Just finished viewing and listening to Dr. Kraus’ presentation, and was really intrigued. I never would have thought selective logging would have such a negative impact on an environment. Makes me wonder how much of an impact we have on our surroundings in nature, even as we stealthily try to slink about.:roll: Wayne

real cool video. I think nobody thought there would be any negative impacts. I remember elk hunting in the 90’s and folks were saying clear cuts are great for elk, they love it. Well think again. No wonder I get so mad when I hike in and find somebody tore up a wallow with a motorized vehicle.Great info thanks

Once again David puts the point in the center of the issue. Check out Mr. Krause’s book “Notes from the Wild” includes CD. The CD is best listened to outside on a moonless night–the recording of the Jaguar will send chills up your spine. Read somewhere recently that the areas he recorded in from 68–96—don’t quote me on this–60% are no longer wild.

Criminal IMHO.

Mike

Dave

Yes I thinks she probably starts hovering over the delete key when she sees we are both online. Couldn’t log on to this site for last 24 hours so sent her a note this morning asking if I had done something to offend–turns out it was our confuser–but I did detect a note of glee in Robins reponse:D

Book and CD in mail tomorrow my friend.

Semper Fi

Mike

The blisters on my delete finger are starting to heal. 8) Thanks for playing nice. Mike, I’m glad your computer is working again and you can join us.

Give me a few more weeks to train the new Subscription office staff and then I’ll be able to keep up with you two!

TED Talks are a fantastical thing. There are some really inspiring ones…

This talk was right up there. It builds on what I have heard about the marine world and sounds. And how shipping sounds are fouling the environment and sickening marine mammals and other creatures.

But I wonder, how did he know it was the male beaver that survived the dingle berry duo that dynamited the family? My understanding is that unless you open them up, and know what you are looking for, it is almost impossible to tell sex. I know I can’t tell. Or was it lactating?

My guts tell me it was the female that lived.

This was a good link Dave. This topic touches on so many different levels of a traditional bow hunter’s experience that I don’t even know where to begin with my thoughts. I’ll share a quick story about human impact.

I lived for many years in Norway, which is one of Western Europe’s main “wild places”. The country has a very low population in relation to it’s size and the dense populations are centered around the larger cities (Oslo, the capital, having somewhere around 700,000 when I was in country. The total population of the country somewhere around 3.5 Mill). I always lived in very rural areas up in the mountains. Being an American kid who grew up hunting, fishing, and skiing in North Dakota, I was used to spending most of my time outside within these past times and continued with such. I made friends who took me hunting and fishing and shared their country with me and saw some very beautiful places. One thing which always struck me hard was the low numbers of game and fish in the areas we were in. I was always looking around and thinking to myself “this looks like good habitat, so where is the game, why doesn’t this water hold fish?”. It should be known that Norwegians are very good a some basic things. One being fishing with nets, and another being forest management and logging. If the landmass isn’t high alpine/tundra, it has forest on it. They have perfected selective logging to point of making the forest look manicured. You drive down quiet roads through the mountains and the underbrush has been cleared out and the trees are all spaced nearly evenly from one another. Being a child of the prairie, I expected to see game coming out into the fields early and late in the day. I would almost never see game. I learned through years spent there, they just don’t have the numbers we have in North America. I initially thought this was due to a lack of quotas during their hunting seasons. They do have bag limits, but they seemed very liberal to my American experience. They didn’t seem to understand “game management”. I now believe the lack of game was do to all of the logging and destruction of habitat which has taken place for a very long time. It seems they have learned to manage their land too well. They had Reindeer herds in the mountains which seem to do very well as the high alpine tundra where they live is very regulated with no off road vehicles allowed (that means no ATV’s and no snow machines. Yay!!!). I did find some populations of European Red Stag, Moose (very similar to our Shiras Moose), and Roe deer in the deepest valleys which were off the beaten path and thus had seen the least amount of managed forest and undergrowth. I could go on and on with this but don’t want to offend my Norsk friends:) They do many things very well.

I live in the area of the Black Hills of SD. This mountain/hill range is another prime example of human impact both with logging and virtually unlimited access to ATVs and off road vehicles by logging roads. There are so many beautiful places I have found while fly fishing and crawling around which seem like they should hold a lot of game. There is habitat which screams “I was made for moose and elk”, but there is no “official” moose population in the whole area! People just don’t realize the impact we have been having on our wild places for the past many years and I fear it is nearly beyond saving without drastic measures to limit our impact on access and the destruction of wildlife corridors through these areas! It seems so much of our American Dream has become our motorized vehicles and large houses right in the middle of our best habitat. We as traditional bow hunters are part of a small group of stewards for dwindling wild places. I feel we know better than most just how full of life the places we hunt can be. We also know how quickly a place can be “ruined” by human impact. Enough of my rant for the night as I don’t want to contribute to the “delete finger blister syndrome” our Web Mother has been fighting:)

Thanks again for sharing a great link Dave.

Jans

Great link, scary implications. Alas a motley crew of scientists, ethical, informed hunters and tofu munching vegans don’t seem to stand much of a chance against all the other forces weighing against them. Where’s Teddy Roosevelt when you need him? Or the monkeywrench gang 😉

Interesting video. Makes one ponder clear cutting as well. It also makes a person consider what a better way would be for logging and forest management?

The thing I dwelled on for a few days was the toad song. That something can be competitive and cooperative at the same time is intriguing.

There aught to be a word for it. Maybe there is, and our word smiths can tell us what it is…

Steve Graf wrote: There aught to be a word for it.

Society. Unless you’re an ant 😉

Jim and Dave,

I’ve got a word that describes both of you… Toads! 😆

David Petersen wrote: Jim — Watch for my next book, which is being edited by the ghost of Abbey. 😛

I’m rather excited at the thought of that Dave. In my experience good things are worth waiting for, however I’m a slow learner, so please hurry up and get it published 😉