Ashby on arrow weight — just posted

[David Petersen]

#3086

Friends — We’ve just posted Dr. Ashby’s 2008 Study upate, part 2, which compares penetration performance of light arrows from heavy bows, against that of heavy arrows from light bows (40#). You’ll find it at the bottom of the menu page in the Ashby Library. Direct link is https://www.tradbow.com/members/309.cfm Dave

[Patrick]

#16314

😯 Those are some pretty crazy results!

I’d like to know what the specifications for the 31.9% FOC arrow if available.

[Daniel]

#16471

Hi David,

I didn’t know if this would be the right place to mention this but I’ll experience what I seen three years ago in Alberta while on a deer hunt. The fella I was hunting with was using a 45 lbs bow, 27″ draw and using high EFOC arrow/broadhead combinations. His shafts must have weighed in at over 700 grains. The only difference with his set up was that he was using a solid 3 piece 300 grain broadhead. One afternoon, as he was returning from his morning hunt, we met on the road that accessed the south portion of the fields and with a long look on his face, he said he had missed a deer. As he was standing still behing a pile of brush, a couple of deer walked by at 12 yards, he shot a buck and said that he seen the arrow hit dead center of the shoulder blade and the arrow broke off right behind the broadhead. This meant very little penetration and a missed deer. After looking all over during that afternoon, no deer was found.

That is where I learned this lesson, even with a EFOC, you still need to consider using the right type broadheads ( 2 blade ) to get the job done right. Now, I don;t know if a two blade would have done the job in those circimstances but that is why I only use two blade broadheads today.

[Patrick]

#16491

StandingBear wrote: As he was standing still behing a pile of brush, a couple of deer walked by at 12 yards, he shot a buck and said that he seen the arrow hit dead center of the shoulder blade and the arrow broke off right behind the broadhead. This meant very little penetration and a missed deer. After looking all over during that afternoon, no deer was found.

Do you know what arrow he was using? Did it break behind the threaded part of the broadhead, or at the threaded part? Was he using a 300 Xtreem broadhead? Inquiring minds want to know.:lol:

[Chris Shelton]

#16648

Sounds to me like it was just a case of bad shot placement? And not his set up???

[sapcut]

#16664

It may have been bad shot placement..but a better setup would have turned that ordeal into a dead recovered deer.

That is the whole point behind Dr. Ed’s research.

[Daniel]

#16710

Patrick, the arrow was a carbon shaft and it broke 1 inch behind the insert where you screw the broadhead in the shaft.

As for the type of broadhead used, I think that is what he used. It was a solid 3 blade broadhead with no venting.

Now, I have seen what a two blade does to a moose scapula but I’ve not seen what a three blade would do in that same spot.

Shot placement is so crucial I say but if you put all the chips on your side, perhaps there could have been a different outcome to his hunt.

SB

[Patrick]

#16743

Thanks SB. Exactly as I had imagined. It makes sense. That broadhead has a broad, pyramid tip, which keeps it out of the cut-on-impact club in my book. From what I can tell, in the only photo of it I’ve seen, that tip has to “plow through” the animal so that the cutting edges can do their job, which would greatly reduce penetration, as in the above referenced case.
Arrow-wise, I’d be COMPLETELY shocked if it was a GrizzlyStik. After all the abuse I’ve put mine through, I am ALMOST of the mind to think they are indestructable. Seriously, I have thought I’d snapped them in half, split the end, but haven’t hurt one yet.

[sharpster]

#50532

StandingBear wrote: Patrick, the arrow was a carbon shaft and it broke 1 inch behind the insert where you screw the broadhead in the shaft. SB

Now that sounds familiar… There’s a perfect example of the primary advantage of using internal footings, particularly with carbons. A 4″ tapered internal footing would have added greatly to the structural integrity of the shaft/BH setup. The internal footing also would have provided the added benifit of even greater FOC.

Ed’s research points out much more than the 2 blade vs. 3 vs. 4 issue or the single bevel vs. double, or high FOC vs. low. While these are the primary topics of discussion, one of the most important (and most overlooked) topics of the Ashby reports is the critical importance of the structural integrity of the broadhead, shaft, and the connection of the two.

I’m sure there will be questions about internal footings. Hopefully Ed will chime in here with some advanced footing info.

Ron

[David Petersen]

#50953

Sharpster, friend and teacher, you are absulutely right of course about Ed’s stress on arrow structural integrity — right up there with perfect arrow flight and scalpal-sharp broadheads. So not to take away from that, but rather to also agree with others who are implying that the comparitely poor penetration of 3-blades in general compared not only to 2-blade but 4-blades as well (as documented in the earliest Natal studies and confirmed consistently in subsequent studies by Ashby) — this resistane to penetrate translates to greatly increased impact shock and thus a higher incidence of shaft breakage. Goes in easy = less shock and less shaft breakage no matter point of impact or shot angle. My experience, my belief. dave

[sharpster]

#51205

I couldn’t agree more Dave. Wise words as usual. I just like to remind folks about that structural integrity thing every chance I get. It’s a drum I beat on a daily basis. In fact it’s just about as near and dear to my heart as shot placement, and the level of broadhead sharpness. The depth of Ed’s work is so vast that some very critical aspects don’t get nearly as much attention as thay should. I try to point out the less talked about but equally important stuff when the oppertunity presents itself.

Ron

[Daniel]

#52128

Structural integrity, very important point, I think that’s what Trophy Ridge used to beef up the front of their arrow, makes sense. I like their set up too.

SB

[David Petersen]

#52861

Talk about beefed-up arrow front-ends, check out the pics in previous posts of KingWouldBe’s setup — armor-piercing integrity there! dp

[Daniel]

#53603

How did KingWouldBe build his arrows? They look absolutely ROCK SOLID !!!!!!!!!

SB

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