Arrow tuning

[Tomcat]

#6337

Im having problems tuning my setup. Right now I have a 50lb fiberglass recurve (maybe slightly over since my draw is 30in) with carbon shafts shooting 100gr heads. I didnt cut the factory shafts since they were tuned for the 100gr heads right off the bat. I messed with the knocking point for a bit and have been with this setup for over half a year now and am quite happy.

Anyhow, I decided to change the weight of my tip to 125gr since it opens up a better selection of broad heads and I will be hunting regularly with this set up. So i went back to shooting through paper with a bare shaft and trying to take off 1/4 inch at a time until i didnt have any horizontal problems. When I was almost where I needed to be, the arrow started flying knock high consistently…. and I mean really knock high. like 6 inches. I tried shooting from different distances, I tried raising and lowering the knocking point ….nothing worked. Now Im all bitter and twisted and its really frustrating me.

Can somebody help?

[Robin Conrads]

#50578

Hi Tomcat. Welcome to the site. That sure sounds like a frustrating problem. I’m sure one of the “regulars” will be along soon to make some suggestions. It sounds like you are doing the right things but you might check out an article we ran called Tuning 101. There are several folks here who shoot carbon and they can probably add some insight. Good luck.

[Mark Turton]

#51001

Hi Tomcat, to begin I’m no expert, a very strange result you’ve done no different than most people.
This is one arrow that you have been experimenting with has it been damaged during the shortening or shooting process? try shortening another arrow to confirm your results. Also check the knock has not split.
That’s all I can offer, will be interested to see what others suggest.
And welcome to the site.
Mark.

[Stephen Graf]

#51055

A six inch tear isn’t likely a “real” result. My guess is that your target got too close to the paper and thus the arrow was entering the target before getting all the way through the paper.

Move the target back at least 2 arrow lengths…

[Bender]

#52813

Paper tuning while shooting with a finger release can sometimes be problematic. I would reccomend try 2 things. In this order, 1), add a second nock set. Check the results of that and if still no go then, 2) try bare shaft tuning as outlined here:http://www.bowmaker.net/index2.htm

[Tomcat]

#54515

OK. So I read the article (really good one BTW), checked over the shaft for damage and made sure the paper was sufficiently far back. Same deal. Re-checked it with my 100gr tipped arrows…all was fine, one triangular hole.

This is hitting me on an emotional level.

Does anyone have Masters of the Barebow 2? I bought it before, but after lending it to good friends, people just ended up forgetting about it and making excuses. I remember in one chapter, the owner of Black Widow Bows talks about arrow tuning and then describes this phenomenon that happens to a small percentage of people of how the bow set up always shoots knock high, and the reasoning for it. Could someone help me out?

[Stephen Graf]

#55563

I don’t have the second video, so I can’t help there. But I am still wondering if there isn’t something simple that is being overlooked. I say this because the difference in tear seems too dramatic.

My experience with carbon arrows is that I can vary the weight of a point 100 grains without much change in arrow flight.

My experience with paper tuning is that it is helpful with compound bows and releases, but for finger release trad bows it’s not that helpful.

I have a friend who always shoot bare shafts into the target butt nock high. No matter what. But his arrows fly just fine. It bothers him too. My bare shaft arrows fly just like my fletched arrows. (This may speak to the point in the video you mentioned)

Have you tried bare shaft tuning? Or how about just putting those heavier points into your regular arrows and shooting them. How do they fly when you shoot at 20 yds?

One more question/observation while I am wasting your time… 125 grains isn’t much more than 100 grains. If you are going to take the time(and suffer all the frustration 😈 ) to change your setup, why not up your point weight to 150 or 175, or… 200 grains?

[Tomcat]

#56276

Actually I am bare shaft tuning… just through paper. I would gladly go up to 150 or so. Broadhead selection improves drastically as weight goes up, but if I cant get 125s to work properly… I dont see 200s in my near future.

[Stephen Graf]

#56572

Bare shaft tuning – shooting an unfletched arrow into a target and observing the angle of entry – left/right and or up/down. No paper involved. Shooting distance about 15 yds.

Paper Tuning – shooting an arrow (fletched or unfletched) through paper at a shooting distance of 6 feet or so. Observe angle of tear in paper. Determine point entry and nock passage to determine angle of arrow in flight. Tricky stuff.

Try shooting bare shaft into target at 15 yds. See if you get the same results as your paper tuning test is showing. 3/4 in high nock ok. Nock left, weak shaft. Nock right, stiff shaft.

Nothing gained by “sneaking up” on point weight. If you have access to heavier field tips, give it a try 150, 175, 200, 250…

I am guessing your carbon arrow with a 100 grain point weighs 500 grains or less. Going to a 125 grain tip changes your weight by 1/20th (5%) or so.

I’m sorry I don’t have anything better to tell you… It seems you have found the opposite of the sweet spot for your arrow setup. So instead of dwelling on it, get as far away from it as you can. Add more weight…

[Tomcat]

#56974

Sorry for my ignorance. I was doing paper tuning. But I did notice that they are flying very knock high and impacting very low of point of aim regardless. It can be seen as it flies.

You make an interesting point with the “opposite sweet spot” theory. Ill have to buy some more field points.

On the up side, if your right, Ill get to use some heavy broad heads, which brings my arrows slightly more F.O.C. And beveled 2 blades will really shine here.

[Bender]

#57017

Did you ever try the second nock set? One above and one below the arrow nock?
As you cut 1/4″ at a time, how much total have you wound up cutting off?
When everything went totally pear shaped and you stsrted getting the crazy nock high, did everything also get real noisy with a rather obnoxious sound like a click, clank, clunk, or whack type sound?
If so you have accidentally gone too stiff, the tail of the arrow is striking the riser making that sound, and although that situation will in general give a false weak reading, it none the less totally destroys arrow flight in all sorts of interesting (and confusing and misleading) ways.

[Tomcat]

#57232

So I tried once again to shoot it in the garage and didnt hear any loud noises. Sounds like the rest of the arrows, nice and quite. The end of the arrow/back of the field point sticks out 4 inches from the center of the shelf and I cut off a total of 1 7/8 from the full length of the shaft. So from the full length of 32 inches which i use for 100gr, i have cut it back to 30 1/8in.

[Bounty Hunter]

#9196

When bare shaft tuning you never use paper and you never pay attention to the nock end of the arrow only the impact on the target.

Basic Bare Shaft Tuning:
What we are basically trying to do is get our bare shafts and fletched arrows to hit in the same point. This is accomplished by changing the spine of the arrow shaft. If your arrows are not spined correctly you may never get your arrows to fly correctly.

Lets first look at the technique:
What I like to do is stand about 10 yards from my target and I shoot three fletched arrows into the target and three bare shaft or non-fletched arrows into the target. You should be able to get a decent group from both the fletched and non-fletched arrows. The key is to really focus on form and make sure that you don’t introduce any torque into the bow. You might want to try this several times to make sure that your results are repeatable. Hopefully, after a few times you should be able to see the pattern.

Bare Shafts hitting higher than Fletched Shafts – Your Nock Point is too Low.
Move your Nock Point Higher and retest until both sets of shafts are impacting at the same height.

Bare Shafts hitting lower than Fletched Shafts – Your Nock Point is too High.
Move your Nock Point Lower and retest until both sets of shafts are impacting at the same height.

Bare Shafts hitting right of your Fletched Shafts – Your Arrow Spine is too Weak.
You have a few options to correct this problem;
1. Shorten your arrow shaft (the shorter the shaft the stiffer it will become) by half an inch and retest. Repeat this until both sets of shafts are impacting at the same place.
2. Change to a stiffer spined shaft and restart your testing.
3. Change to a lighter point and restart your testing.

Bare Shafts hitting left of your Fletched Shafts – Your Arrow Spine is too Stiff.
You have a few options to correct this problem;
1. Change to a heavier point and restart your testing.
2. Change to a weaker spined shaft and restart your testing.
3. Your shafts are too short (only if the shafts have been previously cut) and you need to go with full length shafts and restart your testing.

Now if your fletched arrows are kicking nocks right or left you either still have a spine problem or a form problem. The biggest thing to remember is take your time and don’t get in too much of a rush it will only cause you problems and make you very frustrated. Oh and a little weak is much better than a little stiff. Fletching will stiffen the spine of an arrow and also a little weak is much more forgiving than a little stiff. Good Luck and I hope this has helped some.

[Author]

Posts