M — your experience here makes a good comment to the “appropriate discussion” thread on this forum also. It seems that some folks approach the heavy arrow/EFoC discussion as an either/or choice: either heavy arrows/ EFoC, or perfect flight and arrow placement on target. But in my experience the two used together have a strong synergy so that you get everything in one package. No either/or involved. Next month I’m heading east to hunt whitetails in W. VA, which I’m assuming (knowing nothing about it, really) will be small. And in Dec. I head down to AZ to hunt the tiny Coues whitetail. In both instances I will be shooting my elk arrows — single-bevel heads, 680 grain total arrow weight with 26% FoC. Not because I feel I need that much penetration power on small deer, but because this setup shoots so darn beautifully from both my 53# and 55# Shrew longbows. There is no either/or choice involved. It’s totally win/win in my experience. Odd about your off-angled arrow. Maybe got turned by a rib going out, or by a glance against a tree after pass-through? dave p

M — congrats on your second deer! And indeed, as the Doc keeps encouraging us, small samples DO count for a lot when we all contribute them, as you have here, so that Ashby can add them to his stats. Filling out his report forms are particularly helpful (find them via the Ashby library). I’m just back from WV and was shocked at how open the hardwood forests are after leaf drop. But it sure was nice being able to hear deer coming from a distance — a totally new experience for me. Squirrels were a real problem and next time I hunt there I’ll carry a slingshot. I could have killed a fat doe at 8 yards but didn’t even see a good buck. I had only 2 days to hunt and am positive I could have scored a decent buck — my host was seeing them — if I’d had a bit more time. Cheers, dave

Congratulations on your second deer. I hope to get my first with trad gear this year. Our second season opens November 29th. EFOC is the way to go. I promise to fill out on of Doc’s forms when I get a deer.

After non-recovery of my first hit on a buck with the trad bow,(a little high in the kill zone) I’ve had to rethink my entire arrow setup. I’ve read much of the Doc’s studies and am convinced that low FOC(12.30%) was the major factor in not recovering my buck. Had I read the Doc’s studies before… I beleive my experience would be different. I’m shooting 50# with a 29″ draw and 31″ arrow and a 150 gr Woodsman. I’ll experiment by adding a 50 or 100 gr insert.Total arrow weight will be 535 gr or 585 gr. My calculations (estimated) show I should get close to or exceed 20% FOC. I know that arrow flight is really important and from what I read this should not be too much of an issue with a 5″ flecthing Any suggestions??? Learning everyday and appreciate any help.

ralphs wrote: After non-recovery of my first hit on a buck with the trad bow,(a little high in the kill zone) I’ve had to rethink my entire arrow setup. I’ve read much of the Doc’s studies and am convinced that low FOC(12.30%) was the major factor in not recovering my buck. Had I read the Doc’s studies before… I beleive my experience would be different. I’m shooting 50# with a 29″ draw and 31″ arrow and a 150 gr Woodsman. I’ll experiment by adding a 50 or 100 gr insert.Total arrow weight will be 535 gr or 585 gr. My calculations (estimated) show I should get close to or exceed 20% FOC. I know that arrow flight is really important and from what I read this should not be too much of an issue with a 5″ flecthing Any suggestions??? Learning everyday and appreciate any help.

Have Tom-Wisconsin share his set-up with you. Can’t do much better than what Tom is presently using. He has posted it several times. How about one more time on this thread Tom?

Ireland

ralphs wrote: After non-recovery of my first hit on a buck with the trad bow,(a little high in the kill zone) I’ve had to rethink my entire arrow setup. I’ve read much of the Doc’s studies and am convinced that low FOC(12.30%) was the major factor in not recovering my buck. Had I read the Doc’s studies before… I beleive my experience would be different. I’m shooting 50# with a 29″ draw and 31″ arrow and a 150 gr Woodsman. I’ll experiment by adding a 50 or 100 gr insert.Total arrow weight will be 535 gr or 585 gr. My calculations (estimated) show I should get close to or exceed 20% FOC. I know that arrow flight is really important and from what I read this should not be too much of an issue with a 5″ flecthing Any suggestions??? Learning everyday and appreciate any help.

My first suggestion would be to bareshaft tune your setup. If you take a well tuned arrow and add 50-100 grains up front, you no longer have a well tuned arrow. Fletching should do two things: overpower the steering tendency of the broadhead and compensate for minor inconsistencies in shooting. It should never be used cover up incorrectly tuned hunting arrows.

I wouldn’t consider your current FOC low. The standard rule of thumb for decades has been 10-15% for hunting arrows. It’s worked fine for generations, and biologically speaking, the animals we hunt haven’t changed. My own hunting arrows are around 13% (plus or minus a fraction) and I’ve had no problem getting pass throughs on everything from midwestern whitetails to bull moose.

But in the end, confidence is key. When you’re getting ready to drop the string on an animal, doubting your setup is a bad thing. If a different arrow configuration (being well tuned, of course) is going to alleviate doubts about your equipment afield, it’s a worthwhile endeavor.

ralphs wrote: After non-recovery of my first hit on a buck with the trad bow,(a little high in the kill zone) I’ve had to rethink my entire arrow setup. I’ve read much of the Doc’s studies and am convinced that low FOC(12.30%) was the major factor in not recovering my buck. Had I read the Doc’s studies before… I beleive my experience would be different. I’m shooting 50# with a 29″ draw and 31″ arrow and a 150 gr Woodsman. I’ll experiment by adding a 50 or 100 gr insert.Total arrow weight will be 535 gr or 585 gr. My calculations (estimated) show I should get close to or exceed 20% FOC. I know that arrow flight is really important and from what I read this should not be too much of an issue with a 5″ flecthing Any suggestions??? Learning everyday and appreciate any help.

Ralphs,
Nothing against wanting to change you’re set-up, but I would tend to agree with Jason on re-tuning. I would think that just throwing an extra 100 grains on the front of your current shafts is going to cause them to be to weak in spine.

I have bare shaft tuned my arrows before going for EFOC with the following specs.

Carbon Express Predator II 2040 arrows
Spine 0.600
29 5/8 cut to cut
30 ‘ BOP
7.7 gpi
145 gr field pt. (flies a tad weak spine bare shaft which is good when fletching is added.)

Then I had fun going for EFOC using the same recurve. These are the current arrow specs. Again bareshaft tuning.

GT expeditions hunters 3555
Spine 0.500
Straightness 0.600 +/-
30” cut to cut
30.75 inches BOP
7.4 gpi
222 grains
9 gr nock
6.9 gr fletching
100 gr brass inserts
125 gr steel adaptor
175 gr Abowyer Brown Bear single bevel
2 brass washer 5 gr each total 10 gr
Balance pt 24.75 “
FOC 30.48%
645-650 gr total wt

Now the Carbon Express arrows seem like tooth picks compared to the powerful GT arrows. I am pulling about 43#s with my draw length.