ToddRvs wrote: All in all very disappointed in Howard Hill. now I know why Fred Bear dispised this guy.

Really?!

Talk about not being PC! 😉
I’ve not seen, but heard about it, which is why I’ve not seen it. I read Hunting the Hard Way. He’s a great archer, and I admire him as an archer. BUT, I don’t think much of his hunting ethic, and I don’t buy into the “It was a different time” point of view.

I’ve always admired,… NO, revered Howard Hill shooting technique, but I always believed his Yupikayee hunting films sucked. Stick to his shooting prowess, and do buy into the “different time” point of view, and you will not be disappointed. These “different times” brought so many hateful, racist movies depicting Black, Asian, and American Indian people,among others, being idiots, murderers and thieves, that they make any Howard Hill film look like a harmless Discovery Channel Documentary in comparison.
I wish Art Young’s Alaska Adventure had been filmed 30 years later( I mean with sound and without the Charlie Chaplin frame jumping effect)… It would be traditional Archery’s ultimate masterpiece… in my book of course:)

Same here…read Hunting the Hard Way and was not terribly impressed.

After reading the book, I was telling Pat that Howard reminded me of Hank Azera’s character “Patches O’Huilihan” from the movie Dodgeball.

70-100 yard shots at goats and deer, 60 yard shots at squirrels, bagging 50 squirrels/rabbits in one weekend, etc. I definitely don’t idolize him for his hunting though I did see some of his African safari footage on YouTube (the lion and the elephant stalks) and they were pretty intense.

I became a Howard fan after watching Errol Flynn’s Robin Hood. That is the HH I love.

FYI..I don’t know if you read Fred Bear’s field notes but he took quite a few unethical shots himself. While he did kill quite a few animals, he must have wounded plenty. If it was in bow range – he shot at it.

I have watched the movie, “Tembo” and likewise was not impressed, but did enjoy whatever positive attributes it presented. Howard Hill was one of many bowhunters who made available the opportunity to use our traditonal gear once again and for that we owe a great debt of gratitude.

I maust say that I feel the same way about the film. I have read HtHW and like the info in the book and I shoot the same way as said in the book but I have the DVD of Tembo and don’t think I would watch it again. If you watch when he shoots one of the wild cats you can see that when it moves it has a rope around it’s middle that moves the grass….Not for me and it has taken a bit of the shine of the image I have of Mr.Hill.
I have never read any of Fred Bears books are they any good and which ones?
Thanks for your time.

I’m a Hill fan as well, but have no taste for some of the hunting practices of the days, or some of the videos. Pope and Young, the Thompson brothers… almost everyone from back then indulged in shots that were just too far. And Hollywood, as usual, had to put their two cents in as to what should be in the movies. Besides his elephants, Hill didn’t talk a great deal about the shooting he did in Africa. Several people made comments that Hill considered the shooting for the movie almost as fake as we all do.

Hollywood ruined the actual archery and hunting in Hill’s movies, as they had in many older flicks. The only old Hill videos that I particularly like are the ones where he doesn’t have to fake a hunt, the ones with the simple trick exhibitions.

I have to agree. A different time. And a different mindset by both hunters and the viewing public at large.

Video-wise… HH was a show man.

Comparing Fred Bear videos to Howard Hill’s is like apples and oranges. But if you read some of the early accounts of Fred’s hunting experiences his own long range, questinable ” draw and pray” shots would be frowned upon today as well.

By they were the early pioneers that brought bowhunting to the fore front. Whatever they did. I am just thankful for it.

It is easy to be an armchair quarterback concerning the “Outhouse Channel” shows of today. Because, a lot of what these buffoons show is unacceptable to many of us. But to the wheel & techno-easy at any cost crowd they don’t see it our way either.

Different times and different showman.. I believe because how hunting is more visible today, it is also placed more under the microscope and studied. Ethics is a good thing.

Steve, “The Outhouse Channel” that’s the best description I’ve heard in a long time of the hunting channel. There are fewer & fewer good shows on it all the time. It’s become one big comercial from start to finish.
The only reason I keep it is because on Weds. Bob Munden is on it showing his exibition shooting & he is good. Tracks Across Africa is not too bad. Most of the rest of it is junk.
Frank

Frank.. I agree.. I won’t bash them all. I like “Elk Chronicles” by the RMEF. And also “Eastman’s Hunting / Bowhunting Journal” (although I was sad to see they signed up with the Forrest Gump crowd – Primos). “On Your Own Adventures” seems to be a good show too. It is better than nothing at all. But, real quality is hard to come by.

I remember when there was only the American Sportsman.. and that was a good show.

The “Outhouse Channel” I coined from Dave Peterson. 😆

There was actually a show on Versus last night “Bucks of the Tecomete” or something like that??

Anyways…it featured an outfitter that was owned by a longbow hunter and they showed footage of him getting a nice buck from his stand.

It was actually a really good show. I got all excited just to see a longbow. They didn’t talk to him at all about it though.

I’ll tell you what is disappointing to me. This thread…Van

I’m with you Van. It’s easy to judge sixty years ago with a 2010 mindset. It was a different time but you can’t understand that with your modern fetchin-up. Times were different, people were different, and we didn’t have a nation of know-it-alls with I-Pods, computers, and newborn ethics that we apply to times already passed. Good grief.

Don’t speak ill of the dead. And, I doubt one of you here would have spoken ill of him to his face. He was an actor and showman as well as archer…before 1940. And by the way, Fred and Howard Hill got along fine….don’t know who told you Fred hated him…it was not so.

Thanks George. Glad to see there is at least one old timer around. I watched Tembo at the Strand Theater in Shreveport Louisiana back in the early 50’s with my Dad and Mother. I was quite young but remember it well. HH was there as the curtain was drawn (yes we had curtains back then) before the show. He put on an outstanding demonstration of shooting skill before the movie started.

Hell, I was only about 5 years old and was smart enough to know the difference between a movie and real life. Good grief:!::!:…Van

sorry hill fans, I’ve never liked the man:?

I don’t like to feel as though I have been tricked in someway and that is always the way I feel when I see Howard or even Byron!

No one can argue that times are different, but I still will never understand why bow hunters of yesteryear thought it was a good idea to launch some arrows at 60 plus yards??? Maybe some of you “old timers” could explain!

BTW limblover that is a good comparison, I never thought about that! Dodge, dip, duck, dive, dodge 😆

Chris Shelton wrote: sorry hill fans, I’ve never liked the man:?

I don’t like to feel as though I have been tricked in someway and that is always the way I feel when I see Howard or even Byron!

No one can argue that times are different, but I still will never understand why bow hunters of yesteryear thought it was a good idea to launch some arrows at 60 plus yards??? Maybe some of you “old timers” could explain!

So Chris, is there anyone else on this planet that you don’t like. I’m sure everyone here would be very interested in hearing about it. Oh, and when was the last time you saw Howard Hill? In case you haven’t heard he has been dead for quite a while so I suppose it hasn’t been lately. I believe there are still a few Byron’s alive. Which one are you talking about? Thanks…Van

Wo sorry I have offended you! But I am not sorry for what I said, don’t like Hill. Don’t really care for Byron Ferguson. Both decent shots, both considered “good” hunters to alot of people.

Never saw Howard in person . . . but I don’t really know what that has to do with anything, never saw Hitler either but I am sure I don’t like him.:wink:

If you guys lived in the 1940’s/ 50’s era, then there may be some substance to your hatred of Mr. Hill. You didn’t live then so you can’t possibly know what you would have been like, much less Howard Hill. We have been politically corrected to death by a$$ patting liberals and made to think we are the best that ever was. B.S. You can’t judge an era unless you lived in that era, under the influence of what life was like back then…..the very beginning of modern archery and bowhunting pretty much.

There are very few people who would do those things nowadays since we have the luxury of history to review, and a completely different mindset.

Chris Shelton….Howard died before you were born…so you only go by what you have learned in your short life. If you were a child of the fifties, you would have a different perspective. Also….I met Byron Ferguson, and he is a gentleman’s gentleman. Perhaps you should take time to get to know him as a human being while he is still alive and you still have time to learn some things.

I will never understand how we can judge folks we didn’t know. And the Hitler comment was just stupid; a far cry from one to the other and any reference there was ignorant and not called for. Some of you need to grow up and think.

George D. Stout wrote: I will never understand how we can judge folks we didn’t know. And the Hitler comment was just stupid; a far cry from one to the other and any reference there was ignorant and not called for. Some of you need to grow up and think.

🙄 Only if you take everything literally George, which would be the definition of ignorant. Chris was merely using a very common way of making his point. We can certainly speak our minds and say what we will about those who have passed. Noone’s perfect and as far as I’m concerned, to treat anyone like they were, unfairly puts them on a pedestal they don’t belong on. The fact is, just because you’ve met Byron Ferguson doesn’t give you any insight into the type of person he is. Same could be said for Ted Nugent, etc.

Van, George…. different times. I doubt very many here ever shot a field round or an animal round. Where longer distance shots are the norm. Ooops.. I have to stay within 18.3 yards 😆

Maybe need to lighten up a wee bit George!
Bruce

Threatening to pull this thread…

Byron Ferguson is a very nice guy, but maybe Chris didn’t hit it off with him. All he said was he “didn’t care for them”. Oddly enough, there are people who don’t like guys that publish or write for Traditional Bowhunter. 😯 I guess we’ll never know if Fred liked Howard since we can’t talk to Fred or Howard. That isn’t the subject of the post.

Let’s keep this to the discussion at hand. Some of the scenes in Tembo were staged. Right or wrong, that’s the way they did it back then. Comments on topic are welcome, personal attacks from any side are not.

TBMADMIN wrote: Some of the scenes in Tembo were staged. Right or wrong, that’s the way they did it back then.

Well of course they were staged. It was a movie for crying out loud. That’s not only the way they did it back then, it’s also the way it’s done now in all movies…:P…Van

SteveMcD wrote: Van, George…. different times. I doubt very many here ever shot a field round or an animal round. Where longer distance shots are the norm.

Exactly:wink:…Van

I’m going to cut Howard some slack. For one, camera equipment back then was huge and cumbersome. Getting a real kill shot was nearly impossible. Not like today with hunters wearing their own HD “kill cams” on top of their hats or mounted over their stands. I’d say microchip technology has made us forget how it used to be. So I don’t doubt that Howard could make an honest kill, his camera crew just could not capture it with the equipment they had to work with. So they did the next best thing and staged a replica scene.

All I can say about Byron Ferguson is that if he has been able to make a living off of archery then more power to him. I doubt anyone would come to see me shoot :oops:. Folks come from near and far to see Byron’s shooting.

I have had the privilege of meeting Fred Bear in person. We conversed with him for a little while and I came away with the impression that Fred was a real gentleman. I wish I could have listened to him tell a few of his hunting stories around a camp fire. What a treat that would have been. Always regretted not bringing my Alaskan for him to sign.

Oh well, maybe we will cut his trail in the Happy Hunting Grounds…..

There is certainly one very obvious fact. Without the determination and dedication of men like Howard Hill, Fred Bear, and several others, Glenn St Charles always comes to mind. We would not have the Archery Seasons and privileges in Bowhunting that we enjoy today. I will not judge.. I thank them all.

As for Byron Ferguson, a true gentlemen and an excellent ambassador of Archery.

Period.

Okay, okay. When I say I am not fond of the two gentlemen I mean as showmen, not as people. I don’t judge individuals by their personality unless I really know them, and that still doesn’t warrant me to judge them.

Bottom line is that I was also disappointed with Tembo and the other Hill films I have seen . . . BUT I have also seen some old Fred Bear Films, and Art Young films and although I know they were not as ethical as we are today; those films didn’t feel as fake to me. Thats all.