All I care about as far as broadheads are concerned, is whether or not they are spinning true. As long as they are spinning true, I haven’t found any one orientation better than the other.

The spinning true comment is very true but added to that I am used to shooting my arrows with the broadhead vertical, I dunno… I am just used to aiming with it being aligned like that.

I guess it doesn’t really matter, as with alot of things in the archery world, as long as you’re used to it and can shoot accurately it doesn’t matter how you’re doing 🙂

Welcome aboard NZLongbowman. I agree, even though my favored orientation is horizontal. It’s a visual thing, and with the head vertical my eye seem to go to it more, distracting my concentration. At my anchor at least, horzontal flat heads don’t stand out so much. I do this with woods, easy, but don’t bother with screw-in and let them go where they may. Just like my shots. 😛 Dave

G’day Dave!

Thanks for the welcoming!

Yeah totally, it is simply a whatever you’re comfortable with subject really! Always interesting to hear other peoples reason for either vertical, horizontal or inbetween!

A bit off topic here and sorry for high jacking the thread! I just want to give a thanks to you Dave as your words regarding shrew bows (I’ve been lurking here for a while) as they’ve helped me make a decision in putting an order through for a little favourite recurve. I was a little disappointed with the 1.5 year wait until he would get around to making it, but I am not without a bow until then so it doesn’t bother me all that much! Over here in New Zealand there is a lot of great wilderness and hunting but there is only but a handful (if that) of traditional bow hunters here and thus the market for longbows/recurves is non-existent. It is largely dominated by 1000’s of riflemen and I would say around 100-150 arrow shooters (crossbows & compounds) so if I want a traditional bow I have to order from the US which is a little daunting as warranty and damaged bows through shipping is a little scary!

NZL — when dealing with Shrew, you are dealing with just two people:Ron the owner, and Gregg the bowyer. So the term “warranty” is a bit out of place. Like most of today’s best “ma and pa” bowmakers, taking care of their customers is a matter of personal honor, not contracted obligation. Ask them to package it extra solid for shipment, as that’s a real concern. But if anything ever goes wrong, you can trust it will be fixed and pronto. But that chance is minimal. Our applause for your courage and individuality in marching with the traditional banner over there, all but alone. It must feel something like when I was a kid in Oklahoma and bowhunters were as rare as fur on a fish. Frankly, I kinda liked it that way. No crowded woods. I just had a visit from a NZ couple, delightful folks. Dave

I was told, as a kid, that they should be verticle so that a corrrect arrow length would nestle the notch (like on a magnus) against your finger. I never liked having a razor that close, so never had them that short, but have always put them on vertically. Daves comment about less effect on the eyes if horizontal though has piqued my curriosity. I think I will give it a try now

I like to keep them horizontal for 2 reasons…

1. Like Dave, I find it more visually appealing (and conducive to better shooting) in my site picture.
2. This point may be total crap… But I think that in the initial corrections the arrow undergoes from paradox, a horizontal blade will wind plane less.

Mr Graf –
My interest is in what happens with –“the flight of the arrow”{Physics} and my impression from reading your posts is, you have studied it. If you use helical fletch, the arrow should spiral in flight?
I see the head subconsciously no matter its orientation [ old training]
I was first told, 1969 — vertical to get thru ribs — straight fletch? [ thus no spiral ?]-I did not flech my own arrows[then] and do not recall the standard.
If it spins[helical] and apparently it does- . How does that impact this thread?
respectfully submitted
Scout

Mr Duncan —
I am afraid I have not worried about the BH orientation that much myself thru the years, it did not seem to matter to my personal shooting. However I may not be as accurate as others, that is why I was interested in other trad bow archers opinions. “Vertical to get thru ribs” was an old “argument” – “speculation ” I remember hearing. I never gave it much creedance. I also remember fubars remark about using the BH [Vertical] to index upon ones finger — “Draw check” so to speak. I always personally stress alignment on my own arrows.
Scout

cyberscout wrote: Mr Graf –
My interest is in what happens with –“the flight of the arrow”{Physics} and my impression from reading your posts is, you have studied it. If you use helical fletch, the arrow should spiral in flight?
I see the head subconsciously no matter its orientation [ old training]
I was first told, 1969 — vertical to get thru ribs — straight fletch? [ thus no spiral ?]-I did not flech my own arrows[then] and do not recall the standard.
If it spins[helical] and apparently it does- . How does that impact this thread?
respectfully submitted
Scout

Once the arrow starts to spin, initial orientation is irrelevant, as your intuition has told you.

But while the arrow is on the bow, and for the first few inches after it has left the string, the arrow has not yet started to spin.

It is during this short time, while the arrow is not spinning, but is flexing left and right, that the broadhead could act as a rudder.

For me, I seem to get better grouping with the broadhead horizontal. It seems to be more forgiving of my release. A crappy release gives more arrow flexing. Which could lead to more rudder control by the broadhead…

But like I said before, this may just be crap. I have no evidence to support the idea other than my personal experience… And as my kids will happily tell you, my experience doesn’t count for crap 😳

I have always tried to align my BHs verticaly. I find that horizontal blocks a part of the site picture . But as long as they are razor sharp and put in the right spot it wont make much difference.
I had wondered if there was a strong trad scene in NZ , its on my list of places to go hunting for sure. Welcome to the site

Ah -Yes, BH initial orientation at launch, definitely could have some effect. Has anyone done any tests out of a Bow Machine Rest [ I believe they exist?] and ultra slow mo photography. It would be interesting to see how different style arrows performed. Of course that would take away some of the ART!? Maybe best to just wonder, and shoot the way one likes –haha
Scout.

cyberscout wrote: Mr Graf –
I was first told, 1969 — vertical to get thru ribs — straight fletch? [ thus no spiral ?]

Scout, even with straight fletch the arrow rotates in flight, because of the pressure differential on the fletching.

During the Study’s testing I was often changing broadheads, and broadhead blade orientation was often at all sorts of angles. I find no practical differences in the orientation of the broadhead, as far as shooting or accuracy are concerned.

In theory there should be a difference in arrow flex during the initial phase of paradox (first bend and rebound around the riser) because of air pressure difference on the broadhead’s blade, with the vertical mounted head having more air resistance. However, the increased pressure works in opposing directions during the flex and the rebound. It’s very likely that these forces come very close to offsetting each other.

As a matter of preference, on my serious hunting arrows I mount the broadheads with the blades vertical.

Ed

Doc —
Thanks – I figured there might be a study or 2 that had looked at this. I should have checked yours. I “felt” or maybe remembered it in the foggy recesses of my mind,something to the effect “offsetting Each other”. Always good to have you around – { faster and more accurate than wikipedia – haha }Intriguing about the straight flech.
Scout

Mr Duncan –
Accuracy is enabled by Consistency. It would seem, if one is consistent in the formation of the arrow and how they shoot it from their bow, as you do – your ability to hit is greatly enhanced IMHO –I also make sure the fletch doesn’t touch in my Bow Quiver [ hopefully cut down on inadvertant noise ]
Scout

Ps – aesthetically I prefer the BH Vertical- in line with the bow. –

Howard said … VERTICAL!

Ed

Humm … not much centershot on that bow, is there.

cyberscout wrote: Ah -Yes, BH initial orientation at launch, definitely could have some effect. Has anyone done any tests out of a Bow Machine Rest [ I believe they exist?] and ultra slow mo photography. It would be interesting to see how different style arrows performed. Of course that would take away some of the ART!? Maybe best to just wonder, and shoot the way one likes –haha
Scout.

I’ve never done any testing with a machine, but I do test, tune, and practice with my broadheads every year at ranges from 10 to 60+ yards (not that I shoot animals that far, or even close to it). So long as your arrows are set up and tuned properly, broadhead orientation should have no effect on arrow flight. At no range that I practice do I see any drifting off the line or horizontal stringing.

For what it’s worth, I align my broadheads vertically. It’s just a visual thing for me when I shoot.

I am Glad I said I like Vertical!{ whoo that was lucky} Not too many of us will ever shoot as well as Mr Hill! – haha – but then Byron Fergusons book [ shows him shooting a horizontal BH] and he shoots pretty good too — oops– but later in his book he talks about mounting the BH vertical so it can act as a Clicker!? See first sentence —
Starting to look Like Ford vs Chevrolet — haha
Scout

Ive always used Horizontal no idea why.

The original reason they were alligned vertically was on trad bows the broadhead was drawn ‘until the barbs pricked the finger’ this meant the draw length was consistent and the bow was not marked or scratched by sharp edges sliding against it.

Old habits die hard.

Been shooting horizontal for decades and used to it somewhere in my sight picture or something.

Ive shot both but it’s only the “get it out of the way” thoughts that have me sticking with that.

As in many advantages of arrow flight quoted, it may be accurate that there is a flight effect but doubt Im a good enough shot to tell.

Horizonta to ME, is horizontal when at full draw with a canted bow. Ive some that are 90 degrees to the BOW that worked too but visually speaking, I normally stick em on so they are horizontal at my “normal” bow cant…….if there is such a thing. Bow cant while hunting varies per shot but there remains a natural feeling cant that, if uneffected by “stuff” around me, that just comes naturally.

For me, I think it’s more a confidence builder thinking that the less I alter my sight picture, the more likely I’ll repeat things as close as I am able, shot to shot. Probably more “mental” than anything measurable.

History has shown me that when shooting something while hunting with other than my natural, same ol, same ol canted bow it’s on something CLOSE and FAST and I doubt I’d notice if the head was GONE then.

Good stuff, guys.

GodBless

Steve Sr.