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OK I thought I had this down. Let me start by stating up front I AM A LEFT HAND SHOOTER, since everything I read is tailored to righties.
In testing my steel insert and heavy field point (see “steel inserts” thread in the Friends of FOC) I started with my trusty 2018 bare shaft, and the 223gr field point and 181gr insert. For ME, as I understand it, shooting left handed, if the nock hits left of the point, the arrow is too stiff. If nock hits right of point, the shaft is too weak, right?
OK, here’s my problem. When I started with the above setup (recurve bow, shooting off the shelf, finger release, 10yd target) the arrows hit nock high and right. About 5″ high and 5″ right.
Sooo, assuming I had a too weak shaft, I took to the little lathe and trimmed the weight of the field point, down to 200gr. Still shoots about the same as before. OK trim it down to 180gr, still the same. My bad for nt checking basic bare shaft BEFORE making all the little toys.
Instead of cutting the tip down more, I tried a 125gr. Now is shoots straight in, but nock high. No biggie, nock set moved down. Nock hits higher yet, so move nock up, gets better, but in trying to get it perfect, it gets to a point of going even higher.
The best it ever got was hitting about 3″ high (nock) and straight left to right.
Then all of a sudden it seems it’s hitting nock right again, so I try a 100gr point, still right. So I go to alum insert, 180gr tip, still right. Then to 125gr tip, still nock right. What the heck am I doing wrong. I am careful with my form and release to be as consistent as possible. Thumb and forefinger holding the bow to lessen torque.
Help!
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Ok an update. It seems I can get as close to perfect bare flight as possible with the 181gr insert and 125gr field point, EXCEPT it still hits nock high.
Could that be the result of being so nose heavy. I cannot get the nock to go perfectly straight flight, no matter what I do. For reference I have gotten perfect flight bare shaft tuning other recurves before, that is why I am so puzzled.
The last setup was a 45lb recurve and 2114,s, but that was with field points only.
Also I moved the target back to 20yds and no difference from bbefore.
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Most of the time when bare shaft tuning, you will end up with a nock high arrow flight. This is ok.
Sometimes you can minimize it by adding a nock set under the arrow nock. Leave about 1/16 inch between arrow nock and lower nock set.
I like a lower nock set because it helps keep the arrow on the string, even if it doesn’t happen to help the tune…
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handirifle wrote: OK I thought I had this down. Let me start by stating up front I AM A LEFT HAND SHOOTER, since everything I read is tailored to righties.
In testing my steel insert and heavy field point (see “steel inserts” thread in the Friends of FOC) I started with my trusty 2018 bare shaft, and the 223gr field point and 181gr insert. For ME, as I understand it, shooting left handed, if the nock hits left of the point, the arrow is too stiff. If nock hits right of point, the shaft is too weak, right?
OK, here’s my problem. When I started with the above setup (recurve bow, shooting off the shelf, finger release, 10yd target) the arrows hit nock high and right. About 5″ high and 5″ right.
Sooo, assuming I had a too weak shaft, I took to the little lathe and trimmed the weight of the field point, down to 200gr. Still shoots about the same as before. OK trim it down to 180gr, still the same. My bad for nt checking basic bare shaft BEFORE making all the little toys.
Instead of cutting the tip down more, I tried a 125gr. Now is shoots straight in, but nock high. No biggie, nock set moved down. Nock hits higher yet, so move nock up, gets better, but in trying to get it perfect, it gets to a point of going even higher.
The best it ever got was hitting about 3″ high (nock) and straight left to right.
Then all of a sudden it seems it’s hitting nock right again, so I try a 100gr point, still right. So I go to alum insert, 180gr tip, still right. Then to 125gr tip, still nock right. What the heck am I doing wrong. I am careful with my form and release to be as consistent as possible. Thumb and forefinger holding the bow to lessen torque.
Help!
After reading the above it seems you are having a slight release problem.
For things to change without any adjustment to the arrow tells it all. I know alot of folks think they have the same release all the time. However, this is not true.
On average your release will get better after a few shots then turn south as your body starts to tire.
As the ol’ saying goes, “been there done that”. If you see a change in shaft impact or flight after shooting for awhile, take a break. Several hours break is best. Then start over. Most likely you will be off at first then get better.
Troy
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Steve beat me to it. Add a second nock set below the arrow and I’ll bet you can tune away that nock high problem in no time.
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J.Wesbrock wrote: Steve beat me to it. Add a second nock set below the arrow and I’ll bet you can tune away that nock high problem in no time.
I suspected I might be getting tired as well as frustrated, so I did stop.
What does the second nock do?
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It keeps the arrow from sliding down the string during the shot. If that happens you, the back of the arrow will bounce off the shelf giving the appearance of being nock high
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Ok worked it a bit more tonight, going in a slightly different direction. Thinking back to when the arrow kept showing too weak of spine, and I kept taking weight off the tip, I went with the 180gr steel insert, and the 180gr field point.
This time, I cut an inch off the arrow (2018) and BINGO. Lined up perfectly, although still a little nock high. I suspected, so I checked, and 27″ was too short with a broadhead, so I went with 27 1/8, measured from bottom of nock to end of arrow shaft. That little bit keeps me from bottoming out on the riser. Oh yes, I did add a second nock set, as suggested. Didn’t change anything that I could tell.
Question, If It does turn out that I AM pulling the lower limb in, would changing to a higher (more straight wrist) wrist help this? Or would I be better served by just concentrating on NOT doing that?
I am starting to suspect that form MIGHT be my culprit on the nock high. I say might cause it’s a theory right now.
I am wondering if I might be pulling the lower limb towards me upon release, thus kicking the back of the shelf up and causing the nock to rise. Just a thought.
I am in the midst of getting the trailer ready for a trip Thursday, but when we get back, I might use the digital camera and video myself and see if that is the case.
Just for kicks, I put the heavy insert and heavy field point into a fletched arrow to see how it went. Now bear in mind, this is a bow I got off Ebay about 3 years ago and have never been consistent with it no matter what I tried. There isn’t anything PHYSICALLY wrong with the bow, I knew that, but I have never really tuned arrows to it either.
About 6 months back, I found that 2113’a flew very well, and once I chopped about 1.5″ off some cedar arrows, so did they. Hey, there might be something to this “matching the arrow to the bow” thing. 😉
Here also, I must confess that I read Dr. Ashby’s articles, at least some of them, and kinda felt like Ho Hum….not because they were boring or incorrect, they were neither, but because I lacked the energy or excitement, or the funds to take on another expensive chore of buying arrow and expensive heads for another inch or two of penetration. That was my impression.
Back to the fletched arrow, For the first time EVER since shooting this bow, I am able to hit where I am looking CONSISTENTLY. By that I mean that my field point target is a 24″ x 24″ x 24″ cardboard box, stuffed to near splitting point with plastic grocery bags. This has lasted me years. I have to swap boxes every now and then, but just reuse the bags. I have 5 bullseyes spray painted on each of 4 sides. EVERY time I moved to a different bullseye, I hit it. This is 10yds mind you, so nothing to write home about, BUT, the consistency is HUGE.
In addition, I get to use the heavy field point AND insert, for a real high EFOC (I know this isn’t in the FOC section), just mentioning that I did notice that the heavy FOC setup penetrates twice as deep as my std setup. That’s 6″ compared to 12″. I noticed the same when trying broadheads into my foam target, so I am please to finally match my heavy weights to the right arrow spine.
We get back home Monday, so sometime after that I will do the video and see if I can find why the nock is going high.
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