I too live in Oklahoma,and I hate 4 wheelers in the woods.The woods are sacred to some,while desecrated by 4 wheeler tracks by others.

I disagree that lazy motorheads who have no regard for others or the shared resource, have any “right” at all to be on public lands. You need to organize and take it to the state legislature and media before it grows any more. Check out what Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (www.backcountryhunters.org) is doing in other states. The longer the motors are allowed to run wild with no control or organized public outcry, the more damage they will do and the more “tradition of use” they will claim to have. I see ATV and dirt bike abuse and over-use as the number one threat to traditional-access hunting on public lands. Motors deny our access by making it so awful nobody else wants to go there.

I’m not a big fan of ATV’s except for the handicapped or as a tool, but the wolves in western Mt. have done more serious damage to our elk than ATV’s! It’s out of control. The wolves hunt and chase 24/7/365 and some areas may not have enough calf survival to sustain the herd and Judge Malloy is in the anti’s pocket. These wolves are coming soon to your best elk herds and your hands are tied. The officials at least attempt to regulate ATV’s. I took my kids antelope hunting today and watched a pack of 5 chase the antelope and the rancher said even the antelope fawn crop on his place was hammered the first 2 weeks.
Be careful picking your fights!

Stalkinelk — You know the term “nonsequitur?” No argument with your argument here, but it’s not what we were talking about. I am very careful in picking my fights these days–I go after enemies who I’m forced personally to deal with. I don’t think hating the wolves there will do anything to solve the ATV disaster here. Now, if we could just breed a subspecies of wolves that eats ATVs, we’d all be happy. 😛 dp

😆 good one Mr.P!

Best course of action is to support the People that lobby your interests! In this case, just join and support BHA. I live in Arkansas and hunt in Colorado. I am a member of BHA and feel that is the best way to support myself, and those who live there. My way of giving back to a worthy lobby.:)

ATV eating wolves, now there is some genetic manipulation that I would be in favor of!!!

We just had a couple (they were not hunting) who were thrown from their horses when ATVs came screaming around the corner of a trail. She broke 6 ribs and he was rushed in for a possible heart attack. Those ATV folks did not stop (they sated they did not notive), the second part of the group didn’t stop until they ran into the rescue vehicles at the trail head (he had a cell and dialed 911). The second group said they saw the horses and just thought the couple were just resting in the grass. WTF?

If you are using them as a true tool, like in Alaska where they travel 30 miles into a spot where they set up camp and then hunt from there, fine.

Around my parts in NH, it is all recreational first (and going way, way to fast) and there is very little land you can’t get to on foot.

“If you are using them as a true tool, like in Alaska where they travel 30 miles into a spot where they set up camp and then hunt from there, fine.”

And therein lies the problem.

ATV users are fast becoming, in my mind, barely one step above lawyers. You find 4-wheeler tracks behind every closed gate, wilderness area, and private posted property.

My brother-in-law always had to replant winter wheat; because no matter the signs or verbal requests, the 4-wheeler crowd always had to roar through his fields and tear them up.

He finally closed down 2500 acres of good mule deer hunting because of it.

Atvs are a malignancy wherever they are. Years ago I used to argue vehemently with Paul Brunner on another site over an outright ban on ATVs and some of the other tactics he advocated. But, over the years, after witnessing repeated abuse throughout New England I came to realize he was right and told him so. I’ve had too many wonderful outings ruined by idiots on ATVs. Use the quads God gave you!:x (nut)

America has changed its mindset–instant gratification is the driving force behind all the sumpermag, monster quad, supersonic arrow hucking, Gizmos. Once we get over the “whatever it takes attitude” and find value in the journey we will be fighting for traditions!

Nate

Seems the ATV parasites are not just a problem in the lower 48 even up here in B.C they’re everywhere . Statistically they now out sell snow machines , even here where we get 7 months of winter . They can destroy a sub alpine meadow in short order. As far as Wolves go that argument has been going around forever here , with no end in sight lol. personally I’ll take the wolves over these stinky , noisy monsters .

I agree that ATV’s are misused by many, especially on public lands.

However my father and I do use an ATV in limited capacity during our deer hunting endeavors. We hunt on a combination of personal property and leased land. Some of the land in southern Ohio is very rugged. This ATV helps us get from the road to a stop and hike point well before the sun is even starting to come up. We use the ATV as little as possible and stay on established trails with very few exceptions. This ATV has enabled us on more occasions than I can count recover downed animals from areas that were too rugged and far to drag. We drag them to the nearest trail, then pick them up with the ATV.

I should also mention that these “established” trails are mostly old logging roads.

This ATV has also enabled my father who has had severe lower back pain for many years keep hunting in an area that we love. It has also been a blessing with my reoccurring plantar fasciitis (sp?).

Matt — Except for the massive amount of ATV trespassing onto private land, the “ATV blight” we bemoan has to do with public land. There should be no motorized use allowed on public lands off established roads that a full-sized 4×4 can travel. How they are used on private land is a private matter of no concern to me, so long as it’s no my land. But don’t the deer hear you coming on the machine “well before daylight”? Unless OH requires you to check the whole deer (a really stupid antique practice these days), just quarter it and pack out. I’m yet to meet the deer I can’t pack out in one load after boning — but I’d like to! 😛 dave

David Petersen wrote: Unless OH requires you to check the whole deer (a really stupid antique practice these days),

Welcome to New Hampshire, yep, The whole damn animal. I wonder if there is a way to change our local legislation on that issue? (an dno I have never used an ATV to remove a deer).

David Petersen wrote: But don’t the deer hear you coming on the machine “well before daylight”? Unless OH requires you to check the whole deer (a really stupid antique practice these days), just quarter it and pack out. I’m yet to meet the deer I can’t pack out in one load after boning — but I’d like to! 😛 dave

Dave, Yes Ohio does require you to check in the whole deer. Either the day of or the morning after. It is a thing I have always had to deal with. I didn’t realize until recent years that other states were different. I could definitely pack a boned out deer. I would hazard to say that my father could even handle it despite his back issues. Ohio may change that law someday. Ohio is a bit behind in changing their laws regarding deer limits. Until recent years you could only take two deer (buck/doe, doe/doe). They have started expanding the number of does that are allowed to be taken. I believe that last year you could take a total of seven deer. Only one can still be “antlered.” I think the progress is a good step. I can foresee more changes in the future. Hunting the big bucks in southern Ohio are worth it.

In regards to the deer hearing us on the way in. Yes, I don’t see how they couldn’t. In my experience they don’t move if at all. We only bump them if they are right on the trail. When it’s that dark they seem to stay bedded down. I have crept into my stand within sight of bedded down deer (before daylight)as it begins to turn light, some of the latecomers to the lease creep by on their ATV s. The times I have observed this, the deer stay down but alert. I know deer are not like this everywhere, but it works here. I might also add that my father and I keep a good muffler on the ATV, and we are creeping up the trail, not racing up it. I think that makes the world of difference.

I do agree about ATV s on public land. They shouldn’t be permitted except on main access roads (maybe not even then). I think that a lot of hunters do misuse ATV s in those areas. I have seen this myself and do not like it. These are the hunters that give the rest of us a bad name.

David Petersen wrote: But don’t the deer hear you coming on the machine “well before daylight”? 😛 dave

I felt I must reply to your quotation. I don’t know if you thought we were hunting before daylight (I don’t think that is what you meant)

My father and I get in early. We try to be in our stands well before daylight. This gives the area a chance to settle down. We just sit back and relax till legal light. It is a incredible thing to watch the morning come upon the land.

Those “latecomers” I mentioned, we use them as inadvertent deer drivers. They come in late, leave for lunch, come back late in the afternoon, and leave before legal light is gone. My father and I put in a full day in the woods. It has worked to our benefit. He and I consistently take the largest deer out of the area. The others see very little, and shoot nothing but small does and button bucks (which I hate to see).

I have no problem with four wheelers driving the roads, I even use them to my advantage at times. (Their noise, not riding on one) I do have a huge problem with the way most use them in my area. I think they are one of the worst things that has happened to hunting in the last fifteen years. They should be made to stay in their OHV areas and the roads. Nowhere else.:evil:

I had to laugh last year. I was way back in sitting in a tree stand. I was listening to several elk bugle, wondering whether to leave the stand and do it on the ground or stay put. I heard a four-wheeler coming down a ridge(not in a legal to ride area). The elk all shut up. He turned off his bike and proceeded to start blowing his bugle. This went on for about twenty minutes. No answer. Then he gets on the bike and leaves. Ten minutes later all the elk start up again. I thought, “they aren’t stupid, they know that the sound of a motor is a human”. I use an rv sometimes where it is legal and even then only sparingly. My bike is very quiet,not very powerful, and I hate seeing anyone else when I’m on it because I know many people hate them. This year I never even got it out during the hunt and I had a blast. Gary

With regard to hauling out a whole deer to meet state laws. I have hauled numerous deer in Minnesota over a mile with the use of a 2 wheeled cart just balance the deer so the weight is over the axle and a 12 year old can do it. There always seems to be those that argue for the handy cap exception. All the handicapped hunters I know only go out with a partner because getting a deer out is not the only issue they have. The main problem is there is a ever growing share of hunters that do not want to sweat or exercise.

You got it, Fallguy: an increasingly soft-bellied nation, laziness and relentless advertising by the motorhead industry all work together to have made ATVs a “required” part of “modern” hunting in America.

Last Saturday, my friend Dave Sigurslid killed a 4×4 bull elk some 2 miles and a thousand vertical feet above the truck. Working together we had it quartered, boned and bagged in 1.5 hours, having brought everything we’d need for success in our hunting packs. We then spent the rest of daylight packing it out (4 hours), mostly downhill but very convoluted mountain terrain with thick brush, rocky ground and tons of blowdown timber. We did it all in one long go by leapfrogging two loads each. I carried my pack and Dave’s strapped on top plus antlers, and he hauled what we later learned was 91 pounds on a small frame pack. We’d go a quarter-mile or so, drop the packs, walk back up and each sling a game bag, each with a full boned ham, about 40 pounds each, over a shoulder and take it down past the packs, and so on, over and over. You couldn’t even have gotten an ATV anywhere near there. And to walk down and get a horse, even if we had access to one, seems like more work than what we did. I am 64 and skinny with arthritis. Doc Dave is 61 with a surgically fused spine and asthma. We are of course braggishly proud of what we did … and what kind of pride does using an ATV to do all the work bring? Four years ago Alex Bugnon and I hauled out his cow elk in one load, about a mile, with no packs but only game bags, some 70 pounds each, Santa Claus style. It hurt but it worked and it made us stronger in the doing, not weaker. Bottom line IMHO, whether a whole deer or elk parts, if you aren’t prepared to get your meat out from a place by muscle power, you shouldn’t be hunting in that place. dp

NHguy12 wrote: [quote=David Petersen] Unless OH requires you to check the whole deer (a really stupid antique practice these days),

Welcome to New Hampshire, yep, The whole damn animal. I wonder if there is a way to change our local legislation on that issue? (an dno I have never used an ATV to remove a deer).

Add Vermont to that list of slow to change states.(The Whole Animal)
I will add that I too go into a not so slow burn when I have hiked miles in only to have some lazy so an so go blasting by me on one of those damn things. Maybe I’ll change my mind when I grow old but my opinion now is that more needs to be done to restrict the use of these monsters.

Dave,
We refer to this type of work as “joyous fatigue”
Larry

Good to hear from you here, Vermonter1.

And Larry — that’s downright poetical! 😆 dp

David Petersen wrote: You got it, Fallguy: an increasingly soft-bellied nation, laziness and relentless advertising by the motorhead industry all work together to have made ATVs a “required” part of “modern” hunting in America.

Last Saturday, my friend Dave Sigurslid killed a 4×4 bull elk some 2 miles and a thousand vertical feet above the truck. Working together we had it quartered, boned and bagged in 1.5 hours, having brought everything we’d need for success in our hunting packs. We then spent the rest of daylight packing it out (4 hours), mostly downhill but very convoluted mountain terrain with thick brush, rocky ground and tons of blowdown timber. We did it all in one long go by leapfrogging two loads each. I carried my pack and Dave’s strapped on top plus antlers, and he hauled what we later learned was 91 pounds on a small frame pack. We’d go a quarter-mile or so, drop the packs, walk back up and each sling a game bag, each with a full boned ham, about 40 pounds each, over a shoulder and take it down past the packs, and so on, over and over. You couldn’t even have gotten an ATV anywhere near there. And to walk down and get a horse, even if we had access to one, seems like more work than what we did. I am 64 and skinny with arthritis. Doc Dave is 61 with a surgically fused spine and asthma. We are of course braggishly proud of what we did … and what kind of pride does using an ATV to do all the work bring? Four years ago Alex Bugnon and I hauled out his cow elk in one load, about a mile, with no packs but only game bags, some 70 pounds each, Santa Claus style. It hurt but it worked and it made us stronger in the doing, not weaker. Bottom line IMHO, whether a whole deer or elk parts, if you aren’t prepared to get your meat out from a place by muscle power, you shouldn’t be hunting in that place. dp

Dave, I couldn’t agree with you more, if you are not prepared to haul out your meat from the place you are hunting then you probably should not be hunting there.
I’m only 57 but had a botched back operation several years ago. Then in June of 09 I went off a roof at work and got busted up pretty bad. In October of that year I took my deer off the mountain over a mile in the dark trying to find the trail that I knew was there somewhere. I don’t mind telling you it hurt! This year I took my deer out 1 /3 miles in the dark but with a bit of help. It seems like each year I end up trying to get back in further to find the solitude I seek (Vermont is a small state).
The bottom line (for me anyway) seems to be… If there is no element of adventure in the hunt, it’s really not that much worthwile. IMO

vermonter1 wrote: [quote=David Petersen]You got it, Fallguy: an increasingly soft-bellied nation, laziness and relentless advertising by the motorhead industry all work together to have made ATVs a “required” part of “modern” hunting in America.

Last Saturday, my friend Dave Sigurslid killed a 4×4 bull elk some 2 miles and a thousand vertical feet above the truck. Working together we had it quartered, boned and bagged in 1.5 hours, having brought everything we’d need for success in our hunting packs. We then spent the rest of daylight packing it out (4 hours), mostly downhill but very convoluted mountain terrain with thick brush, rocky ground and tons of blowdown timber. We did it all in one long go by leapfrogging two loads each. I carried my pack and Dave’s strapped on top plus antlers, and he hauled what we later learned was 91 pounds on a small frame pack. We’d go a quarter-mile or so, drop the packs, walk back up and each sling a game bag, each with a full boned ham, about 40 pounds each, over a shoulder and take it down past the packs, and so on, over and over. You couldn’t even have gotten an ATV anywhere near there. And to walk down and get a horse, even if we had access to one, seems like more work than what we did. I am 64 and skinny with arthritis. Doc Dave is 61 with a surgically fused spine and asthma. We are of course braggishly proud of what we did … and what kind of pride does using an ATV to do all the work bring? Four years ago Alex Bugnon and I hauled out his cow elk in one load, about a mile, with no packs but only game bags, some 70 pounds each, Santa Claus style. It hurt but it worked and it made us stronger in the doing, not weaker. Bottom line IMHO, whether a whole deer or elk parts, if you aren’t prepared to get your meat out from a place by muscle power, you shouldn’t be hunting in that place. dp

Dave, I couldn’t agree with you more, if you are not prepared to haul out your meat from the place you are hunting then you probably should not be hunting there.
I’m only 57 but had a botched back operation several years ago. Then in June of 09 I went off a roof at work and got busted up pretty bad. In October of that year I took my deer off the mountain over a mile in the dark trying to find the trail that I knew was there somewhere. I don’t mind telling you it hurt! This year I took my deer out 1 /3 miles in the dark but with a bit of help. It seems like each year I end up trying to get back in further to find the solitude I seek (Vermont is a small state).
The bottom line (for me anyway) seems to be… If there is no element of adventure in the hunt, it’s really not that much worthwile. IMO Not 1/3 miles, I meant 1 1/3 miles.

I have a Rokon. I only use it like you would a horse. I use it to carry in my camp or to cover ground to get within striking distance. I do not ride it in to my stand or ride it into my hunting area. Three or four miles of walking to hunt is not that big a deal for me. Past that and I use it if it is legal. There are not that many places where it is. This year I shot my elk over three miles from my truck. I shot it at dark. It took me over two hours to get back to the truck with a load of meat after it was loaded in the pack. I got the whole thing out before light without the use of my bike.In fact, I never even rode it this year during the hunt. The area where I finally found the elk was so steep that even a horse would be impractical to get in there with. Our hunt was very crowded this year. There were many new hunters because they shortened the rifle deer hunt to five days. You can judge atv riders however you want but I bet very few have ever even heard me on my bike. I understand all the hate for atvs in the mountains because I see the abuse also. But don’t think all riders are the same. They are not. I would agree that four wheelers should be kept on the roads. The big problem is people disobeying the law. Gary