted to do some testing and shoot through the thick part of the scapula, I was blown away with what happened, it went through the scapula burring deep into the spine, I could not get it to even budge.

Test shots 1 & 2, and autopsy: http://youtu.be/vXM_VPxbBAg

[Raymond Coffman]

#54603

Kingwouldbe —

Great video — always enjoy your experiments and information on efoc, nothing like direct from the field.

Noticed you are using a new bow – same poundage ? 60#?

Scout.

[Troy Breeding]

#54616

Outstanding work brother!!! outstanding!!!

Troy

[kingwouldbe]

#54626

Hi Scott, yes these limbs are 60lb, I also have a 67lb set of limbs that I will be hunting with also.

Hi Troy, you already know it’s a labor of love…..lol 😯

I will tell you, it’s hard work being THE HUNTER, CAMERA MAN, ACTOR, NARRATOR, PRODUCER, & WRITER, all while trying to smoke a cigar and film ….lol…lol 😀

It is amazing how I miss spoke again, on this video, I say; on the second shot, that I’m not high enough for the heart, what I meant to say; was I’m to high to hit the heart

[Vintage Archer]

#54645

King, Congratulation on the hog kill. Great video, the dissection was real educational, and the trailing portion was real interesting .It gives a person a feel for the country or environment you are hunting. That was a great demonstration of arrow penetration .Nothing like pictures to emphasize the subject. THERE IS JUST ONE THING I DID NOT GET WHAT BROADHEAD YOU WERE USING.NEXT TIME MAY BE YOU COULD EMPHASIES THAT!:lol::lol:

[David Petersen]

#54740

King — I am livid with envy!!! 😛 Not only of your hunting prowess but of your weather. 😀

Every bowhunter should watch these videos, particularly the second one. 😀

[kingwouldbe]

#54820

David Petersen wrote: King — I am livid with envy!!! 😛 Not only of your hunting prowess but of your weather. 😀

Every bowhunter should watch these videos, particularly the second one. 😀

Well Dave, it was a blue-bird day,:D the wind was gusting, uncomfortable for me, but made for excellent stocking.

Another amazing thing I have not mentioned, is the arrow was broke about 10″ inside the chest cavity, about 2″ in-front of the diaphragm, I thought it broke at the entrance wound, I was wrong, later upon examination, it had blood about 5″ up the broke part of the shaft, so I would say the total penetration on the first shot was closer to 20-25″

[wahoo]

#54847

congrats on the hog. question . can I do this with woodies ?? I am shooting a thunderhorn , Selway ,Owl all the same poundage of 52 to 55 at 26″ . I have been shooting laminated birch 5/16 shafts spined at 45 -50 ( because I liked that 5/16 diameter ) with a 125 head total weight 650 grns finished. I know that I could gain some weight by ordering 50 – 55 or 55 -60 shafts – 11/32 how much I don’t know. Just like making and shooting wood any suggestions? I hunt mulies and elk . Thanks back to work

[kingwouldbe]

#54934

wahoo wrote: congrats on the hog. question . can I do this with woodies ?? I am shooting a thunderhorn , Selway ,Owl all the same poundage of 52 to 55 at 26″ . I have been shooting laminated birch 5/16 shafts spined at 45 -50 ( because I liked that 5/16 diameter ) with a 125 head total weight 650 grns finished. I know that I could gain some weight by ordering 50 – 55 or 55 -60 shafts – 11/32 how much I don’t know. Just like making and shooting wood any suggestions? I hunt mulies and elk . Thanks back to work

Wahoo, thanks man, as far as wood arrows go’s I have to defer to Troy or Dave, as it’s been so-long sense I have messed with wood arrow, I would probably steer you wrong.

I know you can increase your foc, but you will hit the wall sooner with wood arrows.

If you look hard you can see her sleeping……..

[Ed Ashby]

#55049

Great autopsy video, King. I particularly like the clearly shown “L-shaped” cut through the lungs on the second test shot and the ‘starburst’ cut showing on the liver, from the kill-shot. Superb video work.

I wish I had been able to do videos during the Study but didn’t for several reasons; I’m not tech-savvy enough to operate one, couldn’t afford a good video camera and, as you’re learning, it takes a lot of effort to carry along AND use all the things one would like to when working in the field. With all the assortment of arrows and measuring equipment I was always carrying it was just more than I could manage. At any rate, I’m immensely grateful that you are documenting on video so many of the things I’ve tried to capture in still photos. Unless one has done a lot of field testing it is hard to grasp the extra effort required to document the shot outcomes. You have my most sincere thanks for the great effort you’re putting in.

Ed

[Dan Klee]

#55100

Great video, video king. I enjoyed the harvest but I also thought the Ghurka you smoked an excellent choice. For me I would have smoked the La Gloria Cubana Serie R which I happen to have a fresh box but in any event, a good cigar fits the billing of any harvest. Keep up the good work!

Dan

[David Petersen]

#55123

King — You think pig hunting is good in Area 51, someday you should check out Area S4 — outta this world! :shock::P

[kingwouldbe]

#55272

David Petersen wrote: King — You think pig hunting is good in Area 51, someday you should check out Area S4 — outta this world! :shock::P

Dave….Oh I know…. hope to go there next weekend lol 😯 Area S4 is part of the famous ‘Area 51’

We named the spot “area 51” as it’s a strange place… so, the only stranger place than area 51 is, area S4, we haven’t found that yet…lol

I pretty much give all my hunting spots name:

Here’s a few:

Kilimanjaro

Killer Cortez

2nd spot

CVD

Valhalla

Javous wall

Bloody heart

Little Sequoya etc…… there all for fun

[kingwouldbe]

#55288

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: Great autopsy video, King. I particularly like the clearly shown “L-shaped” cut through the lungs on the second test shot and the ‘starburst’ cut showing on the liver, from the kill-shot. Superb video work.

I wish I had been able to do videos during the Study but didn’t for several reasons; I’m not tech-savvy enough to operate one, couldn’t afford a good video camera and, as you’re learning, it takes a lot of effort to carry along AND use all the things one would like to when working in the field. With all the assortment of arrows and measuring equipment I was always carrying it was just more than I could manage. At any rate, I’m immensely grateful that you are documenting on video so many of the things I’ve tried to capture in still photos. Unless one has done a lot of field testing it is hard to grasp the extra effort required to document the shot outcomes. You have my most sincere thanks for the great effort you’re putting in.

Ed

Thanks Doc. I know I been telling you that I would do it….. it’s just taken longer than I thought.

I have see the “L” cut, several times, never the star-burst, the camera just does not catch what the eye can, still pic’s are vary hard to discern what you are really looking at.

The video camera does a better job, just not as good as the eye.

I always think of other things I want to do after it’s over and I’m home, then I forget the next time I hunt lol

I remembered some of it this time …..lol

[Raymond Coffman]

#55669

If Kingwouldbe is going after the Alien Pigs at S4[Papoose lake]he will need a “Bigger Bow” and the “Airhammer”! haha

Scout

[David Petersen]

#55805

King — “Killer Cortez”? You must be a fan of your neighbor Neil Young. 😀

[kingwouldbe]

#55848

David Petersen wrote: King — “Killer Cortez”? You must be a fan of your neighbor Neil Young. 😀

BINGO…….. Dave, you are asactly right.

Check this out, Grace Potter & Joe Satriani cover Cortez the Killer, outstanding job.

[kingwouldbe]

#55854

This was a private message, but I thought I would share it.

“David. Ed Ashby wrote you the ultimate compliment on trad bow. He was right in every thing he said .I probably would have metered it out a little at a time so your head would not sweel up:)) laughing.

Good job!

Joe Furlong “

My reply

Hi Joe,

You know, Ed has been telling everyone about these things for a long time and he takes a lot of mocking about single bevel, turbulators, star-burst, efoc, mechanical advantage, A & A feathers etc….

He’s a better man than me, his patience and long suffering of the skeptics is saint like, he’s probably just happy he’s not as crazy as everyone thinks lol 😀

The worst part is, the skeptics wont even try and reproduce what he is telling us, they just mock, and pretend it’s fake.

If people would stop and think for a second, his goal is to help every bowhunter tweak his bowhunting tackle to be more efficient and deadlier, and that’s what it’s about.

I’m just a test monkey……….lol

David

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#55894

Kingwouldbe wrote:

The worst part is, the skeptics wont even try and reproduce what he is telling us…

Which never ceases to amaze me, but it does seem to the norm. Oh well, opinions are apparently more important than experience…at least when it comes to internet chat boards. I can’t say I know many people who have actually experimented with these set-ups and not been seriously impressed with the results.

Kingwouldbe wrote:

If people would stop and think for a second, his goal is to help every bowhunter tweak his bowhunting tackle to be more efficient and deadlier, and that’s what it’s about.

Why else would he devote so much time to experimenting and amassing the amount of data that he has? He’s always made it clear that he doesn’t benefit commercially from this. I don’t understand why anyone would think there is any other sort of “agenda” here.

[Vintage Archer]

#55945

Smithhammer wrote: [quote=Kingwouldbe]

The worst part is, the skeptics wont even try and reproduce what he is telling us…

Which never ceases to amaze me, but it does seem to the norm. Oh well, opinions are apparently more important than experience…at least when it comes to internet chat boards. I can’t say I know many people who have actually experimented with these set-ups and not been seriously impressed with the results.

Kingwouldbe wrote:

If people would stop and think for a second, his goal is to help every bowhunter tweak his bowhunting tackle to be more efficient and deadlier, and that’s what it’s about.

Why else would he devote so much time to experimenting and amassing the amount of data that he has? He’s always made it clear that he doesn’t benefit commercially from this. I don’t understand why anyone would think there is any other sort of “agenda” here.

Smithhammer wrote: Why else would he devote so much time to experimenting and amassing the amount of data that he has? He’s always made it clear that he doesn’t benefit commercially from this. I don’t understand why anyone would think there is any other sort of “agenda” here.

We live in a world of changing values. Since people judge others by their own values the people that do not understand, believe in, or question Dr. Ashby’s motives are people who would not do anything if they were not to receive renumeration at the end. It is hard to understand as evidently the “doubters” never were motivated to investigate, experiment, or challenge a subject because of their own inquisitive nature. This is sad !!:( Luckily for most of us there are people like Dr. Ed Ashby and others motivated and willing to “ think outside of the box” and delve in to subjects just because …………….:D

[Ed Ashby]

#56177

Ya’ll stop it …

… you’re making me blush!

p.s.: This is a very useful photo for the ‘morning after’ – just to prove that you really did see a pink elephant … this is what an albino elephant looks like.

Ed

[kingwouldbe]

#56197

Some strong evidence, that demands a verdict.

The front shoulder has been removed, the ribs have been cut from the top and pealed down, showing the intact vital organs, the heart is still in it’s little sheathing, called The Pericardium, forward and down from the lungs, as you can see, there is NOT a slit in the lung, I hunted with Zewicky’s for decades and have never seen this before.

The “L” cut is only evidenced from a single bevel, so, to me, I get the cutting of a 3 blade, with the penetration of a sleek 2 blade.

You have to ask your self, how was this cut made from a 1 1/16″ wide 2 blade? how can a 2 blade have this kind of cut?

Keeping an open mind. keeps us on the path of discovery.

[Ed Ashby]

#56219

Super dissection photo!

Ed

[CareyE]

#56866

Really looking forward to my elk hunt to see what the 300gr Tuffhead does to an elk.

[David Petersen]

#57023

Carey — I can vouch that the 300 will do precisely what the 225 does, only even better. 😀 What I’m hoping to find out this Sept. is what the 300 will do to an elk when it’s walking point for a wood shaft alone, rather than reinforced in a carbon shaft with 225 grains of brass internals. 😯

[Ireland]

#57025

Kingwouldbe wrote: Some strong evidence, that demands a verdict.

The front shoulder has been removed, the ribs have been cut from the top and pealed down, showing the intact vital organs, the heart is still in it’s little sheathing, called The Pericardium, forward and down from the lungs, as you can see, there is NOT a slit in the lung, I hunted with Zewicky’s for decades and have never seen this before.

The “L” cut is only evidenced from a single bevel, so, to me, I get the cutting of a 3 blade, with the penetration of a sleek 2 blade.

You have to ask your self, how was this cut made from a 1 1/16″ wide 2 blade? how can a 2 blade have this kind of cut?

Keeping an open mind. keeps us on the path of discovery.

King,

Thank you so much for the huge amount of time it took to do the testing, record the data, all the slicing on the hog, the great pictures of your results and the posting on Tradbow. We all can benefit from your research. A special thanks to Dr. Ashby for steering us all in the right direction and to Joe for making the best broadhead in America…THE TUFFHEAD!!!

Ireland

[Fallguy]

#57304

King what are you using on the front of your arrows to get the weight? I shoot 60#’s also with a 28″ draw. I normally cut my shafts to 30″. I have been shooting 190 Grizzlies but plan to switch to Tuffheads next fall.

[kingwouldbe]

#57968

Fallguy wrote: King what are you using on the front of your arrows to get the weight? I shoot 60#’s also with a 28″ draw. I normally cut my shafts to 30″. I have been shooting 190 Grizzlies but plan to switch to Tuffheads next fall.

Fallguy wrote: King what are you using on the front of your arrows to get the weight? I shoot 60#’s also with a 28″ draw. I normally cut my shafts to 30″. I have been shooting 190 Grizzlies but plan to switch to Tuffheads next fall.

Fallguy, my specs for this arrow are as follows, GT 300, 29″, 2″ of 2117 footing, 100gr steel adapter and Tuffhead 300, 4×2″ A&A feathers, total arrow weight 710 grains & 31.55% foc

You have to remember to tune the arrow to you & your bow, carbons can stiffen up quickly so cut judiciously.

I am always tweaking stuff, but I’m pretty happy with this set up.

[Fallguy]

#58342

Thanks for the info King. This gives me a starting point to work from there doesn’t seem to be many of us left shooting 60 to 65#’s anyone. What weight insert are you using?

[kingwouldbe]

#58367

Oh, sorry forgot that, just the regular 40 grains, I have not tried the brass ones.

If I want more weight up front, I ad a internal footing or a machine screw.

[CareyE]

#59236

David Petersen wrote: Carey — I can vouch that the 300 will do precisely what the 225 does, only even better. 😀 What I’m hoping to find out this Sept. is what the 300 will do to an elk when it’s walking point for a wood shaft alone, rather than reinforced in a carbon shaft with 225 grains of brass internals. 😯

Are you using hickory again David?

[David Petersen]

#59502

Cary — No mo hickory. In fact just the opposite. My hickory days marked the first opening of my eyes to what makes arrow penetration work. I’d read Dr. Ashby’s Natal Studies from which I’d learned about heavy arrows and two-blade heads, and in fact shot plumb through two elk, a bull and a cow, two years in a row, using the same arrow: 748 grains total with wimpy little 125 points. The third year I destroyed that point (Wolverine) when it hit a bull square on in the shoulderbent over in the middle, broke, and bounced out. Only later did I learn about the rest of the formula: EFOC and strong single-bevels. So my new rule for a few years now, which has killed every elk and other animal I’ve used it on, is 650 grains minimum arrow weight and I try to hold it to no more than 700 grains since I shoot only 53# … lightest possible shaft to handle the heaviest possible weight up front. So this new woody experiment uses Sitka spruce, light and strong, which will still give me over 650 grains total and high FOC if not EFOC. If I were shooting more bow weight, like King and a few others here, I’d shoot more arrow weight. Cheers, dave

[CareyE]

#30746

David, will you be using the 300gr. Tuffhead? If so,what spine shaft are you shooting using your 53# bow? I would like to try woods too and was trying to ballpark the shaft spine for that weight head which I’m using. I’ll be shooting 57#@26″ out of my Great Northern Bushbow.

[Author]

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