ASH

[grumpy]

#2835

My big brother, Mike, is sending me some Ash (he uses the ash to make stuff for the canoes he makes) to make bows with. Has anyone ever tried to use Ash? Going to recurve it and back with fiber glass (as I do with the red oak). He is sending me 6 pieces, any bets on how many will end up in the campfire? Will I actually get to shoot an arrow with any of them, or will they break while stringing? Don’t be shy, I’m tough enough to take all comments.

[Doc Nock]

#13465

You’re a pretty crafty fella, Grumps!

I tried Ash arrows and got my nickname… dangest twisted ornery grained crap I ever saw! Hell for stout arrows though…but getting them straight was a major PnA!!!

Run out on grain was ridiculous!

Good luck getting it to behave for a bow! I hear if it’s cut on the bias along the grain, causes lots of waste, but makes excellent arrow wood…never heard about use in bows…but then, I have enough trouble shooting glass backed bows… let alone ever contemplate building one!

you go boy!:shock:

[Doc Nock]

#13534

for what is’ worth department…

The first piece of ASH I got was in Helena MT when I lived there and Mt. St. Helens blew! :lol::shock::roll:

[Ptaylor]

#13710

yep, I’ve made a few bows out of ash. It works great. And it steams well and bends easily for making recurved tips in selfbows. Let us know how it goes.

[Ralph]

#13887

Nothing like a good piece of ASH for good bow I hear. Heavy arrows too:)

I too, like Doc, had issues with getting the shafts straight. Seems like they had a lot of memory and wouldn’t stay that way.

[Stephen Graf]

#14372

I have never made a bow from Ash, but I have heard and read that it works just fine, as has already been said.

If I was going to all the trouble to make a bow that way, I’d back it with rawhide, or sinew or something. Much more spirit in that than glass. Though I prefer glass bows for durability. If you go with glass, you have to go all the way. Face and back.

Putting glass on one side only is a recipe for failure. Just saying…

[grumpy]

#14584

Thanks for the humor Doc, needed that.

I’m using fiberglass fabric, not the solid fiberglass. Every time I’ve put it on the belly, it delaminated when I tried to put the string on. I’ve several fiber glassed backed bows which work well. However I seem to have hit a limit, can’t seem to make a reliable bow over 45# (given my 22″ draw, and the 48″ length). Have two experiments in progress (red oak), and the ash is coming. Trying a bigger recurve (like the Fred Bear 48″ bows) which may solve the problem.

Mike is sending me 6 pieces of Ash, so I may get a good fire out of it if nothing else. Does Ash burn well? It IS kiln dried in Mikes kiln.

[Mark Turton]

#14952

I have an ash bow, shoots nice but the draw weight changes with humidity and if its left strung too long. To unpredictable to hunt with.

Friend of mine made one and backed it with rawhide, very nice, but at 70# to much for me, this you could confidently hunt with.

If the ash has been coppiced you’ll get some nice straight grained timber if its from a wild grown tree it can be all over the place.

Interested to see what you make of it, Mark.

[grumpy]

#16809

What is coppiced?

Mike buys the wood (both the cedar for canoes and the ash) in Canada (goes up to get it himself), then kiln dries it in his own kiln (nobody else would do it good enough for Mike). It is from mature (really old) trees, and I am sure it is straight grained.

I’m getting excited about this. Maybe it will be like before when I snuck out of work early and stayed up late working on bows. :D:D

[William Warren]

#16866

Now all ash may not be equal but I’m no expert on which is best. I just know I have some growing on my lot so I cut a small tree and split it in quarters. Once dried I made one of the prettiest self bows I ever made. Shot it three times before it exploded and whopped me on the head. So then I made another one (glutton for punishment) and backed it with rawhide. It also chrysalled but the rawhide saved my noggin this time. No more ash self bows for me! Doc, I made some long lasting arrows from the same tree, heavy but great stump shooters.

[Mark Turton]

#18606

Grumpy

This explains better than I can http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing

Most of the oak where I live was coppiced for charcoal.

Ash was often used for carriage shafts, baseball bats etc.

And then there is Yggdrasil, the tree of life.

Mark.

[grumpy]

#20105

If you had said suckers I would have known immediately. They are everywhere, including the tree that I cut down because it was growing too close to the garage. We also hav a dogewood that was damaged in the “Halloween Blizzard” a few years back (lost most of its branches, and the trunk broke off at 5 feet). The suckers have grown so that it is the healthiest looking dogwood in town.. if you don’t look under the leaves.

BTW Where do you live?

[Mark Turton]

#21844

Hi Grumpy, Worcestershire, UK. Kids are convinced I live in the dark age.

Mark.

[grumpy]

#22360

UK, my forbears were kicked out of there for belonging to a religious cult some 3 or 4 hundred years ago.

The ash arrived. Mike cut it exactly as I asked, he’s the picky brother. Straight grained, and no knot waves in the grain. Six “blanks” to make bows with. The first is tapered and steamed on one end drying on a form. I’ll let it dry 24 hrs. and steam the other end as I do with the red oak. Unless some one of you tells me something different. Then fiberglass. May have a bow by the end of the weekend.

[grumpy]

#24642

OK, I’ve shaped the bow, steamed/bent the recurves, and the fiberglass is on. Tomorrow I’ll trim the fiberglass, shape the riser, and put a string on it. THEN… I’m really feeling good about this. The ash is more resilient than the oak, thus I shouldn’t have the breakage I’ve been seeing. Seems like there is a wall I keep hitting at 45#. If I make the bow any stronger than that, the oak breaks. Sometimes at the recurve, sometimes at the riser, sometimes in the middle of the limb. Tried changing the recurve to no avail. Stronger riser didn’t work either.

I think I’ve solved the delamination problem I had last week. I used my brush to get the resin out of my measuring cup, before adding the hardener. Thus when I put the resin on the bow, the brush was loaded with resin with no hardener. Seems dumb, right? YOU would never do that, would you! Well, now that I’ve made a fool of myself, I guess not. 😀

[Bernie Clancey]

#26244

Grumpy, you are really experimenting with the fibreglass and resin backing. Good to see some innovation going on in bow building. But, I was comparing it to our normal building process where we would use epoxy, as opposed to resin when making a glas bow. From following along this thread it seems your resin is working, but I wondered if you switched to epoxy if it would make any difference.

You might want to pick up some epoxy, soak the glas in it and then apply it to the bow. I suggest this because I have worked with both and found resin much more brittle and less flexible then epoxy. Not sure if it would make a difference but thought I would pass this along.

I have made several ash bows and all failed in some fashion. Crystalled, broke, one limb would simply go weak. Finally switched to ironwood and made a couple real shooters out of it.

[Mark Turton]

#26272

Hi Grumpy, we have religious folks on every street corner now, they would probably be considered ultra conservative now.

Looking forward to seeing how the bow turns out.

Mark.

[grumpy]

#26308

Monday morning at work… I do not want to be here!!

IT WORKED!!!! Shot well, with no weak spots in the limbs, no delamination, no loss of recurv. Didn’t sand it completely, just trimmed the f’glass enough to string and shoot it. Guessing it pulled at around 35 to 40#. Not enough. I added more f’glass, and we will see if the ASH will allow me to break the 40# wall. I would really like to be home trimming the F’glass and shooting it to see if it works. Taking a risk here as I am not supposed to go into web sites on this ‘puter, but How doe’s ANTBODY expect me to concentrate on work at a time like this?? UT OH we have a problem….

[Mark Turton]

#26379

Consider it work place therapy, that will inevitably lead to improved productivity and a happier employee.

[grumpy]

#26738

You got it right Pothunter. Actually the boss (or one of them) looked over my shoulder and winked.

We have success!!!! Trimmed it, and shot a dozen arrows. No bulls eyes, but they were all within 8″ of the bulls eye (35′). Haven’t measured the draw weight, but it is the strongest I have made, and that is over 40. You can tell it is hitting the target harder by the THWACK, and the arrows just look like they are going faster. Do we call that DEAD ANIMAL??? Some things I don’t like about the riser, but I have 5 ash blanks, left. Now, I will make some effort to make it pretty.:D

[grumpy]

#30033

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!!:(

The riser wasn’t strong enough. It split and split the ash with it. OK, the riser was only 1/4″ thick, which is the thinnest riser I have made yet, and was oak (brittle). Next one I’m going to use 2 pieces of 1/4″ epoxied together. That way it should not split. I’m also going to get the G FLEX Epoxy. It’s pricey. $60 for a qt. vs $10 for the stuff at the big box store. Again, I have the feeling I could have bought a bow for a lot less than I have spent, and I am REALLY glad I’m not keeping track of how much this is costing. On the other hand, I want a bow that pulls over 40# AT MY DRAW LENGTH (22″), and shorter than I am (5′).

[grumpy]

#46729

So much for Ash 001. I made Ash 002 with the beefier riser and also got some insight into the delaminating. As you recall from building the bow, I used the plastic shot glasses to mix the resin. I think I stepped on the plastic shot glasses. Not sure, but somehow they are gone. The directions on the can said to use paper cups, so I was using Dixie bathroom cups. Well, when I called 3M (guys that make the stuff) they said NOT to use waxed cups. Apparently that was the problem. I used cupcake liners (no wax) and ASH 002 is strong and has shown no sign of delaminating. Haven’t actually measured the pull, but it is the strongest bow I have made yet. I was barely able to pull it the first time. Sanding the excess resin/fiberglass brought it down a bit, and since I’ve been shooting it about a week, the arm/shoulder/back muscles are getting stronger. Still feels like work, but should be fine in a few weeks. Shooting several dozen arrows every night and the groups are getting closer, and tighter. 😀

Working on backup bows for both me and Audrey with Oak risers, and Ash limbs. When I have the time, I’ll post pics.

Farmer friend said I am welcome to hunt on his land (and his neighbors) and have scouted 3 Wildlife Management Areas. I know where the deer are, now if I can be there at the same time the are…

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