Dave

The first link doesn’t load. As to the second–anyone who thinks the NRA is protecting the values we hold dear–is not thinking clearly. The NRA’s sole function is to support the gun production industry. That industry has only one viable market–the USA. In most informed nations the ownership and ability to purchase guns is closely regulated. But then they don’t have school children killed by 2nd amendment rights.

Is it a surprise that the single most danger to the environment and wild that we love is the oil and gas industry–no leap in logic here that they support the insanity of the NRA.

Suckers you bet–but it ain’t to late. Cancel your membership and join those that support our dreams. And tell your elected representatives so.

Semper Fi

Mike

PS. welcome back my friend:D

Sadly I’ve seen the movement in that direction for some time with the NRA. And as far as SCI goes it has always been a rich man’s organization and rich men can afford pay-to-play hunting. If the denial of opportunities to the rest of us means more money in their pockets, so much the better. And the wildlife can just get out of the way.:cry:

I’ll take a look at the links a bit later, but can’t wait that long to post my two cents. I stopped supporting the NRA with my pittance long ago. For one they are extremists. For two, they are politically aligned with the same folks that fight environmental conservation and are pro-development. It seems that following that route would allow you as many guns as you like, but would have no place to use them.

Thanks, dwc

You sure know how to get a guys blood pressure up there Mr. Peterson. Thanks for posting the links I knew they were bad just not how bad.:evil:

If anyone else is having trouble viewing the pdf I have hosted it here (so I can read it at work tomorrow):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_N7B2Rx9-45LUFRNWtuaUxLVWM/edit?usp=sharing

This doesn’t seem to get my “blood boiling” all that much. I guess it’s old and sad news to me.

In fact, if you pay attention to the way things work in this country, what would be surprising is if this wasn’t the case.

The strands that tie the new robber barons to the government are not hard to see. It is a complex and strong web that keeps people in this country working so hard they can’t stop to ask why or look around and see what’s happening to their world.

dumb down education (what are we now, about 70th in the world for math and literacy?), reduce pay (buying power of peoples salaries less than it was in the ’60’s), eliminate free time (average american takes less than 4 days off a year) and what have you got?

If I say more, this thread may get bumped by higher authorities… 😯

😯 I’m sure we agree on many of these points, but it’s drifting away from the NRA and hunting related topic. Let’s not get into politics, government or religion and you’ll keep this Mom happy.

Thanks!

While it’s frustrating and unfortunate, I don’t think that any of this should be surprising to anyone who has paid attention to the path that the NRA has taken over the last several decades. The NRA exists solely to lobby in favor of firearm ownership – they are not a conservation, or “hunting values” organization at all, despite many people expecting that they should be. Which shouldn’t be taken as a defense of the NRA by any means (I walked away a long time ago for the reasons cited by others above).

I think it’s important for a larger audience to understand the ways in which the NRA has, for a long time, actually worked against the interests of hunters at the same time that it has worked to protect 2nd Amendment rights. But that audience largely lies beyond those of us on this forum.

As always Robin keeps us inline but on this occasion the subject is politics, government, business and a few people making a lot of money.

Who should be responsible for managing the above, non of the above.

I probably should not comment on US domestic issues this is a matter for you folks but its the same the world over.

Mark.

While I disagreed with the NRA on this particular bill I do not consider them to a bunch of nut jobs. No one has done more to protect our 2nd Amendment rights than them. It sure as heck wasn’t a bunch of politicians and judges. The NRA only went extreme if you will when the government(s) went that way.

Washington DC, Chicago and many cities have (had) very restrictive gun laws and they did nothing to curb the crime. The only people affected were honest citizens.

As with any information be careful of who gives it to you. GunTruthproject.org is a very anti-gun organization that is financed by Mayor Bloomberg who feels that no one has a right to own a gun, except the police, military and his bodyguards. 99.9% of all gun owners are honest law abiding people, the concentration needs to be on the criminals. I might add that the Aurora shooter, the Army major who shot up Fort Hood and the guy who shot Gabby Giffords, as well as many others, were all on someone’s radar already, but no one acted.

The Center for American Progress is a very anti-gun organization and very left-leaning in all of their ideas. This organization also refuses to release information on who contributes money to them, although it is known that George Soros gave them millions. I can’t find anything concrete on them as to hunting, but these type of organizations tend to be anti-hunting, at least on some level. A similar organization in the UK all but outlawed hunting in that country.

For what it’s worth, here’s my $0.02:

I don’t believe this is any more or less a piece (2 in this case) of propaganda than anything that the NRA or SCI puts out. There is no such thing as a “good” cause anymore. May causes start off that way (just about anything you can think of) but then, once they get a taste of some power or get corrupted by other organizations, they turn into a monstrosity that spirals out of control. I don’t care if it’s the NRA or Unions, the story doesn’t change.

Reading these articles, I noticed the same rhetoric that I see in just about any NRA or SCI ad, “they are all against you”. It works. Actually, it works well. Divide and conquer. I can pretty much guarantee that the propaganda from the NRA, SCI, et al will be just as neatly presented and convincing with pretty pictures and arrows showing a whole bunch of nothing. We really need to consider the source, no matter if we agree or not.

As for me, I will work my land (if I ever manage to afford to buy some), I will hunt my land and I will protect my land. Beyond that, not much will change. Pretty much every good idea will turn into a bad one and life will go on. People will be divided and only the agendas of the few in power will ever have any serious chance of coming to fruition.

Well, there it is, my $0.02 worth.

Be well,

Alex

😕

Like Critch, when I read something so obviously slanted as this, I immediately consider the source.

Agreed. We should probably steer clear of the “gun control” issue, since that is a whole other can of worms, and this isn’t a gun forum. But it doesn’t take much digging to see that the “Center for American Progress” isn’t exactly ambivalent on that front, either.

And while I believe strongly in 2nd Amendment rights, I do think that there is a valid point to be made regarding many of the candidates that the NRA supports, who are not the least bit helpful, if not downright harmful, when it comes to the hunting public’s vested interest in habitat conservation and wildlife mgmt.

First they push the crossbows and now this .I’m not at all surprised and couldn’t agree more with Steve!When 400 families have as much concentrated wealth as half the population of the United States our democracy is in serious trouble.

Amen brothers, I quit the NRA years ago when they built that glass massolium in DC and started buying those low life vulture political hacks that uninformed idiots keep sending back to Washington.

I love this band of brothers on this site. Last of a breed.

Best to each and every one of you. Thanks Dave for the links. Glad to see you keeping an eye the bastards.

God Bless

David Petersen wrote: These links will make some of us angry, and they should! But we shouldn’t be angry at the reporters and writers who are doing their jobs. We should be angry at the “sportsmen’s” groups, politicians and others who have suckered us all these years. And angry at ourselves for being suckers.

http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IndustryInfluenceReport.pdf

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/nra-wilderness-clayton-williams-energy-oil?google_editors_picks=true

As a long time supporter of our wildlife and hunting and fishing, I was dismayed by this report, but not shocked. I was upset at my colleagues but not angry at their comments. I have heard all the trash talk about my politics. Nothing you can do or say will make me deviate from the path i have chosen to protect wildlife and people from themselves mostly.

I give you a typical conundrum i face almost daily: I love trad bowhunting, but i also love my guns. I do not have a huge collection but i have a few. I teach in an inner city school and i see kids dying from gun fire on a regular basis. Do i want to see my guns taken? NO. How do we prevent kids dying in our schools, or outside of them, because they want to prove their manhood or some other insane reason with a pistol or shotgun? In the many years i have been an NRA member, they never stretched to create a program of gun safety for schools, or come up with a reasonable response to this problem. Their unwavering commitment to 2nd Amendment Rights and their support of conservative wags who denounce Obama as un-American, or as a socialist, or some other inane comment never ceases to amaze me. After eight years of two wars, an imploding economy, the bank crisis, the wall street bailout, and other travesties of America, the NRA would reach out to another Bush in a heartbeat.

Right now, we have a slowly growing economy (the best kind) and at least former lip service to protecting the environment. Does it really surprise you that the SCI and NRA are supporting big gas and oil and have a weak, at best, enthusiasm for wild place, wildlife and the great outdoors? As long as Africa remains a feudal serfdom of the US and big money sportsmen can continue to shoot whatever they pay for, is Africa really safe? SCI will say yes, and bludgeon you with rich folks who demand their sport the way they want it. The NRA will have you shooting in concrete bunkers before they give up their “rights” and if we as Sarah Palin so aptly put it, “Mr. Caribou, it is time you took one for the team.” , keep supporting these anti-wildlife wild spaces whack cases for public office what will you expect?

The case of Donald Sterling is so apropos here. He has an African-American/Mexican girlfriend, who proves he is a racist, while bilking him for millions. He owns an NBA team of almost 78% black players, but doesn’t want blacks in his apt. buildings or at his games. He was given one Lifetime Achievement Award by the NAACP and was due to receive another, but they had to cancel because of his inane, racist statements, but he paid enough money to get one and be in line for another. Sound familiar?

There are tons of gun owners in the US who are not members of the NRA. They don’t want to join because of the conservative, ultra right wing politics the NRA supports with millions of dollars and whack politicians who support them because of their right wing stances on most things outside of guns. Their support of gas and oil expiration is just a tip of the iceberg. As i said previously, if another Bush would be running they would be there in congress with their clout and their money. Outdoorsmen, stop the stupidity. Cut your ties with these groups who do not recognize conservation but only conservatism.

So I got a little bit into the American Progress report. Some of the facts presented were not presented quite fairly. For instance the bottom of page 3 has this:

The contributions are so significant that oil and gas companies now represent as much as 28.5 percent of the NRA’s corporate giving program.

But if you follow the reference to that figure you’ll find their referenced data shows those contributions to be between 2.5% and 28.5% (with no way of knowing what in that range is more likely to be true). They mentioned the big number and ignored the small.

The key is this kind of line from the NRA:

The NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, makes clear that, according to the group’s website: “It is involved in any issue that directly or indirectly affects firearms ownership and use. These involve such topics as hunting and access to hunting lands, wilderness and wildlife conservation.”

You can bet that means roads and reduction of ecological protection. Roads equals easy access, easy access equals more people buying guns to take advantage of easy access. The removal of ecological protections obviously advantages both industries. Put more roads and less protections together and you can’t help but see two natural industry allies.

I’m wildly jealous of some American freedoms, weapons included. But as an outsider looking in, I am not jealous of an organisation like the NRA.