Blood Trails

[smiley1]

#6359

Yesterday afternoon I was fortunate to fill my buck tag. The 700 grain Tuffhead tipped arrow passed through both lungs and buried in the dirt. As the buck slowly traveled about 25 yards, I was expecting him to go down knowing the shot was well placed. He began coughing up blood, moved about another 15 yards stopping 3 or 4 more times with large amounts of blood pouring from his nose and mouth area. After this he laid down and took his last breath. In total he traveled 40-45 yards and the whole scenario lasted less than 30 seconds. I saw the buck go down but wanted to follow the blood trail to confirm what I had witnessed from my stand. As expected, the blood trail was very heavy with blood everywhere. I realize this was caused by massive hemorrhaging because both lungs were punctured. It made me think that when someone claims they had a very heavy blood trail to follow after a double lung hit some if not most of the blood came from the mouth-nose area. Has anyone else actually witnessed this? As experienced before with very sharp single bevels the amount of tissue damage caused is similar to a rifle/shotgun killed deer. Double bevel, even with bleeders and 3 blade broadheads in my experience don’t cause as much hemorrhaging.

[Ptaylor]

#60785

Nice hunt Smiley!

Last year I hit a deer in one lung, and after tracking him for a ways (maybe 600 yards) he had stopped dripping blood and was only leaving blood in the track that the blood was flowing down the leg. So I was following a bloody footprint when I came on a small puddle of blood with bubbles in it. I guessed at the time that he had coughed it up.

[Stephen Graf]

#8384

My experience with the single bevel broadheads has been a little different from others…

The affects I can confirm are:

– massive internal bleeding and meat staining similar to a gunshot.

– Quick kills, most animals falling within sight in a few seconds.

What I can’t confirm is better blood trails. Like you, I have followed the blood trail of every deer I shot that fell within sight. In most cases, the blood trail was very light. Lighter than it was with 3 blade broadheads. Which is what you observed.

I have shot maybe 20 deer with single bevel heads over the last 6 years. Of those, 16 or so fell within sight.

And congrats on a nice deer, it looks like it will eat well! Good Job.

[David Coulter]

#9049

Smiley, Congratulations on a great hunt. Beautiful deer. best, david

[smiley1]

#10213

Steve,

I agree with everything you said about your experience with single bevels. I have killed about 25 deer since switching to single bevel heads about 8 years ago and my results are right on par with yours. 90% of the deer go down within sight and some act as if they aren’t even hit. Blood trails (except for this deer because of all the blood loss through the mouth-nose area) usually are rather sparse. I butcher all my deer myself and the tissue damage and internal bleeding is unbelievable!! This doesn’t necessarily translate to good blood trails but it does help tremendously with quick humane kills.

Steve

[DK]

#32695

I am with you guys. I have seen very little blood when trailing the two elk I have shot. I am think about switching to a Simmons or a three blade. I should probably leave well enough alone though. It worked both times

DK

[David Coulter]

#34565

Yesterday afternoon I killed my second deer with a bow. It was a button buck that came through two hours before the season ended. Amazingly, at about 8 yards I managed to hit him a bit far back, as he took a step as I was releasing. My bad. I can normally hit a golf ball at that range. The seeming lack of effort it took the arrow to disappear into the deer was sort of a surprise. It just seemed to melt in.

I braced myself for a long search, took most of my gear back to my car and came back for a slow track. The blood was not heavy, but unmistakable, with a splatter every few feet. I found him in less than 60 yards over the edge of a small hill, just out of sight.

When I butchered I found a neat hole in the liver. I am very grateful that the broadhead worked so well, the deer didn’t suffer long and I found him in short order. It was quite a relief. Dwc

[Alexandre Bugnon]

#36132

dwcphoto wrote: Yesterday afternoon I killed my second deer with a bow. It was a button buck that came through two hours before the season ended. Amazingly, at about 8 yards I managed to hit him a bit far back, as he took a step as I was releasing. My bad. I can normally hit a golf ball at that range. The seeming lack of effort it took the arrow to disappear into the deer was sort of a surprise. It just seemed to melt in.

I braced myself for a long search, took most of my gear back to my car and came back for a slow track. The blood was not heavy, but unmistakable, with a splatter every few feet. I found him in less than 60 yards over the edge of a small hill, just out of sight.

When I butchered I found a neat hole in the liver. I am very grateful that the broadhead worked so well, the deer didn’t suffer long and I found him in short order. It was quite a relief. Dwc

Congrats David!

[Ptaylor]

#38354

Smiley & Steve- Interesting phenomenon you are observing. Hopefully I’ll have something to add to it in a few years 😉

DWC- Congrats!!

[David Coulter]

#39955

Thank you, amigos. dwc

[Stephen Graf]

#42934

Good job David!

[Stephen Graf]

#47593

DK wrote: I am with you guys. I have seen very little blood when trailing the two elk I have shot. I am think about switching to a Simmons or a three blade….

I’ve been thinking the same thing. I’ve had this little voice in my head saying: “There sure ain’t much blood, but look there’s the deer so no big deal.” But the last deer I shot a few weeks ago that I lost to coyote’s might have turned out different had I had a better blood trail.

I was unsure of the hit, and so I backed out till the next morning as I found no blood. As it turned out, the deer didn’t go far. If I had a good blood trail, I probably would have kept looking. The arrow passed through both lungs.

I know quite a few hunters that use simmons heads. And they all give it rave reviews. Despite all these positive comments, I have stuck with the single bevel heads due to the good science Ashby did on them that proves they are killers.

Ashby’s work focused on really large game like asian buffalo. I am thinking that recovering deer may be easier with better blood trails. I think the single bevel heads offer superior penetration and so I would stick with them for elk and such. But for smaller game like deer, the better blood trial of a simmmons head may be more important than the two extra seconds it takes the deer to die…

A fellow I know just got back from hunting pigs in SC. He shot 4 pigs, 2 with simmons, 2 with abowyers. He recovered the two shot with simmons and neither of the two with abowyer. He’s a good hunter who has killed many animals. I trust his description of what happened. Anecdotal I know. But I’ve heard it too many times to ignore.

[Greg Ragan]

#48364

I think the sharp head has more to do with success than type of broadhead or bevel on deer sized game. I’ve been using ace standards with POC arrows and all 5 deer I’ve shot this year fell within 50 yards. One shot was the femoral (50 yard trail), one was a liver/gut (50 yard trail), one was a spine (dropped), a couple were decent shots to the cage 😳 (both were 25 yard trails!) My point is all were dead within easy yardage of the hit…. AND I was surprised my the internal trauma as well!

One interesting thing I am seeing is my hits from the ground seem to be more lethal then when I was in the tree due to the angle of the trauma:idea: Been grounded by a broken toe lately….

[DK]

#48585

I agree sharpness probably does have something to do with it. I cant get a single bevel as sharp as a double. But it is sharp enough to get complete pass through. Keep in mind I have only shot two elk with traditional tackle. I was always so worried about penetration. Now penetration is the last thing on my mind since both shots were complete pass through. I don’t know how my set up would fare on a shoulder shot though, even with a single bevel I don’t know if it would get through it anyway. 60lbs 680grains total 25foc. I was thinking about switching to a wider head to get a better blood trail. The bull I shot 2 years abo ran downhill and was a lone so tracking wasn’t that hard. The cow I shot this year was not alone and there were tracks everywhere. I shot her in the heart so I just found her. But if she wouldn’t have died so quick I would have been in trouble because the herd bolted in about 10 directions immediately. Hard to say what the best thing is.

[smiley1]

#49432

Congratulations David. That’s a great way to end the archery season

[Ptaylor]

#50830

Steve Graf wrote:

A fellow I know just got back from hunting pigs in SC. He shot 4 pigs, 2 with simmons, 2 with abowyers. He recovered the two shot with simmons and neither of the two with abowyer. He’s a good hunter who has killed many animals. I trust his description of what happened. Anecdotal I know. But I’ve heard it too many times to ignore.

Steve, I know this is getting off topic from the original thread, so maybe we should start a new one. But would you be able to describe to us where your friend thought the arrows hit the hogs? (The ones he couldn’t recover. And maybe a bit of what happened while he was tracking them?

Thanks,

Preston

[Stephen Graf]

#54410

I don’t want to get into a broadhead debate. They never solve anything. So I’ll describe what I know of the pig hunts, and leave it at that.

As Greg said, most any sharp broadhead will do the trick. Sharpness means less clotting of the wound. I can attest to that. My dang back quiver lets the arrows cut through the bottom (not bottom proper, but edge where sides meet bottom). When I adjust my quiver with my left hand to withdraw an arrow with the right hand, I have poked my hand a few times. Bleeds for a long time. Takes longer to heal. Dang quiver.

Ashby’s work is the best most complete work to date. If I had to criticize it, it would be that it doesn’t include data from deer sized critters (please correct me if I am mistaken). The assumption that the best broadhead for a water buffalo will also be the best broadhead for a deer may need evaluation. I make no judgements beyond that.

Back to the pigs… He killed a 90 pounder and 240 something pounder with the simmons. Both pass throughs. No help needed to find pigs. Shot low and tight to front leg.

The other two were “bigger than the 90 pounder” and shot behind the shoulder, maybe back a little. No pass through. No shoulder hit. Needed dog to track pigs. Blood petered out and pigs not found. Maybe they needed a better dog?

That’s all I know of the story except to add that the fellow he went with was using simmons and shot 4 pigs and recovered them all.

I wish I hadn’t mentioned the pig story as it wasn’t first person. Pure here say. For myself, I would still use the abowyers on pigs. They tough.

I have shot only one pig myself (with abowyer). Low and tight quartering away shot. Arrow stuck in off shoulder, no pass through. Pig went 20 yards. No blood trial…

[Ptaylor]

#57642

Shoot, if the dog couldn’t find it that’s tough tracking!

Interesting. A few things come to mind while I think about this:

Smiley and you both shot deer and got pass through shots, and very little in the way of a blood trail. The big bear I shot a few years ago did not have an exit wound and I only found one spot of blood on that trail (thank god I found him). The white-tailed buck I shot last year had no exit wound (one lung shot) and left a great blood trail (wish I had given him a few more hours before tracking, jumped him out of his bed after 3.5 hours and never saw him again). The bear I shot this year had an exit wound and left a great blood trail, but the shot was steeply angled down so the exit wound was in her brisket, that may be the reason the blood trail was so good. Your friend shot 2 hogs with exit wounds and found them, then shot 2 hogs with no exit wound and couldn’t find them.

I’m wondering why the deer you guys shot with pass throughs did not leave a blood trail? It makes sense that your friend’s hogs without an exit wound didn’t leave much of a blood trail. But then I had that buck last year with no exit wound leave a great blood trail (I may have hit a muscle in the leg on the way in, not sure exactly).

If the deer you guys had shot, had not died so quickly, might they have started to leave a good blood trail after 50 yards or some distance do you think?

I always thought the exit wound was the factor in getting a good blood trail, but not sure about that now.

I know one thing for sure: The more I hunt, the better tracker I strive to be. I tried to help a few hunters find bears they had shot this fall (rifle hunters). One was injured and eventually stopped bleeding, got on a road, and cruised never to be seen again. The other was shot on the top of the back and only left fat smears on branches that his back would rub up against. I followed that bear for 3 hours until the hunters (who had been out there for 3 hours before I showed up) were worn out and ready to quit. I actually think that bear was dead we just needed to find it, I had tracked it maybe 300 yards. Man it was tough tracking. They were ready to quit. I regret not being more upfront with those guys and pushing on for another couple hours. It’s really dry during our hunting seasons and the tracking is tough. It’s hard to age tracks without rain, and animal’s like bears just don’t leave much sign after the plants are doing growing and the ground is so hard packed. Without blood it sure is tough to retrieve an animal, but it makes me want to be a better tracker.

Thanks for the info Steve.

[Stephen Graf]

#58450

Ptaylor wrote: …I’m wondering why the deer you guys shot with pass throughs did not leave a blood trail?

Fred Bear once observed, and I have seen it too and wondered about it, that the skin of deer moves a lot over the body. the wound in the skin can be several inches from the wound in the body. The result is that the wound is essentially sealed.

That was the reason Fred said he got away from 2 blade broadheads. He said 3 blades, or 2 blades with bleeders, opened the wound enough so that it wouldn’t get sealed by skin movement.

From what I’ve seen of simmons shark holes, they are so long that the hole in the hide and the body have to overlap some.

Google simmons shark and look at the pictures. Some nasty holes….

[Ralph]

#59603

Y’all are making me think about putting some of my old Snuffers (I have 3 left after ???years) on some woodies for my quest of a longbow turkey.

Maybe some old Satellite Wasps on some carbons.

Those may be more effective on turkeys, do more damage on the way through.

I just have to have enough arrows to be able to shoot at the one that’s laughing so hard at my misses that it can’t dodge my arrow. 🙄

I too have had a good hit with a two blade that left only a few spots of blood.

Fortunately I made the shot early in the day and was able to spot the deer in an hour or so and it was down.

[David Coulter]

#60447

This thread started good and got better. Leave it where it is so we know where to find it.

With only two kills and one non lethal hit (best I could tell after tracking my best). The no lethal hit was with my old Shakespear Wasp, 2016 aluminum and Zwickey Eskomo up front. I only had a few inches of penetration. I believe it hit the femur. The arrow dropped out after 20 yards and I found the tip of the Eskomo curled back.

This all isn’t much in the way of data. For the time being, I’ll stick with my Tuffheads. I’m tuned well and they gave more than enough penetration. The doe of two years ago bled like a spigot. This years was decent, especially noting the less than ideal hit. Somehow I’m inclined to go with quick demise option. Some places I hunt are small wood lots surrounded by neighborhoods so I’d just as soon not have to track through back yards if I can help it.

Obviously to me, I need to work on picking the spot on my shot. That’s the main thing. All of this is personal thoughts, not meant as suggestion for anyone else.

Keep the conversation going. Thanks very much, dwc

[DK]

#61253

I will probably stick with the single bevel as well. I need to get them sharper. A friend shot a mulie in the high country two years ago with a grizzly bh. I think it was a Kodiak model. Long story short it went in bad and came out worse. And we found the buck a couple hours later. I think the way it spins in the cavity really causes major damage. There was not very much blood but it was a poor hit. Great thread

[Ptaylor]

#13328

Ptaylor wrote: Smiley and you both shot deer and got pass through shots, and very little in the way of a blood trail. The big bear I shot a few years ago did not have an exit wound and I only found one spot of blood on that trail (thank god I found him). The white-tailed buck I shot last year had no exit wound (one lung shot) and left a great blood trail (wish I had given him a few more hours before tracking, jumped him out of his bed after 3.5 hours and never saw him again). The bear I shot this year had an exit wound and left a great blood trail, but the shot was steeply angled down so the exit wound was in her brisket, that may be the reason the blood trail was so good. Your friend shot 2 hogs with exit wounds and found them, then shot 2 hogs with no exit wound and couldn’t find them.

I should have mentioned the above comments were some of my experiences with single bevel heads. I did kill a deer with a double bevel, 2-blade broadhead. That shot hit him through the heart, he died in 30 yards. But it was so thick I didn’t see him go down. The tip on the soft BH curled on impacting a rib on the way in, then stuck in an offside rib. So no exit wound. The blood trail was easy enough to follow. But that might have only been because of the thick brush. The blood sign was up at waist level rubbing off the deer’s side, I didn’t need to look for blood on the ground and don’t know if any fell to the forest floor.

I know there’s a lot more people folks with more experience than me out there and would love to hear your thoughts. Who has been hunting for a long time and made the switch to singe bevel? What are your experiences with blood trails & recovering game before and after?

[Don Thomas]

#62098

I’m glad everything worked out. Since it seems to be my time to cause controversy, I will offer a few thoughts based on experience with hundreds of follow-ups. Many factors influence the quality of a blood trail. Species–heavily furred animals like bears leave poor blood trials, unless they’ve been hit in the wrong spot. Anatomy–lungs are not vascular organs, and a perfect double-lung hit that kills cleanly can leave a poor blood trail. The position (or absence) of an exit wound. Overall, broadhead design isn’t that important, save for the ability to penetrate and create the latter. Lots of folks are making too much of blood during a tracking job, IMHO. A stricken animal leaves lots of sign that has nothing to do with blood, which often serves as nothing but confirmation that you are following the right track. Don

[Jason Wesbrock]

#14727

I have to agree with Don; folks fret way too much about potential blood trails when it comes to broadhead selection. I’ve killed several dozen whitetails with 2, 3, and 4 blade heads. They all leave more than sufficient blood trails. Some are heavier than others—which varies from animal to animal even with the same relative hit and broadhead—but there’s enough blood to follow. The only exception I can recall was a small buck I shot several years ago that took a step and turned toward me as I released. The exit was low and back, and a small bit of visceral clogged the wound. A friend and I found the animal the following day during a grid search.

If you get it sharp, get it flying straight and get it where it belongs, the rest takes care of itself.

[Ptaylor]

#22785

Don & Jason,

You both make good and valid points, and are speaking with lots of experience, way more than I have. But you cannot deny that recovering an animal is much easier with a good blood trail. It sounds like from your experiences, Jason, that you have not noticed better blood trails based solely on the type of broadhead used.

I guess the question is, do some broad heads create better blood trails than others? Assuming all else is equal (as you guys pointed out) same species, same shot placement, exit wound present or not. It seems like from people’s experiences that single bevel heads kill animals efficiently, but do they create better blood trails?

[Don Thomas]

#28862

Perfectly good question, Preston. I don’t know the answer, and think it would be impossible to prove scientifically one way or the other. We are dealing with the statistics of small numbers. Bowhunter A shoots a deer with Broadhead B, gets a good blood trial, and decides Broached B is great. He does it again, and he’s proved it. Real proof, if possible at all, would require a study that would be both ethically and socially unacceptable. So, let’s just shoot the heads we have confidence in based on experience. Don

[Greg Ragan]

#33318

Lots of factors play into the quantity of blood on the ground….too many variables really.

Here are a few that come to mind:

Fat content of the area hit

Which blood vessels and how many are hit (artery vs veins)

Angle of the impact and skin “play”

Chest cavity, abdomen, or muscle hit

2 holes or one

can organs block one of the holes (back to the shot angle)

Are the holes both high on the animal or low, or combo

shot from trees or on the ground

Is the animal pushed and stressed or allowed to lay down and bed (level of adrenalin

Was the animal jacked up before the shot or did he never even know you were there…..

The point is I don’t think you can count on a good blood trail all the time regardless unless you are shooting the same spot, same angle, same animal…a pretty impossible study and one I don’t think is really needed. The nature is an unpredictable and random thing…part of what we enjoy about it. No matter what you use on the end of your arrow be prepared for whatever the outcome.

Personally I have lots of experience with 4 blade razorheads and eclipse AND more recently 2 blades on animals. I can’t say I can tell a real difference between the 2 styles really….I have lost animals with both and have had 20 yard bloodtrails with both. Even if I had initial better blood with a 4 blade did not mean I recovered more of those animals….If I had less of a trail often the animal died just out of sight. Every situation is unique.

Now, for me I have gone to a 2 blade head because these are my main 3 aspects in a broadhead:

1. durability

2. ease of sharpening and touching up in the field with a file

3. economy

Your priorities may differ…if you are hunting moose or using a 40 pound bow #1 may be penetration…..if you are independently wealthy maybe cost is not a factor….

For all those interested I am shooting Ace standards now and have nothing but confidence in them. Do what Don says…pick one, shoot lots of stuff with it and move on. If you are blaming the broadhead for some failure your probably not looking at the correct root cause anyway….

cheers,

Greg

[Ptaylor]

#33356

That’s a good point Don. It would be unethical to perform a scientific study like this. I just like hearing other’s experiences, and hopefully can learn something along the way so I don’t repeat other’s mistakes. But there’s only so much we can affect by listening to advice, mainly our equipment and what to do in very specific circumstances. Otherwise, hunting is largely a matter of personal experience, time on the ground and in the woods, doing it.

Really, I enjoy having something intellectually engaging to discuss since my big game seasons are over (until I get invited on a hog hunt this winter, fingers crossed). I think I need to go squirrel hunting.

[jmsmithy]

#50522

Couldn’t agree more Don.

In 35 years of bow hunting, taking many many animals of varying species and size (raccoon to eland) and countless differing broadheads, I firmly believe that heads are similar to flies….fish the fly you have confidence in. You’ll fish it better, with better technique, confidently! If you are confident in your head I believe you’ll be more dialed in, pick smaller spots, take better, high percentage shots etc resulting in a better overall result.

Happy Thanksgiving All!!!

[Jason Wesbrock]

#34163

Last Friday I shot a doe at about 10 yards. The arrow entered the rear lobe of the near side lung, passed through the other, shattered the lower knuckle of the off side upper leg bone and stuck in the dirt (the broadhead was completely undamaged, for what it’s worth). The blood trail was one of those you could follow at a casual stroll without much effort at all. That was the fourth deer my wife and I have taken this year, all with regular two blade heads. The other three left blood trails that varied from excellent to somewhat thin but still more than sufficient.

[David Coulter]

#34945

J, congratulations on your deer! Thanks for posting how it went. I appreciate it. best, david

[Jason Wesbrock]

#35698

Thanks, David.

[grumpy]

#37985

Congrats J. When I grow up I want to be just like you!!! 😀

[Author]

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