Etter1 wrote: I realize what the man has been through, but I just watched him kill a bull with an ear tag in a 400 acre fence. I never thought I would see that from him.

I have always loved this program and wrote him a letter when he became paralyzed. I have never walked in those shoes, so I really can’t say where I would be in his place, but this wasn’t hunting. It was killing a cow in a pen.

With all do respect to his injury, I never cared for his style.

I agree with Roger

I never cared for his hunting style much, especially hail mary 40 yard shots at moving Elk! But I admired his constant championing of access to public land for people like us, out West on National Forest Land landlocked by surrounding private property, and in NY, where he showed that landlocked beaches are public places accessible by boat. I really liked that!

I honestly have never heard of Mr. Barta until now. I still do not know anything about him other than the fact that he had a TV show. I am more gearing this towards the “high-fence” issue. I posted a thread about preserve-hunting a while back. I was truly interested to know people’s opinions. I was sure no one would champion the taking of animals that way, but I was looking at a “bigger/broader picture” to see if there were situations where preserves might actually be beneficial.

What I am getting at is that this is another case where I would not fault a person for using a preserve. Not having the use of ½ of your body is taxing; physically, mentally and spiritually. A hunt that is “accessible” to such a person may be a form of therapy that no drug or doctor could offer. To me, it would not be hunting, but harvesting (never understood that word being used for game) or simply slaughtering, but for someone who cannot wheel through mud, muck, snow and steep cliffs, it might be [literally] a life-saver.

Again, this is just IMHO. I am not claiming to be an authority, not am I advocating preserves, just “philosophizing” a bit. Just FYI, the other reasons I thought preserves were ok was that 1) there are species some cannot afford to pay >$25k to hunt in their natural habitat, and 2) as the prices drop and the antlers [on the preserves] grow, I think it will keep a few “slobs” out of the woods. Again, this is all IMHO, just food for thought. Hope it isn’t taken as offensive in any way. Be well.

Alex

😕

I do like some of his shows as he still uses wood arrows, longbows etc, but he lost me when they tree-ed the Black Bear and he came in and shot it out of the tree! He has been thru a lot thats for sure and I give him cudos for still trying to do it the Barta way but that was too much for me!But I do remember one show before he was hit with his paralysis, when he took a rather dubious shot at an Elk w a stone point arrow, he never recovered that animal!

Well I never looked at it in the light that it would help Barta out mentally. I watched some of his shows and he did take some bad shots. However, the bear show I watched he shot that bear from his wheelchair. I don’t agree with canned hunts or baiting, but I have hunted grouse, woodcock, and rabbits with dogs and would do it for lions. But again done properly, I have no problem with bears either, even though I have no interest in hunting them. I guess for me I don’t agree with the fenced hunt if you are able bodied but if your a confined to a wheelchair I will give a bit of latitude. IMHO

I stand behind Ted and what he did. With his disabilities, what was really wrong with him killing that bull? Would you feel the same if a kid had killed it? What Ted has been through, and what he is now going through shows what kind of man he really is.

He almost lost his hunting show, his way of life. He has faced challenges that none of us has ever faced, and yet he continues to do what he loves the most, and that is hunting. Right now, he is showing that people all all disabilities can hunt, and he is promoting handcapped hunters to hunt again.

I feel that this is something that each person must decide for their self.

I know that there are really great programs happening with our wounded and disabled Armed Forces Veterans, where they are taken into the field so that they can enjoy hunting. It’s a great thing to see the sense of joy, and pride that these men and women have when they can learn to do the things that they once were able to do with family and friends.

Maybe we should give it a rest…

It’s funny to me that so many people look down upon Tred for taking shots at running game from 40 yards, and yet Fred Bear is always highly regarded, and wrote in his field notes that it wasn’t uncommon for him to take (and miss) shots at running game at twice the distance! I highly respect both men, myself. I know for a fact that you will miss 100% of the shots that you don’t take! As for the “canned” hunt, I just hope that I find the motivation to get out & enjoy hunting (in any fashion) if I’m ever unfortunate enough to be confined to a wheelchair. I don’t think he would EVER have hunted that way before, but I can’t blame him for doing so now. My humble opinion.

fattony77 wrote: It’s funny to me that so many people look down upon Tred for taking shots at running game from 40 yards, and yet Fred Bear is always highly regarded, and wrote in his field notes that it wasn’t uncommon for him to take (and miss) shots at running game at twice the distance! I highly respect both men, myself. I know for a fact that you will miss 100% of the shots that you don’t take! As for the “canned” hunt, I just hope that I find the motivation to get out & enjoy hunting (in any fashion) if I’m ever unfortunate enough to be confined to a wheelchair. I don’t think he would EVER have hunted that way before, but I can’t blame him for doing so now. My humble opinion.

I don’t buy the “Fred did it” argument regarding long shots. Those were different times.

As near as I can tell, the only thing different between the times of Pope & Young & Bear, etc. is the definition of an “ethical” shot. The weapons we use are just as deadly (if not more so) than they were back then. Maybe in those days it was more about personal abilities & choices than what was socially acceptable. I doubt if the prey care whether they were killed from 40 or 80 yards away.

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

fattony77 wrote: As near as I can tell, the only thing different between the times of Pope & Young & Bear, etc. is the definition of an “ethical” shot. The weapons we use are just as deadly (if not more so) than they were back then. Maybe in those days it was more about personal abilities & choices than what was socially acceptable. I doubt if the prey care whether they were killed from 40 or 80 yards away.

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

It’s about the impact of marginal shots at game animals. Our personal ethics are under scrutiny every time we hit the woods. How we approach our sport is waaaay more visible than it was “back then”.

Further, I think as a group, our ethical standards have gone up. A lost game animal isn’t the “no big deal” that it was 60 years ago. I don’t hunt behind a fence, and I don’t take marginal shots just to feed my ego.

I have not walked in the mans shoes, so I will reserve my thoughts about him and his way of hunting.

I will say, I respect those that walk quietly without the big stick. Their character I hold in high regard.

The problem I have with Barta over this is how often he was over the top about doing things the hard way no matter what. I know it is easy to throw that out the window when he became paralyzed but I think that is when you have to try harder to practice what you preach. I never cared for his in your face style but that was who he was so I got a chuckle out of that.

Again at the risk of offending: When I taught ethics at the Naval Academy–I stressed these are guides to how you live your life. Best I could say-don’t worry about the other persons choices–follow your thoughts–accomplish the mission and take care of your troops. All else is a soap opera. You will find that with age and wisdom that other behaviors are worthy of your contemplation–but not your time.:cry:

Semper Fi

Mike

colmike wrote: Again at the risk of offending: When I taught ethics at the Naval Academy–I stressed these are guides to how you live your life. Best I could say-don’t worry about the other persons choices–follow your thoughts–accomplish the mission and take care of your troops. All else is a soap opera. You will find that with age and wisdom that other behaviors are worthy of your contemplation–but not your time.:cry:

Semper Fi

Mike

I agree Sir, but would add…in a hobby niche’ such as traditional archery, bowhunting, it is helpful to the “cause” to voice ones ethics and critique our comrades ethics if they raise an eyebrow. It very well may be, that the NON-hunting (read that as votes we can sway to our side)views the Tred Bartas of the world as an example of our ethical base as a whole.

Being on the disabled list, I feel that hunting high fence is fine as long as the the ranch has thousands of acres and not a few pens. I am thinking of a Bison hunt that I may hunt that is on thousNds of acres, but easy to get around on.

I thank God every day that I.can still walk, although not very far. I am also thankful I can still draw my bow.

This is just my personal opinion and it only matters to me.

Rupe

Roger,

I agree with you. I can definitely see the point the good Sir is making, but in every hunter safety course I teach, we point out in the very beginning the 10% of the population that are hunters, 10% that are anti-hunters, and the 80% that will make or break hunting. That 80% needs to know who we are and how we feel because the media will have no trouble lumping up in with the slobs and poachers. We need to get more “good press” out there and advocate what we think is right (and distance ourselves from what we feel is wrong). PA has a “turn in a poacher” hotline. Other states, I’m sure, have something similar. There are many groups out there that advocate ethics in hunting. Simply put, we cannot be silent.

Again, I know nothing about Mr. Barta, so it is not fair for me to single him out. Also, I am on the fence (pun intended) about hunting preserves as I just don’t like saying “no” as a blanket statement about [almost] anything. Again: IMHO!

Be well.

Alex

😕

I agree with Roger and since I have no problem offending. I disagree with don’t worry about others after all that type of situational ethics allowed the Hedge Fund manager to argue it was okay for him to ruin the country financially under that umbrella. Also as my dad used to say live your life by the example you want others around you to be.

I don’t really have any knowledge of Mr. Barta, nor have I ever watched a hunting show. This thread seems, at least partially concerned with public perception and possible resulting legislation. I do have some experience with influencing public opinion and way too much experience dealing with politicians. Both take an enormous amount of effort and predicting the out come of that effort is nearly impossible. In my mind, it is far better to support and participate in organizations that share your goals. If putting a picture of Mr. Barta on your favorite straw bale will help you shoot better, then go for it. I’ll be following DP’s advise and re-reading what Col. Mike had to say on this.

Thanks,

Gary

Folks please drop all the “sirs” when responding to my posts. I am retired and have attained the nickname here as Col.Mike–or call sign Husky 6 but if I am not buying you a drink at the bar-sir is not required:Dd

Ethics–what a great discussion–and you are all right. Ethics are a personal choice–the only person you have to justify that choice too is that image in the mirror.

IMHO–we do more good for our stance on hunting by promoting it then we will ever do by singling out an individuals choice. As my father used to say–small minds talk about people-medium minds talk about things and possessions–great minds discuss concepts. As we are all a mix of that I think we should gravitate toward the medium to great thoughts. Semper Fi Mike

It’s a personal choice. If I was in a wheelchair and hunting animal X was on my bucket list and I had the opportunity to go for it I probably would.

I also agree with Rupe’s view that there are large preserves and then there are high fence shooting galleries. If a disability prevented me from hiking and backpacking over rough terrain should I just throw in the towel and give up? Of course not, there are viable options available to make possible an otherwise unattainable experience. I say go for it and don’t worry about what others think.

I just recently saw the episode in question and noticed 2 things, first, Mr. Barta made a comment stating that he felt that he was mistaken in his previous stand on the subject and is now convinced that it was not the “slam dunk,” easy shooting that he previously thought, and second, he still only blatantly advocated the practice for those with disabilities, in an effort to empower them and let them know that their disabilities should not prevent them from getting out there & giving it a shot. For that, I commend him. Food for thought.

I would like to hear from fellow disabled members on this topic. I think it would be very interesting to get thier honest opinion on fenced hunts. IMHO I think they would agree with my earlier post. I agree that 400 acres is not a large enough area to call it hunting. but a few thousand made up of timber small meadow etc. would be hunting as long as the animals have not been hand fed and brought up in a small corral until they are old enough to fend for themaelves. They should be raised by the mother with the herd and the only human contact should be hunters and ranch hands checking on the herd from a distance. I really don’t believe that could happen in a 400 acre area. On several thousand acre yes I do.believe it can.

Lets hear from others that are disabled?

Very good discussion guys!

Rupe

Was it something I said?

This thread came to a quick stop after my last post. I hope I didn’t kill it? 🙁

Rupe

Rupe — It’s likely a combo of three things:

1. Little or no support here for canned killing under and circumstances.

2. No disabled canned killers available to respond to you.

3. Thread topics tend to run their course and end. Someone always has to be the final poster.

Yes I know, I was j:Dust joking around.:D

My Dad had a stroke at 42 and couldn’t move his left arm or leg. Anyone who can find anything to keep them sane and produtive under those conditions has my respect.

Chuck

Snuffer wrote: My Dad had a stroke at 42 and couldn’t move his left arm or leg. Anyone who can find anything to keep them sane and produtive under those conditions has my respect.

Chuck

Sorry to here about your dad Chuck, and your right in my book!

Rupe